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DL/NWA Buzz..what Hub City Will Be Casualty?  
User currently offlineLowecur From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 585 posts, RR: 0
Posted (6 years 3 months 1 week 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 13680 times:

With rumors flying that these two will strike a deal by the end of the month, it will be interesting to see what hubs go by the wayside. My guess is SLC stays, and CVG and MEM go by the wayside. Planebusiness.com had this to say about the rumblings: "..First big rumor is actually a recurring rumor. Only this time it has more details. Delta-Northwest. Over the last week, we've received a number of pieces of intel from various folks on both the industry side and the financial side and it's all pointing in one direction -- that this deal could be announced this month. As I have said in the past, I think this one is going to happen. I mean, folks, remember it was me who said Richard Anderson was going to be the new CEO at Delta -- months before it was announced...Holly.

146 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineJetblueguy22 From United States of America, joined Nov 2007, 2648 posts, RR: 4
Reply 1, posted (6 years 3 months 1 week 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 13682 times:
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Quoting Lowecur (Thread starter):
As I have said in the past, I think this one is going to happen. I mean, folks, remember it was me who said Richard Anderson was going to be the new CEO at Delta -- months before it was announced...Holly.

Ok but what does this have to do with predicting a merger? The only people who know for sure are the upper level people at DL and NW. All we have to do is wait and see. I hope it doesn't happen and if it does they have like an Air France KLM deal type.
Blue



You push down on that yoke, the houses get bigger, you pull back on the yoke, the houses get bigger- Ken Foltz
User currently offlineGSPSPOT From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 2965 posts, RR: 2
Reply 2, posted (6 years 3 months 1 week 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 13615 times:

It's been too long with no new info or "leaks".... I don't think anything along this line will happen.


Finally made it to an airline mecca!
User currently offlineSTT757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 16691 posts, RR: 51
Reply 3, posted (6 years 3 months 1 week 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 13610 times:

CVG and MEM are small markets to begin with, the loss of hub status would not hurt as much in these communities as it has in places such as PIT and to some extent STL which are both bigger markets.

CVG would lose it's International flights as those aircraft would go to DTW to increase it's Trans-Atlantic and Latin American services. The combined DL/NWA would keep a token presence there (CVG) to continue to serve markets such as LGA, LAX, MCO etc.. However limited the DL/NWA presence would be at CVG post merger other airlines would fill much of the void, and even lower the airfares as has happened in places like PIT. WN, FL would probably go in with the typical set up, WN with flights to PHX, LAS, MCO, BWI and FL with flights to MCO, LAX etc..

Again with MEM it's a small market to begin with and a small hub, the loss of hub status would be offset to some degree with the introduction of WN and FL (which would also lower fares). WN to HOU, MCO, MSY, MDW, LAS, PHX, STL. FL to ATL and MCO.



Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
User currently offlineLowecur From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 585 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (6 years 3 months 1 week 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 13580 times:

Quoting Jetblueguy22 (Reply 1):
Ok but what does this have to do with predicting a merger? The only people who know for sure are the upper level people at DL and NW. All we have to do is wait and see. I hope it doesn't happen and if it does they have like an Air France KLM deal type.
Blue

Actually it's going to happen due to the economic downturn that is on the horizon. It's just a matter of whether it's within this administration or the next one. Strategically, DL/NWA would want to get this done within this administration, and hope any other mergers that are on the drawing board get stuck in limbo with the next administration. I think you will see the others try and step to the plate within 60 days of any announcement. They all have investment bankers hard at work looking into the possibilities.

The fact that Holly is getting feedback from the investment side adds further credence to this possibility. She talks with many people at all the investment houses and has contacts within mgt at all the carriers. Believe me, at this point....they all know what the other is up to because so many investment houses are involved.

These merger possibilities have plus' and minus' for small low cost carriers like B6, FL, and F9. It will also mean that WN will get the ball rolling on their merger plans, which may include FL, F9, or Alaska. B6 should have some wonderful choices on where to place a midpoint hub for their 190s, or they may choose to start talks with F9. All very interesting possibilities.

[Edited 2008-01-06 07:14:57]

User currently offlineXtoler From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 952 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (6 years 3 months 1 week 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 13474 times:

I don't believe the rumors of all these mergers. It's a scare tactic to make employees work harder for less money. But I wouldn't doubt Delta closing shop at CVG. I can definately see CVG turning into another PIT.


EMB145 F/A, F/E, J41 F/A, F/E, because my wife clipped my wings, armchair captain
User currently offlineLowecur From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 585 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (6 years 3 months 1 week 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 13416 times:

Wonder if LH will step to the plate to help B6 merge with F9 if WN elects to bid on F9? WN will go after a carrier that will financially hold the most synergies and strategically help to mitigate it's biggest threat domestically.

User currently offlineDavescj From United States of America, joined Jun 2007, 2292 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (6 years 3 months 1 week 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 13398 times:

I think if I were in biz and looking to merge, I'd DEFINATELY want approval before November elections. That said,

I think CVG and MEM would become MUCH smaller (focus cities at best, and largely RJ's at that) and MSP as a focus city, but with more mainline. ATL, DTW, JFK and SLC would stay hubs.

LAX, LGA, BOS, all of Florida would stay as is.

I think DL would get rid of NW Cargo, however. I could see it going to resolve anti trust issues and as a way of creating liquid $$ to finance the merger.

But this is complete and total speculation.

Dave



Can I have a mojito on this flight?
User currently offlineNwAflyer07 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (6 years 3 months 1 week 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 13291 times:



Quoting Xtoler (Reply 5):
It's a scare tactic to make employees work harder for less money.

Exactly how would threats of a merger make us work harder for less money?

I think that pretty much everyone agrees that MEM and CVG operations will be significantly reduced. I think SLC will stay the same, DTW will be built up (mostly internationally), and MSP will slightly reduce. As for ATL, im not too sure what would happen there. They may choose to reduce international routes in ATL allowing for europe-asia traffic to be routed directly through DTW, however ATL has a lot of businesses and needs decent intl routes. ATL will probably stay the same, imo. It will probably be the biggest domestic hub for the carrier and DTW will play the role of international gateway on top of it's domestic route network.

Guess we'll all just have to wait and see though. I'm not sure whether to be excited or to dread this announcement as i have no idea what a merger would have in store for my father's job at NW as well as mine.


User currently offlineSrbmod From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (6 years 3 months 1 week 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 13257 times:

The hubs at MEM and CVG would definitely be on the chopping block if there were to be a merger between the two airlines. But unlike when DL shuttered their DFW hub, there's going to be someone coming in and starting a sizable operation at MEM and CVG.


MEM:
WN almost immediately spring to mind at MEM. As does FL and F9. And pretty much all of the smaller cities NW Airlink flies to out of MEM, Delta Connection serves out of ATL.

Quoting STT757 (Reply 3):
FL to ATL and MCO.

They already serve those routes.

I could see them adding service to LAX, LAS, SEA, SAN, SFO, PHX, BOS, IAD, CAK, MDW, TPA, EWR, and HOU. Or as part of a joint hub with F9, they could serve eastern cities while F9 would serve western cities (That is if the rumors of an FL/F9 codeshare being in the cards comes true.).

CVG:

This one has me thinking JetBlue or AirTran. I'm leaning towards FL because they are looking to build up a hub somewhere in that region. JetBlue really does have a bit of a gap in the Midwest that needs to be filled at some point. If DL/NW were to pull down the DL hub there, leaving only flights to hubs, that would leave a large opportunity for someone. CVG is pretty much a Delta Connection than Delta hub these days anyway, with Comair and Chautauqua separately operating more flights into/out of CVG than DL does. And like with NW's hub at MEM, the Delta Connection flights @ MEM are already served out of DTW, MSP, or ATL.


User currently offlineBelizexp From Belize, joined Dec 2005, 373 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (6 years 3 months 1 week 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 13261 times:



Quoting JetBlueGuy2006 (Reply 8):
JFK

DL needs JFK as a Hud with all the Int flts MSP would be downgraded before JFK.



Belize my home sweet home...
User currently offlineSLCUT2777 From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 3993 posts, RR: 11
Reply 11, posted (6 years 3 months 1 week 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 13217 times:



Quoting Lowecur (Thread starter):
With rumors flying that these two will strike a deal by the end of the month

With fuel prices gushing at $100.00(USD) per barrel, and putting carriers on the edge of going from the first significant profits in 5-6 years to losses, the pressure is mounting considerably.

Quoting Lowecur (Thread starter):
My guess is SLC stays

While I think SLC will stay as a hub, but how much it does internationally will depend on what is done about SEA. NW has a fairly significant presence in SEA, and I could even see the combined carrier for example shifting any and all of SLC's Canadian flights (YVR, YYC, YEG & YYZ) to SEA to take advantage of the larger O&D market there.

Quoting Lowecur (Reply 6):
Wonder if LH will step to the plate to help B6 merge with F9 if WN elects to bid on F9? WN will go after a carrier that will financially hold the most synergies and strategically help to mitigate it's biggest threat domestically.

I think WN will go after FL, and F9 and B6 will get together via the LH proposition if that happens.



DELTA Air Lines; The Only Way To Fly from Salt Lake City; Let the Western Heritage always be with Delta!
User currently offlineLowecur From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 585 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (6 years 3 months 1 week 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 13069 times:

Quoting Srbmod (Reply 10):
This one has me thinking JetBlue or AirTran

Nah, B6 is really looking to start something out West. They want to get a 190 program that can both connect the East/West and build up a network of flights connecting the Southwest USA with the NW and anything in between. The more I think about it, B6 doesn't want to get into a bidding war with anyone for F9, although if they can grab it cheap....it may happen. IMO, they just need to be patient and see how all this plays out, then make their move.

If UAL/CAL get together, then it's my guess you could see a reduction at DIA to a focus for UAL. B6 could then p/u some gates as they become available. This is one option of a myriad that will be presented as this all plays out.

[Edited 2008-01-06 08:44:14]

User currently offlineSxf24 From United States of America, joined Aug 2007, 1250 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (6 years 3 months 1 week 6 days ago) and read 12994 times:



Quoting SLCUT2777 (Reply 12):
While I think SLC will stay as a hub, but how much it does internationally will depend on what is done about SEA. NW has a fairly significant presence in SEA, and I could even see the combined carrier for example shifting any and all of SLC's Canadian flights (YVR, YYC, YEG & YYZ) to SEA to take advantage of the larger O&D market there.

Why would DL/NW jeopardize a very strong partnership with AS/QX?


User currently offline4everRC From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 322 posts, RR: 1
Reply 14, posted (6 years 3 months 1 week 6 days ago) and read 12952 times:

After reading the comments in this thread, I have to make the same statement that I have in every one of the other threads...

People need to stop assuming that DL will be the surviving carrier in this merger scenario - that is NOT a forgone conclusion.



Nobody served our republic like Republic!
User currently offlineBobnwa From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 6344 posts, RR: 9
Reply 15, posted (6 years 3 months 1 week 6 days ago) and read 12946 times:



Quoting NwAflyer07 (Reply 9):
Guess we'll all just have to wait and see though. I'm not sure whether to be excited or to dread this announcement as i have no idea what a merger would have in store for my father's job at NW as well as mine.

When do we get the evidence that there is an announcement. You seem to be the only NWA employee that knows so, and there are many on this board.


User currently offlineThreepoint From Canada, joined Oct 2005, 2127 posts, RR: 9
Reply 16, posted (6 years 3 months 1 week 6 days ago) and read 12819 times:



Quoting Jetblueguy22 (Reply 1):
The only people who know for sure are the upper level people at DL and NW.

And, if there's any credence to the rumour, a hundred or more lawyers, investment bankers, analysts, assistants, etc.

Quoting Xtoler (Reply 5):
I don't believe the rumors of all these mergers. It's a scare tactic to make employees work harder for less money.

Corporate mergers are hardly scare tactics these days. We've seen too many blockbuster deals in the past few years and managers know that they can only cry wolf once. Besides, if we look at airline mergers only, I fail to see any evidence that employees actually work any harder than they did before. In fact, generally, it's the opposite.



The nice thing about a mistake is the pleasure it gives others.
User currently offlineXbraniffone From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 80 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (6 years 3 months 1 week 6 days ago) and read 12790 times:

Why would they drop MEM and CVG as a hub and give the LCC another "leg up" in the industry? Don't those hubs make money?

I think they will use some synergies but to drop them as hubs, I don't think so.

My personal opinion is that if a merger between DL and NW occurs it will be like a KLM/AF. Merging the two employee bases will be very difficult. NW employees are notoriously difficult to deal with (Unions and senority) Customer service, would be severly hurt by the unhappy employees and this is not the time to piss off more of the public than they already are.

The whole thing is so complicated that non of us know.

Mergers have to happen though. That's a given



DC3 8 9 10, 1011, BAC111, 707 720 727 737 747 757 767 777 A319 320 330 340
User currently offlineMir From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 21085 posts, RR: 56
Reply 18, posted (6 years 3 months 1 week 6 days ago) and read 12789 times:

I would hope that JFK gets downgraded domestically while maintaining its international presence. The NYC area can support it, and all those RJs aren't very good for congestion.

Quoting STT757 (Reply 3):
CVG and MEM are small markets to begin with, the loss of hub status would not hurt as much in these communities as it has in places such as PIT and to some extent STL which are both bigger markets.

Might even help those communities as it would break the monopoly that they have and help reduce fares.

-Mir



7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
User currently offlineSESGDL From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 3452 posts, RR: 10
Reply 19, posted (6 years 3 months 1 week 6 days ago) and read 12656 times:



Quoting Davescj (Reply 7):
I think CVG and MEM would become MUCH smaller (focus cities at best, and largely RJ's at that) and MSP as a focus city, but with more mainline. ATL, DTW, JFK and SLC would stay hubs.

As MSP is NW's largest O&D market and largest mainline city, MSP will not be downgraded. According to people inside NW, MSP is their most profitable North American hub simply due to the large O&D market and near monopoly with almost no sizable low-cost carriers. Expect MSP to stay largely the size it is, there's no hubs that really compete with it in this merger scenario.

Quoting 4everRC (Reply 15):
People need to stop assuming that DL will be the surviving carrier in this merger scenario - that is NOT a forgone conclusion.

DL will, mark my words, WILL be the surviving carrier. DL's market stature is far and away larger than NW and DL has the second largest frequent flier base of any airline on earth. Outside of their hubs and Amsterdam and Japan, NW is largely a secondary player. In nearly every big market DL is more well known: ATL, DFW, NYC, BOS, MIA/FLL, Philly, D.C., LA, Bay Area, etc.

Jeremy


User currently offlineColumba From Germany, joined Dec 2004, 7027 posts, RR: 4
Reply 20, posted (6 years 3 months 1 week 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 12430 times:

One thing can be sure a DL/NW merger would mean the end of the NW Dc 9.


It will forever be a McDonnell Douglas MD 80 , Boeing MD 80 sounds so wrong
User currently offlineJetBlueGuy2006 From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 1630 posts, RR: 1
Reply 21, posted (6 years 3 months 1 week 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 12356 times:



Quoting SESGDL (Reply 20):
DL will, mark my words, WILL be the surviving carrier. DL's market stature is far and away larger than NW and DL has the second largest frequent flier base of any airline on earth. Outside of their hubs and Amsterdam and Japan, NW is largely a secondary player. In nearly every big market DL is more well known: ATL, DFW, NYC, BOS, MIA/FLL, Philly, D.C., LA, Bay Area, etc.

Wow, do you have some inside track to information that the rest of us don't? You seem pretty confident in yourself.... How many people in AMS or NRT even know who DL is? I can say that it is a ton less than who know NW. NW has a huge Asian presence that won't necessarily translate into flyers for DL.

Now, I am not saying in the end DL wouldn't be the surviving carrier, it may very well be, but to make such a concrete unchangeable assumption is just not smart. What is to say that NW and DL, if anything were to happen, would take the others name. For all we know, they could do what AF/KL do. It would allow each carrier to retain its strengths as it wouldn't show the average customer any difference. Both NW and DL would "survive" even if under one parent company.



Home Airport: Capital Region International Airport (KLAN)
User currently offlineIsitsafenow From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 4984 posts, RR: 24
Reply 22, posted (6 years 3 months 1 week 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 12299 times:

Now if you really want to do some skull searching, try and figure out the puzzle of Comair, ASA, Pinnicle, Mesaba and
Compass and how they fit into NW/DL.. I'm thinking the odd man out is either Comair or ASA. What do you think?
safe



If two people agree on EVERYTHING, then one isn't necessary.
User currently offlineJetBlueGuy2006 From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 1630 posts, RR: 1
Reply 23, posted (6 years 3 months 1 week 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 12206 times:



Quoting Isitsafenow (Reply 23):
I'm thinking the odd man out is either Comair or ASA. What do you think?

I would think that ASA would be the odd man out as Comair, Mesaba, and Compass are wholly owned, Pinnacle does flying for both.

ASA seems to be the odd one out. Kind of the runt of the litter



Home Airport: Capital Region International Airport (KLAN)
User currently offlineSESGDL From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 3452 posts, RR: 10
Reply 24, posted (6 years 3 months 1 week 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 12084 times:



Quoting JetBlueGuy2006 (Reply 22):
How many people in AMS or NRT even know who DL is?

In the grand scheme of things, AMS is really very unimportant in a the DL/NW potential merger scenario. DL serves AMS as well and is also a Skyteam member, so as long as they funnel passengers through AMS the name is really unimportant. NRT is a different situation, but a slow transition would take place which would allow Japanese customers to become more acquainted with the DL brand. It could end up like AF-KL with both carriers as surviving entities, but DL will be in control and will undoubtedly have their name and brand plastered on all the signs.

Jeremy


25 Joost : NW does not have such a brand awareness in the Netherlands. Actually, NW does not do any advertisement at all, whereas DL does. Simply because all ad
26 Bobnwa : I disagree, mergers do not have happen and its far from a given. I know its the up to date thing to say on this board, but is far from fact. Please e
27 Indy : I would agree MEM is likely dead with the merger. CVG also. But the market size of CVG is pretty close to PIT. Problem for CVG is that DL has price l
28 USAirALB : BDL would be a pretty big focus city for the combined airlines. Currently from BDL on DL: CMH,LAX,ATL,CVG,MCO,RSW(seasonal),PBI,FLL,TPA,JFK,CUN(season
29 Srbmod : I don't think MEM would raise that big of a ruckus. NW is not MEM, FX is. In terms of jobs, the way FX is growing, the NW employees that opt not to t
30 Lowecur : This merger will be presented on a platform of survival of the US airline industry as we know it. If the economy goes into recession, and IMO that it
31 Indy : I disagree with that. There is a great deal they can say. There is a great deal they will say. CVG especially has a lot to lose if this deal goes thr
32 WorldTraveler : bingo. They may restructure the schedule and drop/downsize some more markets but they are not pulling out of the markets. CVG could sustain int'l fli
33 Bucky707 : I believe the above statement is 100% correct. If any airline merges and then takes a lot of capacity out, they are just accelerating their own demis
34 Lowecur : So in essence you are saying the regulators will view the parts as greater than the sum? This isn't a regular M&A environment we are dealing with. Mo
35 Lowecur : Elimination of duplication is at the head of the class when considering the advantages of a merger. This will include both operational and managerial
36 WorldTraveler : which is why the network carriers have pulled capacity out of non-competitive markets in the past several years not in markets where LCCs exist or ca
37 Lowecur : The thing is, if fuel keeps going up and the economy tanks, legacys have already said they will park the a/c that are not fuel efficient......meaning
38 Lowecur : Yeah, but would it make more sense financially to consolidate both at this point, with one being the eventual winner? Got to believe you are going to
39 PITIngres : Say rather, an attempt at self-fulfulling prophecy by the merger & acquisition people who stand to make a bundle off of such things. And a merger is
40 WorldTraveler : it is a mistake to think that LCCs are not going to have to reduce capacity. They may have lower costs but they also fly routes that fit those costs;
41 Post contains images Davescj : I didn't know that. This is dumb, but why? What is the attraction? or is it simply that MSP folk travel a great deal? DL mgmt has said consistently I
42 LawnDart : In the United States, especially in the northeast, the southeast, Florida, Texas and the southwest, people know Delta. In Mexico...the Caribbean, Sou
43 Srbmod : As part of the deal Delta made with SkyWest to buy ASA, if Delta drops ASA and/or SkyWest as a Delta Connection carrier within 4 years of the close o
44 STT757 : US started out with that thinking with regards to PIT, they found out quickly once you start to downsize (even if to small regional markets) it has a
45 FlyPNS1 : You can, but you'll still leave the door wide open for LCC's. Take a look at Boston, where DL, AA and US all have focus cities designed to cater to t
46 Floridaflyboy : There's no way they'd downgrade SLC all the way to a focus city. SLC is a vitally important part of the DL network, and there's a lot to lose by down
47 DLPhoenix : There are several interest groups that will benefit from airline mergers. They will keep spreading rumors (and promote their agenda in other ways) ver
48 BNinMSY : Does anyone think this will really get past the Fed's?
49 Earlj : This potential merger would create terrible fleet integration issues, as NW is primarily an Airbus company and DL is clearly Boeing. Would require alo
50 BigGSFO : OK, I'll play along... Hubs, in order of size/build-up: ATL, DTW, MSP, SLC, JFK Intl hub at AMS - I wouldn't be surprised if the new carrier will laun
51 DeltaL1011man : nope Delta Air Lines will be the name i disagree i see it becoming Delta Cargo delta name=bye-bye Unions Delta is the name Delta is much larger plus
52 Indy : It might be free enterprise but there are also anti trust provisions in our law.
53 Centrair : I will say what I have posted in the other 100 threads about a DL/NW merger. What needs to happen is not the traditional merger but one where there is
54 Falcon84 : A side question: would a combined NW/DL keep it's "golden share" on CO's board, to block any merger? Or would that pretty much end that relationship,
55 DeltaL1011man : add Delta'TechOps to that list as they are one of (if not the)largestest MX insourceing companys in the USA(only AA's could be biger)
56 TUIflyer : Not to rain on the parade or go off-topic but are NW and DL really that compatible and is the environment really right for a meger. I mean both are ju
57 Airbusaddict : I agree with you 100%. I doubt there is going to be any merger announcment in the coming days. Better yet months. NW is just being built back up and
58 SLCUT2777 : If anything, a DL/NW combo will enhance it. Both carriers code-share with AS with their respective flights to SEA. QX would be the big winner if DL/O
59 Airbusaddict : On the DC-9's and Compass, Mesaba, etc. thing I agree with you. But I still see the A330 staying in the fleet, but trying to even off the 777's and 3
60 Sxf24 : Why would you give up profitable routes to a codeshare partner?
61 SLCUT2777 : AS/QX are VERY small in the national spectrum of airline service and getting connection passengers is vital. DL/NW would benefit them more than compe
62 SLCUT2777 : With stock prices continuing to tank, and oil prices rising and staying high for the immediate future, along with pressure from short-term hedge-fund
63 Gigneil : And they will fly what? And why would they do that? Have you ever heard of either of those things ever happening once? An order sold to a 3rd party?
64 DeltaL1011man : DALPA and TechOps will want the Scarebus gone ASAP i would bet that Delta WILL order 777s and 737s to replace the buses again DALPA wont let them sta
65 Klkla : Actually an economic downturn would probably be the catalyst that would lead to mergers. The theory goes that the airlines would be able to reduce re
66 DeltaL1011man : thats easy ask a Delta pilot and look at what happened to the brand new PA A310s.......Delta hates scarebus and loves Boeing Delta will get a great d
67 Mariner : I find it rather bizarre to refer to the extremely successful A330 or the A320 as a "Scarebus", but whatever rings your bell. And if Delta did merge
68 DeltaL1011man : after hearing all the storys from my grandpa's(one exDL MX and 1 exUA ramp) and both worked bus's and hearing the storys about those airplanes.......
69 Rwy04LGA : You might be the only one who doesn't think so. That's been my opinion as well. I agree, dump the Airbii but keep the 738s and increase the 737-700 o
70 Mariner : As I said, whatever rings your bell. I just find it bizarre. Oh, and by the way - If - stress "if" - Delta bids for NWA, then it is likely NWA stock
71 Gigneil : Except that doesn't make any business sense at all, and the airline isn't run by the 13-15 age bracket on airliners.net. Choices like that is why the
72 PSU.DTW.SCE : YOU HAVE GOT TO BE KIDDING ME. That single action alone would wipe out any single savings of a mergered entity. You simply do not go and replace rela
73 Gigneil : You mean Pan Am's original A310-200s? I know what happened, Delta placed an order for new A310-300s and continued to fly them until the more capable
74 DeltaL1011man : thats why I'm 17 smart ass and so because I'm 17 that makes me stupid? Thats a load of crap BTW dude please tell me your joking.......Boeing will pre
75 Airbusaddict : And This is Coming from L1011 Man who hates Northwest because it operates "Scarebus". Well, I think NW is almost just as cheap as Delta. Only Around
76 DeltaL1011man : im sorry Delta HATED the A310s ask anyone who worked for Delta at the time and im pretty sure those where PA order A310s not Delta but i'm not saying
77 Gigneil : "Delta hates Scarebus" as the answer to a well thought out question. Nuff said. Again, why? I told you why they would not. You tell me why they would
78 STT757 : Change of ownership at NWA kills the Golden Share, it is not transferable. Even if it were the DOJ would require it's disposition as part of an appro
79 DeltaL1011man : i don't hate NW and i dont hate Scarebus........i think a DL/NW would be the best of the merge options for Delta i was just pointing out the fact the
80 DeltaL1011man : thats why the DALPA had a meeting right after the UA scare and told everyone that ANY bus's wil be gone ASAP and thats why there are so many dam Scar
81 Sxf24 : He's not joking. DL's currently scheduled deliveries can use slots from previous orders and options. Even if Boeing were to accommodate DL, there is
82 Tornado82 : In the process they'd cannibalize their successful DAY and to a lesser extent IND operations. Don't forget DAY also draws from CMH... CVG is a long d
83 Sxf24 : DL does not "not like" Airbus and US doesn't hate Boeing.
84 DeltaL1011man : right thats why Delta has so many Airbus and thats why US will be replacing all Boeing with Airbus guys airlines dont have to like Airbus or Boeing i
85 Sxf24 : Its business, not personal. US invited, and listened to, proposals from Boeing. DL has done the same in the past. DL has a significant number of 738s
86 DeltaL1011man : not true DL had 47 738s on order and sold 45 a took 2 this year the 73Gs were a new order and my point was that the 737 is "sold out" and again i thi
87 WingnutMN : I see a combined carrier keeping the A330's for the very reason that if they do combine, they will need even more international capacity to expand. DT
88 Post contains links Sxf24 : http://www.iht.com/articles/2006/12/07/business/delta.php
89 WorldTraveler : yes, and I'm not sure DL ever wanted to save DFW. It was also a competitive hub, as was DEN. CVG and MEM are not. BOS is a much larger market than CV
90 STT757 : I'm not really versed in the history of DL at DFW, but I can say that the Denver hub is sorely missed at CO to this day.
91 DeltaL1011man : which i a little bit of a shame i would like to see more A332s ordered for LAX and SEA to Asia and the routes that are a little to long for a 763ER w
92 Breaker1011 : Always surprises me that folks have to start by agonizing over "geez not another thread on XYZ" and then what do they do? Type a book.
93 Airbusaddict : Here is A Chart: DELTA AIRLINES: 737-700: 10 Orders 737-800: 71 On Hand, 40 Orders TOTAL CURRENTLY: 71 TOTAL FUTURE: 121 NORTHWEST AIRLINES: A319: 57
94 Post contains images Super80DFW : If a DL/NW merger was to happen, I think this is how it would happen- HUBS: ATL SLC DTW MSP Bye Bye MEM, CVG LAX would be their very far west Focus Ci
95 MAH4546 : Which one is it, PIT or STL? STL is still a hub. PIT isn't. STL has over 200 daily flights on AA to about 70 cities. People forget it is still a dece
96 Post contains images Warszawa : Assume a DL/NW merger occured, can we expect yet another new DL livery?
97 Post contains images NWA757300 : I don't know. The widget on the tail of the Delta planes is red and does point to the northwest. hmmmmm
98 Columba : Doubtful, with a 737RS and A320NG on the rise in 2015 they won´t dump any A320 in favor for the 737NG. Most likely they will order a common replac
99 Post contains images QantasHeavy : Clearly Delta is positioning for this take over because it will give them an excuse to once again change their paint scheme ... afterall, it has been
100 Rwy04LGA : Those planes had to be painted anyway. Even if the paint scheme had NOT changed, the painting would've still occured. There was little, if any, extra
101 WorldTraveler : NW needs a/c that can fly from their interior hubs to Asia, something the 330 can't do. If it's DL and NW, the 787 and 77LR will open a host of new r
102 Halls120 : I don't. That really worked out well for Daimler Benz and Chrysler, didn't it? There are a few of us. We just don't think anybody with merger fever i
103 Gsosbee : It will. The financial health of an industry sector is as important as perceived monopoly issues. The level of competition in the US airline industry
104 QantasHeavy : You know what I mean by a zillion; it's a figure of speech. Sorry, I will write to the lowest common denominator English next time. Also, you did not
105 DiscoverCSG : And THAT, ladies and gentlemen, would truly mean the end of airliners.net
106 Halls120 : Just like they approved the US/UA merger a few years ago, right? Just like the Sirius/XM radio merger is progressing without a hitch, right?
107 FWA2500 : a voice of reason.....i fully agree that said....i still dont think there will be a merger any time soon.
108 WingnutMN : One more thing to throw into this debate about fleets...Richard Anderson was with NW when the A330's were ordered, and all of the A320's were continua
109 Gsosbee : As has been stated many times in many threads, the US/UA merger was in a different time under different circumstances. Also, I believe that the narra
110 FlyPNS1 : Not comparable. At the time of the proposed UA/US merger, airfares were at record highs and airlines had been raking in billions of profits. It was h
111 Isitsafenow : That one WILL happen because they are both in the red. Uncle Sam's view on mergers is if one or both have a track record of red ink, the merger will,
112 Post contains images Halls120 : Yeah, that's right. There aren't any competitors to Sirius and XM. All those FM and AM stations have vanished. But you are right in a sense. It is ap
113 PSU.DTW.SCE : Moot point. The history and reason for NW going to Airbus product was long before the Richard Anderson era. The A320 goes back to the late 80's, and
114 DeltaL1011man : he has ordered 2 77Ls while at Delta.......he is told by the BOD what to buy(he just says"hey i like the Airbus A3XX" then the BOD and shareholders(m
115 Mariner : The BOD is supposed to protect share value for all shareholders - and the creditors - not just one. If Boeing knows they'll get the order no matter w
116 Post contains images LawnDart : Price fixing?!? Aren't there laws against that? Listen, there are, what, 6 "megacarriers" now, and even with fuel costs at record levels, it's a mira
117 Indy : I for one personally hope this merger doesn't go through. I haven't accumulated a ton of miles with NW like I'm sure many people have but I'm coming u
118 Srbmod : Delta ditched the A310s because Airbus pretty much ignored them in terms of tech support. And nobody has an iPod (or other comparable PMP) or listens
119 Lexy : Which will put you on a jungle jet on 90% of their domestic routes. LOL!!! That is your choice, but I see no need in dodging ATL at all.
120 Post contains images CO767FA : Oh yeah...right
121 Lexy : Okay, fine. Unless you are going to their hubs, FLL, LAS, LAX, or the largest of the large cities in this country you are on a jungle jet. There are
122 MrSTL : DL/NW DTW, MSP, MEM, CVG, ATL, JFK, SLC, (IND as a focus) and MKE and MCI with Midwest= one hell of an airline-- with the exception of JFK they will c
123 DeltaL1011man : ok big share holders: Boeing, GE, P&W AMEX DALPA and the banks (like JP Morgan type(note i don't know if JP is one just an example) how would picking
124 Airbusaddict : Because NW owns almost Half of the whole airline (40%). Soon enough NW might invest a little more money into YX, but who knows.
125 Mariner : It may not help any other shareholders - but it would obviously help Boeing. Once again, it is a function of the BOD to represent the interests of al
126 DeltaL1011man : is it all NW or is it NW and others? LH owns part of B6 so are they mergering? but my point is it would help Boeing and GE and make stock go up (as m
127 Mariner : But that should not be a concern of the Delta BOD. They should be protecting their own shareholders, maximising their own shareholder value. I though
128 Gsosbee : I hope you really don't believe this is how it works. The BOD listens to the presentation; asks 5 real and 15,000 stupid questions; and then generall
129 DeltaL1011man : it will be great for 2 maybe 3(boeing GE and PW) and DALPA will be happy and make stock go up which is good for all (note Boeing GE and PW are shareh
130 Breaker1011 : I've been through ATL at least 300 times in the past two decades - never understood why so many feel this way. It's clean, modern, a visual paradise
131 JohnClipper : DL took the PA A310-200s and A310-300ETs and then turned around and ordered more A310-300ETs.
132 Mariner : It seems silly to be discussing a plane doesn't fit the mission. If you are telling me that Delta wouldn't buy the A321 to replace the 757, fine, I'm
133 Breaker1011 : To your point, I've been watching the market caps lately across the board. DL is presently within $100MM or so of both UA and AA, and at times on the
134 Alitalia744 : The BOD and Management will look to/are looking at maximizing shareholder value within the scheme that protects the best interest of the shareholders,
135 Mariner : I give Delta management credit for a lot of things. But I wouldn't give them any credit at all if they: mariner
136 Breaker1011 : here here! The A vs. B gets so much unwarranted and even ridiculous attention.
137 Indy : It is a hike to get through that airport. You have a great chance that your flight will be delayed. And the concourses are a bit boring. It just feel
138 Breaker1011 : Guess it's a matter of luck then - like I said, I connect or O/D at ATL at least a dozen times per year and seem to have avoided any and every hangup
139 Indy : Oddly enough none of the delays were weather related. All four flights were delayed due to mechanical problems. WTF. That is putting all planets into
140 Vatveng : Having gone through ATL over a dozen times last year, I have to agree. You could do MUCH worse than Hartsfield. Easy connections, decent food, and wa
141 Columba : Again, I don´t think the A319/A320 will be phased out after a potential merger, it would be the Dc 9s and MDs that will be gone first and maybe so
142 Boeing7E7 : MSP - No Change DTW - Europe/Domestic CVG - Domestic Hub (not unlike SLC today) MEM - Toast/Gone IND - No more focus New Hub? No, but SLC expansion wi
143 Jetlanta : In either a UA or NW merger with DL, the Airbus aircraft would live out their useful life in the combined carrier's fleet. There is simply no economic
144 Bucky707 : Jetlanta is right. Nothing radical is going to happen in any merger scenario. Small numbers of aircraft may be parked, most likely as he said, as lea
145 Indy : I agree with MEM and IND. CVG will be toast as well. And no way does DTW get changed at all. If anything they will pick up traffic from CVG. ATL cert
146 Post contains images Isitsafenow : I went thru the airTran section on the C Dec 9th. Looks pretty nice and BUSY safe
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