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Cyprus Airways Fleet  
User currently offlineSXDFC From United States of America, joined Dec 2007, 2356 posts, RR: 21
Posted (6 years 9 months 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 4653 times:

Hey Guys:

With Cyprus Airways flying around some of the oldest A320's around, Id like to know if they have any plans to replace them with a new a/c type or newer A320-232 models? I understand they got new A330's and A319s a few years back but I am sure its time for the A320s to start to say their good byes. I would love your input on this- maybe they will order the 737NG?


ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
24 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineWesternA318 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 5684 posts, RR: 24
Reply 1, posted (6 years 9 months 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 4631 times:

I'm thinking they'll just replace them with more A320's or a mix of A319/A320/A321 depending on what management feels at the time? Speaking of which, who owns Cyprus Airways?


Check out my blog at fl310travel.blogspot.com!
User currently offlineSpetouss From Cyprus, joined Jun 2005, 71 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (6 years 9 months 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 4563 times:



Quoting WesternA318 (Reply 1):
Speaking of which, who owns Cyprus Airways?

Cyprus Airways is a public company but the majority of the stakes belong to the government of the Republic of Cyprus.


User currently offlineEgmcman From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2005, 898 posts, RR: 8
Reply 3, posted (6 years 9 months 3 days ago) and read 4521 times:



Quoting SXDFC (Thread starter):
Hey Guys:

With Cyprus Airways flying around some of the oldest A320's around, Id like to know if they have any plans to replace them with a new a/c type or newer A320-232 models? I understand they got new A330's and A319s a few years back but I am sure its time for the A320s to start to say their good byes. I would love your input on this- maybe they will order the 737NG?

I beleive they have been loosing money so replacing aircraft is not a priority. Eurocypria was owned by CY they operate 738's.


User currently offlineHumberside From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2005, 4920 posts, RR: 4
Reply 4, posted (6 years 9 months 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 4444 times:



Quoting Egmcman (Reply 3):
Eurocypria was owned by CY they operate 738's.

Didnt the ownership of ECA and CY get separated?



Visit the Air Humberside Website and Forum
User currently offlineCYatUK From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2006, 810 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (6 years 9 months 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 4398 times:



Quoting Humberside (Reply 4):
Didnt the ownership of ECA and CY get separated?

Correct.

To clear things up:

In the 1990ies, CY operated a fleet of 8 A320 and 4 A310. 3 of their A320s were leased to Eurocypria (ECA) which at the time was a 100% subsidiary of CY.

CY is owned 69% by Republic of Cyprus.

In 2001-2002 CY sold their A310s and purchased 2 A319 and leased 2 A330.

At the same time, ECA leased 4 B737-800 and returned the 3 A320s to CY. The reason for this was purely political and (as proved later by the government's auditor general) should not have been taken (i.e. both airlines should continue with a full Airbus fleet).

Last year due to CYs ongoing financial problems and the EU rules prohibiting any aid by the Government, CY sold ECA back to the government for CYP £13m ($28m)

They now operate as two separate companies but continue to cooperate closely.

No fleet renewal plans have been made (or at least no plans have been announced) but given Cyprus's membership in the EU from 2004 and onwards I would not expect any orders for Boeing.



CY@Uk
User currently offlineElVen From Greece, joined Apr 2006, 33 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (6 years 9 months 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 4271 times:

The fact that Cyprus is a full member of the European Union has nothing to do with what type of airplanes they order. May I remind you that Air France is one of the largest Boeing customers (777 Program) and France is not only a key EU member but also the home of Airbus.
Regarding CY fleet renewal, as far as i know they will start replacing older A320 with new leased ones. They are also planning to add another 2 A332.


User currently offlineCYatUK From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2006, 810 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (6 years 9 months 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 4237 times:



Quoting ElVen (Reply 6):
The fact that Cyprus is a full member of the European Union has nothing to do with what type of airplanes they order.

Unfortunately, based on recent past I cannot agree with you. Due to the nature of this forum I will not go into details about the renewal of Eurocypria A320 fleet with B737s but I can tell you it was a heavily politically influenced decision.

Quoting ElVen (Reply 6):
May I remind you that Air France is one of the largest Boeing customers (777 Program) and France is not only a key EU member but also the home of Airbus.

Obviously by not living in Cyprus you do not know the way decisions are taken. CY is owned 69% by the Government. All major decisions are made by the relevant ministry and the CY board are there just to agree and implement them. Do not forget that all the CY board members are assigned by the Government every 4 years and is up to the Government to replace them when they do not agree with the proposed decisions.

CY have been victims of politics for many years now and in case the Government does not sell off their stake in the company, this will continue to hunt the company.

I do not exclude a Boeing order in the future but with the current state of politics this is highly unlikely.



CY@Uk
User currently offlineElVen From Greece, joined Apr 2006, 33 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (6 years 9 months 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 4147 times:



Quoting CYatUK (Reply 7):
Obviously by not living in Cyprus you do not know the way decisions are taken. CY is owned 69% by the Government. All major decisions are made by the relevant ministry and the CY board are there just to agree and implement them.

I work and live in Cyprus half of every year in a very closely related business to the activities of CY. So i believe that i do qualify to have an opinion. CY operated an all Airbus fleet well before the discussions to join EU even commenced, correct me if wrong but i believe that they were one of the launcing airlines for A310.
Fleet selection can be politically influeced but this is not the issue at hand. Type comonality, economies of scale and improved airline efficiency are the main drivers for any renewal attempt.
One question, what is the status of the two A320 that belonged to CY and use to be operated by Hellas Jet out of Athens?


User currently offlineSXDFC From United States of America, joined Dec 2007, 2356 posts, RR: 21
Reply 9, posted (6 years 9 months 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 4124 times:

Elven:

When will they get the new A320s? any regi's and dates-

Since you also seem to have "connections" at Cyprus: Have they even looked at the 73NG ? since Eurocypria operates them.



ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
User currently offlineAF022 From France, joined Dec 2003, 2162 posts, RR: 1
Reply 10, posted (6 years 9 months 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 4055 times:

The press for CY a year or so ago was awful. Are they doing any better?

LHR seems to be a big deal for them - two daily A330s must generate a lot of traffic. But they cut frequencies in winter. Is this because they don't have as many slots in winter or is it because traffic dries up.

I was always surprised they didn't do more connectivity - they have such a great geographic location for places such as BEY, DAM and AMM.


User currently offlineBBADXB From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (6 years 9 months 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 3959 times:

I would really love to see CY expand and in my opinion, there are plenty of opportunities to do so. The location of CY's base makes LCA as an ideal hub to connect between TLV, CAI, BEY, AMM, DAM, and the Gulf to many European markets, and vice-versa. I do not know how CY is doing financially, but once they're in a healthy state, they should explore the possibility of expanding into many so far untapped markets (such as secondary airports in the UK, Germany, France, Italy, the Nordic region, Spain, and central Europe), and increase frequencies. Maybe a few A319s and A320s (or 737NGs) would make for a better fleet expansion proposition than having more wide-bodied A330s (or 787s). Moreover, for me, Cyprus is a great holiday destination.

User currently offlineOrion737 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (6 years 9 months 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 3854 times:

I think a jet smaller than the 319 would be helpful for increasing regional frequencies and services. RJs.

User currently offlineOA260 From Ireland, joined Nov 2006, 27005 posts, RR: 57
Reply 13, posted (6 years 9 months 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 3835 times:



Quoting CYatUK (Reply 7):
I do not exclude a Boeing order in the future but with the current state of politics this is highly unlikely.

Totally agree. Even though CY has had a history of Airbus fleet , any future orders will go to Airbus. I have to say Im happy about that as Airbus are amazing A/C and serve carriers like CY well. I just think its naive to think that certain pressures arnt put on airlines by the EU !!! Look at the reaction LOT and Poland got when they ordered non Airbus A/C !!!!

Maybe if OA agree to do a fleet renewal then the EU will go easy on them repaying the debt  duck 

Quoting ElVen (Reply 8):
One question, what is the status of the two A320 that belonged to CY and use to be operated by Hellas Jet out of Athens?


Still flying on behalf of OA on a few routes. This morning when I was at ATH I saw it operating a charter to Barcelona for Go Go Holidays .


User currently offlineOrion737 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (6 years 9 months 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 3827 times:

Some tregional routes could be expanded and increased with smaller craft than the 319.

User currently offlineCYatUK From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2006, 810 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (6 years 9 months 21 hours ago) and read 3695 times:



Quoting ElVen (Reply 8):
CY operated an all Airbus fleet well before the discussions to join EU even commenced, correct me if wrong but i believe that they were one of the launcing airlines for A310.

CY was one of the launching airlines for the A320, purchasing 8 of them (3 subleased to ECA).

Quoting SXDFC (Reply 9):
One question, what is the status of the two A320 that belonged to CY and use to be operated by Hellas Jet out of Athens?

None of these aircraft belonged to CY. All of them were leased. (I can't even imagine the reaction of CY Pilots if CY tried to move aircraft to Hellas Jet). CY Pilots have staged a number of strikes in the past trying to force CY to sell Hellas Jet (this eventually happened in 2004-5) and also merge with ECA. The latter never happened. In fact ECA was sold to the Cypriot Goverment for £13.4m and is now fully owned by the Cypriot Government (as opposed to CY where the government's stake is 69%)

Quoting ElVen (Reply 8):
Fleet selection can be politically influeced but this is not the issue at hand. Type comonality, economies of scale and improved airline efficiency are the main drivers for any renewal attempt

With the CY Board of Directors being put at their positions by the Government every 5 years, all decisions are heavily political. As you mention they do take into account type commonality etc however the Ministry of Trasport is always behind every major decision. ECAs B737 were purchased in a period when a plan for reunification of Cyprus was created and this decision was critisised heavily by many newspapers for being based on political rather than other criteria (ECA is possibly the only company worldwide operating A320s and chaning to a B737 fleet).



CY@Uk
User currently offlineCYatUK From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2006, 810 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (6 years 9 months 21 hours ago) and read 3684 times:



Quoting BBADXB (Reply 11):
I would really love to see CY expand and in my opinion, there are plenty of opportunities to do so. The location of CY's base makes LCA as an ideal hub to connect between TLV, CAI, BEY, AMM, DAM, and the Gulf to many European markets, and vice-versa. I do not know how CY is doing financially, but once they're in a healthy state, they should explore the possibility of expanding into many so far untapped markets (such as secondary airports in the UK, Germany, France, Italy, the Nordic region, Spain, and central Europe), and increase frequencies. Maybe a few A319s and A320s (or 737NGs) would make for a better fleet expansion proposition than having more wide-bodied A330s (or 787s). Moreover, for me, Cyprus is a great holiday destination.

CYs connection possibilities are limited by the size of their fleet. At the moment most of the arrivals from Middle East take place early in the morning (before 08:00) so that connecting passengers may continue onto flights to Europe (AMS, ATH, FRA, ZRH, FCO, MAN etc) which depart between 08:30 and 11:00. With the exception of more ATH flights and the daily flight to LHR at 17:45, any arriving passengers from regional airport would have to wait for a day to continue their journeys to other European destinations.

The A330s were purchased mainly for the LHR and CDG services which are usually very busy. Together with ATH, LHR is one of CYs "cashcows" and more A330s could possibly be utilised on the route during peak times.

A330s are also used on the ATH service which is also extremely popular. At the moment there are 10-11 daily flights from LCA to ATH (CY, Aegean and OA) and at some times CY have to use the A330s to be able to cope with demand.



CY@Uk
User currently offlineOrion737 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 17, posted (6 years 9 months 18 hours ago) and read 3627 times:

Do OA use 340s to ATH from LCA in that case? They only have the much smaller 737 since they dumped the 300-600R

User currently offlineOA260 From Ireland, joined Nov 2006, 27005 posts, RR: 57
Reply 18, posted (6 years 9 months 17 hours ago) and read 3604 times:



Quoting Orion737 (Reply 17):
Do OA use 340s to ATH from LCA in that case? They only have the much smaller 737 since they dumped the 300-600R

OA only use A300-600 on ATH-LCA at Xmas and Easter and other busy periods. All other times they use 737's. On CY flights OA codeshare.

ATH LCA 0115 0250 OA 333 C4 J2 D4 Y7 M7 L7 N7 S7 K7 Q7#733
ATH LCA 0650 0825 OA 329 C4 J2 D4 Y7 M7 L7 N7 S7 K7 Q7#733
ATH LCA 1215 1350 @OA8313 C4 D4 Y4 M4 L4 K4 N4 Q4 BC 320
ATH LCA 1845 2020 @OA 331 C4 J2 D4 Y7 M7 L7 N7 S7 K7 Q7#320
ATH LCA 2135 2310 @OA8349 C4 D4 Y4 M4 L4 K4 N4 Q4 B0 320


@ Operated by CY

---------------------------------------------------------------

Tomorrow for instance there is a AB6 on the evening flight::

ATH LCA 1905 2040 OA 331 J2 C4 D7 Y7 M7 L7 N7 S7 K7 Q7#AB6


User currently offlineOrion737 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 19, posted (6 years 9 months 17 hours ago) and read 3599 times:

Do they, OA have AB^s , I thought they had gone.

User currently offlineOceansWorld From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 20, posted (6 years 9 months 17 hours ago) and read 3601 times:



Quoting Orion737 (Reply 17):
They only have the much smaller 737 since they dumped the 300-600R

There's still one in the fleet.


View Large View Medium
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Photo © Zaninger Jonathan



User currently offlineOrion737 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 21, posted (6 years 9 months 17 hours ago) and read 3587 times:

Great to see that sole A300 operational. guess it is in much need for high capacity shorter routes.

User currently offlineOA260 From Ireland, joined Nov 2006, 27005 posts, RR: 57
Reply 22, posted (6 years 9 months 17 hours ago) and read 3564 times:



Quoting Orion737 (Reply 21):
Great to see that sole A300 operational. guess it is in much need for high capacity shorter routes.

Yes I love them and they have served OA so well over the years. I flew on all of them since I was a kid. Lovely A/C.


User currently offlineCYatUK From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2006, 810 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (6 years 8 months 4 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 3469 times:



Quoting AF022 (Reply 10):
The press for CY a year or so ago was awful. Are they doing any better?

They are expected to report a small loss this year and be profitable from next year. However, todays newspaper reported that Ground Handling staff are opposing the new CY/Swissport alliance that will bid for 1 of the 2 Ground Handling licences at new LCA and PFO terminals. Although there will be no job cuts or salary reductions when the new partnership is created, unions oppose the deal because current staff will not be CY staff any more (CY=semi governmental organisation = safe job for life) but belong to the new private company.

Further talks are expected to commence on 08/01/08.



CY@Uk
User currently offlineOA260 From Ireland, joined Nov 2006, 27005 posts, RR: 57
Reply 24, posted (6 years 8 months 4 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 3456 times:



Quoting CYatUK (Reply 23):
They are expected to report a small loss this year and be profitable from next year.

Fingers crossed for CY . Glad they havnt made the same mistakes as we have with OA. The Cypriots tend to be more business focused historically than the Greeks in Greece. They are more Anglos when it comes to business.


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