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New Zealand Aviation Thread #20 Happy New Year!  
User currently offline777ER From New Zealand, joined Dec 2003, 12289 posts, RR: 18
Posted (6 years 10 months 4 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 9300 times:
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Well guys and girls, we have made it to thread #20. A big thank you, for all your input to the last 19 threads, and especially thank you to ZKpilot for starting a few threads, when I couldn't due to me working in the USA. Happy new year.

In thread #19 New Zealand Aviation Thread #19 Merry Christmas! (by 777ER Dec 21 2007 in Civil Aviation) , we learnt and discussed:

- ETOPS for NZs twins
- New ASA for New Zealand the the Philippines
- Discussed Kiwijet, and their upcoming announcement next month. Also discussed what routes and aircrafts would work for them.
- QF offers $100,000 for six months work to NZ engineers
- FBI wants info on passengers scars and earlobes, for their fight against terrorists.
- Talked about NZ, QF and DJs fleet ability for aircraft changes at short notice
- Discussed NZs new uniforms.
- Talked about Rob Fyfe and his involvement with ITV Digital's failure in the UK.
- Had the usual talks about PPT, and abouts NZs long haul markets.
Last but not least, and possible what made me (and I'm sure many other readers/users on this thread) check to make sure its not a dream by pinching myself........
- Koruman has promised not to talk about PPT-LAX!!!

Let thread #20 begin

204 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineCchan From New Zealand, joined May 2003, 1762 posts, RR: 2
Reply 1, posted (6 years 10 months 4 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 9251 times:



Quoting 777ER (Thread starter):
Last but not least, and possible what made me (and I'm sure many other readers/users on this thread) check to make sure its not a dream by pinching myself........
- Koruman has promised not to talk about PPT-LAX!!!

That's the main highlight of thread 19.

Quoting 777ER (Reply 217):
The only reason why the A320s are operating more domestic right now, is due to a lack of B733s, but that will change once the extra B733s arrive. If the B737 works perfectly fine for domestic ops here, why should an airline bring in an Airbus when the Boeing does the job well? We all know that you don't like the 737s, but lets face it.......the 737s are going to be the main domestic aircraft here for ages, with little 320 services due to the extra 737s arriving for NZ, DJ and QF. Especially since NZ appears to be going boeing again for the 737 replacement, according to the latest rumors. I'm looking forward to the day QF replaces those B733/734s with B738s.

Looks like those 733s will stay for another 5+ years. The 738 is a bit too big for the NZ domestic market if all 3 airlines use them. I hope by the time NZ replaces the 733s, there will be a replacement model for the 737 line as a whole, so not 73G or 73H for NZ. How much more efficient is a 73G compared to a 733?

Amazingly, QF isn't participating in the domestic fare war now and their lowest AKL-WLG price stays at $69, while NZ and DJ goes down to $40 on some flights. Anyone has some stats on which of these 3 airlines has the fullest planes on average on the main trunk routes?


User currently offlineNZ1 From New Zealand, joined May 2004, 2270 posts, RR: 25
Reply 2, posted (6 years 10 months 4 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 9223 times:
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In response to the last thread, reply 205 from Cchan:

The A320's workload on domestic will reduce, but not disappear, as it works really well for repositioning aircraft for maintenance etc.

NZ1


User currently offline777ER From New Zealand, joined Dec 2003, 12289 posts, RR: 18
Reply 3, posted (6 years 10 months 4 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 9214 times:
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Quoting Cchan (Reply 1):
The 738 is a bit too big for the NZ domestic market if all 3 airlines use them

I doubt NZ would put the B738 on domestic, as yes its to big, even the A320 is too big. QF has got no other option, but to put B738 onto their routes here.


User currently offlineZkpilot From New Zealand, joined Mar 2006, 4846 posts, RR: 9
Reply 4, posted (6 years 10 months 4 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 9184 times:

Quoting George Bush (previous thread)
"Each state is different, but where I am from in Indiana the tax is $.32 per gallon. Thats a lot of taxes if you ask me. New Zealand is a socialist country therefore your used to paying for everyone else to live a similar life to you...

The US makes about 5% of its own fuel, the rest comes from overseas (S. America and the Mideast). Now if the environmentalist hippies would just let the US drill in Alaska and off the coast of California they could become 100% self sufficient on oil production and not only reduce the price of gas in the US but the world in general.

But we have some members of society who just don't understand economics unfortunately."
I would hardly call New Zealand a socialist country! Sure it has become slightly more so since Aunty/Uncle Helen took the reigns, but New Zealand is considerably more capitalist than most OECD countries. The US is just exceedingly capitalist which is its true weakness... there has to be a balance... capitalism is definantly better than socialism (ie communism as such) but there has to be some socialism to balance things slightly otherwise you have the social-economic trainwreck that is the USA (if it wasn't for its inherent wealth, size, location and resources the US would be a 3rd world nation as a large number of its citizens currently experience).

Quoting Rongotai (previous thread)
"In fact the average tax take on gas in the US is 0.62c per gallon - which scarcely counts as 'barely'." so divide that by about 4 and it comes out at 15c per litre.... in NZ it is about 80c per litre and in the UK and Europe it is about double that again! so when I say barely IMO that is an acurate representation...no?



56 types. 38 countries. 24 airlines.
User currently offlineCchan From New Zealand, joined May 2003, 1762 posts, RR: 2
Reply 5, posted (6 years 10 months 4 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 9178 times:



Quoting NZ1 (Reply 2):
The A320's workload on domestic will reduce, but not disappear, as it works really well for repositioning aircraft for maintenance etc.

That sounds like almost disappear, assuming the need for repositioning is not daily. I have noticed that the NZ domestic schedule in April don't have A320s, but not sure whether they have updated the April schedule yet.

Quoting 777ER (Reply 3):
QF has got no other option, but to put B738 onto their routes here.

They seem to have another option: keep using their 733 and 734 until they can't fly! Will QF stay in the NZ domestic game for long enough to see these older 737 replaced?

Quoting 777ER (Reply 3):
I doubt NZ would put the B738 on domestic, as yes its to big, even the A320 is too big.

Instead of having AKL-WLG 733 flights at 1800, 1830, 1900, would it be better to have 2x A320 or a 763 instead?


User currently offline777ER From New Zealand, joined Dec 2003, 12289 posts, RR: 18
Reply 6, posted (6 years 10 months 4 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 9171 times:
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Quoting Cchan (Reply 5):
Quoting 777ER (Reply 3):
QF has got no other option, but to put B738 onto their routes here.

They seem to have another option: keep using their 733 and 734 until they can't fly! Will QF stay in the NZ domestic game for long enough to see these older 737 replaced?

QF have said in their press release for their latest B738 order, that the B738s will replace ALL the remaining classics. The B734 is roughly the same size, and seats roughly the same amount of pax as the B738s.

Quoting Cchan (Reply 5):
Quoting 777ER (Reply 3):
I doubt NZ would put the B738 on domestic, as yes its to big, even the A320 is too big.

Instead of having AKL-WLG 733 flights at 1800, 1830, 1900, would it be better to have 2x A320 or a 763 instead?

So you can keep flying the A320s on domestic! NZ isn't going to reduce frequencys so it can put on a bigger aircraft and risk loosing customers to QF or DJ. It would'nt be better for NZ. Some flights NZ operate, they don't need, like I've seen some flights departing from WLG within 15 mins of each other, especially to CHC. One B733 could operate those two flights


User currently offlineRongotai From New Zealand, joined Sep 2000, 477 posts, RR: 2
Reply 7, posted (6 years 10 months 4 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 9167 times:



Quoting Cchan (Reply 5):
They seem to have another option: keep using their 733 and 734 until they can't fly! Will QF stay in the NZ domestic game for long enough to see these older 737 replaced?

Well they certainly aren't behaving like they are about to give up - starting up on WLG-CHC, lots of money upgrading QF Club, increased frequencies. Personally I'd be more inclined to bet on a shift to Jetstar.


User currently offlineCchan From New Zealand, joined May 2003, 1762 posts, RR: 2
Reply 8, posted (6 years 10 months 4 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 9052 times:



Quoting 777ER (Reply 6):
So you can keep flying the A320s on domestic!

That would be great, but I prefer the 763  Big grin There was a time when a 762 was doing AKL-CHC, I happened to get a seat in the business class section, there were quite a few passengers who got on, noticing it was a wide body and said wow! Of course, it won't be great for NZ to use 767s for every domestic flight, the investors won't be happy.

Quoting 777ER (Reply 6):
NZ isn't going to reduce frequencys so it can put on a bigger aircraft and risk loosing customers to QF or DJ.

QF and DJ don't have the frequency to capture these customers. Say, if NZ gets rid of the 1830 flight, the passengers will just go on the 1800 or 1900 flight. People who want cheap won't mind going half an hour earlier or later, and those who go with NZ will stay with NZ even if one flight is cancelled. I was on the 1830 flight some months ago, the flight was delayed and the 1900 flight took off before us. QF and DJ don't have a 1830 flight anyway. Wouldn't it be a more economical option to put more people on a single plane?

Quoting 777ER (Reply 6):
Some flights NZ operate, they don't need, like I've seen some flights departing from WLG within 15 mins of each other, especially to CHC. One B733 could operate those two flights

IMHO, the WLG-CHC flights aren't timed very well, there are flights that are very close in timing and then a big gap till the next one. The timings probably have something to do with repositioning aircrafts?

Quoting Rongotai (Reply 7):
Well they certainly aren't behaving like they are about to give up - starting up on WLG-CHC, lots of money upgrading QF Club, increased frequencies. Personally I'd be more inclined to bet on a shift to Jetstar.

That's what I think as well. When they need to renew their current 733 and 734, that's when either they'll pull out or Jetstar comes in.


User currently offlinePlanemanofnz From New Zealand, joined Sep 2005, 1676 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (6 years 10 months 4 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 9007 times:



Quoting Cchan (Reply 8):
That would be great, but I prefer the 763 There was a time when a 762 was doing AKL-CHC, I happened to get a seat in the business class section, there were quite a few passengers who got on, noticing it was a wide body and said wow! Of course, it won't be great for NZ to use 767s for every domestic flight, the investors won't be happy.

Unfortunately I think one cannot even get a seat on the 772 flights that go from CHC to AKL if you are a local passenger  Sad

No more widebody flights for us to use!

Quoting Cchan (Reply 8):
Jetstar

I don't really know about this one. Jetstar use high density A320 and soon A321's. Will they be able to fill up all of the seats when they offer a tight seat pitch, no IFE, no free food etc? DJ is slowly managing to do it for now, but, by the time JQ come here, fuel prices will be at a record high, and there will be no money to be made in carrying the tourists with NZ and DJ as competition.

This year hopefully QF will do better on domestic routes as they introduce the Cityflyer brand here.


User currently offlineDJ738 From New Zealand, joined Jun 2005, 410 posts, RR: 1
Reply 10, posted (6 years 10 months 4 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 8979 times:



Quoting 777er:

Just read in another topic that PacBlue made an emergency landing at SYD today and was chased down the runway by several fire trucks. First a tail strike a few days ago is aussie, and now this. Surly this will cause DJ some serious headachs. Maybe some Virgin aircraft need to come over to help releave the problems if possible


Best as I can establish, this was in fact a VIRGIN Blue a/c that had a mid-flight engine shut down, and then landed without event. Perhaps it was a PacificBlue livered a/c and thats what caused the confusion?

PacificBlue, under the terms of their AOC is only able to "borrow" one VH registered VirginBlue a/c at a time, and for a limited period each time.


User currently offlineCchan From New Zealand, joined May 2003, 1762 posts, RR: 2
Reply 11, posted (6 years 10 months 4 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 8967 times:



Quoting Planemanofnz (Reply 9):
Unfortunately I think one cannot even get a seat on the 772 flights that go from CHC to AKL if you are a local passenger  

No more widebody flights for us to use!

I was looking for one in March, but apparently NZ doesn't accept bookings. The 772 domestic flights were great. It was a half empty 772 (half of the Japanese passengers got off at CHC, and only a handful of locals get on at CHC). The number of staff from NZ, customs, and MAF that have to deal with these domestic passengers is about the same as the number of domestic passengers on these flights. I guess it is just a hassle for everybody else to let domestic passengers get on these 772. Besides, the CHC-AKL 733 and 320 are never full at that time of the day.


User currently offlineRongotai From New Zealand, joined Sep 2000, 477 posts, RR: 2
Reply 12, posted (6 years 10 months 4 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 8896 times:



Quoting DJ738 (Reply 10):
Best as I can establish, this was in fact a VIRGIN Blue a/c that had a mid-flight engine shut down, and then landed without event. Perhaps it was a PacificBlue livered a/c

My understanding here is that it was Virgin Blue pure and simple. The trouble here is that the branding is so strong that the public don't differentiate. Over the ditch VB staff are complaining that PB's tailscrape and punctuality woes are constantly being reported as THEIRS.


User currently offlineA350 From Germany, joined Nov 2004, 1101 posts, RR: 22
Reply 13, posted (6 years 10 months 4 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 8887 times:

Happy new year, too  champagne 

Quoting 777ER (Thread starter):
In thread #19 ... we learnt and discussed:

- ETOPS for NZs twins ...

Sorry, but I didn't find a very deep discussion about that in thread #19 and have a couple of questions concerning that topic and especially service to Lat Am:

- do you see a potential for new routes between New Zealand and Latin America?
- do you think such routes were one reason for the 787 order, expecting that the ETOPS rules will be lifted?
- do you think there is a chance for a NZ 744 service to Chile, Argentina and Brazil as long as ETOPS rules still exist?
- do you think a TAM service GRU-AKL-GRU with their A345s is a realistic option once they have got other metal for the FRA route?

Thanks!

A350



Photography - the art of observing, not the art of arranging
User currently offlineDJ738 From New Zealand, joined Jun 2005, 410 posts, RR: 1
Reply 14, posted (6 years 10 months 3 weeks 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 8822 times:



Quoting Rongotai (Reply 12):
The trouble here is that the branding is so strong that the public don't differentiate.

Interesting. I'm yet to find any Australian who, when I say "PacificBlue", has any idea who PB are!


User currently offlineSunriseValley From Canada, joined Jul 2004, 5155 posts, RR: 5
Reply 15, posted (6 years 10 months 3 weeks 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 8816 times:



Quoting A350 (Reply 13):
do you think such routes were one reason for the 787 order, expecting that the ETOPS rules will be lifted?
- do you think there is a chance for a NZ 744 service to Chile, Argentina and Brazil as long as ETOPS rules still exist?

The FAA has done away with ETOPS and created a whole new scenario. A useful link is http://www.flightsafety.org/asw/mar07/asw_mar07_p12-16.pdf
You will see that there is much more involved than the number of engines. Fire protective measures assume a much more important role than previously. I believe a new condition is that trans-polar air routes across the South Pole are not
permitted until emergency landing facilities are in place.This requirement would not effect N.Z. to South American routes since they are not trans-polar.
I would expect that the N.Z. and South American regulators would have to approve any plans for new services and I can't imagine that NZ would take this on until they had substantial experience with a new type . Probably they would start with the 772 first.
Similarly such routes as AKL-PER/MEL-JNB would be subject to careful consideration by the relevant regulators.


User currently offlineECONOMICS From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (6 years 10 months 3 weeks 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 8806 times:



Quoting DJ738 (Reply 14):
Quoting Rongotai (Reply 12):
The trouble here is that the branding is so strong that the public don't differentiate.

Interesting. I'm yet to find any Australian who, when I say "PacificBlue", has any idea who PB are!

Yes agree, most people just refer to DJ/PB as Virgin. Am sure V Australia will be referred to the same way as well. Smart way of getting around not being able to call PB or V Australia, Virgin something.


User currently offlineZKSUJ From New Zealand, joined May 2004, 7110 posts, RR: 12
Reply 17, posted (6 years 10 months 3 weeks 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 8800 times:



Quoting ECONOMICS (Reply 16):
just refer to DJ/PB as Virgin. Am sure V Australia will be referred to the same way as well. Smart way of getting around not being able to call PB or V Australia, Virgin something.

I've heard quite a few NZers refer to PB as Virgin as well. The whole brand seems to be grouped into one.


User currently offlineRongotai From New Zealand, joined Sep 2000, 477 posts, RR: 2
Reply 18, posted (6 years 10 months 3 weeks 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 8787 times:



Quoting DJ738 (Reply 14):
Interesting. I'm yet to find any Australian who, when I say "PacificBlue", has any idea who PB are!

Correct - so when the PB tailscrape happened last week the journos just saw pictures of a red aeroplane and reported it as VB - leading to the VB staff feeling aggrieved. It was only over here that people confused yesterday's engine shut down because - as you say - in the eyes of most Aussie's there is no such thing as PB to get confused about.


User currently offlineKoruman From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 19, posted (6 years 10 months 3 weeks 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 8769 times:



Quoting A350 (Reply 13):
do you see a potential for new routes between New Zealand and Latin America?

No, because there is no demand. LANChile meets what little demand there is. Cultural, social and economic links are minimal: there is a far stronger case for a route to South Africa than South America.

Quoting A350 (Reply 13):
do you think such routes were one reason for the 787 order, expecting that the ETOPS rules will be lifted?

No, not at all. The 787 order was basically to replace the 767-300ER with more economic aircraft, and its added range is a bonus which opens up more point-to-point destinations for Air New Zealand in the USA and the UK.

Quoting A350 (Reply 13):
do you think there is a chance for a NZ 744 service to Chile, Argentina and Brazil as long as ETOPS rules still exist?

Considering that the 747-400 is considered by Air New Zealand to be too big to service routes like SYD-LAX or AKL-LAX-MAN where there is strong proven demand, the chances of it being used to places with no links to New Zealand are so remote as to be able to be discounted.

Quoting A350 (Reply 13):
do you think a TAM service GRU-AKL-GRU with their A345s is a realistic option once they have got other metal for the FRA route?

Again, what for, or more precisely who for? The only place in the South Pacific which Brazilians visit in economically significant numbers is French Polynesia, which would presumably be a higher priority if only as a refuelling point on a GRU-NRT route allowing passengers to get to Japan without a US Visa, but even there it looks as if Brazil is on the verge of operational acceptance into the US Visa Waiver program.


User currently offlineAirnewzealand From New Zealand, joined Oct 2000, 2542 posts, RR: 6
Reply 20, posted (6 years 10 months 3 weeks 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 8721 times:



Quoting Koruman (Reply 19):
No, because there is no demand. LANChile meets what little demand there is. Cultural, social and economic links are minimal: there is a far stronger case for a route to South Africa than South America

WRONG...on so many notes. This is one of LA's most profitable routes, and is finding it HARD to meet the demand (Especially in forward cabins) on this sector..thus QF joining the mix this Nov (With 4-class service).

The same is said about Aerolineas! Very profitable route for them.


User currently offlineKoruman From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 21, posted (6 years 10 months 3 weeks 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 8659 times:

Bear in mind John Macilree's recent post about Air NZ only being interested in expanding onto monopoly routes where it can charge what it likes.

Chile and Argentina are markets which are already serviced, which leaves only Brazil, which has minimal trade or personal links with NZ. I was about to write that there aren't many Brazilians in New Zealand, but that could be open to dispute and misinterpretation, so I'll say that there aren't many Brazilian people in NZ.


User currently offlineNzrich From New Zealand, joined Dec 2005, 1523 posts, RR: 1
Reply 22, posted (6 years 10 months 3 weeks 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 8632 times:



Quoting Koruman (Reply 21):
Bear in mind John Macilree's recent post about Air NZ only being interested in expanding onto monopoly routes where it can charge what it likes.

Chile and Argentina are markets which are already serviced, which leaves only Brazil, which has minimal trade or personal links with NZ. I was about to write that there aren't many Brazilians in New Zealand, but that could be open to dispute and misinterpretation, so I'll say that there aren't many Brazilian people in NZ.

I think there would be at least as many Brazillians as other South Americans in NZ .. If NZ could link up with a Brazillian carrier than it could very well work ..



"Pride of the pacific"
User currently offlineRongotai From New Zealand, joined Sep 2000, 477 posts, RR: 2
Reply 23, posted (6 years 10 months 3 weeks 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 8592 times:

According to the MFAT website 10,000 Brazilians visited New Zealand in the year to July 2007, and the number is increasing by 20% a year. In addition there are 3,000 Brazilian citizens resident in NZ, 2,000 of them are tertiary students. Their travel stats are in addition to the 10,000 short term visitors. Brazilians account for 55% of all South American arrivals in New Zealand.

User currently offlineNzrich From New Zealand, joined Dec 2005, 1523 posts, RR: 1
Reply 24, posted (6 years 10 months 3 weeks 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 8568 times:



Quoting Rongotai (Reply 23):
According to the MFAT website 10,000 Brazilians visited New Zealand in the year to July 2007, and the number is increasing by 20% a year. In addition there are 3,000 Brazilian citizens resident in NZ, 2,000 of them are tertiary students. Their travel stats are in addition to the 10,000 short term visitors. Brazilians account for 55% of all South American arrivals in New Zealand.

Thanks i thought the Brazilian Community would of made up the most of NZ's South American visitors



"Pride of the pacific"
25 Post contains images Planemanofnz : I believe we call it 'LAN' now, don't we There has NEVER been a route between South Africa and New Zealand, where as AR has been flying here for more
26 V2fix : With the arrival of QF's Premium Economy Class in April - do memeber think that it will have much of an impact on Air NZ ? The first routes to recieve
27 VHVXB : yes but TAM's priorities are else where i.e major european markets. I think it would have minimal impact as both products are targeted to different m
28 TG992 : I suspect NZ will eventually upgrade the Premium Economy to 2-2-2 on the 777 and 2-2 on the 744 upper deck. It would be a relatively straightforward m
29 777ER : I think since many pax don't like being stuck in the 'middle' seat, then NZ could benefit from QFs decision to taking VSs layout, also bear in mind,
30 MotorHussy : I suspect that that may be 2-4-2 on the Triple-7's and that the 2-3 on the 744 upper deck suffices fine and will stay (with maybe a little more leg r
31 MotorHussy : While that's sound logic, I think the arrival of NZ's CFRP planes will herald the age of non-stop flights between Brazil and New Zealand (and an alte
32 NZ107 : Does anyone know the schedule of ZK-OKF tonight, and what it's going to be doing tomorrow?
33 NZ1 : AKL spotters may want to watch one of our 777's race against an A1GP Race Car tomorrow at 9.30am. Details below from a staff update. Air New Zealand c
34 Post contains images Zkpilot : agreed... 2-2-2 is what most airlines have for business class. So long as fuel prices don't go up much more then I think NZ will start a Sth America
35 Nzrich : Yes but i think NZ would have cheaper costs than QF so i think NZ could compete on the Sth American routes
36 KLMD11L : 1. Any plans for NZ to stretch their SFO & YVR flights to Europe, US East coast & YYZ? 2. Is Rob Fyfe' plans for adding a new international destinatio
37 Airnewzealand : Not for too much longer. Also, QF will be crewing these flights with mostly AKL based crew...meaning cheap labour. QF are targeting the "baby boomers
38 Post contains images Pilotdude09 : Was going to say, they have always said its a totally new class. There will be a massive difference between the service of Y and J. Priority check-in
39 Nzrich : Yes but your also forgetting that its just not the cabin crew that makes up the cost !!! Maintenance head office flight deck etc all NZ based employe
40 Alangirvan : RAAF and RNZAF also offer a make your own sandwich service at the back of C-130s. Slice of ham, slice of cheese, two slices of bread. Relish. They do
41 LHStarAlliance : Sorry for "hijacking" this thread .. but I just have one question : Is it possible that NZ will ever come back to FRA or MUC ? Maybe with 787s? Consta
42 Nzrich : So will you also get the business class entrees and mains like on NZ as i did like that !!!
43 Rongotai : There is a non-standard flight number QF6172 operating AKL-BNE this morning, with the departure gate being a domestic gate. Also a number of QF domest
44 Koruman : There are concerning issues arising already with the Premium Economy products, and Air NZ are likely to need to replace their seating sooner rather t
45 Georgebush : Well that happens quite regularly (QF cancellations), I don't know the last time you flew QF domestically in NZ but I doubt any amount of "engineerin
46 ECONOMICS : what about something to do with tomorrows QF engineers strike ?
47 NZ107 : I did see a QF 737 in the area by the Airworks hangar in AKL today, alongside the 732 of Airworks. So that leads me to think - why is there a plane g
48 Post contains links and images Zkpilot : not hijacking it at all mate. And the answer is probably yes. NZ has stated that they want to return to mainland Europe in the next few years (its ve
49 Cchan : How old are these QF 733 and 734s? They are not in as bad shape as those which are flying with small airlines in Africa , Asia or South America?
50 ECONOMICS : by bagging QF 733's u indirectly bag all 733's inc NZ's some of which were I believe last 733's produced.
51 Planemanofnz : No he doesn't. Why would you jump to such a bold idea from : Also to note : QF's 733's are much older than the NZ 733's.
52 Georgebush : Thats true, but still Qantas is not a third world airline hell they are buying the 380 soon. You would really expect better from an airline like that
53 Alangirvan : Jetstar A320s are not really the ideal aircraft for short NZ domestic sectors - CHC-WLG 190 miles. Although Qantas Club members can use the Club loung
54 Pilotdude09 : Hopefully NZ will upgrade their seat, would love to try them but will defintley try QF when i go back to the USA or to Europe in 2009. Price would de
55 ECONOMICS : yes it does because Joe Public doesn't know difference between an old 733 & a new 733
56 Planemanofnz : Mate, he was asking about QF, NOT NZ. Read below : Mm, is Air New Zealand and their 733's included in this grouping? NO.
57 Rongotai : I personally know of 3 QF corporate contracts that are not going to be renewed specifically because of their punctuality performance. Agreed - but Jo
58 Alangirvan : There was an interview with someone from AirNZ management who said that Qantas CityFlyer service in NZ is nowhere near as good as Qantas on Australia
59 Jamie86 : Ok a few things (not having a go or saying n e 1 is wrong k) with the QF SYD- Santiago flights, chances are they wnt be all kiwi crew, i certainly wis
60 Airnewzealand : Trust me mate, They will be delivering on all promised and more ( to be announced shortly) also aircraft will be out of the hanger end of Jan early F
61 Jamie86 : I do hope so, i would like to have a slip in Santiago. Yes i can confirm that Air NZ is/was hiring for permanent Long Haul flight attendants but need
62 Post contains images GarethW : Not possible..... Jetstar has got them all on their A332s and they forgot to teach half of them English!!!!!
63 Jamie86 : LOL
64 NZ1 : That is very true. An email went out to all staff before Xmas asking for volunteers who can speak those languages. NZ1
65 Post contains images Pilotdude09 : Wouldnt suprise me if they did a half assed job in NZ, the NZ market has heaps and heaps of potential but they just dont acknoledge it and dont try a
66 Cchan : Jetconnect's (QF) 733 are at least some 5-10 years older than the NZ ones. The NZ ones aren't anywhere near going to small African airlines, but Jetc
67 777ER : I've just done a flight search from Y+ on NZ and QF in aussie $$$, from SYD-LHR-SYD on Nov 10th and returning on Nov 17th. QF was via SIN, and NZ was
68 Cchan : They are not that old, must have very high cycles or poorly maintained at some stage to be in that condition? I would agree with him that NZ (and DJ)
69 777ER : Especially on flights were tourists are connecting onto, like from LAX. QF said in a press release some time ago (when they announced 'cityflyer serv
70 Rongotai : No - what happened today was' that a whole bunch of QF New Zealand domestic flights were cancelled 'due engineering' . Also today a QF flight to Bris
71 Post contains links 777ER : Thats a B734 due to an overload at CHC. I think its -JTR QF and JQ have already raised their fuel surcharges, but NZ is holding off raising theirs "J
72 Mr AirNZ : Not quite. JNC is the aircraft currently in the hanger in BHE
73 Post contains links 777ER : First youtube movies of todays race are up, but the quality are CRAP!!! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2cJxVet78e0 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ssHl
74 Cchan : I would be very interested to know what happens to those passengers transferring to international flights and missed the connection due to a QF domes
75 NZ107 : Haha that was appalling. If they had a proper video camera, I couldn't blame them for poor quality, the day wasn't the best. Overcast and dull. And d
76 ANstar : I'm guessing Jetconnect will have some new 737's in the next 3 or so years as more of the QF groups 738 orders roll in
77 777ER : A OneWorld member actually uses NZ for its domestic connection, instead of QF!, I believe its CX In all honestly, the day I see B738s replacing QFs c
78 Zkpilot : Mate, I KNOW that they won't be all kiwi crew right now (unless the new EBA doesn't go through then small chance). Simply because AKL base has no CSM
79 NZ107 : Nope, CX definitely use QF. The 738s arrival IMO is pinned to the growth of demand for flights needing a plane this size. I'd say they would be at le
80 KLMD11L : I think FRA via BKK makes sense for NZ, Both cities being Star Alliance strongholds!
81 Cchan : My parents travelled WLG-AKL-HKG last month, the connection was QF. It was a morning flight, so luckily didn't get delayed or cancelled. One oneworld
82 777ER : When NZ, QF, CX, EK etc had their London and Europe sale fares, I read in the small print of one of the OneWorld member airlines that flights from WL
83 Post contains links 777ER : Air New Zealand says hello to Wairarapa Air NZ agrees to take off in Wairarapa A year of lobbying has paid off for Wairarapa tourism developers, with
84 Post contains images LHStarAlliance : thanx for your answer so I'm looking forward to see that beautiful birds here in FRA ! The AKL-PVG-FRA makes sense to me if they could get passangers
85 ECONOMICS : " target=_blank>http://www.stuff.co.nz/4347995a13.html where exactly is Wairarapa ? How close to WLG?
86 NZ107 : Here, they are talking about Masterton: roughly 100km to Wellington, and roughly the same distance to PMR. Wairarapa is the entire area to the northe
87 Rongotai : Masterton is 90KM or so from Wellington. Some hardy souls commute. However the road involves a section that is across a very tortuous saddle. Long ag
88 ECONOMICS : Thanks. So how will this effect Ozjet services into PMR starting late MAR ? Any news on what else Ozjet will be doing in NZ? Surely 1port (PMR) is ju
89 Rongotai : Not at all in my view. There would be a few northenr Wairarapa passengers who might use Ozjet, but there is nothing NZ are likely to do out of Master
90 ECONOMICS : Sounds like Masterton/Australia via AKL then would be too hard/too expensive & too slow.
91 Axio : The rail service from Masterton to Wellington is also good (by New Zealand standards).
92 Cchan : Going from Masterton to Palmerston North to catch Ozjet is also too hard and too slow! It is easier for Masterton residents to get to Wellington to c
93 Alangirvan : I know of one Business Traveller who lives in Carterton who use PMR for regular work trips to AKL. For family who want to visit this person, from the
94 767ER : My parents used to live in Masterton so i used to go over there all the time. Used to catch SYD WLG, catch a cab to WGN Railway STN then train to Mast
95 ECONOMICS : Obviously then if some market out of Masterton, PMR who must be giving Ozjet some good incentives, would look at easy way to get to PMR, as if Ozjet
96 777ER : The Wairarapa district is from the top of the Rimataka Hill Road in the South to Ekatahuna in the North This new service won't affect Ozjet in any wa
97 NZ1 : It's a 733 - ZK-JNC, went in on the 7th Jan, and is due out on 17th Feb. NZ1
98 ECONOMICS : yes but if there is demand from Masterton to get to OZ, then better to ground transfer than via AKL eg.
99 777ER : There is ground transports, its in the form of a bus and taxi to PMR or train/shuttle/bus/taxi to WLG or private vehicle to PMR or WLG
100 Cchan : I think if NZ provides an AKL service to Masterton, they would be aiming at passengers who travel to other parts in the network as well, not just Aus
101 SA7700 : I read on NZ's website that Star Gold members can check-in 20kg baggage, as well as an additional 20kg for NZ domestic flights. With the 32kg baggage
102 777ER : I can't answer the first part of the question, but NZ allows 1x carry on bag to carry your personal things, like tooth brush, book etc, and they also
103 Rongotai : My (substantial) experience is that there has been a lot of tightening up domestically recently on the 1 bag rule, but I personally have not been ref
104 SA7700 : To make a long story short....I'm on the verge of booking flights on SQ from JNB via SIN to CHC, with CHC being my final destination in Oceania. No d
105 Rongotai : I don't think that will be any problem at all. Once you clear immigration at AKL you go to the NZ domestic transfer desk. They are hendling internati
106 Georgebush : You are allowed 20kg on domestic flights, one bag at 20kg's or 20 bags at 1kg each. If your a Koru Member, NZ Gold/Gold Elite, or Star Alliance Gold
107 Cchan : You are allowed 1 piece to take on board, but you can check in 100 bags as far as I know.
108 Georgebush : 1 Piece under 7kgs. We are beginning to enforce this, so if you've got a heavy looking piece of hand luggage we will weigh it and take it off you. Th
109 777ER : If your flights via the USA, then you can check in 2 bags upto 24kgs each I think, and those two bags are checked in free of charge on NZ domestic.
110 Georgebush : If he's going AKL-CHC for the domestic sector, I doubt the US is his final destination...
111 Post contains images SA7700 : Thanks for all the replies. I will be coming in from JNB via SIN on SQ and leaving New Zealand from CHC-SYD on EK. SYD-SIN-JNB on SQ. That's why I'm
112 Georgebush : You can take a 7kg carry on and a "personal item" which includes hand bags and laptops. So if your keen to carry your laptop and a piece of cabin bag
113 Post contains images SA7700 : Thanks again, I will do so
114 777ER : But what I was saying was that, if his flight plans put him on a flight VIA the USA, then NZ would have to check-in his two bags free of charge Off t
115 TG992 : A bit of news: Air NZ will trial flying jets into regional cities from mid-2008. This is possible due to the upcoming addition of 2x 733s. Decision on
116 Post contains images KLMD11L : ...and considering the ERJ190 as an ATR72 replacement?!! Although nothing confirmed yet, I'd love to see the cute ERJs wearing NZ c/s.
117 Post contains images Axio : That sounds like an ideal opportunity for speculation. My guess: AKL/PMR and HLZ/WLG and IVC/CHC, with a maybe on PMR/CHC. NSN, NPE are less likely d
118 SunriseValley : I would think NSN would have the best traffic of any regional but not sure if the 4000' runway and load bearing capacity would restrict it.
119 Georgebush : If your transiting through the US or flying to/from the US, then your allowed ONLY two pieces not weighing more than 46kgs in total.
120 777ER : I would say WLG/CHC-HLZ would be a trial jet flight, due to HLZs secuirty. ROT flights should also be a trial, but due to their non security, it could
121 SpinalTap : Impossible? NZ already flies 733s on a daily basis to ROT from CHC (NZ636/NZ653)
122 777ER : Oh yea. QF also fly there from CHC
123 Cchan : I have never been on a full ATR72 between these cities though, will a 737 make more profit on these routes? 2x 733 arrive in the next few months, the
124 Nzrich : Yes but they are now searching for 2 additional 733's in addition to the two arriving in the next few months or so ..That will bring the current flee
125 Post contains images Axio : I can assure you flights out of PMR get full Secondly, yield. There is a lot of business travel from these cities. But you raise a valid point; and I
126 Nzrich : Well as HLZ is a international airport it will have all the security required now to operate domestic jet flights ..
127 Planemanofnz : What about AKL-IVC?
128 Rongotai : NZ got blindsided once - by Kiwi International - and then copped heaps when they reacted. Since then they have always tried to preempt moves by compe
129 Rwy21 : ..probably lack of overall constant demand and the lack of security screening infrastructure, IVC is a small regional town, a lot of the flights ive
130 Pilotdude09 : I always check the TVNZ website and i came across it as well, i was thinking WTF? More services would be good another non stop DUD-AKL would be handy
131 Alangirvan : If LionAir Australia can get off the ground, why not Lion Air NZ? Might only be two 737-900ERs but run on the same basis as LA Aus. Majority NZ owners
132 ECONOMICS : what for when any Australian or NZ airline can fly anywhere in Australia or NZ or Trans-Tasman & NZ/Asia could be done on a scheduled or charter basi
133 Post contains links NZ107 : Does anyone have any more info about that supposed airline which was advertising flights from AKL-DPS? Surely it's not going to get started if the ina
134 Zkpilot : Sorry for the slow reply, but my understanding is that when NZ negotiated PVG rights, they were granted the ability to pick up and fly on to at least
135 NZ1 : And we are now sourcing an extra 2, making an increase of 4 x 733 from the current fleet. NZ1
136 Nzrich : WLG -DUD is already serviced by 733's i assume you mean DUD-CHC IVC could work well if the last and first were jets and the rest of the day props wer
137 Post contains links Nzrich : Air NZ and boeings business jets are being fitted out at BHE http://www.stuff.co.nz/4352302a13.html
138 NZ107 : DUD-CHC is flown with 733s too, I think I was meaning WLG-ZQN but they even took the ATR72s off that route. Maybe switching the 733s on other flights
139 ZKSUJ : I can second that. Haven't been on a flight less than 90% full for a long time on this route Its sad, such a great and modest man. Will be remembered
140 Axio : I never really thought about CHC/DUD since it's a shorter flight at 55mins in the AT72 (vs 1:05 for PMR/AKL and HLZ/WLG; and 1:10 IVC/CHC), but it ce
141 Nzrich : Recently that used to be only once a week and was a late night flight between DUD and CHC on a fri or sat.. Now its not even in the schedule at all i
142 Georgebush : Today they had up the excat city pairs getting 733 services on korunet... I will try n get them for you all tomarrow if no one else knows before then.
143 Hornetfan : Getting a flight to PMR at any time is quite difficult unless you want to pay top dollar or are organised enough to book weeks in advance. We often f
144 777ER : I think I remember reading from NZ1, that there is currently a shortage of B733s in NZs fleet due to the required MX on them, and the A320s and G-THO
145 Post contains images Axio : Don't be surprised - PMR has a more sizable catchment for domestic than might at first be suspected, particularly as a Kapiti Coast option (for the m
146 Georgebush : I didn't think about this. Coming from the UA, and the US market NZ amazes me everyday at your demand for domestic service! We have ppl that work at
147 Post contains links BlackLabel : Hello, Long time reader, first time poster. Fairly regular NZ and QF traveler and have enjoyed following the NZ threads for some time. The Air NZ webs
148 BlackLabel : Looks like CX use QF or NZ for domestic connections. While looking for WLG-TPE recently, a CX fare through HKG offered me NZ and QF connections. NZ c
149 Cchan : I did PMR-AKL on NZ5712 and AKL-PMR on NZ5077 yesterday (12/1), there were decent numbers of vacant seats. Around 80-90% full is my estimate. Maybe i
150 Post contains images Axio : This is probably the worst time of year for passengers - the xmas peak is over, businesses haven't really got back into it, and Massey isn't running.
151 777ER : Has had been said in the media, like on stuff.co.nz, the 733 trial won't result in a fare increase. It appears, the EMB190/195 is the possible winner
152 777ER : What is it with Pacific Blue and them changing booked flight plans? For the second time PacBlue haved changed one of my booked flights. The first time
153 Post contains images ZKSUJ : Unless of course you are an Avo...
154 SunriseValley : what are the regulations for the F/A count on domestic flights? Believe the Beech at 19 seats does not require any, just gets under the wire of 20 se
155 Alangirvan : Far be it for me to quote someone out of context, but this person in pprune states that AirNZ is NOT evaluating the Q400, but is more interested in Q4
156 Rongotai : If you want some suggested answers you should go and read the Pprune thread on Pacific Blue's management!
157 ZKSUJ : 20-50 is 1 FA, 50-100 2 FA, 101-150 3 FA etc etc etc... It goes up one FA with every 50 seats
158 Zkpilot : Well I used to fly professors etc from the School of Business back and forth between Palmy and Aucks all the time back when Massey had an Ardmore ope
159 NZ1 : Not sure on JetConnect, but Pac Blues next aircraft ZK-PBI is supposed to be inducted towards the end of Feb. They are ex Air Malta, 9H-ADH and 9H-AD
160 777ER : Eagle Air who operate the 1900Ds, operate on a 121 licence (I think it is, which doesn't require an FA)
161 Rongotai : Both aircraft were manufactured in 1998.
162 ECONOMICS : DJ are getting ~20+ e-jets in the next 2 years. How difficult would it be for them to operate a Trans-Tasman leg, then a domestic NZ leg & then anoth
163 Rongotai : Yes it does matter - it would breach the terms of their AOC as I understand it.
164 ECONOMICS : Then if it did surely wouldn't be that hard to transfer them to NZ register, although ... Any Australian or NZ airline can currently operate any dome
165 777ER : [quote=ECONOMICS,reply=162]DJ are getting ~20+ e-jets in the next 2 years. How difficult would it be for them to operate a Trans-Tasman leg, then a do
166 ECONOMICS : OK think I understand PB markings (although don't DJ aircraft sometimes fill in for PB aircraft & flights are still called PB not DJ) but why ZK rego
167 777ER : VB aircraft can operate PB flights, but for a limited time, ie as temporary lift while an aircraft is in MX etc, but not on a regular basis. PB and V
168 ECONOMICS : In retrospect, wouldn't in be better for them to have 1 AOC ? SQ issue is not an AOC issue.
169 Rongotai : This is very important for both VB with PB and QF with Jetconnect. Both cases are ways of reducing costs by having an NZ operation. We often forget t
170 ECONOMICS : but surely you could do this with 1 AOC ? Just have NZ crews do all TT & NZ dom ops & have the 1 to 50 ratio for everything but OZ dom ops ?
171 Rongotai : Illegal in one or both countries depending on the country of registration.
172 777ER : No it isn't possible. For it to be possible SQ would have to sell their shares in VS, and PB would have to use crews as per the Australian requirment
173 ECONOMICS : what's illegal exactly, u r not clear ?
174 777ER : It would be breaking one or both countrys requirments for AOCs
175 Rongotai : Australian law has crewing requirements that are greater than in NZ. The law prevents those requirements from being circumvented by foreign airlines
176 ECONOMICS : sorry but what precisely ? since when ? Think u've got your wired crossed just because they've both got virgin in their name. but DJ can operate any
177 777ER : IMHO flights between NZ and OZ should be considered as domestic flights for NZ and OZ residents. Would be so much easier compared to needing a passpo
178 ECONOMICS : Yes but now we have SAM (single aviation market) between OZ & NZ, which means any airline of NZ or OZ can operate within OZ or NZ or between without
179 Rongotai : This whole debate is complicated because there are a whole lot of different limitations at work: 1. The terms of the air services agreements between
180 ECONOMICS : ok going thru your points above,1 & 2 are irrelevant due to SAM 3. - thought international services not subject to IR of only 1 country ? 4. only sto
181 777ER : Read reply #175 Nope havn't got my qires crossed. When SQ took a share in VS, SQ made a rule that VB can't use the VB name outside of Australia on VB
182 ECONOMICS : know Branson still has a minority share in DJ but VS ?
183 Post contains images ZKSUJ : Just curious, what was the story with that bro? Was it when they were giving out bandit time or did you have to use your sorties? I heard there was a
184 Post contains images Pilotdude09 :    Richard JF is one interesting person!!! so so random and trying to sue QF thats just hilarious. Alan, think he needs to go to Waikari Hospital or
185 ZK-NBT : Second half of this year. Hopefully SQ will increase flights to AKL later this year with the 77W coming on the route, it is sad to see another 744 go
186 777ER : I read today, that an announcement is expected in March/April Second half of the year, so around May-July If that happened then expect NZ to lease so
187 Post contains images Pilotdude09 : Cheers guys
188 Cchan : More likely, they'll tell you to come back tomorrow and put you on a 763 that is fixed.
189 777ER : Or if the grounding was long enough and serious enough, like the AN grounding, lease other B767s
190 Post contains images Pilotdude09 : I opened a can of worms with that one I know a 777 operated AKL-PER-AKL once late last year when a 767 went tech.
191 Post contains links Macilree : A few contributors seem to be unaware of some angles here. Bed calls but a brief post - I may look to fill out some details later with appropriate li
192 DavidByrne : Sincere thanks to John McIlreee for outlining the current situation on the SAM. The information about how Pacific Blue operates is particularly instru
193 Pilotdude09 : And i reckon NZ would do pretty bloody well on PER-SYD/MEL but that would really need to continue on to say LAX or SFO i guess to make it viable for
194 Alangirvan : If you could organise your travel before the end of March, you could use Tiger PER-MEL and Freedom MEL-DUD, the connection works in both directions.
195 DavidByrne : Yes - I suggested PER-SYD because it could easily be tacked on as an overnighter to connect with the 0700 SYD-AKL flight, and with the 1730 AKL-SYD f
196 PA515 : Regarding the 13 Q400 options NZ negotiated in 2004 for 2009/10 delivery. If these are transferable to another party or can be sold back to Bombardier
197 ECONOMICS : also a 777 operated CHC/BNE in JUL approx. 13 or 14 JUL. We were told that there were so many Queensland school groups heading home that it was more
198 Post contains images Pilotdude09 : Nah ive used Tiger and wouldnt really use them unless i had to again and i earn Airpoints flying with NZ and FF points with QF Wanted to try NZ out a
199 Post contains images Zkpilot : It was actually in PA-44T Seminoles at the time... then they used Senecas. Maseey did have a Chieftain at one stage that was sometimes used also. Bas
200 Post contains images ZKSUJ : Haha, nice. Can't complain about free time eh bro
201 777ER : Airworks B733s only operate in Oz, so no TT freighter flights
202 Hornetfan : I heard from a collegue that there was an incident at WLG today that closed the airport for around an hour around or just after lunchtime, does anyone
203 ZKSUJ : I read it was an NZ 737 with a hydraulic leak on the runway on landing. They cleaned it up and things went back to normal I'll try find the link. But
204 Post contains links 777ER : Welcome to Thread #21 New Zealand Aviation Thread #21 (by 777ER Jan 14 2008 in Civil Aviation)
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