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Rumor: UA/AC 787 Order  
User currently offlineTu154 From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 379 posts, RR: 4
Posted (6 years 12 months 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 12208 times:

Waiting on the tarmac this morning while waiting for clearance, purser and I got to talking with the cockpit about rumours
and such around UA.
First rumour i've heard before about TED finally going away in March. TED is DEAD so the slogan went.


Second and more interesting....AC was cancelling their order for 787's and it would be picked up by UAL. This would come just in time for negotiations between UA and ALPA. From what was said, this would mirror negotiations before UA took delevery of the 47-400's and the 777's in that the company said we either get new a/c or give you raises....can't do both.


Again, this is strictly, strictly rumour. Cockpit banter nothing more.

Just wanted to put it out in the forum and get a reliable source or confirmation.


FIRST ON THE ATLANTIC.....FIRST ON THE PACIFIC.....FIRST IN LATIN AMERICA...FIRST 'ROUND THE WORLD.....PAN AM!!
60 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineZvezda From Lithuania, joined Aug 2004, 10511 posts, RR: 64
Reply 1, posted (6 years 12 months 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 12153 times:

AC's 787 delivery positions are worth a lot of money -- probably high eight figures. AC are not going to give that away to UA for free and then take 777s instead.

User currently offlineSh0rtybr0wn From United States of America, joined Aug 2007, 528 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (6 years 12 months 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 12158 times:

Whoa.... AC is cancelling all 37 787-8 orders? Why, will they get A350XWBs instead? Because its late? Or will they just get 2 dozen more 777s ?
Either way its good news for UA. They should order 37 787-9s too.


User currently offlineBoeingFever777 From United States of America, joined Jul 2009, 409 posts, RR: 53
Reply 3, posted (6 years 12 months 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 12089 times:



Quoting Tu154 (Thread starter):
Second and more interesting....AC was canceling their order for 787's and it would be picked up by UAL.

Why would they cancel 787's when they ordered (23) more this year and dropped (2) 777 slots?

Quoting Sh0rtybr0wn (Reply 2):
Whoa.... AC is canceling all 37 787-8 orders? Why, will they get A350XWBs instead? Because its late?

YES EXACTLY! So they can wait til 2015-16 for A350's...

UA is in no no shape to order 787's.



Faire du ciel le plus bel endroit de la terre.
User currently offlineFanfan From United States of America, joined Nov 2007, 54 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (6 years 12 months 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 12063 times:

He did say cockpit banter....

User currently onlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 31387 posts, RR: 85
Reply 5, posted (6 years 12 months 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 12011 times:
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If UA and AC merge, I can maybe see this happening...  Yeah sure

User currently offlineIloveboeing From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 803 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (6 years 12 months 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 11956 times:



Quoting Tu154 (Thread starter):
First rumour i've heard before about TED finally going away in March. TED is DEAD so the slogan went.

Oh I hope so! Ted was a really bad idea. What UA needs to do is upgrade their fleet to include PTVs in all classes and all flights. The industry standard has been raised by the likes of B6, F9, and VX, and UA needs to catch up.

Quoting Stitch (Reply 5):
If UA and AC merge, I can maybe see this happening...

That would be an interesting merger. AC has come a long way from what it was. They are profitable, upgrading their fleet, and have moved to transparent pricing. An AC-UA merger would transform the UA side dramatically. Plus, we all know the UA management doesn't want to be in the airline business anyway. They're looking for a way out. Let the AC people take over. I believe they would do a good job. A Canadian-American super-carrier! That would be cool! A truly "United" Airlines.

Now, if the US government would relax the foreign ownership rules, then this could happen!


User currently offlinePnwtraveler From Canada, joined Jun 2007, 2296 posts, RR: 12
Reply 7, posted (6 years 12 months 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 11826 times:

The reverse would have to be true as well. Canadian law limits foreign ownership of airlines. AC has been very happy with the 777's (they just leased an additional one) I would be very surprised to see them dumping them for A350's. I don't think there is room for both 777's and A350's. AC needs a 767 replacement.

User currently offlinePacifica From Canada, joined May 2006, 149 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (6 years 12 months 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 11669 times:



Quoting Zvezda (Reply 1):
AC's 787 delivery positions are worth a lot of money -- probably high eight figures. AC are not going to give that away to UA for free and then take 777s instead.

On the other hand, it would be quite the smart business move for AC to SELL off its delivery positions for the 787. After all, they are worth a lot of money  Smile
When you think about it, it is actually quite reasonable for them to do this. They already have a fleet of 767's that have been either XM'd already or will be soon (which means to passengers, they are up to date and 'new' aircraft), and for AC they have paid off these planes years ago and have little to no lease costs (just maintenance). The only question here is what would AC do down the road to replace them ten years from now? Maybe they sell their current positions and join the end of the line for the 787?

Just my two cents.


User currently offlineFLYYUL From Italy, joined Jun 2000, 5010 posts, RR: 51
Reply 9, posted (6 years 12 months 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 11632 times:

This is complete, and utter nonsense.

User currently offlineMattRB From Canada, joined Apr 2005, 1624 posts, RR: 9
Reply 10, posted (6 years 12 months 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 11598 times:



Quoting FLYYUL (Reply 9):
This is complete, and utter nonsense.

Agreed.

We're not shelving our 787 order.



Aviation is proof that given, the will, we have the capacity to achieve the impossible.
User currently offlineUnitedTristar From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (6 years 12 months 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 11586 times:



Quoting BoeingFever777 (Reply 3):
UA is in no no shape to order 787's.

 banghead 

Why does everyone say this?

because they are not foolishly spending money like its going out of style?

they are continuing to be conservative about expenditures in this time of volatile oil prices, an example some of the other majors would do good to follow


Quoting MattRB (Reply 10):
We're not shelving our 787 order.

perhaps they are not shelving them...just delaying them...

maybe UA is trading some of its airbus narrow body order's for the earlier 787 slots?

however I agree...this does seem far fetched.

-m



[Edited 2007-12-22 19:17:26]

User currently offlineRoseFlyer From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 9807 posts, RR: 52
Reply 12, posted (6 years 12 months 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 11537 times:



Quoting Sh0rtybr0wn (Reply 2):

Whoa.... AC is cancelling all 37 787-8 orders? Why, will they get A350XWBs instead? Because its late? Or will they just get 2 dozen more 777s ?

I think that it is possible that AC could give up 787 spots to UA. AC has A330s and A340s that are still relatively new. The A330s could stay in the fleet for a while and be supplemented with 777s. UA on the other hand has much older 767s so UA could need the new planes earlier. I think AC might realize that they are replacing adequate planes before they need to be retired, so they might want to hold off on 787s. 787s would allow international expansion, but it's hard to say if AC wants to get rid of the Airbus entirely. AC has many 767s, but those will probably stay for years operating domestic routes.



If you have never designed an airplane part before, let the real designers do the work!
User currently offlineVonRichtofen From Canada, joined Nov 2000, 4638 posts, RR: 36
Reply 13, posted (6 years 12 months 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 11438 times:



Quoting Sh0rtybr0wn (Reply 2):
Whoa.... AC is cancelling all 37 787-8 orders? Why, will they get A350XWBs instead? Because its late? Or will they just get 2 dozen more 777s ?
Either way its good news for UA. They should order 37 787-9s too.

Gullible much? AC in NOT canceling their 787 order.

This is one of the most far fetched rumours I've ever heard. Thread starter: That pilot was full of shit.

Quoting RoseFlyer (Reply 12):
I think that it is possible that AC could give up 787 spots to UA. AC has A330s and A340s that are still relatively new. The A330s could stay in the fleet for a while and be supplemented with 777s. UA on the other hand has much older 767s so UA could need the new planes earlier. I think AC might realize that they are replacing adequate planes before they need to be retired, so they might want to hold off on 787s. 787s would allow international expansion, but it's hard to say if AC wants to get rid of the Airbus entirely. AC has many 767s, but those will probably stay for years operating domestic routes.

AC already got rid of some A340's and is planning to keep the 330's a little longer anyway.



Word
User currently offlineRP TPA From United States of America, joined Oct 1999, 852 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (6 years 12 months 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 11415 times:

This absolutely ridiculous rumor ranks right up there with the other great Air Canada rumors we've heard in the past month:

AC will drop the 777 YVR-SYD and replace it with a 767. (????????)

AC will drop service to Hong Kong. (HUH????????)

Any other good stories out there??


User currently offlineAvek00 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 4416 posts, RR: 19
Reply 15, posted (6 years 12 months 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 11211 times:

Next time rumors come up, spread this one -- should the pilots dare to try to "squeeze every last egg from the golden goose" again, United will find itself back in bankruptcy court within a few years. Only this isn't a rumor.


Live life to the fullest.
User currently offlineSh0rtybr0wn From United States of America, joined Aug 2007, 528 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (6 years 12 months 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 11210 times:



Quoting VonRichtofen (Reply 13):
Gullible much? AC in NOT canceling their 787 order.

It probably will happen. Stranger things have happened than this. These things start out as rumors, but by next week it could be a done deal, with the 787s in UA livery on the UA website. Besides, UA could use the 787s more. Nobody knows for sure, so there's room to speculate.


User currently offlineLaxintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 26131 posts, RR: 50
Reply 17, posted (6 years 12 months 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 11104 times:



Quoting Tu154 (Thread starter):
This would come just in time for negotiations between UA and ALPA.

Contract is not amendable till 2010. As much as ALPA might want early negotiations the company has zero incentive to open the can of worms a single day before its required.



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlineMham001 From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 3719 posts, RR: 3
Reply 18, posted (6 years 12 months 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 11048 times:



Quoting Sh0rtybr0wn (Reply 16):
It probably will happen. Stranger things have happened than this. These things start out as rumors, but by next week it could be a done deal, with the 787s in UA livery on the UA website. Besides, UA could use the 787s more. Nobody knows for sure, so there's room to speculate.

You go from (wild) "speculate" to "probably". jeez.....


User currently offlineSrbmod From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 19, posted (6 years 12 months 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 10660 times:

Rumors made the airline industry (and online aviation forums go round).

But until you see it parked on the ramp or in your paycheck, take for what it is, rumor.

While AC may be in an interesting position in regards to the 787, unless they were going to sell their delivery slots in order to go with the A350, I don't see them doing as such, unless they get in a tight  dollarsign   dollarsign   dollarsign  position. But if they were to get in a tight money situation, they probably wouldn't be the only airline in such a situation.

Considering the recent article (And this thread here: Rumor: United Airlines: No New Planes Till 2017 (by RoseFlyer Dec 4 2007 in Civil Aviation) ) mentioning the fact that UA isn't looking at adding new a/c types for at least another 8-10 years, this rumor probably is as hollow as a chocolate Santa. Throw in the merger rumors and the attempt by investors to force a DL/UA shotgun wedding, and you have a muddled picture. By the 2015-2017 time frame, they could ordered the replacements for their 767/747/777 fleet.

As far as the TED is DEAD rumor, that one has a certain dead horse quality that is going to come true sooner or later.


User currently offlineKlkla From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 946 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (6 years 12 months 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 10548 times:



Quoting Tu154 (Thread starter):
Second and more interesting....AC was cancelling their order for 787's and it would be picked up by UAL

I thought airline employees were regularly tested for drug use! Obviously not, because whoever started this rumor is obviously high.


User currently offlineUadc8contrail From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 1782 posts, RR: 9
Reply 21, posted (6 years 12 months 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 10479 times:

M O N T E B R E W E R ......he will be the link....go to vegas and bet on it


bus driver.......move that bus:)
User currently offlineHiflyer From United States of America, joined Nov 2004, 2177 posts, RR: 3
Reply 22, posted (6 years 12 months 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 10180 times:



Quoting Uadc8contrail (Reply 21):
M O N T E B R E W E R

ahh yes....the chickens come home to roost. Forgot all about him over there....

veeeerrrryyyy interesting idea.


User currently offlineVonRichtofen From Canada, joined Nov 2000, 4638 posts, RR: 36
Reply 23, posted (6 years 12 months 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 10161 times:



Quoting Sh0rtybr0wn (Reply 16):
It probably will happen. Stranger things have happened than this. These things start out as rumors, but by next week it could be a done deal, with the 787s in UA livery on the UA website. Besides, UA could use the 787s more. Nobody knows for sure, so there's room to speculate.

No, it probably won't happen 99.999999% And what makes you think UA needs 787's more than AC?

Quoting Uadc8contrail (Reply 21):
M O N T E B R E W E R ......he will be the link....go to vegas and bet on it

You mean Montie Brewer? What do you mean "he will be the link"? Is this retarded rumour going around the entire UA staff?



Word
User currently offlineUadc8contrail From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 1782 posts, RR: 9
Reply 24, posted (6 years 12 months 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 10072 times:

VON,
my bad...yes it is montie.i was in such a frenzy when i was told this by a CANUCK about the 787...you frenchies will be having a stroke----(did i spell that correct) if it does in fact come true...



bus driver.......move that bus:)
25 Platinumfoota : Ah so many ideas come to mind, but none are going to happen. But I would like to see AC Iceberg Blue color incorporated with UA's colors on an aircraf
26 VonRichtofen : I'm not from Quebec, English is my first language. What's yours? And you say "Frenchies" like it's an insult. Ever been to Quebec?
27 Oroka : Ouch! I think they get much enjoyment harassing anyone in a car without Quebec plates! I think my last trip through Quebec will be the last, I am cut
28 Post contains images UAL777UK : Is this deal going to happen after UA have bought B6 or before?
29 Worldrider : yeh..looks like a stupid insult...and it looks like you are the first having ..little stoke, poor you. may i advise you to have little sleep before w
30 Scbriml : It's extremely unlikely that any airline has the rights to sell production slots to other airlines without the agreement of Airbus or Boeing. Why woul
31 N1120A : Why in the world would they do something like that? The 787 is the absolute perfect sized jet for AC's unique operation.
32 Singel09 : Can you imagine .. a rumour ... 2 dudes in a cockpit starting it of , resulting in this totally useless post ... guess those pilots are laughing their
33 Columba : While I don´t believe in the AC 787 rumor this sounds true. Maybe UA will drop Ted and invest in Jetblue together with LH.
34 Post contains images Rheinbote : That was pretty obvious from the ouset, a French would have known how to spell "von Richthofen" Merry Christmas
35 Post contains images Glideslope : Ich werde wetten, dass er Arthur "ROY" Brown buchstabieren kann.
36 Post contains images KC135TopBoom : That is correct, it makes no sense for AC to sell their B-787 positions. I suppose the new rumored airline could be called "United Canada" (UC)?
37 Post contains images RP TPA : Les Quebecois MIGHT have a problem with that name.
38 Post contains images Bmacleod : AC canceling their 787 slots would be like bring back the 747-400s into their fleet - no possibly of it ever happening.... The 762s are 25 years old,
39 VonRichtofen : When I joined airliners.net, a full seven years ago, spaces were not allowed in user names. Kris
40 BillReid : The rumour isn't complete. AC will switch its purchase slots to UA while LH gives ts B748I slots to AC which in turn will merge with UA and complete p
41 Post contains images AirframeAS : I agree 1,000,000% Ain't gonna happen, so don't bet on it anytime soon. FWIW, I believe UA has stated before that they will NOT take any more new met
42 Boeingluvr : Wow... There's a reason why AC's getting rid fo these relatively new Airbus'. They don't want them. And have you been on AC's older 767's? Do that an
43 Post contains images Czbbflier : Actually, it gets better than that.... Because of the new peace accord concerning Northern Ireland, RyanAir and Aer Lingus will be merging to form Ry
44 Post contains images Bmacleod : WS could have big plans too they could merge with AA (CP was part of Oneworld) and bring back CP ordering 777s, 748s, 787s and take on AC big time.  
45 DL767captain : Ok it might sound crazy, but everyone probably thought it was crazy when NW wanted to order 787s when it looked like they were moving to an all airbus
46 ER757 : No, it will not likely happen. And what stranger thing than this (in the airline industry) has happened? It would have to be pretty far out there to
47 777STL : No, it's nonsense, especially considering AC has been retiring(or plans on soon) retiring some of their older 767s. This rumor isn't plausible at all
48 Sebring : Faulty logic. 1. All but 5 A340s are going now, and the other five have defined departure dates. AC has a bunch of international 767-200ERs with abou
49 Post contains images FighterPilot : Just in time for Canada to merge with the US. Cal
50 KrisYYZ : When is AC's first 787 scheduled to join the fleet? Even the XM'd B767s will be in rough shape by 2015. I was under the impression that AC didn't go
51 Jacobin777 : ...while I give it a low probability at this present moment, Tilton has stated they "like" the B772LR and will "look" at the B748I... "He said he see
52 BoeingFever777 : Both AC website and Boeing stated 2010.
53 Viscount724 : AC's last 5 763s were delivered in 1995 and 1996. The last two aren't yet 12 years old.
54 Dmanmtl : What an asshole comment this is! I thought this was a message board about aircraft and airlines not a forum to toss clearly prejudice, narrow minded
55 ACdreamliner : Interesting idea, American airline, needing saved by its northern cousin. Mind you, this captain who started all this is talking complete trash. Don't
56 BeechNut : Funny you mention this. My wife is a physician. Once on a flight she got the dreaded "is there a doctor on board" PA announcement. An elderly lady ha
57 AirframeAS : Uhhh, isn't the first delivery to ANA in 4Q of 2008?! But at the same time, no mention of the 787.
58 EvilForce : The previous poster was talking about Air Canada's 787 deliveries being 3 years away. AC won't see their deliveries until 2010 sometime. That makes i
59 Post contains images Jacobin777 : ..oh, right...for some reason I thought you meant any plane....good call..
60 AussieItaliano : I agree, and I'd bet money on it. Yeah, aside from what we've already heard, WN is ordering 380's to fly from DFW to DAL.
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