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Possible New SMF Routes?  
User currently offlineAeroMaxx From United States of America, joined May 2006, 71 posts, RR: 0
Posted (6 years 9 months 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 4799 times:

Since SMF is becoming more popular every year and the recent additions of ExpressJet (not that recent) and AC Jazz to YVR, what are some possible new routes that could be launched from SMF? WN to DEN, HOU, TZ codeshare to HNL? Maybe CO to EWR, US to CLT or PHL, NW to DTW, AA to ORD? Just wondering what is possible from my new home airport!

35 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineJasp25 From United States of America, joined Aug 2007, 615 posts, RR: 1
Reply 1, posted (6 years 9 months 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 4740 times:

I have heard a possible FAT-SMF service by Expressjet.

-jasp



-peace and chicken grease!
User currently offlineCoronado990 From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 1598 posts, RR: 2
Reply 2, posted (6 years 9 months 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 4627 times:

What is the synopsis of your transcon service now? The UA non-stop to IAD, B6 to JFK once a day and the couple of flights to ATL on DL? Hopefully I missed something because I can understand your longing for something more. Having HA is a plus. I really am surprised that CO does not offer a SMF-EWR non-stop. Hopefully they can find room for that one in the future considering the proposed caps.


Uncle SAN at your service!
User currently offlineWhatUsaid From United States of America, joined Feb 2007, 664 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (6 years 9 months 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 4609 times:



Quoting Jasp25 (Reply 1):
I have heard a possible FAT-SMF service by Expressjet.

-jasp

Doesn't fit the XE model. Drive time is less than three hours. I know some that want the route, but it would be marginal at best.


User currently offlineFATFlyer From United States of America, joined May 2001, 5804 posts, RR: 14
Reply 4, posted (6 years 9 months 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 4591 times:



Quoting Jasp25 (Reply 1):
I have heard a possible FAT-SMF service by Expressjet.



Quoting WhatUsaid (Reply 3):
Doesn't fit the XE model. Drive time is less than three hours. I know some that want the route, but it would be marginal at best.

Did you see the newspaper coverage this morning?

The paper discussed Fresno Mayor Alan Autry riding in a Fresno PD helicopter this week to Sacramento since there is no current nonstop flight.

When Autry traveled to Sacramento last week for a news conference with Gov. Schwarzenegger, he was flown on the Fresno Police Department's Skywatch helicopter.

There is no direct commercial service available between Fresno and the state Capitol. City Manager Andy Souza said using the helicopter saved the mayor time and money over a chartered aircraft. It also provided training time for Skywatch pilots, who are members of the Fresno Police Department's air support unit.

"We've done that a couple of times," Souza said. "It's a combination of getting the mayor to Sacramento and getting time in the aircraft for the pilots."

http://www.fresnobee.com/490/story/283797.html



"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness." - Mark Twain
User currently offlineAS739X From United States of America, joined Apr 2003, 6143 posts, RR: 23
Reply 5, posted (6 years 9 months 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 4518 times:



Quoting WhatUsaid (Reply 3):

But both cities have been pushing to connect FAT to The Capitol City. Granted it would be a glorified touch-n-go flight, the push by the government sides involved may actually get this done.

ASSFO



"Some pilots avoid storm cells and some play connect the dots!"
User currently offlineWhatUsaid From United States of America, joined Feb 2007, 664 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (6 years 9 months 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 4504 times:



Quoting AS739X (Reply 5):

When Autry traveled to Sacramento last week for a news conference with Gov. Schwarzenegger, he was flown on the Fresno Police Department's Skywatch helicopter.

Yea, well, we've a TV actor as Mayor who works out of the local Starbucks, so nothing really comes as a surprise. Theatrics may bring the service to Fresno but it won't keep it here.

Seriously, if the flight was a 7am departure, you'd need to be at the airport with boarding pass in hand no later than 6am due to the morning rush at security, which at times can be a hundred or more deep if you don't time it just right. So, after a 50 minute flight, once you're in SMF, add in the ride to the rental center to pick up your car and finally end up in downtown - it's going to be pushing 9 am - say, 8:40 if you cab it into downtown. Essentially, three hours, the same as driving it. I hate driving 99 as much as anyone else, but let's allow XE to make a little money before starting another marginal route.


User currently offlineAS739X From United States of America, joined Apr 2003, 6143 posts, RR: 23
Reply 7, posted (6 years 9 months 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 4413 times:



Quoting WhatUsaid (Reply 6):

Hey, not debating anything you say. Just know for a fact the goverment has been after this for a while now. To me its more of a OO EMB-120 flight. Time will tell if XE will bite!

ASSFO



"Some pilots avoid storm cells and some play connect the dots!"
User currently offlineCoronado990 From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 1598 posts, RR: 2
Reply 8, posted (6 years 9 months 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 4375 times:



Quoting AS739X (Reply 7):
To me its more of a OO EMB-120 flight.

I doubt it. They didn't have wherewith-all to start FAT-SAN and that seems to be one of XE's most successful routes.



Uncle SAN at your service!
User currently offlineAirlineBrat From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 652 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (6 years 9 months 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 4359 times:



Quoting AS739X (Reply 7):
Hey, not debating anything you say. Just know for a fact the goverment has been after this for a while now. To me its more of a OO EMB-120 flight.

I wouldn't just rely on government folks to fill planes. I would also look at connection opportunities to hubs. Example.... the morning UA-Ex ACV-SMF flight and the evening SMF-ACV flight are perfectly timed to connect with flights between SMF and ORD,DEN and IAD. When SFO is a weather/ATC mess, SMF is a good reliever station. As long as the tule fog is not too bad....



I'm leavin on a jet plane. Don't know when I'll be back again....
User currently offlineRW717 From United States of America, joined Sep 2006, 289 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (6 years 9 months 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 4306 times:

I flew UA Express ACV-SMF on 11/30 and it came in empty and went out with 6 pax. How do they make money on this?


Reno Air - The Biggest Little Airline in the World
User currently offlineDesertAir From Mexico, joined Jan 2006, 1462 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (6 years 9 months 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 4239 times:

This discussion brings up the ever present issue of how can California communities be connected in a win-win situation for the flying public and the airlines. Attempting to connect the FAT-SMF dot is a great example. It seems as though a prop would be appropriate flown on a reasonable schedule at a decent fare could work.

User currently offlineAS739X From United States of America, joined Apr 2003, 6143 posts, RR: 23
Reply 12, posted (6 years 9 months 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 4227 times:



Quoting Coronado990 (Reply 8):



Quoting AirlineBrat (Reply 9):

Agreed, with both of you. But the point is that the government is pushing the flight. Thats ALL I am saying. I'm not saying its a good route, I'm not saying it should be started. All I said was that the government in SAC and Fresno have hoped for the service. And I agree with you all that say its an awful route for XE. But as the article said that FATflyer posted, they make a big stink everytime these big-wigs have to go back and forth. And this is by no means the first article that has mention and i think FATflyer can attest to that.

Quoting RW717 (Reply 10):

The point is not the connection though. It the point to point. Maybe you can add a FAT-SMF flight that connects to DEN/ORD, but DEN can be flown non-stop from Fresno making a better connection then going to SMF. And they are not going to deplete the SFO passenger traffic.

ASSFO



"Some pilots avoid storm cells and some play connect the dots!"
User currently offlineAirlineBrat From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 652 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (6 years 9 months 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 4219 times:



Quoting AS739X (Reply 7):
To me its more of a OO EMB-120 flight.



I should have reread your post before I posted. I agree, the EMB-120 is a better aircraft for FAT-SMF.



Quoting WhatUsaid (Reply 6):
Seriously, if the flight was a 7am departure, you'd need to be at the airport with boarding pass in hand no later than 6am due to the morning rush at security, which at times can be a hundred or more deep if you don't time it just right. So, after a 50 minute flight, once you're in SMF, add in the ride to the rental center to pick up your car and finally end up in downtown - it's going to be pushing 9 am - say, 8:40 if you cab it into downtown. Essentially, three hours, the same as driving it. I hate driving 99 as much as anyone else, but let's allow XE to make a little money before starting another marginal route.

Fresno also has another non-driving alternative to Sacramento that we do not have up here in the Boonies, Amtrak's San Joaquin service. With the train, there is no hassle of getting from the airport to downtown Sacto since the station is just a couple of blocks from the Capitol Mall. The train trip takes 3 hour and 20 minutes.

Quoting AeroMaxx (Thread starter):
Since SMF is becoming more popular every year and the recent additions of ExpressJet (not that recent) and AC Jazz to YVR, what are some possible new routes that could be launched from SMF? WN to DEN, HOU, TZ codeshare to HNL? Maybe CO to EWR, US to CLT or PHL, NW to DTW, AA to ORD? Just wondering what is possible from my new home airport!

The two I could see as realistic would be WN to DEN and perhaps CO to EWR using a 73G. How successful is B6's redeye between SMF and JFK?



I'm leavin on a jet plane. Don't know when I'll be back again....
User currently offlineWhatUsaid From United States of America, joined Feb 2007, 664 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (6 years 9 months 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 4205 times:

I've heard mixed comments on the B6 to JFK. B6 cancelled their IAD, didn't they? Even UA pulled there IAD flight once in recent years (it's back now, I believe). While SMF has great service to the midwest, I'd think that there's many who'd rather bypass ORD or MSP to reach the Northeast, espcially at this time of year. Anyone know what the O&D is to BOS and the three NY airports? Common sense tells you, there's a market. Common sense, of course, isn't always found in the airline industry. Virgin keeps mentioning SMF in their list of cities to add - could we see Virgin going against Jetblue to JFK? Now, I could see myself driving up 99 for their 1st class experience to the East Coast.

User currently offlineCozmoose From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 32 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (6 years 9 months 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 4188 times:



Quoting WhatUsaid (Reply 14):
While SMF has great service to the midwest, I'd think that there's many who'd rather bypass ORD or MSP to reach the Northeast, espcially at this time of year.

Great service to the midwest? you can't be serious.

There is no nonstop service to St. Louis (AA hub), Cincinnati (DL hub), Detroit, Memphis (NW hubs), and Cleveland (CO hub).


User currently offlineFATFlyer From United States of America, joined May 2001, 5804 posts, RR: 14
Reply 16, posted (6 years 9 months 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 4131 times:

Actually WhatUSaid hobnobs with those political bigwigs in Sacramento and Fresno and has for years. He probably even has a few private line numbers/emails to bypass their staffs.

WhatUSaid that reminds me, we still need to do lunch whenever you are in town for more than 1 or 2 days.

Quoting AS739X (Reply 12):
But as the article said that FATflyer posted, they make a big stink everytime these big-wigs have to go back and forth. And this is by no means the first article that has mention and i think FATflyer can attest to that.

The mention of FAT-SMF in the media has occurred several times, but having personally done the flights when they used to be offered it is a small market of business/government people.

On the other hand, United has the state air fare contract. On FAT-SMF they charge $175.00 unrestricted one-way and $134.00 one-way advance fare. Not a bad fare for a short-flight if you can collect a few.

To compare, UA's contract for SMF-PSP calls for $124.00 unrestricted one-way and $98.00 advance one-way.



"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness." - Mark Twain
User currently offlineAirlineBrat From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 652 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (6 years 9 months 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 4113 times:



Quoting FATFlyer (Reply 16):
On the other hand, United has the state air fare contract. On FAT-SMF they charge $175.00 unrestricted one-way and $134.00 one-way advance fare. Not a bad fare for a short-flight if you can collect a few.

To compare, UA's contract for SMF-PSP calls for $124.00 unrestricted one-way and $98.00 advance one-way.

I thought the ACV-SMF state airfare contract was $90 each way but the last time I flew down there on state business, ResEx quoted $300 for ACV-SMF-SFO-ACV. It would have been $20 cheaper to fly home on the nonstop but I was able to get home 5 hours quicker via SFO. The evening SMF-ACV flight does not leave Sacto until after 9pm. That makes for a long day if you came down on the 5:30am.



I'm leavin on a jet plane. Don't know when I'll be back again....
User currently offlineFATFlyer From United States of America, joined May 2001, 5804 posts, RR: 14
Reply 18, posted (6 years 9 months 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 4109 times:



Quoting AirlineBrat (Reply 17):
I thought the ACV-SMF state airfare contract was $90 each way but the last time I flew down there on state business, ResEx quoted $300 for ACV-SMF-SFO-ACV.

I don't know what the old rate was, but according to DGS the current contract for SMF-ACV is $205.00 one-way YCAL and $144.00 one-way VCAL.

Quoting AirlineBrat (Reply 17):
The evening SMF-ACV flight does not leave Sacto until after 9pm. That makes for a long day if you came down on the 5:30am.

I hate those late flights from anywhere to home also but they do come in handy when meetings run late. The last southbound Amtrak to Fresno leaves Sacramento at 6:25PM so there isn't much time for a meeting to run late or those after-work "team building" sessions.  Wink



"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness." - Mark Twain
User currently offlineCoronado990 From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 1598 posts, RR: 2
Reply 19, posted (6 years 9 months 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 4022 times:



Quoting FATFlyer (Reply 18):
The last southbound Amtrak to Fresno leaves Sacramento at 6:25PM so there isn't much time for a meeting to run late or those after-work "team building" sessions.

.................. champagne 
I'll drink to that  coffee  Merry Christmas!



Uncle SAN at your service!
User currently offlineFalcon84 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 20, posted (6 years 9 months 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 4020 times:

CO CLE-SMF? Possible, not probable, but it's possible. CO still is to announce between 5 and 8 new routes out of CLE sometime in January, and rumor is there will be more than 1 or 2 Left Coast destinations (PDX and SNA seem to be the favorites for that line of thinking), but who knows? With the congestion in EWR, and the upcoming changes, allegedly, to the NYC ATC mess, CLE could become more a pressure valve for EWR amidst all these changes that are coming.

User currently offlineWhatUsaid From United States of America, joined Feb 2007, 664 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (6 years 9 months 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 3985 times:



Quoting FATFlyer (Reply 16):
Actually WhatUSaid hobnobs with those political bigwigs in Sacramento and Fresno and has for years. He probably even has a few private line numbers/emails to bypass their staffs.

WhatUSaid that reminds me, we still need to do lunch whenever you are in town for more than 1 or 2 days.

Quoting AS739X (Reply 12):
But as the article said that FATflyer posted, they make a big stink everytime these big-wigs have to go back and forth. And this is by no means the first article that has mention and i think FATflyer can attest to that.

The mention of FAT-SMF in the media has occurred several times, but having personally done the flights when they used to be offered it is a small market of business/government people.

FATFlyer, me, in town? How 'bout snacks on XE to SAN next month?

Those old FAT-SMF flights were always a joke. Members of the Assembly, Senate and lobbyists. There were deals going down on those UAX Bandits. I will admit, that the charters to Sacramento Exec are getting tougher to book. Not enough a/c available for last minute trips. Yes, there is (limited) demand, but SMF would do better to connect the dots with anyplace other than Fresno.

I'm all for SMF-BOS, personally. Anything to avoid flying out of SFO.


User currently offlineFATFlyer From United States of America, joined May 2001, 5804 posts, RR: 14
Reply 22, posted (6 years 9 months 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 3901 times:



Quoting WhatUsaid (Reply 21):
FATFlyer, me, in town? How 'bout snacks on XE to SAN next month?

XE to SAN next month? Nope, won't work for me. I won't be on that flight until March at the earliest.

I'm having lunch with our mutual friend BB next week.

Quoting WhatUsaid (Reply 21):
Those old FAT-SMF flights were always a joke. Members of the Assembly, Senate and lobbyists.

And a few of us consultants were on it too.  Wink

Personally I still think XE would do better connecting FAT to RNO.

SMF to OMA or MCI would make more sense for XE, they are both larger markets.



"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness." - Mark Twain
User currently offlineFATFlyer From United States of America, joined May 2001, 5804 posts, RR: 14
Reply 23, posted (6 years 8 months 3 weeks 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 3706 times:

I found this graphic today on the Sac Bee website. Looks like their business predictions for 2008 article on Monday will include a SMF-FAT flight. For 2007 they had predicted the SMF-YVR flight.

http://media.sacbee.com/smedia/2007/...008.xlgraphic.prod_affiliate.4.gif



"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness." - Mark Twain
User currently offlineWhatUsaid From United States of America, joined Feb 2007, 664 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (6 years 8 months 3 weeks 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 3650 times:



Quoting FATFlyer (Reply 23):
I found this graphic today on the Sac Bee website. Looks like their business predictions for 2008 article on Monday will include a SMF-FAT flight. For 2007 they had predicted the SMF-YVR flight.

Ya know, maybe the Sac Bee should be doing predictions for FAT. We need all the help we can get.

My predictions for FAT in 08 are nothing new from UAX (except maybe those 5am RJ
flights will start flying at 4am), nothing new from AA (bye-bye SAAB's I hope), nothing new from QX, nothing new from DL (not after last year's Atlanta tease), nothing new from US, nothing new from MX, nothing new from G4, and XE will drop LGB, ONT, and increase their frequency to SAN so that the schedule finally makes sense for business travel in both directions, and XE will do SMF in response to the pressure from the powers in both cities and by this time next year, FAT-SMF will be history. Hey FATFlyer, whatever happened to that Hawaii service we were to have within a couple years? Oh, yea, it's in SMF!

I have a bad case of SMF envy.


25 AirCop : I presume that you were talking about the evening flight which plane routing is SFO-CEC-ACV-SMF-ACV, so tha chances of it arriving in ACV empty are p
26 LACA773 : How is HA doing on their SMF-HNL flights? Don't they operate up to 2x daily during high season and the holidays? Does anyone know how MX is doing on t
27 AS739X : I'd have to say I think CLE-SNA/PDX would be a front runners as well. Maybe SMF, but it would probably be the late flight to the left and red-eye to
28 WhatUsaid : You're right, HA was doing two a day on peak travel days to HNL. That they could run two 767's is pretty impressive. MX to GDL is doing well from the
29 AeroMaxx : Does someone have info on how well F9's Cabo San Lucas and PVR routes from SMF are doing? I read that they were both being suspended in early 2008. Is
30 AS739X : If I am not mistaken, F9 already announced they will discontinue the service before it even started. Some time in January if I'm not mistaken? ASSFO
31 LACA773 : I'm glad to hear HA is doing well @ SMF (I hope the same holds true for them at SJC.). Leon, Morelia sound like good destinations from a business per
32 SMF711 : US Airways to PHL would be nice, or even NW to Detroit.
33 AS739X : But I think F9 is dropping their Mexico routes from SMF. It appears they can't make it work. Its to bad. Morelia and Leon I think could have some pos
34 WhatUsaid : There are a number of routes which make business sense (from a business travel perspective) from a number of California markets, such as Culican, Her
35 LACA773 : Hey there Happy 2008 ASSFO! Thanks for the information. That's too bad about F9. I was hoping they would have success with these planned routes. LACA
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