A330_DTW From United States of America, joined Sep 2000, 371 posts, RR: 0 Posted (12 years 10 months 2 weeks 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 1631 times:
I found this online today. It seems to me that the Wings Alliance with AZ/CO/KL and NW will come to fruition after all!
KLM, Alitalia Talk on Resuming Alliance, People Say
Rome, Jan. 25 (Bloomberg) -- KLM Royal Dutch Airlines NV may resume a partnership with Alitalia SpA, four months after British Airways Plc dropped talks to buy the Dutch company, people familiar with the situation said.
Executives from KLM, Europe's fourth-largest carrier, and No. 6 Alitalia met earlier this month to discuss reviving their collaboration, the people said. KLM dropped its partnership with Alitalia nine months ago. The companies had an alliance which stopped just short of a merger and under which they aimed to share profit eventually.
The airlines, which combined would have 17 percent of the market in Europe, second only to BA's 21 percent, are seeking partners as competition increases. Their efforts to combine with bigger carriers have failed since their own alliance collapsed.
Their alliance was ``mutually convenient for both airlines and was a good solution'' to their requirements, said Gerald Khoo, an analyst at BNP Paribas. ``It was ambitious but not so ambitious it was too difficult to pull off'' with regulators.
KLM's efforts to merge with BA collapsed in September, while Alitalia has failed in talks to form a partnership with Air France or SAir's Swissair. Neither KLM nor Alitalia can survive alone as Europe's airline industry consolidates, analysts said.
Few alternatives matched the potential of the KLM-Alitalia alliance in which the KLM offered Alitalia the long-haul network it lacks while the Italian carrier gave KLM access to a big domestic market.
The European Union's approval of a new plan for Alitalia's Milan Malpensa hub could clear the way for the revival. KLM in April blamed problems with Malpensa and the slow pace of the Italian carrier's share sale for the split.
The EU last month approved Italy's fifth change to flight allocations between Milan's Malpensa and Linate airports, concluding a 15-month battle that had embroiled the government, the EU and a dozen European airlines. The carriers had complained previous allocation plans favored Alitalia.
Alitalia spokesman Enrico Lepri said ``alleged'' talks with KLM as well as an executive meeting are ``completely groundless'' as was a report in Italian daily newspaper Il Sole/24 Ore that Alitalia Chief Executive Domenico Cempella would resign at a January board meeting to facilitate the revival.
``We still see consolidation in Europe, operationally it has always made sense'' said KLM spokeswoman Laura Frost, who declined to comment on whether the officials have met and are weighing a renewed alliance.
Lack of Choices
The lack of alternative solutions to compete with BA, Deutsche Lufthansa AG and Air France, which are all building global alliances, could help bring KLM and Alitalia back together. Their breakup prompted Alitalia to sue KLM for damages and the Dutch carrier to countersue. The carriers are still in litigation.
When asked whether Alitalia is interested in resuming ties with KLM, Alitalia President Fausto Cereti said in an interview:
``If I want to marry a girl and she says `no,' I would be a fool to say she was worthless. I am still looking at the girl.'' Cereti declined to be more specific.
Even though KLM didn't blame Alitalia's management for last year's breakup, a new chief executive at the airline might make it easier for the Italian government, which owns 53 percent of the carrier, to resume talks, analysts said.
Italian daily La Repubblica reported in December that Cempella had lost the support of the government because of his criticism of the handling of the Malpensa issue.
Jan/25/2001 6:39 ET
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A330_DTW From United States of America, joined Sep 2000, 371 posts, RR: 0 Reply 4, posted (12 years 10 months 2 weeks 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 1386 times:
If you remember correctly, the first alliance was the NW/KL alliance back in the late 80s. In 1993 the two were granted anti-trust immunity and have since basically operated as one carrier.
If anyone is having a slow start out of the blocks, it certainly is not KL/NW. Other alliances may have more carriers (too many cooks spoil the broth) but Wings is the most aligned and most integrated.
Johnnybgoode From Germany, joined Jan 2001, 2187 posts, RR: 7 Reply 6, posted (12 years 10 months 2 weeks 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 1338 times:
come on, wings the most integrated and aligend alliance?????
i doesn´t even exist already!!!!!
i agree that northwest and klm might have the closest relationship but there are others which come pretty close, BA and qantas, SR and sabena, Lufthansa and SAS, United.
If only pure sweetness was offered, why's this bitter taste left in my mouth.
F.pier From Italy, joined Aug 2000, 1517 posts, RR: 10 Reply 9, posted (12 years 10 months 2 weeks 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 1287 times:
I think that Alitalia KLM partnership is the best at the moment for both the airlines.
I'm sure this time it will be a success!!!
(I only hope Alitalia will renew her fleet because she needs it).
Johnnybgoode From Germany, joined Jan 2001, 2187 posts, RR: 7 Reply 10, posted (12 years 10 months 2 weeks 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 1270 times:
you´re right, they´re not operating out of the same terminal in dtw, and kl/nw do, but it´s not UA hub, it´s one of the major hubs of kl/nw.
there are many airports from whcih LH and UA operate out of the same terminals so that´s an exception. and neither do KL and NW operate everywhere from the same terminals.
i´m sure you´re right about the endorsements, but it´s a different picture over here in germany, because i´m flying a lot on lufthansa and its star partners and i never had any problems with my tickets on other airlines.
i´m not sure why these differences are regarding the LH/UA thing in DTW and i don´t think that it applies to everywhere in the states.
and i don´t think that there are no flaws regarding KL/NW. as i said, it´s the longest major relationship between two major carriers and it certainly may be one of the most integrated, but there will be always things to complain about, with KL/NW and of course LH/UA.
If only pure sweetness was offered, why's this bitter taste left in my mouth.
Cba From United States of America, joined Jul 2000, 4530 posts, RR: 3 Reply 12, posted (12 years 10 months 2 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 1245 times:
KLM and NWA have probably the best alliance of all. CO and NWA are good. CO has also always had a little codeshare going with Alitalia. Now all they need to go is get JAL to join up, then they will have 2 strong US airlines, 2 strong European airlines, and 1 strong Asian Airline.
Phileo From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 15, posted (12 years 10 months 2 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 1239 times:
I wasn't sure about JAL relationship with NWA/KLM but something for sure, MAS is very close with both of them. KLM not only codesharing all it's AMS--KUL flight with MAS, but right now all MAS Australia flights carried KLM code as well. Beside that, I think NWA also did the same thing as well with MAS for the flight in and out of US. Anyway, I just wish MAS could be the official Wings partners as soon as possible.
Trvlr From United States of America, joined Feb 2000, 4430 posts, RR: 22 Reply 16, posted (12 years 10 months 2 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 1229 times:
MAS would be a good Southeast Asian partner for Wings, but you still have got Korea/Japan to be worried about. JAL will stick to its close Oneworld affiliations. they have very extensive partnerships with AA, BA, SR (which is Oneworld-leaning), and CX. Maybe Wings should snag Asiana before its too late!!
OO-VEG From Netherlands, joined Oct 2000, 1081 posts, RR: 1 Reply 17, posted (12 years 10 months 2 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 1219 times:
MAS I can understand (good transfer station) but Asiana? Nah, that is nothing. Japan and Korea are nice markets but let's not forget
a. NW has a strong hub in Tokio already.
b. Japan and Korea are not the largest markets in Asia
It would be better to go for a Chinese partner. At this moment the chinese aviation market is booming business, air travel is growing like never before and as far as I know those Chinese companies do not have foreign partners. So every company is available there. Therefore I would definately go for China Southern or China Eastern Airlines, then you have a market of 1 billion people to focus on.
But nevertheless, MAS is also situated very nicely in the center of Southern Asia. It would be a nice transfer station for smaller destinations within Asia.
Furthermore should there be a South American partner (you all know why..).
Trvlr From United States of America, joined Feb 2000, 4430 posts, RR: 22 Reply 18, posted (12 years 10 months 2 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 1213 times:
I guess you are right. Plus you've got JAS in the mix which is closely partnered with NW. I still think Asiana needs to make an alliance decision though.
The CAAC, which in some way controls all of the PRC's airlines, has not decided to push any airlines into an alliance yet. If that happened though, I think the arrangement would look like this:
Air China: Wings 1st choice, Star a distant 2nd.
China Eastern: Oneworld
China Southern: Skyteam
South America: With Varig gone and LAN & Aerolineas Argentinas in or leaning towards Oneworld, that doesn't leave much choice. TAM would obviously be the most likely candidate for either Skyteam or Wings, but I don't think any have shown an interest yet. Perhaps VASP as well, but there would need to be much expansion/restructuring.
AZJUBILEE From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 3629 posts, RR: 29 Reply 19, posted (12 years 10 months 2 weeks 1 day ago) and read 1182 times:
There is no wings alliance... there was never a formal announcement about this ever! It was mere speculation that, WINGS would be the brand name of the most intergrated alliance in the world. That would be KL/NW. No other alliance can top the intergration that NW and KLM have to offer. Add CO, AZ, JAS, Kenya, MAS, Jet Airways and all theother ones, when a formal alliance brand is announced, it will be awesome! Don't forget NW and Air CHina have had code sharing for a long time now. NW is the first carrier to codeshare within the Chinese domestic market.
F.pier From Italy, joined Aug 2000, 1517 posts, RR: 10 Reply 21, posted (12 years 10 months 1 week 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 1137 times:
Yesterday, Domenico Cempella, chief of Alitalia resigned and there are rumors (strong rumors) about a possible re-pertnership between KLM and Alitalia. Also KLM which until yesterday always said there there were no possibilities to re-merge with AZ, now says that they can re-start talks.
AZJUBILEE From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 3629 posts, RR: 29 Reply 25, posted (12 years 10 months 1 week 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 1087 times:
Yes, NW has the alliance with JAl Cargo. JAl also has the alliance with AA. NW can offer more in Asia than AA can by a thousand miles. With this thought, a NW/JAL alliance could compete more effectively with a huge increase in competition if an open skies agreement ever occurs.