Sponsor Message:
Civil Aviation Forum
My Starred Topics | Profile | New Topic | Forum Index | Help | Search 
AAs Relationship With Airbus  
User currently offlineOrion737 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (6 years 8 months 1 week 9 hours ago) and read 8677 times:

Is it somewhat strained since the controversial A300 crash. It seems AA are in no hurry to replace their 600Rs, primarily because there is no aircraft out there to do the same job but I feel AA will not be in a hurry to order Airbus in the future.

60 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineAABB777 From United States of America, joined Oct 2007, 543 posts, RR: 2
Reply 1, posted (6 years 8 months 1 week 9 hours ago) and read 8644 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

AA was one of three carriers - CO & DL being the other two - to sign an exclusive agreement with Boeing in the late 1990s. When Boeing acquired McDonnell Douglas, the European Union forced Boeing to void the contracts, however the carriers are widely believed to still have a 'gentlemen's agreement' with Boeing. That being said, I still do not think AA will order any Airbus a/c in the future. They will order more 738s - in addition to the one order placed this year - and eventually an announcement to purchase a fleet of 787s. AA is also in a 'wait-and-see-' mode with Boeing to see what will eventually replace the 737 family.

User currently offlineSPREE34 From United States of America, joined Jun 2004, 2248 posts, RR: 9
Reply 2, posted (6 years 8 months 1 week 7 hours ago) and read 8413 times:

AA will buy the aircraft that best fills a specific need. I believe the manufacturer of the craft will be irrelevant to AA if their product is competitive and fills the need.

AA, and every other carrier is there to make money. Nothing more. They will use equipment that makes money in a given circumstance, nothing more.



I don't understand everything I don't know about this.
User currently offlineCaetravlr From United States of America, joined Oct 2000, 908 posts, RR: 1
Reply 3, posted (6 years 8 months 1 week 6 hours ago) and read 8339 times:

Not to deviate too far from the original topic, but didn't Delta actually have issues with the support that Airbus gave them for some A310s that they had at one point (from Pan Am I believe)? Even before the exclusivity agreement with Boeing, weren't the relations between Delta and Airbus already pretty bad? My recollection of all of the details here are pretty spotty, but I was wondering if maybe AA had a similar bad experience with Airbus?


A woman drove me to drink and I didn't have the decency to thank her. - W.C. Fields
User currently offlineThreepoint From Canada, joined Oct 2005, 2130 posts, RR: 9
Reply 4, posted (6 years 8 months 1 week 6 hours ago) and read 8180 times:



Quoting SPREE34 (Reply 2):
AA will buy the aircraft that best fills a specific need. I believe the manufacturer of the craft will be irrelevant to AA if their product is competitive and fills the need.

AA, and every other carrier is there to make money. Nothing more. They will use equipment that makes money in a given circumstance, nothing more.

If the business world worked this way, there'd be no need for lobbyists. Every product manufacturer will sweeten the pot and exert influence to help sway a customer towards 'needing' its product more than any others. How they do so is often a source of great interest and controversy. So, there is actually a LOT more...



The nice thing about a mistake is the pleasure it gives others.
User currently offlineSPREE34 From United States of America, joined Jun 2004, 2248 posts, RR: 9
Reply 5, posted (6 years 8 months 1 week 5 hours ago) and read 8153 times:



Quoting Threepoint (Reply 4):
Every product manufacturer will sweeten the pot and exert influence to help sway a customer towards 'needing' its product more

Like I said, "if their product is competitive...". Competition comes in many forms. Discounts, service agreements, offsets......



I don't understand everything I don't know about this.
User currently offlineThreepoint From Canada, joined Oct 2005, 2130 posts, RR: 9
Reply 6, posted (6 years 8 months 1 week 5 hours ago) and read 8108 times:



Quoting SPREE34 (Reply 5):
Competition comes in many forms.

That's true. I wasn't sure if you had originally implied that an airline's execs make an acquisition decision by simply evaluating the specs of each option against their requirements, then calling the successul manufacturer to place an order.
Even so, even if one airplane type is slightly more appropriate than another type, the unwritten agreements that certainly exist in the airline world may tip the scales in favour of the 'lesser' product. It's an indisputable fact of big business such as the airline world.



The nice thing about a mistake is the pleasure it gives others.
User currently offlineDL767captain From United States of America, joined Mar 2007, 2539 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (6 years 8 months 1 week 4 hours ago) and read 7947 times:

I don't think AA will ever go back to airbus, it does surprise me that they havent replaced the A300s for comanality purposes but that will come some time. I could see AA eventuall operating almost the entire 787 family. 787-3 to replace the A300, 787-8/9 to replace the 767s and the 787-10 to replace the 777s (that would be a while though). Then they will probably wait on the 737RS to replace 737s and 757s and i guess also MD-80s

User currently offlineCedarjet From United Kingdom, joined May 1999, 8093 posts, RR: 54
Reply 8, posted (6 years 8 months 1 week 4 hours ago) and read 7836 times:

I can't imagine the relationship is "bad" - I mean, AA have, what, twenty A300s? They must need a lot of parts to keep em in the air, so there's dozens of phone calls and hundreds of emails every day between AA in Texas and Airbus in Toulouse. I'm sure a lot of the people at AA who work with Airbus are good pals with their opposite numbers across the pond. This has been going on for more than ten years. Friends for life, I'd say.

If there's any dissonance, it's with certain elements in the boardroom at AA who can't accept one of their pilots mishandled the aircraft. Fact is, Airbus are no 1 (and the US is Airbus' biggest market). That says enough about Airbus professionalism. They may not be perfect but you don't overtake Boeing when it comes to building jetliners if you don't know what you're doing or how to treat a customer.

(I don't know if Delta weren't getting enough love from Airbus to keep the A310s. I'm sure they did order some aircraft direct after the Pan Am takeover so their relationship with Airbus can't have been all bad. I'm willing to be corrected but I would have thought DL got rid of the A310s cos they just didn't fit in an all-American fleet, esp given that the 767-300 can do most things an A310 can do, except carry LD3 containers.)



fly Saha Air 707s daily from Tehran's downtown Mehrabad to Mashhad, Kish Island and Ahwaz
User currently offlineLTU932 From Germany, joined Jan 2006, 13864 posts, RR: 50
Reply 9, posted (6 years 8 months 1 week 4 hours ago) and read 7828 times:



Quoting Cedarjet (Reply 8):
I'm sure they did order some aircraft direct after the Pan Am takeover so their relationship with Airbus can't have been all bad.

I believe DL never ordered the A310 directly. When they were taking delivery of brandnew A310s, those came from an order they took over from PA. Correct me if I'm wrong though, but I'm sure DL never ordered brandnew A310s, at least not directly.


User currently offlineKaitak From Ireland, joined Aug 1999, 12438 posts, RR: 37
Reply 10, posted (6 years 8 months 1 week 3 hours ago) and read 7799 times:



Quoting LTU932 (Reply 9):
Correct me if I'm wrong though, but I'm sure DL never ordered brandnew A310s, at least not directly.

I think you're right; they're all ex-PA aircraft. Mind you, they MIGHT have taken delivery of some directly, i.e. orders still o/s when DL took over PA, in Dec 1991.

Re American and AA, I don't think it's necessarily in AA's - or any airline's - interests to be tied to a single supplier. There are commonality advantages to it, but it helps to "incentivise" the main supplier if they know that there is real competition. I don't see any place for Airbus until the MD80 comes up for replacement (and indeed, then, I'd be very surprised to see Airbus get that), but AA surely understands that it needs to have Airbus as a plausible alternative to get a good deal from Boeing.

As regards the AA 587 crash, it's not that unusual to have airlines and manufacturers fall out when it comes to a crash; I'm sure it has had similar issues with Boeing and McDD in the past, so I don't see that being a major obstacle.

I believe AA's AB6 fleet is now about 36? Not sure if all are active.


User currently offlineAABB777 From United States of America, joined Oct 2007, 543 posts, RR: 2
Reply 11, posted (6 years 8 months 1 week 3 hours ago) and read 7743 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!



Quoting Kaitak (Reply 10):
I believe AA's AB6 fleet is now about 36? Not sure if all are active.

I believe the current count is 34 actives. Am looking forward for that number to go to Zero.  Smile


User currently offlineCedarjet From United Kingdom, joined May 1999, 8093 posts, RR: 54
Reply 12, posted (6 years 8 months 1 week 3 hours ago) and read 7718 times:



Quoting AABB777 (Reply 11):
I believe the current count is 34 actives. Am looking forward for that number to go to Zero.

I just want to add that it's ridiculous for AA, their staff and their customers to dislike the A300. I know it's a traadition but I don't get it. At every other airline on the planet, the A300 is loved by pax for it's roominess and smooth ride, and by the airlines as a cash cow. AA make a fortune just from the cargo capacity, which is miles better than the 767. Why is the A300 such a bad fit at AA when it's been such a success everywhere else? Is it 587? Well that's crazy. Other airlines have had pilot-induced crashes, and don't blame the aeroplane. Indeed, China Air Lines had two A300s go out of control on finals, and had the balls to focus on bad training and CRM rather than the aircraft. So come on, seriously, why is the A300 such a nightmaare?



fly Saha Air 707s daily from Tehran's downtown Mehrabad to Mashhad, Kish Island and Ahwaz
User currently offlineScrubbsYWG From Canada, joined Mar 2007, 1495 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (6 years 8 months 1 week 3 hours ago) and read 7666 times:



Quoting Threepoint (Reply 4):
If the business world worked this way, there'd be no need for lobbyists. Every product manufacturer will sweeten the pot and exert influence to help sway a customer towards 'needing' its product more than any others. How they do so is often a source of great interest and controversy. So, there is actually a LOT more...

somewhat related to lobbyists and airline aircraft purchases...

You may have heard as part of the schreiber/mulroney airbus affair in canada that schreiber got a commission for $300k per aircraft for all the airbus planes air canada purchased as part of their fleet renewal. That's a lot of dough, so yeah, lobbyists are pretty huge.


User currently offlineTomFoolery From Austria, joined Jan 2004, 529 posts, RR: 2
Reply 14, posted (6 years 8 months 1 week 2 hours ago) and read 7595 times:

The condition and the service reliability of the aircraft is a direct result of the airline and its respective FAA approved maintenance requirements. In the event of an equipment malfunction, there is a decisision to be made on the part of the airline (maintenance engineer) if the aircraft can continue service or is grounded (AOG). If there is an AOG call, the replacement parts are usually dispached within an agreed timeframe.
The cabin components (seats, walls, bins, galley, lavs, etc) that we the passenger are exposed to are not even supplied by the manufacturer (airbus or boeing or McD), rather a sub contractor, and the upkeep and the quality is up to the airline, not the manufacturer.
That being said, the preceived condition of AAs 300s are a direct result of AA, and not Airbus. Until the last 5 years or so, the A 300s were generally top notch, and every bit as nice as the MD 11s and better than the old DC10s (which were pretty old machines when they went to pasture. Today, the seats are a bit worn, and the audio/video is a bit dated, but considering the aircraft are between 15 and 20 years old, they are holding up quite well. They are much better than the DC 10s from UA and certainly NW (I know this aircraft is a particular darling of many, but the airlines really let the cabins go toward the end). I recall my last flight from AMS to DTW (DC 10), one lav, and one row of seats were INOP and components in the galley were inop (one oven and 2 coffee makers i think), which was not catistrophic, but not very professional either. I seriously doubt that was a measure of the quality of the relationship between NWA and McD. I dont think the relationship between AA and Airbus is strained per se, but I dont think that these A/C are finished, and I dont think that Airbus will be as competitive as Boeing with replacements. More pawer to them if they can, but I dont see it.

Tom

[Edited 2007-12-31 11:31:27]


Paper makes an airplane fly
User currently offlineThreepoint From Canada, joined Oct 2005, 2130 posts, RR: 9
Reply 15, posted (6 years 8 months 1 week 2 hours ago) and read 7592 times:



Quoting ScrubbsYWG (Reply 13):
You may have heard as part of the schreiber/mulroney airbus affair in canada that schreiber got a commission for $300k per aircraft for all the airbus planes air canada purchased as part of their fleet renewal. That's a lot of dough, so yeah, lobbyists are pretty huge.

Those aren't the details being reported here. I haven't heard of what, if any, commission Schreiber received from Airbus. The $300K figure (total - not per aircraft) is what Schreiber claimed to pay to Mulroney as a fee for 'services rendered'. These services may have been related to the Airbus purchase, but Mulroney claims the compensation had to do with helping sell armoured vehicles upon reentering his private sector life. The fact that Mulroney associated with and made a deal as sitting PM with this guy (wanted for bribery in his native Germany) and then failed to declare the income are the main sticking points of this issue. Schreiber was more than a simple lobbyist for Airbus or an armoured vehicle company - he had a role in affecting the outcome of the Progressive Conservative leadership campaign, which led directly to Mulroney emerging as leader and going on to becoming PM in a federal election all but tied up for the Torys.
Specific allegations against Mulroney re Airbus were dismissed a few years ago after the criminal charges could not be substantiated. Mulroney won a substantial amount of money in the aftermath of that affair.
Although we don't yet know if Mulroney accepted cash in return for greasing the (then Crown Corp AC) acquisition of Airbus planes, the entire thing stinks to high heaven.



The nice thing about a mistake is the pleasure it gives others.
User currently offlineN1120A From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 26450 posts, RR: 75
Reply 16, posted (6 years 8 months 1 week 2 hours ago) and read 7330 times:



Quoting DL767captain (Reply 7):
it does surprise me that they havent replaced the A300s for comanality purposes but that will come some time.

The A300 fleet is almost large enough to make commonality a non-issue. Further, their profit potential and the fact that they are completely paid for more than makes up for any extra cost.

Quoting Cedarjet (Reply 8):
esp given that the 767-300 can do most things an A310 can do, except carry LD3 containers.

The 763ER can do a lot more than the A310 in most areas. It is larger, has a lower CASM and has far more range.

Quoting Cedarjet (Reply 12):
Other airlines have had pilot-induced crashes

And it has never been settled that 587 was pilot caused or the cause of poor support by Airbus

Quoting TomFoolery (Reply 14):
They are much better than the DC 10s from UA

UA hasn't flown DC-10s for years.



Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
User currently offlineThreepoint From Canada, joined Oct 2005, 2130 posts, RR: 9
Reply 17, posted (6 years 8 months 1 week 2 hours ago) and read 7192 times:



Quoting N1120A (Reply 16):
And it has never been settled that 587 was pilot caused

It certainly has been. http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief.asp?ev_id=20011130X02321&key=1



The nice thing about a mistake is the pleasure it gives others.
User currently offlineExL10Mktg From United States of America, joined Dec 2007, 65 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (6 years 8 months 1 week 2 hours ago) and read 7192 times:



Quoting Cedarjet (Reply 12):

Maintenance! Flight crews and pax love the roominess, but there are continuous problems and frequent delays -- which nobody likes.


User currently offlineCedarjet From United Kingdom, joined May 1999, 8093 posts, RR: 54
Reply 19, posted (6 years 8 months 1 week 2 hours ago) and read 7138 times:



Quoting N1120A (Reply 16):
The 763ER can do a lot more than the A310 in most areas. It is larger, has a lower CASM and has far more range.

True. I love the A310, and it doesn't do too badly on range, I flew Air Transat to Toronto the other day (from London Gatwick), every seat filled (and on TS, that's 289 seats, 9 abreast), full load of airfreight underneath, and a whopping headwind all the way, for an airborne flight time of 8h18m. That's not bad performance.

Quoting N1120A (Reply 16):
And it has never been settled that 587 was pilot caused or the cause of poor support by Airbus

Actually I think it was settled without a doubt by the investigation. No mystery. We're not talking about Tudors going missing in the South Atlantic in the 50s here. The pilot overstressed the vertical stab, which failed at about 150% of it's certified load. The recommendations for not tapdancing on the rudder pedals were for pilots on all Airbus and all Boeing planes. Had nothing to do with the type, or the manufacturer, or materials or anything. The lesson, wholly unnecessary as it's quite obvious, was, don't reverse the rudder from full deflection to full deflection or you'll rip the tail off.



fly Saha Air 707s daily from Tehran's downtown Mehrabad to Mashhad, Kish Island and Ahwaz
User currently offlineEbs757 From United States of America, joined Jul 2006, 758 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (6 years 8 months 1 week 2 hours ago) and read 7082 times:



Quoting Cedarjet (Reply 12):

I just want to add that it's ridiculous for AA, their staff and their customers to dislike the A300. I know it's a traadition but I don't get it. At every other airline on the planet, the A300 is loved by pax for it's roominess and smooth ride, and by the airlines as a cash cow. AA make a fortune just from the cargo capacity, which is miles better than the 767. Why is the A300 such a bad fit at AA when it's been such a success everywhere else? Is it 587? Well that's crazy. Other airlines have had pilot-induced crashes, and don't blame the aeroplane. Indeed, China Air Lines had two A300s go out of control on finals, and had the balls to focus on bad training and CRM rather than the aircraft. So come on, seriously, why is the A300 such a nightmaare?

Hey at least AA can aadmit to not training pilots properly. What has airbus admitted to? Rudders being to sensitive, no
Building a plane where the tail falls off if you over-control the rudder is like building a car where the wheels fall off every time you hit the brakes too hard.



Viva la Vida
User currently offlineN1120A From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 26450 posts, RR: 75
Reply 21, posted (6 years 8 months 1 week 1 hour ago) and read 7048 times:



Quoting Cedarjet (Reply 19):
The lesson, wholly unnecessary as it's quite obvious, was, don't reverse the rudder from full deflection to full deflection or you'll rip the tail off.



Quoting Cedarjet (Reply 19):

Actually I think it was settled without a doubt by the investigation.

What hasn't been settled is whether or not Airbus properly notified AA that this is what would happen in this situation.

Quoting Cedarjet (Reply 19):
I love the A310, and it doesn't do too badly on range

It does when you compare it to the 763ER

Quoting Ebs757 (Reply 20):

Building a plane where the tail falls off if you over-control the rudder is like building a car where the wheels fall off every time you hit the brakes too hard.

 checkmark 



Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
User currently offlineThreepoint From Canada, joined Oct 2005, 2130 posts, RR: 9
Reply 22, posted (6 years 8 months 1 week 1 hour ago) and read 7029 times:



Quoting Ebs757 (Reply 20):
What has airbus admitted to? Rudders being to sensitive, no

Too sensitive? If you ever fly a plane, let me know what happens if you do the same manoever as was demonstrated on AA587.

Quoting Ebs757 (Reply 20):
Building a plane where the tail falls off if you over-control the rudder is like building a car where the wheels fall off every time you hit the brakes too hard.

Building an aircraft over-engineered to handle any conceivable stress load will result in a tank with wings that may never leave the ground. As it is today, aircraft builders have achieved remarkable strength using light materials. Most commercial planes can take more punishment than their occupants.



The nice thing about a mistake is the pleasure it gives others.
User currently offlineThreepoint From Canada, joined Oct 2005, 2130 posts, RR: 9
Reply 23, posted (6 years 8 months 1 week 1 hour ago) and read 6919 times:

Quoting N1120A (Reply 21):
What hasn't been settled is whether or not Airbus properly notified AA that this is what would happen in this situation.

That's not what you said in reply 16.
Now, how do you suppose an aircraft manufacturer should go about determining whether or not their plane will fail under pilot abuse? Should stressing every component to the point of failure be a part of the certification regime? It is possible to break any airplane out there, regardless of manufacturer. To suggest that Airbus, Boeing or anybody else should assume the burden of notifying its customers about possible consequences of remote and/or inconceivable instances beyond what they currently do suggests a collective descent into the mindset that has led to so many frivolous lawsuits in your country.
It was an unimagined (or deemed sufficiently unlikely) problem, which has since been addressed by the manufacturer and the operator (relevant rudder training). They have both done the right thing, but neither should be liable for any pre-accident behaviour.

[Edited 2007-12-31 12:40:46]


The nice thing about a mistake is the pleasure it gives others.
User currently offlineScrubbsYWG From Canada, joined Mar 2007, 1495 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (6 years 8 months 1 week 1 hour ago) and read 6863 times:



Quoting Threepoint (Reply 15):

http://www.canada.com/montrealgazett...848-4ed2-944d-9cb3073aedfa&k=56735

schreiber recveived 8.8 million from airbus as commission for the 34 jets, or about 260k per aircraft. I wasn't talking about the money schreiber did or didn't give mulroney, i was just talking about the money he received from airbus.


25 Post contains links and images Viscount724 : DL inherited 7 A310-200s and 23 A310-300s from Pan Am. However the last 9 A310-300s were delivered new to DL in 1993 but I'm almost certain they had
26 Post contains images CAETravlr : Thanks for the post Viscount724... Very informative... I think the A310 actually looks pretty dashing in DL colors, but maybe that is just because I m
27 Thrust : I don't see Airbus being in a part of AA's future. THe A300 is the only Airbus aircraft and I would think AA is planning to get rid of them eventually
28 Threepoint : I didn't know that. Thank you.
29 Moo : Funnily, there are thousands of A300 movements a year where the rudder doesn't fall off. And I guarantee that a pilot can cause structural failure in
30 Threepoint : I will counter this. I think the pilot was as safe and professional as any airline pilot. The training and his reaction to a particular incident were
31 Thrust : Have to make a correction. I mistakenly assumed CO had already ordered the 773ER and 772LR already just because they were GE-powered like their 772ERs
32 Moo : Two of his previous pilots had given notice of events preceding the AA Flight 587 that showed him to have a tendency to over react to wake turbulence
33 AADEn : exactly, boeing though will give AA the deals to keep them a customer. AA doesn't need the multiple fleet types to add to their costs. It it ain't bo
34 Jetdeltamsy : I wouldn't be surprised to see an Airbus order from AA. Whichever company can come up with the best deal when it's time to sign on the dotted line is
35 Wdleiser : That Delta A300 looks awesome
36 Post contains images FXramper : Without wading through all the above posts - the relationship doesn't exist. You know how many lawyers Airbus sent over here when #587 slammed into Ja
37 Moo : You know how many lawyers Airbus sent to Toronto after the Air France A340 crash? Probably the same number. It means nothing.
38 FXramper : It meant everything at the time - AA said it was a defect in the Airbus 300 - specifically that a/c. Airbus said it was pilot error. Try reading the
39 Post contains links Buddys747 : I don't want to go too far off topic hear, I would disagree with your statement. He was a hot dog and dangerous pilot. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1
40 Bmacleod : WS seems to be in a position to sign exclusively with Boeing - though like WN they really have no reason to. I'm glad AC didn't sign exclusively with
41 Post contains links Threepoint : That indicates a lack of specific training, not a dangerous attitude or lack of flying skills. We can all agree that there was no malicious intent. T
42 Threepoint : What does that mean? Shouldn't any airline be in a position to sign exclusive deals with any manufacturer if they so choose?
43 FL787 : What does that mean? That they came up one short?
44 Cedarjet : I can see WS going Airbus. It's unlikely, but I would never have thought easyJet would do it, and lo and behold, it's very unusual to get a U2 737 the
45 AirEMS : How long were DL airbus's in service?? -Carl
46 SupraZachAir : Well, I had a lot of points to throw in to the Airbus vs. AA training procedures in unusual attitudes vs. "dangerous pilots" as well as the Fairchild
47 Molykote : I think some more vaild (realistic) comparisons might be the following: - What if a car accident results from exceeding the engine redline of his/her
48 Ebs757 : Well without making this even more complicated, look at it this way Either way, your f****d
49 Scbriml : No, how many did they send? AA would be cutting off their nose to spite their face if they simply ignored Airbus as a result of some perceived "bad b
50 Post contains images A350XWB : I've been on dozens LH A300 flights technically delay. Maybe some airlines have to upgrade their maintenance skills?
51 Francoflier : No, it's like building a car that'll roll over if you hard-steer to the right after having hard-steered to the left, which, incidentally, is what wil
52 Moo : I have already read all sorts of stuff on what happened - the fact remains that Airbus sending lawyers means nothing, as it gets done in every single
53 Molykote : Although I wouldn't want to lose a wheel, blow and engine, or rupture a tire, I consider the 2 examples that I have provided to be characteristically
54 Post contains links A342 : I'm sorry, you're wrong. Just compare the payload-range charts of both aircraft at full payload. A310-300, 164 tonne MTOW, pages 68/69: http://www.co
55 Ebs757 : I love how a bunch of grown men are taking offense to what a 16 year old has to say...[Edited 2008-01-01 11:23:47]
56 MSYtristar : I have never seen the A313 operate anything longer than Western Europe - U.S (and not anything past ORD) nonstop. I'm sure there have been exceptions
57 A342 : It doesn't have to swim, quite simple.
58 Post contains links and images Viscount724 : Canadian carrier Wardair operated their dozen or so A310-300s on routes as long as YVR/YYC/YEG-LGW. YVR-LGW is 4126 nm, about 700 nm further than ORD
59 Trex8 : airlines buy what is good for their bottom line. AA and DAC were mad at each other after the DC10 at ORD, didn't stop AA later ordering how many MD80s
60 Threepoint : Not necessarily, no. It may simply be an oversight on the part of the airline (as was addressed in the recommendations) or the manufacturer, or both.
Top Of Page
Forum Index

This topic is archived and can not be replied to any more.

Printer friendly format

Similar topics:More similar topics...
What Is Up With Airbus Cancelling A380 Flights? posted Mon May 1 2006 20:09:54 by RootsAir
IC Signs Up With Airbus.... Finally! posted Fri Dec 16 2005 13:49:59 by Cricket
AC's Future Relationship With US/HP posted Thu Oct 6 2005 06:47:39 by 9252fly
Branson Has Win-Win A380 Deal With Airbus posted Wed Jan 19 2005 18:11:55 by DIA
Virgin Nigeria (VNA) Negotiates With Airbus/Boeing posted Mon Jan 17 2005 07:26:00 by EurostarVA
VS Finalizes Order Of 13 A346 With Airbus posted Tue Dec 21 2004 00:41:43 by Sjoerd
Indian Sticks With Airbus (after Further Review) posted Wed Oct 13 2004 19:54:56 by Hz747300
Boeing Trying To Avoid Spat With Airbus posted Thu Sep 23 2004 16:22:39 by Nyc777
Cebu Pacific Finalising Deal With Airbus For A319s posted Mon Jul 26 2004 11:47:12 by 777ER
Niki In Talks With Airbus (70 Orders) posted Thu Jul 22 2004 08:45:36 by PUnmuth@VIE