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Why No Cameras In Aircraft Cabins?  
User currently offlineVTMAA From India, joined Oct 2006, 108 posts, RR: 0
Posted (6 years 6 months 3 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 9089 times:

I was just wondering why are there no camera's in aircraft cabins? it could serve several purposes
1. Safety and Security - Potentially send images directly to ground during issues or emergencies etc
2. Customer Service - Airlines could use this to train F/A's or help identify problem areas and use this for future training
etc.

Not sure if there is a privacy issue but the technology is available I would think.

What are your thoughts?

47 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineTonyban From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 342 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (6 years 6 months 3 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 9052 times:

VTMAA....excellent thought....I think cost might be an issue now a days....

User currently offlineVTMAA From India, joined Oct 2006, 108 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (6 years 6 months 3 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 8993 times:

Thanks Tonyban..
What do you think the cost would be for a system that captures, records, transmits (when needed).

take a 3 class 747 for example
Cameras - 1 is FC, 2 in Biz , 4-6 in Economy, 1 upper deck = 8-10 total
+
Recording equipment
+
+
+

...... i see your point!
But if you were to guess for a 747 what would it be? - high/low $10000's or $100000's


User currently offlineThorben From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (6 years 6 months 3 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 8963 times:

I think they might exist in some airplanes, or at least in parts of some airplanes.

However, I dislike being videotaped or being watched without knowing who is watching or not, so I think the whole idea belongs to the garbage can.


User currently offlinePreelude From Canada, joined Dec 2006, 17 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (6 years 6 months 3 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 8929 times:

It cannot be too pricey since they have surveilance systems on our local transit system, as long as it gets recorded in a blackbox. Transmiting it live to a recording device on ground is where price might become a problem.

User currently offlineSwiftski From Australia, joined Dec 2006, 2701 posts, RR: 2
Reply 5, posted (6 years 6 months 3 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 8896 times:

Dragonair have cameras in the 330s

I don't know about any others.


User currently offlineVTMAA From India, joined Oct 2006, 108 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (6 years 6 months 3 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 8883 times:



Quoting Preelude (Reply 4):
Transmiting it live to a recording device on ground is where price might become a problem.

I would think in a normal flight scenario a blackbox might suffice, but in case of emergency possibility of transmitting live would be helpful.


User currently offlineHAWK21M From India, joined Jan 2001, 31667 posts, RR: 56
Reply 7, posted (6 years 6 months 3 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 8845 times:

When Incorporating a Visual CVR was rejected by Crew stating invasion of privacy.......

regds
MEL



Think of the brighter side!
User currently offlineKaitak From Ireland, joined Aug 1999, 12407 posts, RR: 37
Reply 8, posted (6 years 6 months 3 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 8743 times:

Many airlines have actually introduced them since 9/11; JetBlue and BA, being two; the cameras give flight crews the ability to see anyone trying to enter the cockpit, although I think - being a single aisle, single class aircraft (i.e. no dividing curtain), the camera on the A320s can see down the whole aisle of the aircraft.

I'm sure the likes of LY and other US carriers are equipped with cameras. There may actually be a lot more than you think!


User currently offlineMcamargo From United States of America, joined Mar 2007, 129 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (6 years 6 months 3 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 8724 times:

I swear I saw them on quite a few Continental Express ERJs operated by Chautauqua. Always creeped me out a bit when I sat on 1A/2A... I felt as if the camera was staring right at me


I live for the day mainline returns to BRO...
User currently offlineJettaKnight From United States of America, joined Feb 2007, 195 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (6 years 6 months 3 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 8552 times:



Quoting Thorben (Reply 3):
dislike being videotaped or being watched without knowing who is watching or not



Quoting Mcamargo (Reply 9):
Always creeped me out a bit when I sat on 1A/2A... I felt as if the camera was staring right at me

I guess I have a different perspective. If anyone is even monitoring these cameras, the chances that they're taking any specific interest in my activities is pretty remote.

Of course, my attitude will change when a video of me picking my nose shows up on YouTube.


User currently offlineGr8Circle From Canada, joined Dec 2005, 3092 posts, RR: 4
Reply 11, posted (6 years 6 months 3 weeks 1 day ago) and read 8407 times:



Quoting Mcamargo (Reply 9):
Always creeped me out a bit when I sat on 1A/2A... I felt as if the camera was staring right at me

You sure it wasn't a cold air vent...?  Big grin


User currently offlineFiveholer From United States of America, joined Jun 1999, 1013 posts, RR: 15
Reply 12, posted (6 years 6 months 3 weeks 1 day ago) and read 8380 times:



Quoting Mcamargo (Reply 9):
I swear I saw them on quite a few Continental Express ERJs operated by Chautauqua. Always creeped me out a bit when I sat on 1A/2A... I felt as if the camera was staring right at me

I was gonna say, on our Chautauqua RON aircraft it seems there are cameras on the 2 fore bulkheads.

Danny



Bring back Bethune!
User currently offlineSh0rtybr0wn From United States of America, joined Aug 2007, 528 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (6 years 6 months 3 weeks 1 day ago) and read 8341 times:

God, Please no. I don't want to live in more of a police state. I think its against the Geneva Conventions too.

Whatever happens in an airplane cabin there's always dozens of witnesses, so why is there even a need for a camera?


User currently offline57AZ From United States of America, joined Nov 2004, 2550 posts, RR: 2
Reply 14, posted (6 years 6 months 3 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 8297 times:



Quoting Sh0rtybr0wn (Reply 13):
Whatever happens in an airplane cabin there's always dozens of witnesses, so why is there even a need for a camera?

People are humans. Humans do make mistakes when under pressure.

Quoting Preelude (Reply 4):
It cannot be too pricey since they have surveilance systems on our local transit system, as long as it gets recorded in a blackbox.

Depends. The better units are pretty complex and require support hardware and software. Thus supporting such a system for an airline could be pretty expensive once you figure in cost to acquire and fit hardware on the planes, cost of training ground staff at each station to download and transmit data, etc. Even the systems on your average city bus are pretty complex compared to the low end CCTV used in convienance stores. For example, the Charlotte, NC light rail vehicles have several cameras that are continually recording to a central onboard computer. The computer's memory is partitioned, allowing for video to be recorded and safeguarded from being overwritten. The Risk Management Department has laptops with software which allows them to create a datalink with the tram's onboard computer and download data from the onboard unit. All said, you're looking at something like $10k per unit. For a public agency, that's quite a bit of necessary spending.



"When a man runs on railroads over half of his lifetime he is fit for nothing else-and at times he don't know that."
User currently offlineJhooper From United States of America, joined Dec 2001, 6202 posts, RR: 12
Reply 15, posted (6 years 6 months 3 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 8195 times:

Cameras are perfectly legal on U.S. airlines (at least the ones I've flown on recently)


Last year 1,944 New Yorkers saw something and said something.
User currently offlineDavidYYC From Canada, joined Sep 2004, 238 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (6 years 6 months 3 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 8117 times:

Not much diiference beteween this and all the CCTV cameras that dot the city of London streets and Stations. I really dont have a problem, if you've got nothing to hide, and not doing anything wrong, what is the big deal? I really dont care if a crew member (or whoever) spends their time watching me eat, drink, read, look out the window or even catch me scrathing my neteher regions; I am sure it will get boring after some time, and if it can be used for the safety of our travel, thats OK!

User currently offlineExpressJet_ERJ From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 833 posts, RR: 4
Reply 17, posted (6 years 6 months 3 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 8116 times:



Quoting Mcamargo (Reply 9):
I swear I saw them on quite a few Continental Express ERJs operated by Chautauqua. Always creeped me out a bit when I sat on 1A/2A... I felt as if the camera was staring right at me

Dont worry, they are all deactivated. We wont look at you any more.



ETOPS...Engines Turn Or People Swim
User currently offlineTopGun757 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (6 years 6 months 3 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 8023 times:

Jetblue has cameras in all the A320 aircraft for sure. As for the E190's i'm not sure.

User currently offlineHPAEAA From United States of America, joined May 2006, 1024 posts, RR: 2
Reply 19, posted (6 years 6 months 3 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 7975 times:



Quoting Preelude (Reply 4):
It cannot be too pricey since they have surveilance systems on our local transit system, as long as it gets recorded in a blackbox. Transmiting it live to a recording device on ground is where price might become a problem.

that's the Key... Local Transit trains can bounce signals via Radio networks or Cellular networks, which is pretty cheap since they have to have them setup anyways to let the trains communicate with dispatch... Airplanes however... suffice it to say, it's a lot more expensive... plus the below...

Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 7):
When Incorporating a Visual CVR was rejected by Crew stating invasion of privacy.......

I think alot of pax would have an objection too, I'm pretty sure existing cameras don't record, only provide the pilots a view as to what's going on (like a mirror)... helps with safety, and protects privacy...



Why do I fly???
User currently offlineLincoln From United States of America, joined Nov 2004, 3887 posts, RR: 8
Reply 20, posted (6 years 6 months 3 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 7887 times:



Quoting Preelude (Reply 4):
It cannot be too pricey since they have surveilance systems on our local transit system, as long as it gets recorded in a blackbox

I don't know that this is a univeral truth, but just because the box is there doesn't mean that there's a camera in the box. (or that anything's recording) -- back when I was in grade school, all of the busses in the district's fleet (40-50 full size, and another 10 or so small) had these 'busvision' boxes in them. All had a blinking red light and one-way-mirror-looking window. My sources in district mantinance, told me that there were only 4 actual camera/recording units for the district, and they were randomly assigned to buses on a weekly basis [week one busses 1, 6, 24, and 32 may have cameras, week two that may be 5, 24, 50, and 10]...very few people (not even the driver) knew if a real camera was on the bus or not.

I think all of Cleveland RTA's 'trollies' have four camera security systems on board, I don't know about real busses. I doubt they're monitored live, and instead the drive on the bus is pulled if there's accident/incident/complaint/crime report filed -- that's certainly significantly more economical, and in the case of a moving bus I'm not really sure there's any advantage to live monitoring -- supose someone in the monitoring center were to see something going on... by the time they can pinpoint the bus's location, and either dispatch local PD or their own police it will be too late to _prevent_ the crime... instead it's evidence, and does it really matter where that evidence is captured.

Lincoln



CO Is My Airline of Choice || Baggage Claim is an airline's last chance to disappoint a customer || Next flts in profile
User currently offlineJetdeltamsy From United States of America, joined Nov 2000, 2987 posts, RR: 8
Reply 21, posted (6 years 6 months 3 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 7678 times:



Quoting VTMAA (Reply 6):
but in case of emergency possibility of transmitting live would be helpful.

How so? I'm curious to know how you think a live camera in an airborne aircraft would be helpful in an emergency.



Tired of airline bankruptcies....EA/PA/TW and finally DL.
User currently offlineDavidYYC From Canada, joined Sep 2004, 238 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (6 years 6 months 3 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 7432 times:



Quoting Jetdeltamsy (Reply 21):
How so? I'm curious to know how you think a live camera in an airborne aircraft would be helpful in an emergency.

Perhaps someone trying to light something in his shoes?! That kind of emergency, surely? Also if the expensive option is being used with images being transmitted down to ground then accident investigations become tha much easier.


User currently offline57AZ From United States of America, joined Nov 2004, 2550 posts, RR: 2
Reply 23, posted (6 years 6 months 3 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 7360 times:



Quoting Lincoln (Reply 20):
I think all of Cleveland RTA's 'trollies' have four camera security systems on board, I don't know about real busses. I doubt they're monitored live, and instead the drive on the bus is pulled if there's accident/incident/complaint/crime report filed

No, they're not monitored. In fact, on most rail transit systems not even the station cameras are continually monitored. Generally speaking, they will randomly monitor different cameras and will not monitor a specific location unless alerted to an incident via train operator or station attendant. Up in Pittsburgh, the Port Authority employs cctv cameras at all of their light rail stations. Each camera can pan and zoom and is capable of being monitored live from their advanced Dispatch Center at South Hills Village-that much I know because I've visited the facility in person and seen these features demonstrated.

Here in Tucson, all of Sun Tran's coaches have been fitted with on board cameras at one time or another. Some of the older coaches that will be leaving the fleet soon have had the cameras removed (you can see where the housings were once attached). Of course, for buses you can do virtually anything that you want if you have the funding. Sun Tran uses TransitMaster which is capable of sending ACARS style messages to drivers instantaneously. This is useful when you don't want certain information transmitted over the two way radio. It also allows the dispatchers to track each coach's position real time via computer and GPS. Thus if a coach has a breakdown or is involved in an incident, the dispatcher can locate it even if the driver is incapacitated or otherwise occupied.



"When a man runs on railroads over half of his lifetime he is fit for nothing else-and at times he don't know that."
User currently offlineChgoflyer From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 622 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (6 years 6 months 3 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 7331 times:

They have cameras on the subways here in Chicago.... why not put them on airplanes its the same sort of travel.


Will someone please wake me up in 4 years
25 Lincoln : Yes, but: The chances of that actually being useful are predicated upon: (a) That there is a camera that can capture this in it's field of view (whic
26 Jwenting : weight. Again that 747 with 10 cams. The cameras, wiring, transmitters, recording equipment, and cockpit screens will weigh in at several hundred kil
27 Maverick623 : As long as there's a notice that you are being recorded, you can be recorded. Almost every time you walk into an airport, store, or any other place o
28 Post contains images BlueWingWalker : B6 has 4 cameras in the cabin of all it's A320's. 2 in the front Galley, and 2 in the back galley. The E190's do not have cameras (even though there's
29 Zkpilot : I take it that you are talking about CCTV type cameras rather than personal cameras? If you are talking about personal cameras, they are allowed in t
30 Thorben : One of many problems with surveillance cameras. Why are you watched, then? I have something to hide. It is called "privacy".
31 HAWK21M : CCTv with recorded Mechanism can be used to playback after a Incident in the Cabin,like a highjacking. regds MEL
32 Jamesbaldwyn : Exactly, We're watched everywhere else (in public) we go nowadays anyway,
33 Fly2YYZ : Hmmm I'd also say with the amount of flights that are in the air at one point just for one airline, how much resources and capital will go into monito
34 HPAEAA : I'd like to keep a few safe havens.. airplanes, streets (aside from sec cams in stores and banks)... personal privacy is a good thing...
35 BRxxx : BR has one by L1 door looking at the cockpit door. Don't know about any others.
36 Post contains images LN-KGL : Isn't it wonderful to have a CCTV free zone? And now you want to ruin this too
37 Post contains images ATCtower : Geez, havent you ever seen Executive Decision? They just fly the F-117 right up under the belly of the plane and Steven Segal and his bunch of comman
38 HAWK21M : Recording Mechanism is Important for Review. regds MEL
39 Jetdeltamsy : Maybe we're on different planets here...but how would a camera help with a situation where someone was trying to light a shoe bomb? Do you really thi
40 DHR : More and more cabin security cameras will be rolled out on airlines as they upgrade their IFE systems as they are an optional extra to use its infrast
41 Thorben : One day we'll all have to fly naked, blindfolded and fettered, like it or not.
42 Post contains images ATCtower : What do you think SQ's A380 sex clause will be then?
43 VTMAA : Thanks for all your feedback and comments Good discussion
44 Analog : Oh no, somebody might watch them working. What are they doing in the cockpit that they don't want others to see? Drug tests and medicals are also an
45 Jimbobjoe : There just isn't a problem that they could solve. Surveillance cameras don't work well in tight environments with a lot of things to watch (such as a
46 FlyboyOz : I saw some photos that Ethiad A346/A345s have surveillance cameras inside the cabin. I think they are placed outside the flight deck's ceiling and fir
47 HAWK21M : Some Airlines have the Cabin/Galleys monitored by cctv from the flight deck. regds MEL
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