ExpressJet_ERJ From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 827 posts, RR: 4 Posted (5 years 4 months 3 weeks 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 6641 times:
Ok I dont want to start this into the new "DC9 will never die" thread. But I want to work at NWA in the near future, but what is bothering me is what is the plan for aircraft. Is there any other planes on order other than the 787s? All 330s have been delivered I read. And I know that the DC9 fleet is now under 100 ships. Any info would be greatly appreciated. Take care!
Burnsie28 From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 7411 posts, RR: 9 Reply 1, posted (5 years 4 months 3 weeks 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 6414 times:
The DC-9 replacement is expected to be announced this year... that is, if they don't merge with Delta here shortly. Then it will be the 737 series probably.
"Some People Just Know How To Fly"- Best slogan ever, RIP NW 1926-2009
PSU.DTW.SCE From United States of America, joined Jan 2002, 6867 posts, RR: 29 Reply 2, posted (5 years 4 months 3 weeks 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 6356 times:
Here is the latest & greatest (I apologize if my numbers are off by a few)
Saab 340 B+ (34 pax) - 49 operated by Mesaba
CRJ-200 (50 pax) - 141 124 operated by Pinnacle, 17 operated by Mesaba (2 were delivered new to Mesaba, 15 are coming over from Pinnacle in early '08)
CRJ-900 (76 pax)- 36 total (11 currently delivered, 25 on order) operated by Mesaba in 2-class 76 seat configuration
EMB-175 (76 pax)- 36 total (7 currently delivered, 29 on order) operated by Compass in 2-class 76 seat configuration
DC-9-30 (100 pax) - 57 total
DC-9-40 (110 pax) - 12 total
DC-9-50 (125 pax) - 34 total
A319 (124 pax) - 57 in service, 5 on order
A320 (150 pax) - 73 in service, 2 on order
757-200 (160-184 pax) - 55 total (7 currently are in 160 seat Trans-Atlantic configuration, 5 are in Pacific WBC configuration for NRT-intra Asia flying)
757-300 (224 pax) - 16 total
A330-200 (243 pax) - 11 total
A330-300 (298 pax) - 21 total
747-400 (403 pax) - 16 total
787-8 (~220 pax) - 18 on order
Summary:
Regional:
The Saab's, delivered new in 1996-1998 are on lease through 2011-2013, and will remain for the time with no real suitable replacement for the mission other than perhaps the Q200. They will all be painted into the new livery in 2008 as well as receiving new seats & deep cleaning.
CRJ-200's are status quo, other than Mesaba getting 15 from Pinnacle in early '08, based out of MSP (IMHO - depending on the cost of fuel, how the Pinnacle pilot contract negotiations escalate, and short term traffic projections 1-2 dozen could be parked/lease terminations sometime in '08-'09)
CRJ-900 fleet is building up with most deliveries in '08 to be based out of DTW. They will eventually make it down to MEM later in the year
EMB-175 fleet is also building up, with most deliveries in '08 based out of MSP. DTW & MEM will see their first 175 flying starting in early Jan. '08. (finally getting the CRJ off of BOS-MEM)
Narrowbody:
The DC-9 fleet will continue to be NW's variable capacity which they can scale back or increase based on demand. A few more frames will be parked in 2008 but that number will depend on multiple factors (demand, fuel, heavy maintenance). Some DC-9 flying will be replaced by CRJ-900's & EMB-175's as is currently starting at many of the smaller outstations (like MBS, OMA, DSM) and in other instances it is upgauging CRJ-200 flying. Rumors are out there regarding a potential order for EMB-190/195's as a 100 seat replacement for the -30's & -40's, but until the official press release comes out, its all speculation. Until that time also, the DC-9's will continue to be the trusted workhorse that they have been for decades. DC-9-50 flying has actually increased during 2007 since NW sold a number of A319's to foreign airlines to cover shorter routes that require a 125 seat aircraft. Despite the cost of fuel, the DC-9's still remain cost-competitive on shorter stage flights.
A number of A319/A320 aircraft (about 20) has leases rejected during bankruptcy or were sold over the past 2 years. Despite that there are handful still on a continually deffered order. (IMHO those aircraft may never be delivered as NW has zero need at this point for additional 125-150 seat aircraft. Perhaps when they finally retire the -50's they may pick up a few more A319's, but it very possible that NW will not take anymore narrowbody Airbuses until the next generation aircraft is on the market)
There are 5 sub-types of 757's: 5500 domestic, 5600 domestic, 5600 Pacific, 5600 Atlantic, 5800 757-300.
10 of the 5600's have winglets (which includes the 7 configured for TATL flying, and the remaining 3 may be converted depending on Summer 2008 TATL flying) and all 5600 series are supposed to get winglets at some point in time. The 5500 series have the shoddiest interiors of any aircraft in the NW fleet and the rumor keeps coming up that they may be refurbed in the near future - but nothing definete at this point.
Widebodies:
The last A330 was delivered around the end of October bringing the fleet up to a total of 32.
The future of the 744 is somewhat uncertain in NW's fleet, depending on the 787. The 18 787's currently on order will primarily be used to launch new routes, but depending on the amount that "overflies" NRT the role of the 744 may be diminshed. It has been mentioned a some portion, or eventually all of the 744 fleet could be converted to all cargo to replace the 742F's. Additionally there are 50 options for more 787 in the future.
EvilForce From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 3, posted (5 years 4 months 3 weeks 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 6352 times:
Quoting Burnsie28 (Reply 1): The DC-9 replacement is expected to be announced this year... that is, if they don't merge with Delta here shortly. Then it will be the 737 series probably.
Hmmm, that's the first I've heard of this. The pilots are expecting Airbus 319/320 orders along with either an Embraer 190/195 or Bombardier C series launch order. Not 737.
NwAflyer07 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 4, posted (5 years 4 months 3 weeks 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 6219 times:
Quoting EvilForce (Reply 3): Hmmm, that's the first I've heard of this. The pilots are expecting Airbus 319/320 orders along with either an Embraer 190/195 or Bombardier C series launch order. Not 737.
Thats because most pilots aren't concerned about the Delta merger. (talked to a few myself) The 737 to delta is like the DC-9 to NW. Since 737s are newer, more efficient aircraft, they will immediately phase out the DC-9s. If NW remains its own, individual airline then perhaps the 190/.195s and C series will be ordered.
I'm half looking forward to and half dreading the proposed "big announcement" from Delta to take place on January 7th.
Bobnwa From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 5975 posts, RR: 9 Reply 5, posted (5 years 4 months 3 weeks 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 6168 times:
Quoting NwAflyer07 (Reply 4): I'm half looking forward to and half dreading the proposed "big announcement" from Delta to take place on January 7th.
When did DL announce they would have a "big announcement" on Jan 7?
PSU.DTW.SCE From United States of America, joined Jan 2002, 6867 posts, RR: 29 Reply 6, posted (5 years 4 months 3 weeks 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 6091 times:
Quoting EvilForce (Reply 3): Hmmm, that's the first I've heard of this. The pilots are expecting Airbus 319/320 orders along with either an Embraer 190/195 or Bombardier C series launch order. Not 737.
Quoting NwAflyer07 (Reply 4): Thats because most pilots aren't concerned about the Delta merger. (talked to a few myself) The 737 to delta is like the DC-9 to NW. Since 737s are newer, more efficient aircraft, they will immediately phase out the DC-9s. If NW remains its own, individual airline then perhaps the 190/.195s and C series will be ordered.
Quoting Burnsie28 (Reply 1): The DC-9 replacement is expected to be announced this year... that is, if they don't merge with Delta here shortly. Then it will be the 737 series probably.
As we've said time and time again - there will not be a direct one-for-one DC-9 replacement. There will be replacement CAPACITY for the DC-9 capacity but it will be a mix of different aircraft. This is mostly due to the changing nature of the domestic system and the post-bankruptcy reorganization.
The DC-9 replacement capacity will be in a variety of forms. This essentially includes anything between 50-125 seats. Remember that when they got the ARJ in the late 90's, it was intended to replace the DC-9-10's. The ARJ replacement is also rolled up in this same space. The future replacement will include the following:
CRJ-200's
CRJ-900's
EMB-175's
A 100 +/- seat aircraft
A319's
Note that some of these aircraft are already in the fleet, or on order. The remaining piece of the puzzle is for the 100 seat aircraft and potentially some more 125 seaters.
As for additional A319/A320's, it is doubtful you will see substancially more, if any additional A319/A320's. NW has parted with a number of new A319's in the past year, deemed to be excess along with high ownership costs.
Remember that NW is keeping their domestic system capacity flat, and in some instances getting smaller. Hence why markets are seeing smaller aircraft with fewer seats, but in some instances more frequency. NW has become a lot more lean since Ch. 11.
NW has a plan that they are rolling out over time. They can only replace so much at one time. They finished up the DC-10 replacement with the A330, they are underway with the CR9's & E175's, and the 787's will be up next. From a financial & logistical perspective, don't expect any new 100 seat aircraft until AT LEAST Late 2009. The 100 seaters won't arrive until the current CR9 & 175 orders have been fulfilled.
NW is playing both manufacturers off of each other to get the best deal and each knows it is very important. Hence the posturing and positioning and speculation about E-190/195s vs. C-Series.
They were potentially ready to announce the order in late 2007 / early 2008, but waiting to see if any potential mergers pan out.
As for 737's - not going to happen. Even "IF" DL were to take NW, they would likely replace the DC-9 capacity with the same strategy that NW is currently following. The 73G (and A319/A320) is a substantially larger aircraft and not economical to fly on many of the short hops in the Upper Midwest where NW hauls a significant amount of traffic.
EvilForce From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 7, posted (5 years 4 months 3 weeks 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 6091 times:
Quoting NwAflyer07 (Reply 4): I'm half looking forward to and half dreading the proposed "big announcement" from Delta to take place on January 7th.
Any link available for this by chance?
I honestly don't think there will be much in the way of merger / acquisitions in the airline business this year. With the credit markets as dire as they are, capital intensive industries with spotty earnings records are going to be near impossible to finance. (The airline industry has a horrific track record for ROI.) Since there are only a couple of airlines with solid balance sheets I don't see much M&A within the majors this year from one buying the other. You either need lots of cash / cash equivalents or a deep funding pool as only experienced merger houses have. But even those experts like KKR & Cerebrus are having difficulties financing their cashflow needs.
DL767captain From United States of America, joined Mar 2007, 2539 posts, RR: 0 Reply 8, posted (5 years 4 months 3 weeks 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 6049 times:
WHile the DC-9 is important to them now blah blah blah the rest of the stuff about their DC-9s, they will need to be replaced at some time, But what will they choose
DC-9: Capacity: 100-125 Range: 3,000-3,120 km
So there is the E-190/195 Capacity: 108-118 Range: 2,593-3,334 km
A319 (would give commanality with current planes) Capacity: 125 (2 class) range: 6,800 km
737-700 Capacity: 124 Range: 6,230 km
There is also the C-series (hard to find info on this plane though) Capacity: (C130) 130(dont know if that is 1 class or 2) range: 3,335 km
It seems like the E jets or the C series would be best, almost the same capacity and range and would offer better efficiency than the A319 or the 737 since they arent really made for those routes (would be a waste of range)
Burnsie28 From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 7411 posts, RR: 9 Reply 9, posted (5 years 4 months 3 weeks 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 5910 times:
Quoting EvilForce (Reply 3): Hmmm, that's the first I've heard of this. The pilots are expecting Airbus 319/320 orders along with either an Embraer 190/195 or Bombardier C series launch order. Not 737.
Hmm, living with one and talking with one nothing has been heard about more Airbus's, the rumor only has been the 190/195 and if your read my statement I said that IF THEY MERGE with DELTA then it would be the 737 probably.
Quoting NwAflyer07 (Reply 4): Thats because most pilots aren't concerned about the Delta merger. (talked to a few myself)
I don't know about that since the union is now deducting huge fees from the pilots for merger research.
"Some People Just Know How To Fly"- Best slogan ever, RIP NW 1926-2009
EvilForce From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 10, posted (5 years 4 months 3 weeks 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 5855 times:
Quoting Burnsie28 (Reply 9): I said that IF THEY MERGE with DELTA then it would be the 737 probably.
Sorry my bad, I read your opening post differently than you had intended it to be read then. It seemed to me to read that if they didn't merge with Delta the replacement aircraft for the DC9 was the 737.
CAP2008 From United States of America, joined May 2007, 255 posts, RR: 3 Reply 11, posted (5 years 4 months 3 weeks 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 5514 times:
Does anyone have an idea how much longer the 742 freighters will be around?
(I'm hoping that NW replaces its 742F's with pax 744's/744F's, and orders the 748i )
The mother of the last KC-135 pilot has yet to be born.
KingAir200 From United States of America, joined May 2006, 1579 posts, RR: 2 Reply 12, posted (5 years 4 months 3 weeks 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 5425 times:
Quoting Burnsie28 (Reply 9): I don't know about that since the union is now deducting huge fees from the pilots for merger research
ALPA just wants more money. It is run by senior 744 and 330 pilots who won't even know the difference between having Delta or NWA painted on the side of their airplane if a merger happens anyway.
Quoting CAP2008 (Reply 11): Does anyone have an idea how much longer the 742 freighters will be around?
From what I have seen, they are leaning towards converted 744s and I think they would like to get rid of the 742s as soon as they can replace them efficiently. Of course, the loss of the DHL contract clouds the future of NWA Cargo somewhat.
Eghansen From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 13, posted (5 years 4 months 3 weeks 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 5373 times:
I wouldn't be surprised that some of the DC9 routes get fobbed off to commuter airlines.
I have frequently flown from MSP to RST to visit my sister and the equipment alternates between DC9, SF34 and CR2/CR9. That is to say, this route is flown both by Mesaba and Northwest mainline. I have always wondered why NW doesn't simply let Northwest Airlink run this route considering it is only about 80 miles in length.
DeltaL1011man From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 8577 posts, RR: 8 Reply 14, posted (5 years 4 months 3 weeks 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 5343 times:
Quoting NwAflyer07 (Reply 4): I'm half looking forward to and half dreading the proposed "big announcement" from Delta to take place on January 7th
i must have missed this can i get a link(and its a monday i would guess A) NW buy out B) JFK terminal C) UA SFO,LAX,NRT and ORD buy or D) 787)
"Oh look at the sUGAr falling out of the sky! Look at the sUGAr falling out of the sky!" LM 1922-2011 Go Dawgs! G.A.T.A.
BoeingBus From United States of America, joined May 2004, 1588 posts, RR: 18 Reply 15, posted (5 years 4 months 3 weeks 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 5319 times:
Airbus will always have an edge due to their available slots for the A320. Airbus has already indicated that they will producing 40 per month... and with the new Chinese assembly line you are going to upwards of 50-60 per month in 5-7 years or so... Airbus is meeting the demand for this segment and Boeing is just not responding.
Bmacleod From Canada, joined Aug 2001, 2081 posts, RR: 0 Reply 16, posted (5 years 4 months 3 weeks 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 5294 times:
NWA really missed out selecting the A330 over the 777. I know their financial situation probably prevented them from selecting the more expensive 777 but considering most of Skyteam including CO and DL selected the 777, NW seems to stick out from the rest along with every U.S. major carrier (AA CO UA DL) except US Airways.
The engine is the heart of an airplane, but the pilot is its soul.
KingAir200 From United States of America, joined May 2006, 1579 posts, RR: 2 Reply 17, posted (5 years 4 months 3 weeks 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 5263 times:
Quoting Bmacleod (Reply 16): NWA really missed out selecting the A330 over the 777.
They didn't need the 777. It is too much of an airplane for the DTW and MSP to Europe runs that are the bread and butter of NWA's 330s. For the price, the 330 was the best option at the time and continues to be to this day.
Jetblueguy22 From United States of America, joined Nov 2007, 2021 posts, RR: 1 Reply 18, posted (5 years 4 months 3 weeks 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 5257 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW FORUM MODERATOR
What is all this talk of a merger? I know everyone thinks "oh its going to happen" but there really hasn't been much indication from the airline that a merger is even in the works. MOst likely it won't happen anytime soon. Thats my 2 cents.
Blue
Professor Foltz: You push down on that yolk, the houses get bigger, you pull back on the yolk, the houses get bigger.
EvilForce From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 19, posted (5 years 4 months 3 weeks 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 5244 times:
Quoting Bmacleod (Reply 16): NWA really missed out selecting the A330 over the 777.
Huh? The 330's are perfect fits for NWA. Both DL and CO have 767s and 777s. NWA has 747s for their upper end needs rather than 777s. If NWA bought 777s they would have had nothing in between their 757s and a 777. NWA didn't and doesn't need a 777 fleet.
EvilForce From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 21, posted (5 years 4 months 3 weeks 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 5134 times:
Quoting PhilSquares (Reply 20): The merger fees are held locally and are spent locally.
May I ask how those fees can be "spent locally"? Haven't they hired merger experts / resources to advise them on various merger scenarios? Just curious on how that works.
KingAir200 From United States of America, joined May 2006, 1579 posts, RR: 2 Reply 22, posted (5 years 4 months 3 weeks 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 5124 times:
Quoting PhilSquares (Reply 20): Care to elaborate on your statement? The merger fees are held locally and are spent locally.
DeltaL1011man From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 8577 posts, RR: 8 Reply 23, posted (5 years 4 months 3 weeks 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 5102 times:
SNCntry32 From United States of America, joined Jan 2007, 1511 posts, RR: 0 Reply 24, posted (5 years 4 months 3 weeks 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 4997 times:
Amen... I know in MEM 9E basically is the backbone of NW flying, but some routes need something closer to a real plane out of MEM.
Quoting PSU.DTW.SCE (Reply 2): (IMHO - depending on the cost of fuel, how the Pinnacle pilot contract negotiations escalate, and short term traffic projections 1-2 dozen could be parked/lease terminations sometime in '08-'09)
I could see this hapening, I dont want it too, for my own sake, but I could see it happening. I hope the pilots can work something out soon. Not good for the NW or the DL bussiness.
Quoting PSU.DTW.SCE (Reply 6): Hence the posturing and positioning and speculation about E-190/195s vs. C-Series.
IMHO, Compass will be sold off for a DC-9 replacement and NW will chose the C series, they already ordered the CR2 and the CR9, I think Bombardier would give them a good deal to be the launch customer. CP can be someone else's problem.
Quoting Eghansen (Reply 13): I have frequently flown from MSP to RST to visit my sister and the equipment alternates between DC9, SF34 and CR2/CR9. That is to say, this route is flown both by Mesaba and Northwest mainline. I have always wondered why NW doesn't simply let Northwest Airlink run this route considering it is only about 80 miles in length.
I dont think they send the CR9 down to RST. Its usually a CR2, SF3 and a DC9.
Long Live Memphis!
25 NwAflyer07: No link, thats why i said "proposed announcement." It's just what one of my dad's friends (a fellow manager at nw) told him. I remember hearing that
26 XPJets: The reason for this that I've always been given (and this is pure hearsay from the NW asst. station manager that stuck around after the XJ takeover)
27 PhilSquares: The NWAMEC will hire a law firm that specialises in labor law to advise/represent them in case of a merger. The MEC has control of the funds and deci
28 Burnsie28: Thats why the recent president of ALPA was a NW 752 guy? The 777 was too big and too heavy for routes to Europe, thus is why they did not order the 7
29 PhilSquares: Well, if you want concrete proof, please read this link. click here But don't take my word. What do you suggest for an alternative? Do nothing and ju
30 Eghansen: The DC9 leaving early in the morning is usually quite empty. My point was that the DC9's usually fly routes like MSP-RST, MSP-CID or MSP-DLH that in
31 WesternA318: And she just looks sooo nice in ALL that silver!
32 Jetjack74: Actually, the only 757's which are slated to get winglets are the ones we plan to operate on TATL flights, which covers ships 5635-5649. Ships 5650--
33 WesternA318: And you didnt want to lose that non-refundable deposit from the A330 order way back when, right?
34 Bobnwa: What would selling Compass have to do with a DC-9 replacement? The hundreds of NWA managers I am acquainted with know nothing of any announcement!! S
35 NWAESC: Here's a link to an article regarding NWA's Air Cargo/Freighter plans... http://www.aircargoworld.com/regions/northam_0108.htm They have. A lot.
36 PSU.DTW.SCE: As others have mentioned, the future fleet needs for NWA Cargo will be dependent upon future business once the DHL contract ends. Any 744 freighter c
37 Jetblueguy22: Yeah another dud. Just like the NW/DL one. It most likely isn't going to happen anytime soon. At least within the next year. Blue
38 Burnsie28: I guess where I got $500, other then right out of the word of the NW pilot I live with is that its a $250 + the 0.5% of earnings. I wasn't saying tha
39 United_Fan: Any idea when they'll send the CR9's to ROC? I also noticed N507XJ (RJ85) was ferried MZJ-Europe this week.
40 KingAir200: As of April 2008, he is a captain on the 400 in DTW with a seniority number under 1000. He's been around a while and probably had himself a lot of th
41 SM92: Here is another interesting article in regard to the NWA Cargo fleet. Interesting that it is the only US airline left with a dedicated cargo fleet. h
42 BrianDromey: Elaborate please. For TA runs, nothing, but nothing beats the 333 for CASM, and the A332 ain't too far behind either. The 777 and 330 have different
43 Bobnwa: Look how well the HP/US merger is working out with both groups ALPA. I don't care how much money they collect the various airline ALPA's will never a
44 Skyexramper: NWA will replace 25 DC-9s with the leased YX 717s and then replace the rest with CRJ-900s.
45 Bobnwa: The chances of that happening are zilch.
46 HOOB747: Exceptional post! I would agree Northwest would be wise to convert as many 744s into freighters as their condition dictates. Of those ultra-long haul
47 Wjcandee: And they will fly for whom, given that NW is losing its biggest cargo customer, DHL, shortly?
48 DocLightning: So what are they going to do for large-capacity long-range aircraft?
49 PhilSquares: I suggest you go through one ALPA-ALPA merger with no representation then come back and tell me what you think of a merger assessment. Since any merg
50 Tornado82: How many of these are actual 50 seaters, versus the CRJ-440's?
51 Azjubilee: THere are no more 44 seat CRJs... all have been converted to 50 seats, if they were previously 44 seaters. AZJ
52 Tornado82: Ah, thanks, shows how long since I last flew NWA, lol.
53 DTWAGENT: NWA is all right with the A330's. They fit right in with KLM and AF. These are also Skyteam members. As far as the merger goes. I think that is a done
54 SkyexRamper: Try to secure long term DOD contracts.
55 HOOB747: My question too. Can anyone provide the range of the 787 series compared to the 747-8i?
56 SNCntry32: They dont, but whats to stop NW form selling off the E Jets and Compass? Correct. Althought, sometimes I wonder if a flew are still floating around,
57 Wjcandee: That's an interesting idea, but here's the problem. DOD has no such thing; their airlift awards have been for decades made a year at a time. The vast
58 DocLightning: 787 has longer range, per Boeing's website. But that's not the point. Few of NW's routes approach the limit of a 744. The point is that they 787 is n
59 Admluvs2fly: *STOP THE PRESSES* Expect an announcement Jan.7 . With reguards to NW/DELTA. Thant's all I can say.
60 RedTailDTW: Oh really, who is the mystery source this week? Reguardless, I would be devastated to see the Northwest name go away like that. Mason
61 Bobnwa: I would be willing to wager that is not true!!! Nothing will be announced Jan 7 regarding DL/NW.
62 WA707atMSP: If NW and DL have a signed merger agreement, they will announce it within hours of its signing. They will not wait 1+ weeks until 7 Jan to announce i
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