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More L1011s In Pax Service Than DC10s - Finally...  
User currently offlineDIA From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 3273 posts, RR: 27
Posted (6 years 8 months 3 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 9536 times:

If I'm not mistaken (and I know I'll be corrected swiftly), I think for the first time (and I guess it has been a while now) there are more L1011s in pax service than DC10s...worldwide. I don't have the facts or figures, but it seems with Orient Thai...this is now the way things stand. Has ATA dumped all their L10s? I figured that there is only the ATA, World, and Omni DC10s in pax service left over. No?

Another thought of mine:

Why is it that the L1011 never made a good cargo liner? This a tech question?


Happy New Year everyone...


Ding! You are now free to keep supporting Frontier.
50 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineKC135TopBoom From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 12146 posts, RR: 51
Reply 1, posted (6 years 8 months 3 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 9505 times:



Quoting DIA (Thread starter):
Has ATA dumped all their L10s?

No, TZ still flys 3 L-1011s.

If the L-1011 finally has more pax jets than the DC-10, it is only by one or two airplanes. That will change again as TZ retires their remaining L-1011s to the desert.

Quoting DIA (Thread starter):
If I'm not mistaken (and I know I'll be corrected swiftly), I think for the first time (and I guess it has been a while now) there are more L1011s in pax service than DC10s...worldwide.

IIRC, in 1970-1971, the L-1011 had more airplanes flying than the DC-10 did. Of course it also happened again during the great DC-10 grounding of 1979 and 1980.


User currently offlineUnited_Fan From United States of America, joined Nov 2000, 7496 posts, RR: 7
Reply 2, posted (6 years 8 months 3 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 9478 times:

What about Biman? They still flying the -10?


'Empathy was yesterday...Today, you're wasting my Mother-F'ing time' - Heat.
User currently offlineDIA From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 3273 posts, RR: 27
Reply 3, posted (6 years 8 months 3 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 9451 times:



Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 1):
IIRC, in 1970-1971, the L-1011 had more airplanes flying than the DC-10 did. Of course it also happened again during the great DC-10 grounding of 1979 and 1980.

Nice catch...(note to self...don't play L1011 trivia with KC)

Quoting United_Fan (Reply 2):
What about Biman? They still flying the -10?

You are correct...they are still flying it. another good catch.



Ding! You are now free to keep supporting Frontier.
User currently offlineViasa From Switzerland, joined Jun 2005, 1880 posts, RR: 6
Reply 4, posted (6 years 8 months 3 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 9212 times:

I think that there are 13 L1011 (pax) and 13 DC-10 (pax) in service at the moment...

L1011:
Air Charter Express (1)
Air Universal (1)
Aircraft Machinery Works Tchad (1)
ATA Airlines (3)
Euroatlantic Airways (1)
HBA - Hewa Bora Airways (1, not sure)
Kallat Elsaker Air (2)
Luzair (1)
Sky Gate Intl Aviation (2)

DC-10:
ATA Airlines (4, soon 2 more)
Biman Bangladesh Airlines (4)
Global Aviation Operations (1)
Omni Air Intl (3)
World Airways (1, soon 1 more)


User currently offlineMSYtristar From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 6570 posts, RR: 50
Reply 5, posted (6 years 8 months 3 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 9179 times:



Quoting Viasa (Reply 4):
I think that there are 13 L1011 (pax) and 13 DC-10 (pax) in service at the moment

And believe me I would pay good $$$ to catch a ride on another L1011.


User currently offlineUK_Dispatcher From United Arab Emirates, joined Dec 2001, 2595 posts, RR: 29
Reply 6, posted (6 years 8 months 3 weeks ago) and read 9143 times:



Quoting Viasa (Reply 4):
L1011:
Air Charter Express (1)
Air Universal (1)
Aircraft Machinery Works Tchad (1)
ATA Airlines (3)
Euroatlantic Airways (1)
HBA - Hewa Bora Airways (1, not sure)
Kallat Elsaker Air (2)
Luzair (1)
Sky Gate Intl Aviation (2)

The EuroAtlantic aircraft has been stored at AUH gathering sand for a few months now, but there are rumours that it may still fly again. I would also question whether the Air Universal and Hewa Bora ones are still flying, though.


User currently offlineXtoler From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 953 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (6 years 8 months 3 weeks ago) and read 9143 times:

I didn't know ATA started flying the -10's. I'm surprised to see them fly at all except for AMC charters. Also, didn't World Airways fly nothing but -10's for a while? I've seen my share of those, and even rode the World "cattlecar" once.

Just a shame not to see many, if any L1011's flying around the States.

Quoting DIA (Thread starter):
Why is it that the L1011 never made a good cargo liner?

Good question. I'm not sure if they made a good cargo version or not. Seemed like the RAF liked them for multipurpose cargo, refueling, and troop carrier. I think the DC10 (or in my experience KC10) had a little better capacity. Off the top of my head I did see a couple cargo L1011's from Tradewinds when I would overnight in GSO. But, they weren't flying. With empty engine cowlings, I guess they were in glider mode.



EMB145 F/A, F/E, J41 F/A, F/E, because my wife clipped my wings, armchair captain
User currently offlineViasa From Switzerland, joined Jun 2005, 1880 posts, RR: 6
Reply 8, posted (6 years 8 months 3 weeks ago) and read 9135 times:

Oh... there is also TL-ADW of Privilege Jet Airlines...

User currently offlineAA61Hvy From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 13977 posts, RR: 57
Reply 9, posted (6 years 8 months 3 weeks ago) and read 9101 times:

I saw an ATA DC-10 land at LAX on Sunday when I was at In N Out... Then saw it depart the following morning.


Go big or go home
User currently offlineAirbusA6 From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2005, 2013 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (6 years 8 months 3 weeks ago) and read 9100 times:



Quoting Xtoler (Reply 7):
Good question. I'm not sure if they made a good cargo version or not. Seemed like the RAF liked them for multipurpose cargo, refueling, and troop carrier

With the RAF operating L1011s and VC10s, I must sign up for a couple of weeks  Smile Maybe they'll keep their new A330s for 40 years and become the last operator of that type as well!

Do any other airforces operate the L1011?



it's the bus to stansted (now renamed national express a4 to ruin my username)
User currently offlineRikkus67 From Canada, joined Jun 2000, 1646 posts, RR: 1
Reply 11, posted (6 years 8 months 3 weeks ago) and read 9014 times:

I always loved the more esthetic tail of the L1011 over the DC-10/MD-11...however I'd still love a ride on either!!

Nothing more enjoyable than the distinct sound of the RR engines whining overhead when the RAF L1011's visit YYC (RAF uses "Canadian Forces Base-Suffield" as a major training centre outside of the UK). I miss seeing Air Canada and Air Transat L1011's here.



AC.WA.CP.DL.RW.CO.WG.WJ.WN.KI.FL.SK.ACL.UA.US.F9
User currently offlineXtoler From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 953 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (6 years 8 months 3 weeks ago) and read 8975 times:



Quoting AirbusA6 (Reply 10):
Do any other airforces operate the L1011?

For some reason, I thought Saudi Arabia used them, but I checked a couple of sites and two of them were used as DV service. I can't find any other air force other than ya'll to use them. I'm just glad I was lucky enough to go TDY to RAF Brize-Norton during Desert Shield to work with my RAF counterparts. And occassionally, back at MHZ we did get VC-10's. On my days off, I spent a lot of time in Cambridge (usually to party or take the train somewhere), but I always wondered what the deal was with all these L1011's landing at that small airport. The MOD's at work and the spotters I knew told me that's where they retrofit them for RAF service, among other things.

We'll see how long they use the A330's. You know the military, they'll stretch an airframe out as long as possible. I do miss my 141's though. Yes, I do miss the L1011. They were a nice ride.



EMB145 F/A, F/E, J41 F/A, F/E, because my wife clipped my wings, armchair captain
User currently offlineTZTriStar500 From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 1452 posts, RR: 8
Reply 13, posted (6 years 8 months 3 weeks ago) and read 8953 times:



Quoting Viasa (Reply 4):
DC-10:
ATA Airlines (4, soon 2 more)
Biman Bangladesh Airlines (4)
Global Aviation Operations (1)
Omni Air Intl (3)
World Airways (1, soon 1 more)

Not sure where you got this from, but ATA will be adding at least 1 about mid year and maybe another late year. Omni has 9 active not 3 and World will be adding 3 more for a total of 4 for them. Anyway you look at it, there still will be about twice as many pax DC-10s in-service versus pax L-1011s if one is talking about civil airline type service only.



35 years of American Trans Air/ATA Airlines, 1973-2008. A great little airline that will not be soon forgotten.
User currently offlineIrobertson From Canada, joined Apr 2006, 601 posts, RR: 3
Reply 14, posted (6 years 8 months 2 weeks 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 8917 times:

What's happened to this aircraft?


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Spencer Wilmot



HZ-HM5 (cn 193G-1250) - last photograph below April 18, 2004:


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Laurent FAURE



Looks to be in pretty good condition as of almost four years ago, but god knows what's happened to it since... Love the L1011...


User currently offlineTZTriStar500 From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 1452 posts, RR: 8
Reply 15, posted (6 years 8 months 2 weeks 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 8842 times:



Quoting Irobertson (Reply 14):
HZ-HM5 (cn 193G-1250) - last photograph below April 18, 2004:

She has been sold as N389LS to Las Vegas Sands Corp. along with HZ-HM6 (S/N 293A-1249) as N388LS. 388 is getting an interior refit at King Aerospace in ADM while I believe 389 is still stored in Riyadh.



35 years of American Trans Air/ATA Airlines, 1973-2008. A great little airline that will not be soon forgotten.
User currently offline474218 From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 6340 posts, RR: 9
Reply 16, posted (6 years 8 months 2 weeks 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 8038 times:



Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 1):
IIRC, in 1970-1971, the L-1011 had more airplanes flying than the DC-10 did. Of course it also happened again during the great DC-10 grounding of 1979 and 1980.

By end of December 1971 Lockheed was flying four (4) L-1011's in their flight test program. Douglas at the same time had produced and was flying ten (10) DC-10's.


User currently offlineTAN FLYR From United States of America, joined Aug 2000, 1908 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (6 years 8 months 2 weeks 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 7894 times:



Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 1):
IIRC, in 1970-1971, the L-1011 had more airplanes flying than the DC-10 did. Of course it also happened again during the great DC-10 grounding of 1979 and 1980.

Just for the record, the grounding of DC- 10's was from June 6- July 13, 1979 when FAA Adm. Langhorne Bond lifted the ban Or actually reinstated the certificate for the DC-10.


User currently offlineHOOB747 From United States of America, joined Nov 2006, 446 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (6 years 8 months 2 weeks 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 7476 times:



Quoting TAN FLYR (Reply 17):
Just for the record, the grounding of DC- 10's was from June 6- July 13, 1979 when FAA Adm. Langhorne Bond lifted the ban Or actually reinstated the certificate for the DC-10

Saw him on T.V. after the '79 O'Hare DC-10 crash, and man, what a bureaucrat! Totally unprepared for the tragedy at his feet.



747 Number One Fan from U.S.A
User currently offlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 25332 posts, RR: 22
Reply 19, posted (6 years 8 months 2 weeks 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 7358 times:



Quoting Irobertson (Reply 14):
HZ-HM5 (cn 193G-1250) - last photograph below April 18, 2004.Looks to be in pretty good condition as of almost four years ago

It should be in good condition considering that it was the last L1011 built, first flight October 1983. It's also the only L1011 that never operated in airline service. Spent it's entire life as a VIP aircraft, the first few years with the Algerian government and from 1989 until recently as part of the Saudi VIP fleet. I would guess that it has the fewest flying hours of any L1011.


User currently offlineTrijetsRMissed From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 2353 posts, RR: 7
Reply 20, posted (6 years 8 months 2 weeks 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 7341 times:



Quoting DIA (Thread starter):
Why is it that the L1011 never made a good cargo liner?

The Tristar has always lacked behind the DC-10 in payload capacity. And by the time the L-1011 freighter conversions might have been in demand, the type was already out of service for a decade. Add scarcity of parts and a lack of range and the DC-10 was overall the better option.

Quoting MSYtristar (Reply 5):
And believe me I would pay good $$$ to catch a ride on another L1011.

I'm right there with you and I'm sure we're not alone!



There's nothing quite like a tri-jet.
User currently offlineGeorgeJetson From Bulgaria, joined Jun 2007, 169 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (6 years 8 months 2 weeks 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 7302 times:



Quoting DIA (Thread starter):
Why is it that the L1011 never made a good cargo liner? This a tech question?

A few years ago, at least a couple of airlines operated cargo TriStars including Fine Air and Arrow Air. However, if I understand this correctly, Fine Air bought Arrow Air, and then a few years later Arrow Air bought Fine Air and I have no idea how they did that! All their cargo L-1011s were phased out in favor of cargo DC-10s. I remember seeing an ex-Arrow Air TriStar still parked at the hangars at MIA not too long ago. One of its engines was damaged by one of the recent hurricanes.



Meet George Jetson
User currently offlinePM From Germany, joined Feb 2005, 6918 posts, RR: 63
Reply 22, posted (6 years 8 months 2 weeks 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 7164 times:



Quoting Xtoler (Reply 12):
Cambridge [...] I always wondered what the deal was with all these L1011's landing at that small airport.

Marshall Aerospace (based at Cambridge) converted the pax TriStars to tankers. They're specialists in that kind of thing. I forget the details but the first two or three AA MD11s came to Cambridge before delivery for some tinkering.

http://www.marshallaerospace.com

As for the main thread, I'm amazed that there are so few pax DC10s left. And as for the TriStar, it remains an all-time favourite of mine. Happily I snagged a few L1011 flights on Delta and British Airtours. But my best memories are of seeing Court TriStars at Luton and watching one (the first?) at Farnborough in, I think, 1974.

Long may they last. But they won't...  Sad


User currently offlineLemonKitty From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 130 posts, RR: 9
Reply 23, posted (6 years 8 months 2 weeks 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 7068 times:
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Now you had to go and do it..Hehhee..All this L-1011 talk got me to look at some of my old Eastern timetables showing the great L-1011 in service...Found an Eastern timetable dated September 6, 1978...Talk about some odd Eastern L-1011 routes..I found L-1011 service from Houston to San Antonio!! It was a daily flight too..Flight 59 left Houston at 9:50pm and arrived in San Antonio at 10:35pm. Further research shows this aircraft originated at BOS and was routed BOS-JFK-IAH-SAT. The aircraft turned the next day as flight 64 routed SAT-IAH-JFK-BOS. Any other odd routes that L-1011's flew?

LK



I met my wife on Airliners.Net!!!!
User currently offline474218 From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 6340 posts, RR: 9
Reply 24, posted (6 years 8 months 2 weeks 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 7019 times:



Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 19):
It should be in good condition considering that it was the last L1011 built, first flight October 1983. It's also the only L1011 that never operated in airline service. Spent it's entire life as a VIP aircraft, the first few years with the Algerian government and from 1989 until recently as part of the Saudi VIP fleet. I would guess that it has the fewest flying hours of any L1011.

L-1011's s/n 1001 and s/n 1247 also never flew in airline service. s/n 1001 was the house flight test aircraft. Currently the forward fuselage and flight station are used a gift shop at the Delta Airlines history museum. s/n 1247 was outfitted with a VIP interior and operated buy King Hussein of Jordan from 1884 until his passing in 1999.

You are correct that s/n 1250 is the L-1011 with the fewest hours and cycles, at the end of July 2007 it had 4,803 cycles and 12,714 hours.


25 Post contains images Leezyjet : Blimey, I never knew they made a time machine out of an L10-11 too. Certainly more luxurious than that De-Lorean in Back To The Future or that Police
26 Brenintw : I think at least one is still flying -- I saw it in JNB in August/Sept when I went home for a short visit.
27 Wjcandee : What happened to the Al-Anwa L1011? Is it still flying? Does it "count" as flying in passenger service, in this little poll?
28 Post contains links and images LTU932 : And King Hussein really loved to show off sometimes. View Large View MediumPhoto © Erik SleutelbergWhen I heard for the first time that King Hus
29 474218 : They have two s/n 1195 and s/n 1247, both have VIP interiors and similar paint schemes and both are in storage, one in the UAE and one in France.
30 Cschleic : I once flew a Delta one LAX - San Diego just for the ride when I was a kid. The return to LAX was on an American 707! TWA also flew L-1011's SFO - LA
31 Je89_w : Yep, that might be the one going to HNL as TZ4755/TZ4754. HNL is suddenly getting all these ATA DC-10s (Japan charters too!), which is a nice change.
32 Max Q : King Hussein was trained and received his wings from the RAF and was a lifelong aviation enthusiast to the very end. A great and underrated world lead
33 Cschleic : I think I meant Thai Sky, but no website comes up, so.....they're gone?
34 A40-TY : CS-TEB (of EuroAtlantic) is due to re-enter service next month following heavy maintenance in GAMCO (ADAT). Who knows what will happen to the remainin
35 N27uadiesel8 : Hi GeorgeJetson: You are correct Fine Air bought out Arrow Air and once We landed In CH11 Bankruptcy, we were bought out by a few former Arrow Air Ex
36 Flighty : Those same airplanes have been visiting HNL for 30 plus years, but I get your point.
37 JD747 : And I have always thought the opposite way, loving the more clean design of the DC-10/MD-11 tail over the "thick" and more complicated L1011 tail. An
38 PlanenutzTB : Where dose ATA fly these 3 L1011's? I would love to fly a Tristar again. During the 90's I was a FF on Delta and flew 1000's of miles on L1011, inclu
39 Clydenairways : I also recall reading an article about Fine or Arrow air which stated the dispatch reliability was terrible, something like 75% which is really bad.
40 Baguy : Does Air Atlanta Icelandic not have one anymore? About 5 years ago I flew one back from FAO, our ZB 757 went techie! (It was a nice flight, plenty of
41 Post contains images Revelation : I guess those royals get around! Yep, King Hussein was not like a lot of the royals. He was also an active Amateur Radio operator. Wikipedia says:
42 Aero145 : Because this is a DC-10/L-1011 thread, I have to ask those two questions: · How many L-1011's are flying in the world? I know the UK air force has
43 ORDagent : It is shocking to me that the DC-10 and L10-11 are disappearing. It makes me feel old particularly since I'm going to be 40 next week! I used to dispa
44 BuyantUkhaa : Whata about the second Luzair plane that came back from AMS? And the L1011 flown by Yes/White?
45 Viscount724 : And coincidentally, his US-born widow (Queen Noor, his 4th wife, born Lisa Halaby) is the daughter of Najeeb Halaby who was CEO of Pan Am 1969-72 and
46 TZTriStar500 : The one in UAE, s/n 1195 I believe, has no interior and is out of heavy check time, but I heard they are considering D checking it in the US and inst
47 Max Q : Very interesting Viscount 724, thanks for the information.
48 474218 : Kristine: You do know one (1) of the 2 dozen L-1011's still carrying passengers is s/n 1230 N194AT. Its been flying Hajj flights out of Nigeria still
49 Alessandro : Don´t RAF run one to the Ascension island? Which you can get a ride on, limited seats availble for civilians and island inhabitants have first go?
50 PennPal : Eastern also flew Miami-Ft Lauderdale and Buffalo-Toronto routes with TriStars. I remember reading in an aviation magazine that, from time to time, p
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