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Rumor: Virgin Atlantic To Fly LHR-SEA?   
User currently offlineDutchdragon From United States of America, joined Feb 2007, 22 posts, RR: 0
Posted (6 years 11 months 2 weeks 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 8714 times:

I keep hearing rumours or possbile fact, that Virgin Atlantic "might" be serving the SEA-LHR v.v. run sometime in the near future.

What I haven't heard, so far, is whether or not this will be a daily run (last I saw, BA had 10 flights on the same run, at least during last summer anyways), as well as what type of aircraft they plan to use (BA was using 744's on one month for all 10 a week, then they change to daily 744 + 3 777 flights).

So what does anybody know of the latest about this, please advise, thank you.

Also, does anybody know how many flight a week BA is currenty flying the same run ?

Thank you.

41 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineLN-MOW From United States of America, joined Jan 2000, 1909 posts, RR: 13
Reply 1, posted (6 years 11 months 2 weeks 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 8664 times:

I know they have been in contact with Port of Seattle. However, it is not unusual for airlines and airports to meet and it doesn't necessarily mean that they will start flying.

NW's recent announcement to open LHR-SEA will probably discourage them ... I don't think the market will support three airlines on the route.



- I am LN-MOW, and I approve this message.
User currently offlineLambertMan From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 2081 posts, RR: 36
Reply 2, posted (6 years 11 months 2 weeks 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 8642 times:

Seattle-Europe is getting crowded with LH and the aforementioned NW flight. Although it does fit the profile of their other US destinations, I wouldn't bet on it.

User currently offlineSANFan From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 5592 posts, RR: 12
Reply 3, posted (6 years 11 months 2 weeks 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 8629 times:

Maybe the rumors are somehow linked to the announced start-up of Virgin AMERICA at Sea/TAC in March... (Either some sort of confusion or some implied relationship of the route structures of the 2 cousin airlines?)

I do agree that 3 cx all of a sudden going at it over the pole between Seattle and London sounds like a lot of seats to fill!

bb


User currently offlineVV701 From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2005, 7737 posts, RR: 17
Reply 4, posted (6 years 11 months 2 weeks 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 8603 times:



Quoting Dutchdragon (Thread starter):
Also, does anybody know how many flight a week BA is currently flying the same run ?

On Mondays and Saturdays BA currently operates one 744 (BA049) and one 772 (BA053) on LHR-SEA.

On Tuesdays, Wednesdays and Fridays BA operates one 744 (BA049).

On Thursdays BA operates two 772s (BA049 and BA053).

On Sundays BA operates one 772 (BA049).

So on a weekly basis it is still operating ten flights but with only 5 being 744s.


User currently offlineLN-MOW From United States of America, joined Jan 2000, 1909 posts, RR: 13
Reply 5, posted (6 years 11 months 2 weeks 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 8561 times:



Quoting SANFan (Reply 3):
Maybe the rumors are somehow linked to the announced start-up of Virgin AMERICA at Sea/TAC in March.

No, I know for a fact that VS was in SEA to meet PoS and talk to ground handlers.



- I am LN-MOW, and I approve this message.
User currently offlineCubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 23296 posts, RR: 20
Reply 6, posted (6 years 11 months 2 weeks 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 8524 times:



Quoting LN-MOW (Reply 1):

NW's recent announcement to open LHR-SEA will probably discourage them ... I don't think the market will support three airlines on the route.

I'm not even sure that London-Seattle can support two carriers; I suspect BA might reduce frequency some.



I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
User currently offlineB752OS From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 1322 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (6 years 11 months 2 weeks 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 8502 times:



Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 6):
Quoting LN-MOW (Reply 1):

NW's recent announcement to open LHR-SEA will probably discourage them ... I don't think the market will support three airlines on the route.

I'm not even sure that London-Seattle can support two carriers; I suspect BA might reduce frequency some.

I would agree. I don't see NW, BA and VS all surviving, especially when there is going to be 4 x daily flights. (Isn't BA planning on going double daily on this?)

SEA-Europe is becoming very crowded with LH, AF coming online. People on these boards have even mentioned NW could make SEA-AMS double daily.


User currently offlineRwSEA From Netherlands, joined Jan 2005, 3133 posts, RR: 2
Reply 8, posted (6 years 11 months 2 weeks 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 7855 times:

VS wouldn't start SEA until they got 787s, at the very earliest. But as others have mentioned, the NW flight may put a damper on these plans. BA will continue to do well at SEA based on the onward connections to India, Africa, and the Middle East. VS has fewer connections beyond LHR, and NW pretty much has none. Thus, VS and NW would be fighting over the same O&D pax.

That said, VS did hint at a possible SEA service in their press release announcing the purchase of 787s. If you go to the Seatac Airport page on wikipedia, there is a link to that press release.

Quoting B752OS (Reply 7):
A-Europe is becoming very crowded with LH, AF coming online. People on these boards have even mentioned NW could make SEA-AMS double daily.

SEA-AMS double daily probably won't happen at this point. NW's 332 fleet is totally maxed out, and the 333s aren't ideal for the route. Plus, the introduction of SEA-CDG last year helps relieve the strain. Also consider the recent addition of PDX-AMS which will no doubt take a chunk of connecting regional traffic.

If NW wanted to make a SEA route 2x daily, NRT would be the better option if you ask me. It's packed to the gills every day, and is 9x weekly for a good portion of the year as it is.


User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 33273 posts, RR: 71
Reply 9, posted (6 years 11 months 2 weeks 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 7855 times:

There likely is not room for Virgin with Northwest on the route, too.


a.
User currently offlineGilesdavies From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2003, 3052 posts, RR: 2
Reply 10, posted (6 years 11 months 2 weeks 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 7581 times:

The market between London and Seattle is getting very crowded as it is and not sure if the market could support a third carrier...

If Virgin are keen to start up services to the Northwest, they should possibly consider Portland (PDX) as there is no current service to London offered from there or possibly try services to Vancouver.

Services between London and Vancouver usually attract a higher fare than SEA and one would assume this would mean ta higher yield.


User currently offlineYVRLTN From Canada, joined Oct 2006, 2547 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (6 years 11 months 2 weeks 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 7326 times:

Would it work a bit better for VS at SEA if they had some codeshare agreement with AS / QX??

Quoting Gilesdavies (Reply 10):
Services between London and Vancouver usually attract a higher fare than SEA and one would assume this would mean ta higher yield.

I would personally love to see VS at YVR, but they would then be competing with BA & AC on premium traffic to LHR, plus all the leisure airlines TS / VZ / TCX (Canadian Affair), Z4 & GSM to the UK & Ireland, and they bump into LH & KL again as at SEA, so although Im sure they could get enough bums to fill a few 343's a week, I dont see it being as high yielding for them as you say, as opposed to other points they could look at instead. Ive always said the only way VS could make worthwhile money at YVR is if they went to MAN instead of LHR, as there is no premium carrier to compete with.



Follow me on twitter for YVR movements @vernonYVR
User currently offlineVV701 From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2005, 7737 posts, RR: 17
Reply 12, posted (6 years 11 months 2 weeks 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 6737 times:



Quoting Gilesdavies (Reply 10):
If Virgin are keen to start up services to the Northwest, they should possibly consider Portland (PDX) as there is no current service to London offered from there

UA928/9 is currently marketed as a PDX-LHR-PDX service but, although it has a single flight number, it involves a change of aircraft at ORD. (Bermuda 2 currently excludes a direct flight between PDX and LHR.)

While this might suggest UA might consider a direct PDX-LHR service I very much doubt that one will materialise, After all ORD is a UA hub but PDX is not. And if UA withdrew from the JFK-LHR route they are unlikely to be able to make a non-stop PDX-LHR flight pay.


User currently offlineEVA777SEA From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 473 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (6 years 11 months 2 weeks 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 6419 times:



Quoting LN-MOW (Reply 5):
No, I know for a fact that VS was in SEA to meet PoS and talk to ground handlers.

How recently was this?


User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 33273 posts, RR: 71
Reply 14, posted (6 years 11 months 2 weeks 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 6416 times:



Quoting VV701 (Reply 12):
While this might suggest UA might consider a direct PDX-LHR

It doesn't suggest it at all. Airlines do this all the time. AA runs a "direct" AUS-NRT, DL has a "direct" MIA-TXL, etc., etc.



a.
User currently offlineEVA777SEA From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 473 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (6 years 11 months 2 weeks 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 6339 times:



Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 14):
It doesn't suggest it at all. Airlines do this all the time. AA runs a "direct" AUS-NRT, DL has a "direct" MIA-TXL, etc., etc.

 checkmark  UA runs a "direct" SEA-LHR also as well as a "direct" SEA-FRA. Just because they are direct doesn't mean they are planning on opening up a nonstop flight. It's not even same plane service.


User currently offlineJetjack74 From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 7429 posts, RR: 50
Reply 16, posted (6 years 11 months 2 weeks 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 6258 times:
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Quoting VV701 (Reply 12):
And if UA withdrew from the JFK-LHR route they are unlikely to be able to make a non-stop PDX-LHR flight pay.

Didn't UA sell their JFK-LHR route to DL for DL to operate it as JFK-LGW? There was much fanfare about it complete with a bunch of "Bond Girl" has-beens.



Made from jets!
User currently offlineLHPDX From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 451 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (6 years 11 months 2 weeks 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 5963 times:

If a new flight should be added to the northwest region it should be from PDX-LHR......Seattle has way to much capacity now with the new additions to Europe in 2008 ...................I hope there will be no casualties with all of this new service, however, I'm sure one will truly lose out..............

User currently offlineZuluTime From United Kingdom, joined May 2006, 172 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (6 years 11 months 2 weeks 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 5963 times:

VS have told staff that they have no aircraft to launch new routes until the 787s arrive - nothing likely. If they had aircraft, they could have launched a new route from LHR this year using the slots which they got in the deal with Air Jamaica. They haven't done so and have instead leased the slots out to Blue1 for Helsinki-Heathrow flights.

User currently offlineAerofan From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 1517 posts, RR: 2
Reply 19, posted (6 years 11 months 2 weeks 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 5912 times:

I say let them launch the service- and may the best man win. Why would anyone in their right mind fly NW when they could fly BA or VS. If BA is going double daily shows that there's room enough.

Perhaps it is the idea that VS will fly SEALHR that will put a dampner on NW's plans? ever think of that?


User currently offlineRwSEA From Netherlands, joined Jan 2005, 3133 posts, RR: 2
Reply 20, posted (6 years 11 months 2 weeks 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 5883 times:



Quoting Aerofan (Reply 19):
I say let them launch the service- and may the best man win. Why would anyone in their right mind fly NW when they could fly BA or VS. If BA is going double daily shows that there's room enough.

Perhaps it is the idea that VS will fly SEALHR that will put a dampner on NW's plans? ever think of that?

If I was a Coach passenger, I would pick NW over BA or VS every time, due to:

1) The ability to pre-reserve a seat.
2) Reciprocal AS elite benefits, such as pre-reserving exit row and premium seats and earning 150% miles.
3) The ability to earn 100% AS EQMs, as opposed to 25% non-EQM miles on BA, and no AS miles on VS.
4) 2x4x2 seating rather than 3x4x3 or 3x3x3 on BA/VS.
5) NW has great interiors, with comfortable seats including winged headrests, 32-33" pitch, and a great AVOD system.
6) NW even has the oh so important free alcohol on transatlantic flights.

In Coach, BA and VS wouldn't have a single advantage over NW. You can't underestimate NW's loyal FF base in SEA, as well as the huge base of AS elites. VS would be a newcomer with no alliance partnerships and pretty much no connectivity on either end (other than to DEL, BOM, and a few Africa cities in LHR, but BA, LH, AF, NW, etc. already have those covered).

However, the situation does change for Business. BA and VS both beat NW in this category. I still think VS would fail to capture that traffic though, given their lack of alliance partners in SEA. BA still has the AS and AA partnership. BA also has FIRST.

There won't be any room for VS in SEA for awhile.


User currently offlineZuluTime From United Kingdom, joined May 2006, 172 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (6 years 11 months 2 weeks 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 5860 times:

This board seems to be getting more and more populated with US members stating their views in a manner which basically ignores the fact that there is life (and airline customers) outside the borders of the USA.

For me, I might choose to fly BA or Virgin because BA offer me BA miles or lots of points on my BA credit card. I might prefer 3 x 3 x 3 on BA 777s if I'm travelling in a family of three. BA and Virgin both have AVOD, seat pitch and BA certainly had adjustable headrests in Economy. Both BA and VS offer free alcohol in Economy. NW does too. Big deal. Last time I flew with BA and VS, some of the cabin crew were under 60 years old too. I can't be sure of the same from my last experiences on NW.

You also can't under-estimate BA's loyal frequent flyer base in London.

Would it be unfair to start asking the US posters to take a marginally more balanced view of life on here?


User currently offlineRwSEA From Netherlands, joined Jan 2005, 3133 posts, RR: 2
Reply 22, posted (6 years 11 months 2 weeks 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 5819 times:



Quoting ZuluTime (Reply 21):
Would it be unfair to start asking the US posters to take a marginally more balanced view of life on here?

No, but the following question was asked:

Quoting Aerofan (Reply 19):
I say let them launch the service- and may the best man win. Why would anyone in their right mind fly NW when they could fly BA or VS.

And it was answered. There's lots of people that would pick NW over BA or VS. And there's probably lots that would pick BA/VS over NW. It's a big market, so it's good to have choices.


User currently offlineThomsonfly From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2005, 229 posts, RR: 4
Reply 23, posted (6 years 11 months 2 weeks 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 5819 times:



Quoting ZuluTime (Reply 18):
VS have told staff that they have no aircraft to launch new routes until the 787s arrive - nothing likely. If they had aircraft, they could have launched a new route from LHR this year using the slots which they got in the deal with Air Jamaica. They haven't done so and have instead leased the slots out to Blue1 for Helsinki-Heathrow flights.

As VS crew, I've been told by management in a route specific meeting back in June - exactly the same.

Mark


User currently offlineAerofan From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 1517 posts, RR: 2
Reply 24, posted (6 years 11 months 2 weeks 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 5717 times:

RWSea

My question was "anyone in their right mind". I do not think of mileage whores as being in their right minds. You posit that people will fly NW because of their need for miles fix. Anyone who shows such loyalty to any carrier inspite of the shoddy service needs to have their heads examined.

You mention free booze etc as though that's a big thing - then again it's probably a big thing for US carriers - but so common with other non-us airliens that it's not even worth the mention.

Fortunately I have the ability to not fly in Y for any flight over 4 hours so I cannot attest to how comfortable or uncomfortable VS's and NW's product are . I dare argue though that more people would probably fly VS's and BA's Premium Economy before NW's Economy or even their J.

And when it comes to the J product well, that's really almost like discussing apples and oranges, isn't it?

So let VS enter the market. The more the merrier.


25 RwSEA : Which is exactly what I said. NW has superior Y, BA has superior J/F. But NW will do some damage to BA at least concerning SEA-based pax. NW's busine
26 EVA777SEA : Well obviously the airlines aren't too worried about it. You can't say for sure whether or not there is too much capacity on SEA-Europe until all the
27 Powercube : I have a crazy idea. We know that V-Australia wants to serve West-coast destinations that are ignored by QF/UA/AC, so if V-Australia serves SEA and ar
28 B752OS : Serving say SYD to LHR via SEA is much longer than serving SYD-LHR via SIN for example, to the tune of almost 2,000 miles. We'll have to wait an see.
29 ManchesterMAN : I agree in general that I would rather fly NW in economy (biz class is another matter though.) Just some points to mention though. 1) VS have a very
30 LHPDX : "Quoting LHPDX (Reply 17): If a new flight should be added to the northwest region it should be from PDX-LHR......Seattle has way to much capacity now
31 EVA777SEA : I have no idea where you got that from. Go look at the schedules on their website. It is daily again next summer, just with different flight numbers,
32 LHPDX : Got it from here....If the information is wrong it's my bad........ Joined: 02 Sep 2007 Posts: 24 Location: Honolulu, Portland Posted: Mon Jan 07, 200
33 Post contains images SANFan : On the contrary, Zulu', what we need is plenty of input on these US-centric threads from those around the world, such as yourself. A lot of the poste
34 RwSEA : It is. The flight was reduced seasonally, which was always the plan. It goes back up to daily in the Spring. AF put out press releases stating how we
35 VV701 : Perhaps. But BA does offer many more and VS quite a lot more flights beyond LHR to destinations in other parts of the world which some might think is
36 ER757 : I've also heard that AF is doing quite well on SEA/CDG. There was even talk of going with a 777 next summer due to higher than expected demand. Haven
37 ThreeIfByAir : January and February are always the worst two months of the year for SEA. We have no ski traffic to speak of, no special events, no Alaska cruise traf
38 EVA777SEA : Not to mention NW has a large FF base of their own in the SEA area.
39 RwSEA : Yep! I just scored a J class SEA-CAI this Spring, which was priced out at around $8k. Earned all those AS miles mostly by flying on DL, AA, NW, and o
40 Connector4you : Not really an advantage. BA's on time performance, lost luggage stats, overpriced seats beyond LHR, etc comes to mind.
41 Hotelmode : Virgin conveniently doesnt publish lost bag statistics or its punctuality. However from flightontime.info VS has an average delay in 2007 from LHR of
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