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BA Cityflyer Looking To Increase Fleet  
User currently offlineBALHRWWCC From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (6 years 6 months 2 weeks 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 5887 times:

As we all know BACF will add two ex Blue 1 RJ85 (OH-SAH and OH-SAI) by May08. They Also have now extended the lease on the 2 RJ100's (G-BXAR and G-BXAS) that where due to return to Bae by May08. This has increased the fleet to 12.
BA is said to be more than happy with the performance of the BACF operation at LCY inparticular the 8 x daily EDI service they are looking at adding to the fleet. This would take on 1 of 3 forms. These are:

(1) Increasing the current fleet of 10 x RJ100 and 2 x RJ85 to include another 3 x RJ85's
(2) Replacing the current fleet of 10 x RJ100's with 13 x RJ85's so the fleet totals 15.
(3) Replacing the aging fleet with a newer a/c more than likely the A318.

They are also looking at the new monopoly AF will have at LCY with recent aquistion of VLM and the current Cityjet operation. If the airlines complain to the EU they could rule that AF give up some of it's slots. If this is the case could see BACF applying for more slots to expand its current operation to destanations currently not served for what is probably the best airport in the uk LCY.

So what do you think more RJ's or a new a/c type all together??

Any idea of routes if AF is forced to give up some of it's VLM slots??

29 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinePlanemanofnz From New Zealand, joined Sep 2005, 1666 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (6 years 6 months 2 weeks 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 5862 times:
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Quoting BALHRWWCC (Thread starter):
Any idea of routes

I'm thinking Ireland. Either BHD or DUB. They would thrash CityJet on the BHD route with Af's silly turboporps and marketing through 'Operated by ScotAirways on behalf of CityJet by Air France.'

Quoting BALHRWWCC (Thread starter):
(3) Replacing the aging fleet with a newer a/c more than likely the A318.

Would the performance of this aircraft be any better on the short routes out of LCY?


User currently offlineBALHRWWCC From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (6 years 6 months 2 weeks 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 5778 times:



Quoting Planemanofnz (Reply 1):
Would the performance of this aircraft be any better on the short routes out of LCY?

It would enable BACF to operate more flights to Italy, Spain, Scandanavia also possibly ATH and IST.
They start Warsaw in May. 2hr 30mins in a RJ would be a bit far to be cooked up in the pokey cabin.

Quoting Planemanofnz (Reply 1):
I'm thinking Ireland. Either BHD or DUB. They would thrash CityJet on the BHD route with Af's silly turboporps and marketing through 'Operated by ScotAirways on behalf of CityJet by Air France.'

I am afraid to say that the BHD/LCY route would be at the bottom of a large number of other destanations as ir struggles sometimes to fill a Dornier 328 let alone a RJ85. If you think it is bad now wait until they start: Operated by VLM on behalf of Scot Airways on behalf of Cityjet by Air France. Travelled on both the Dornier 328 and F50 and the Dornier was a better ride. DUB is already well established as a Cityjet route.


User currently offlineLHRjc From Netherlands, joined Apr 2006, 1964 posts, RR: 20
Reply 3, posted (6 years 6 months 2 weeks 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 5718 times:

This is a all great news fro BACF. While it's nice to see them doing so well, I can't see them placing an order for brand new aircraft just yet, until they've proved themselves some more. Look at what happened with the LGW fleet - BA said they wouldn't replace the aircraft until LGW started making a profit, and now they're getting the older ex-LHR A319's.

I can see if BACF carry on doing well maybe some new aircraft in 2-3 years but for now I'd imagine they will just make do with used RJ's. It keeps fleet commonality and therefore costs down, which IMO is what they need right now.

Quoting BALHRWWCC (Reply 2):
They start Warsaw in May. 2hr 30mins in a RJ would be a bit far to be cooked up in the pokey cabin.

Yeah I don't fancy that myself. At the moment, I fly to WAW a lot on business and my office is in Central London. I will still trek my way across London to LHR (or LGW when BA moves the service) to fly BA Mainline to WAW. RJ's are great for short hops but after doing a MAN-MAD on an old BA Citiexpress RJ, I wouldn't fancy such a long stint again.



"Our 319's are very reliable. They get fixed very quickly."
User currently offlineLHRjc From Netherlands, joined Apr 2006, 1964 posts, RR: 20
Reply 4, posted (6 years 6 months 2 weeks 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 5718 times:

duplicate post sorry

[Edited 2007-12-30 01:02:40]


"Our 319's are very reliable. They get fixed very quickly."
User currently offlineBALHRWWCC From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (6 years 6 months 2 weeks 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 5632 times:



Quoting LHRjc (Reply 3):
Yeah I don't fancy that myself. At the moment, I fly to WAW a lot on business and my office is in Central London. I will still trek my way across London to LHR (or LGW when BA moves the service) to fly BA Mainline to WAW. RJ's are great for short hops but after doing a MAN-MAD on an old BA Citiexpress RJ, I wouldn't fancy such a long stint again.

I would travel from LCY. I flew to MAD from LCY in the summer in club. The service was exactly the same in fact better because the offered a healthy option as well as the good old full english out and a hot dinner back.and the seat was more comfortable than on the 737 and Airbus. Going all the way to LGW for WAW would be a waste of time when check in closes at LGW at minus 45 then you have long security queues. LCY is a 20 min check in No real queues at security. On the return bag was off in 5 minutes unlike the sometimes 30 mins to a hour at LGW. The crew are consistantly excellent.

Even domestically I fly to EDI and used to fly from LHR now use LCY becasue of the ease of check in there are 8 flights a day bags always off within 10 mins at peak times. It has cut out 3 hours roundtrip off my journey.

So give it a try before you go to LGW.


User currently offlineChristianLee15 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (6 years 6 months 2 weeks 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 5590 times:

I don't think a NQY flight would go a miss, in a purely non-bias way. It'd help my Dad to get to the International Boat Show at ExCeL after all.  Big grin

User currently offlineJoost From Netherlands, joined Apr 2005, 3159 posts, RR: 4
Reply 7, posted (6 years 6 months 2 weeks 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 5575 times:



Quoting LHRjc (Reply 3):
RJ's are great for short hops but after doing a MAN-MAD on an old BA Citiexpress RJ, I wouldn't fancy such a long stint again.

Are BA's Avro's 2+3 or 3+3? I'd say that a 2+3 seating in the RJ85/RJ100s isn't that bad, is it?


User currently offlineJoost From Netherlands, joined Apr 2005, 3159 posts, RR: 4
Reply 8, posted (6 years 6 months 2 weeks 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 5558 times:



Quoting BALHRWWCC (Thread starter):
Any idea of routes if AF is forced to give up some of it's VLM slots??

I think they'll reduce AMS-LCY, or add larger aircraft. VLM is scheduled to run 12 daily F50 flights from next spring, KLM has scheduled another 7. I'd say 19 flights on the route is a bit much.


Especially in the early morning the can easily consolidate:
KL1553 07:00-07:15
KL1555 07:40-08:00
KL1557 08:15-08:35

VG211 07:00-07:15
VG213 07:35-07:55
VG215 07:55-08:15
VG217 08:55-09:15

Even without the need to give up slots, they will reduce the number of flights (either just reducing the supply, either upgauging) and preferably use the slots for new destinations.


User currently offlineLHRjc From Netherlands, joined Apr 2006, 1964 posts, RR: 20
Reply 9, posted (6 years 6 months 2 weeks 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 5532 times:



Quoting Joost (Reply 7):
Are BA's Avro's 2+3 or 3+3? I'd say that a 2+3 seating in the RJ85/RJ100s isn't that bad, is it?

No, 2-3 would be fine, but all the BA RJ's I've flown on are 3-3 which is really cramped, especially for a LCY-WAW sector.



"Our 319's are very reliable. They get fixed very quickly."
User currently offlineJoost From Netherlands, joined Apr 2005, 3159 posts, RR: 4
Reply 10, posted (6 years 6 months 2 weeks 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 5449 times:



Quoting LHRjc (Reply 9):
No, 2-3 would be fine, but all the BA RJ's I've flown on are 3-3 which is really cramped, especially for a LCY-WAW sector.

It's actually strange that they offer such a LCC-like cabin on such a premium flight.


User currently offlineBALHRWWCC From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (6 years 6 months 2 weeks 4 days ago) and read 5337 times:



Quoting Joost (Reply 7):
Are BA's Avro's 2+3 or 3+3? I'd say that a 2+3 seating in the RJ85/RJ100s isn't that bad, is it?

The RJ100's are configured 3 and 3 however club is converter seats so when it is club it has the standard BA 2 and 3 cabin

The RJ85's are to be configured 3/2 with club being converter seats which will make it a 2/2 cabin.
[
quote=Joost,reply=10]It's actually strange that they offer such a LCC-like cabin on such a premium flight.
[/quote]

2/3 club and 3/3 economy is the standard BA mainline config in europe. Seat pitch is the same as on a 737 and Airbus.

Quoting Joost (Reply 8):
I think they'll reduce AMS-LCY, or add larger aircraft. VLM is scheduled to run 12 daily F50 flights from next spring, KLM has scheduled another 7. I'd say 19 flights on the route is a bit much.

Also BA start 4 x daily services to AMS . 23 flights a day a bit much could see the KL flights discontinuing and the VLM ones continuing

Quoting LHRjc (Reply 9):

No, 2-3 would be fine, but all the BA RJ's I've flown on are 3-3 which is really cramped, especially for a LCY-WAW sector.

When I travelled back from MAD when I went in economy it was a bit cramped but there was more room than on the 737 i used to use from LGW. The seat is slightly wider on the RJ and as long as you dont sit in the very back row of the aircraft the seat pitch is exactly the same as the 737. What you should do is try it when it first starts. Do one flight and then if you would rather fly on the LGW/WAW you can go back to it. At least you will have tried it. There is nothing for it you will have to fly Club Europe for the 2/3 config. Also no plans finalised about where the RJ85's will operate to. So it could be WAW then it would be a 2/3 config in Y and 2/2 in C


User currently offlinePlymSpotter From Spain, joined Jun 2004, 11607 posts, RR: 60
Reply 12, posted (6 years 6 months 2 weeks 4 days ago) and read 5297 times:



Quoting ChristianLee15 (Reply 6):
I don't think a NQY flight would go a miss, in a purely non-bias way. It'd help my Dad to get to the International Boat Show at ExCeL after all.

A few years ago LCY-PLH flights were announced by a small operator whose name I forget, but I don't think any more came of these. It's a market which VLM could perhaps find a niche in though; the F50 has no problems at PLH.


Dan Smile



...love is just a camouflage for what resembles rage again...
User currently offlineDoona From Sweden, joined Feb 2005, 3764 posts, RR: 13
Reply 13, posted (6 years 6 months 2 weeks 4 days ago) and read 5237 times:



Quoting Planemanofnz (Reply 1):
Operated by ScotAirways on behalf of CityJet by Air France

Well, it's all about keeping customers so confused that they don't have a chance to complain.  silly 

Cheers
Mats



Sure, we're concerned for our lives. Just not as concerned as saving 9 bucks on a roundtrip to Ft. Myers.
User currently offlineLHRjc From Netherlands, joined Apr 2006, 1964 posts, RR: 20
Reply 14, posted (6 years 6 months 2 weeks 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 5147 times:



Quoting BALHRWWCC (Reply 11):
The RJ85's are to be configured 3/2 with club being converter seats which will make it a 2/2 cabin.

Sounds far better and less cramped.

Quoting BALHRWWCC (Reply 11):
What you should do is try it when it first starts. Do one flight and then if you would rather fly on the LGW/WAW you can go back to it. At least you will have tried it. There is nothing for it you will have to fly Club Europe for the 2/3 config. Also no plans finalised about where the RJ85's will operate to. So it could be WAW then it would be a 2/3 config in Y and 2/2 in C

Well yes I'll definitely give it a go, and with 2/2 in C, haven't got anything to lose  Smile



"Our 319's are very reliable. They get fixed very quickly."
User currently offlineBALHRWWCC From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (6 years 6 months 2 weeks 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 5089 times:



Quoting LHRjc (Reply 14):
Well yes I'll definitely give it a go, and with 2/2 in C, haven't got anything to lose Smile

What u got to loose at least u will then know whether to use it or not in the future


User currently offlineFlyCaledonian From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2003, 2067 posts, RR: 3
Reply 16, posted (6 years 6 months 2 weeks 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 5034 times:

3+3 in Traveller might be the BA standard in economy for Europe, but an RJ85 or RJ100 has a narrower cabin than a 737 or A320S aircraft.

If they went for new airracft are the new Embraer 170/175/190/195 aircraft certified for use at LCY?



Let's Go British Caledonian!
User currently onlineVV701 From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2005, 7364 posts, RR: 17
Reply 17, posted (6 years 6 months 2 weeks 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 4920 times:



Quoting BALHRWWCC (Reply 11):
Also no plans finalised about where the RJ85's will operate to. So it could be WAW then it would be a 2/3 config in Y and 2/2 in C

Originally they planned to exchange two RJ100s for two ex-Maseba RJ85s last spring. Indeed G-BXAR was either actually returned or was prepared for return which is why its former Union Flag livery was painted out. However the cost of converting the ex-Maseba aircraft for European use proved to be too high. 'AR was therefore repainted with BA titles and the Speedmarque:

View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Steve Nash
View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © P. Lohmberg


and returned to service.

The reason for the planned exchange was that the RJ100 was restricted in its load to sometimes as little as 60 per cent of its theoretical capacity while operating out of LCY on longer routes like LCY-MAD. So an RJ85 that could operate the same route at full capacity would have lower operating costs and carry up to 40 per cent more passengers.

It is therefore reasonably certain that the two RJ85s now earmarked to join the fleet in the early summer will be used on longer routes like LCY-MAD and LCY-WAW.


User currently offlineEXTspotter From United Kingdom, joined May 2007, 992 posts, RR: 1
Reply 18, posted (6 years 6 months 2 weeks 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 3893 times:



Quoting PlymSpotter (Reply 12):
Quoting ChristianLee15 (Reply 6):
I don't think a NQY flight would go a miss, in a purely non-bias way. It'd help my Dad to get to the International Boat Show at ExCeL after all.

A few years ago LCY-PLH flights were announced by a small operator whose name I forget, but I don't think any more came of these. It's a market which VLM could perhaps find a niche in though; the F50 has no problems at PLH.


Dan

Brymon on Dash 7s.

They were emalgamated into BA a long time back.

Brymon and Mowlem Construction were the main force behind the building of LCY.

I think they were owned by Sutton Harbour Holdings a la Air Southwest (aka Brymon 2) and Plymouth City Airport.



AF BE BY FR MV PD SZ U2 VZ DHC6, 8-3/4Q, 732/8, 763ER, A319, A380
User currently offlineVfw614 From Germany, joined Dec 2001, 3946 posts, RR: 5
Reply 19, posted (6 years 6 months 2 weeks 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 3755 times:

Where from could they get 13 RJ85? Cityjet has snapped up most of Mesaba's fleet.

One of the airports where Cityflyer has applied for slots is DUS.


User currently offlinePlymSpotter From Spain, joined Jun 2004, 11607 posts, RR: 60
Reply 20, posted (6 years 6 months 2 weeks 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 3626 times:



Quoting EXTspotter (Reply 18):
Brymon on Dash 7s.

They were emalgamated into BA a long time back.

Brymon and Mowlem Construction were the main force behind the building of LCY.

I think they were owned by Sutton Harbour Holdings a la Air Southwest (aka Brymon 2) and Plymouth City Airport.

Nope, this was a couple of years ago. The aircraft were only supposed to hold about 8 people and it was aimed exclusively at the business traveller with a trip costing something like £300-£400 (not sure if that's one way/return or per flight/per person - I just remember the figure) and was basically a glorified charter operation. If ONLY that route could be set up with the Dash 7 again... what memories that would bring back!


Dan Smile



...love is just a camouflage for what resembles rage again...
User currently offlineBALHRWWCC From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 21, posted (6 years 6 months 2 weeks 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 3473 times:



Quoting VV701 (Reply 17):
It is therefore reasonably certain that the two RJ85s now earmarked to join the fleet in the early summer will be used on longer routes like LCY-MAD and LCY-WAW.

Think it is more likely the new RJ85's will operate the current route to MAD and the new BCN route starting in May. The WAW will more than likely be on the RJ100


User currently offlineBBJII From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2005, 850 posts, RR: 4
Reply 22, posted (6 years 6 months 1 week 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 2975 times:

The RJ85 will be in 2+3 config all the way down.

Biz will be sold as 2+2

Happy New Year



Remember: The Bird Hit You, You Didn't Hit The Bird.....
User currently offlineL1011aaron From United Kingdom, joined May 2004, 139 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (6 years 6 months 1 week 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 2783 times:

Can anyone give me a list of the destinations and frequencies served by CityFlyer from LCY?

Thanks

[Edited 2008-01-05 03:44:29]

[Edited 2008-01-05 03:44:48]

User currently offlineBMED From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2004, 860 posts, RR: 6
Reply 24, posted (6 years 6 months 1 week 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 2691 times:



Quoting BALHRWWCC (Thread starter):
recent aquistion of VLM

Can't believe I missed this over december!!!!

I wouldn't have thought that BACF would go for the A318, as people have already said, it might have limiations imposed on it. The ERJ family could be a good option though?



Living the jetset life! No better way to be
25 SKAirbus : Swiss have a 2-3 configuration on their RJ fleet.... very comfortable... Lufthansa however have a 3-3 configuration on their fleet which was very very
26 VV701 : Until end March: EDI Days 1-5, 8 flights. Days 6-7, 2 flights. FRA Days 1-5, 3 flights. Day 7, 1 flight. GLA Days 1-5, 4 flights. Day 6, 1 flight. Da
27 AA767LOVER : What is BA CityFlyer's route network? Never heard of this affiliate before. What is the main hub, and what markets are served from this hub?
28 Post contains links Feroze : BA Cityflyer BA Cityflyer is a wholly owned subsidiary of British Airways and operates all UK and European services to and from London City airport.
29 AA767LOVER : Thanks so much! It is very helpful to know as I hardly fly BA or even anything in Europe nowadays. The last time i was ever in Europe was in 1999. Wel
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