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US Carrier To Benefit Most With Cuba  
User currently offlineBP1 From United States of America, joined Aug 2007, 593 posts, RR: 1
Posted (6 years 3 months 1 week 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 7674 times:

If, and on if, in the next 5 years normal and scheduled service is legally permitted,between the US and Cuba (outside of the charters today), which airline(s) has the most to benefit from Cuba? I realize several non US carrier already fly to Cuba, but the root of the question is, will it be American with the dominance from Miami or will Jet Blue try some JFK flights?

What are your thoughts?

Regards,
BP1


"First To Fly The A-380" / 26 October 2007 SYD-SIN Inaugural
85 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineUAL777UK From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2005, 3356 posts, RR: 1
Reply 1, posted (6 years 3 months 1 week 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 7664 times:

I would have thought it would easily be AA out of MIA.

User currently offlineN587NK From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 298 posts, RR: 1
Reply 2, posted (6 years 3 months 1 week 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 7666 times:

NK from FLL...if were not bought out by US first(praying....let it happen already)

User currently offlineKFLLCFII From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 3288 posts, RR: 31
Reply 3, posted (6 years 3 months 1 week 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 7612 times:



Quoting N587NK (Reply 2):
NK from FLL

First thing that came to mind.

But no doubt American would have a strong presence out of MIA with the major Cuban community of Miami-Dade county.



"About the only way to look at it, just a pity you are not POTUS KFLLCFII, seems as if we would all be better off."
User currently offlineJuventus From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 2835 posts, RR: 2
Reply 4, posted (6 years 3 months 1 week 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 7602 times:



Quoting UAL777UK (Reply 1):

I think so, AA from MIA. DL and/or US might look at possbile flights from Orlando. NK from FLL.


User currently offlineBigGSFO From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 2887 posts, RR: 6
Reply 5, posted (6 years 3 months 1 week 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 7577 times:

AA would benefit most. In theory, if there was open sky-type of agreement, I'd expect to see AA and Eagle launch flights from MIA to 7 or 8 Cuban cities. AA would probably also launch HAV flights from FLL, JFK, DFW and possibly LAX and SJU.

DL, NK, B6, CO, US would probably all benefit too, from their respective hubs/gateways.


User currently offlineRP TPA From United States of America, joined Oct 1999, 852 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (6 years 3 months 1 week 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 7572 times:

Here's an interesting scenario:

How about Air Canada? Yes, I know they aren't a US carrier, but the US-Canada bilateral agreement would allow them to fly from Canada into a US city, then onto a 3rd country. Obviously this can't happen until the US opens up air travel to Cuba, but theoretically AC could fly into one of the *A hubs and then to Cuba. Also, don't forget that AC already has a presence in Cuba, so a lot of the infrstructure is in place.


User currently offline727LOVER From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 5958 posts, RR: 17
Reply 7, posted (6 years 3 months 1 week 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 7550 times:

Does UA have rights, thru PA & through NA?


Listen Betty, don't start up with your 'White Zone' s*** again.
User currently offlineBigGSFO From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 2887 posts, RR: 6
Reply 8, posted (6 years 3 months 1 week 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 7513 times:



Quoting 727LOVER (Reply 7):
Does UA have rights, thru PA & through NA?

No US carrier has rights to offer scheduled service to Cuba. I would assume these dormant authorities have long since expired or were rendered useless when the embargo was enacted.


User currently offlineSuper80DFW From United States of America, joined Oct 2007, 1661 posts, RR: 11
Reply 9, posted (6 years 3 months 1 week 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 7496 times:

I would imagine AA would start flights to HAV from MIA, SJU, and DFW. Is there any chance that US cities will see Cubana?


"Things change, friends leave, life doesn't stop for anybody." -- EAT'EM UP EAT'EM UP KSU!!
User currently offlineB4REAL From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 2611 posts, RR: 6
Reply 10, posted (6 years 3 months 1 week 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 7499 times:

AA would clearly be the leader. DL would be #2, CO/US/NK would straggle in in my opinion.

I 'fantasize' of a normalized relation with Cuba, I'd see 4 or 5 daily flights on AA to HAV from MIA on 737 and from JFK 2x on 757/AB6.

We're getting ahead of ourselves I guess.

[Edited 2008-01-09 08:48:32]


B4REAL, spelled like it sounds
User currently offlineSLCUT2777 From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 3993 posts, RR: 11
Reply 11, posted (6 years 3 months 1 week 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 7404 times:



Quoting B4REAL (Reply 10):
AA would clearly be the leader. DL would be #2, CO/US/NK would straggle in in my opinion.

 checkmark 
Besides south Florida and the greater NYC metro area, what other airports will see flights?

Quoting B4REAL (Reply 10):
We're getting ahead of ourselves I guess.

I think this will come sooner rather than later.



DELTA Air Lines; The Only Way To Fly from Salt Lake City; Let the Western Heritage always be with Delta!
User currently offlineBobnwa From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 6346 posts, RR: 9
Reply 12, posted (6 years 3 months 1 week 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 7395 times:



Quoting SLCUT2777 (Reply 11):
I think this will come sooner rather than later.

I believe I read that 20 years ago and then again 15 years ago.


User currently offlineBP1 From United States of America, joined Aug 2007, 593 posts, RR: 1
Reply 13, posted (6 years 3 months 1 week 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 7301 times:

Interesting about Air Canada. If Air Canada already has that right, then why are they not using that to fly on-wards to other countries from the USA?

Regards,
BP1



"First To Fly The A-380" / 26 October 2007 SYD-SIN Inaugural
User currently offlineAAJFKSJUBKLYN From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 886 posts, RR: 1
Reply 14, posted (6 years 3 months 1 week 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 7296 times:

EWR- Huge Cuban population, and I am sure this would go to CO

User currently offlineEMB170 From United States of America, joined Nov 2007, 644 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (6 years 3 months 1 week 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 7182 times:

Agree about AA. Given their presence in MIA, SJU, and NYC, they would stand the most to gain. I've wondered this myself, if after AA, B6 wouldn't stand the most to gain, given where they seem to be placing their eggs these days. I've also thought that B6 (and possibly FL, but that's long down the road) might also have an advantage in getting rights seeing as how they are LFCs (and the DOT likes to spread the wealth when it can).


Can passenger jets fly as fast as my feet do? Let's find out...
User currently offlineServisair From United States of America, joined Jul 2006, 37 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (6 years 3 months 1 week 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 7136 times:

Actually, UA is the "ONLY" US carrier with the rights to fly to Cuba when the market opens up. They got the rights when they took over PA and it is still valid.

How do I know? I was with UA in MIA at the time of the take over and part of the agreements. I think when it does open up that AA would be the first in line to get the rights to fly.



30 Yeras in the Biz...
User currently offlineEALSYS1 From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 229 posts, RR: 13
Reply 17, posted (6 years 3 months 1 week 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 7127 times:

AA would definitely be in a great position with their MIA hub. Cuba can be reached by AE as well so it seems like AA would be a no brainer!

Can anyone else see a situation where AA or someone else picks up some 744D's or other large aircraft and set them up in a domestic configuration for what should be high density/high frequency flights from MIA to HAV ?

I'd be on these flights a lot! Of course I'm looking forward to these flights after the fall of the dictatorship!  Smile

[Edited 2008-01-09 10:47:58]

User currently offlineLTU932 From Germany, joined Jan 2006, 13864 posts, RR: 50
Reply 18, posted (6 years 3 months 1 week 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 7119 times:



Quoting BP1 (Thread starter):
US Carrier To Benefit Most With Cuba

That's a no brainer for me: AA would make a fortune with those shuttle flights between MIA and Cuba, even if it's just VFR traffic. Plus throw in some MQ regional service and they may have a winning combination.


User currently offlineHiflyer From United States of America, joined Nov 2004, 2153 posts, RR: 3
Reply 19, posted (6 years 3 months 1 week 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 7045 times:

The Eagle ATR fleet is perfect for Cuba ops on a quick short term basis....in fact they do a lot of it now under the charters.

If travel barriers fall then expect Cuba to become the next hot spot for tourists due to low prices....in that case all major hubs would be good points for service to HAV and 1 or two larger resort towns....Jamaica, Bahamas, Cayman, and the Dominican Republic would lose business initially until prices equaled and the 'thrill' was gone.

However...remember it takes 2 to tango on intl routes...the question is would Cuba agree to open skies or want to protect Cubana? I would suspect an initial limited agreement protecting Cubana...probably allowing it to align with a major carrier for upgrading Cubana in turn for full island access.

Remember also that cruise ships would flood in as well....especially as they come with their own hotel which would work great at the beginning...again pulling business away from other resort venues in the region. Large car carrying ferries/hydrofoils out of SoFla would be an automatic as well.....new cars in and classic 57 chevy's back out....grin.

IMHO do not forget TPA as well as MIA as key gateways due to large populations of Cuban expats for service to a lot of the rest of the island.....especially for business and family reunions.


User currently offlineN328KF From United States of America, joined May 2004, 6482 posts, RR: 3
Reply 20, posted (6 years 3 months 1 week 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 7040 times:



Quoting RP TPA (Reply 6):
How about Air Canada?

Air Canada currently gets a lot of flights from people overseas who transfer to Cuba via Canada. They also get some sales from Americans who go to Canada and illegally enter Cuba that way. In the case of the former, there would be new competition, and the second market would be eliminated.



When they call the roll in the Senate, the Senators do not know whether to answer 'Present' or 'Not guilty.' T.Roosevelt
User currently offlineServisair From United States of America, joined Jul 2006, 37 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (6 years 3 months 1 week 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 6925 times:

The real money will come from FREIGHT not really the passenger for about a year. At the time and this goes back a while UA was planning to put DC10's in 5 times a day because the plane was a work horse for freight but would also be able to get the passenger traffic. I remember at the time the thought was Cuba would open up but it never did.

Half of the United States furniture and other house hold items would be shipped to Cuba right away. And half of Cuba (Antiques) would be shipped to the US so the need for freight would be tremendous.

After things settled down a bit, it would become a huge vacation destination.



30 Yeras in the Biz...
User currently offlineRb211 From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 632 posts, RR: 3
Reply 22, posted (6 years 3 months 1 week 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 6867 times:

1.American out of MIA.
2. Delta out of JFK



Airline photography. Whether they're fully clothed, butt naked, having issues or confused I'm taking pictures!!
User currently offlineN1120A From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 26196 posts, RR: 76
Reply 23, posted (6 years 3 months 1 week 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 6825 times:



Quoting BigGSFO (Reply 8):
I would assume these dormant authorities have long since expired or were rendered useless when the embargo was enacted.

Dormant authorities don't really expire if they are unusable.

Quoting BigGSFO (Reply 8):

No US carrier has rights to offer scheduled service to Cuba.

Well, several have, and use, the rights to fly essentially scheduled charters.

Quoting BP1 (Reply 13):
Interesting about Air Canada. If Air Canada already has that right, then why are they not using that to fly on-wards to other countries from the USA?

AC announced that they would be flying YYZ-LAX-SYD but was denied the authority under the Canada-Australia bilateral.



Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
User currently offlineSilentbob From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 1962 posts, RR: 1
Reply 24, posted (6 years 3 months 1 week 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 6807 times:



Quoting SLCUT2777 (Reply 11):
Besides south Florida and the greater NYC metro area, what other airports will see flights?

One would have to assume that along with the normalization of relations there would be significant revitalization of the island, especially resorts and other tourism. It would also be a place that not many Americans have visited, so I would expect a large surge in visitors shortly after the flights were opened up.


25 Servisair : This is "NOT" true. Only UA has the "rights" and no other "airline". Charter "companies" have the "right" to fly the route. The charter companies onl
26 Post contains images YOWza : An interesting question. I guess it would be whoever gets the right schedule in place ex Florida and NY. That said, as long as Cuba continues to not c
27 Richierich : Everybody is waiting for the old man to die, Bob. I know it sounds very sick - even for somebody with a history like Castro's - but there is always t
28 Viscount724 : Fifth freedom rights are rarely very useful or profitable these days. Passengers want nonstop flights, not an intermediate stop in the US with all th
29 EALSYS1 : I forgot about that! I've been in the AErngates in Miami while they boarded ATR flights to Cuba. This canrndefinitely be taken on MANY different ways
30 Burnsie28 : AA could fly like 10 daily 777's between MIA and Cuba with all the Cuban's in miami. Though, im sure a ferry service would do better.
31 Post contains images MD90fan : Is this even a question? With AA controlling ~70% of Miami, which is home to a gazillion Cubans, it should be a no brainer. In addition to AA/AR servi
32 Post contains links B4REAL : Correct as far as rights, only UA has the rights. However, under special operation parameters, over the last 5 years American, American Eagle, Delta,
33 Servisair : " target=_blank>http://flightaware.com/live/flight/C...A1905 Ok.. There is no "special operation parameters" A US Airline CANNOT fly to CUBA. CO/AA/D
34 B4REAL : Gosh... I call it piss, you call it pee. Whatever. But it would be a special operating parameter.
35 MAH4546 : Los Angeles, Orlando, and Tampa, plus obvious hub cities (Atlanta, Charlotte, Chicago, and Dallas come to mind). From South Florida, HAV service is a
36 B4REAL : Good point. SCU would be a player.
37 Servisair : Quoting EALSYS1 (Reply 29): Servisair, do you have any additional information on UA's plans or are you far removed from that situation? I was directl
38 AA767400 : AA hands down! I can see MIA-HAV and many other destinations in Cuba with multiple flights a day. The A300 alone could support 5 flights a day between
39 Servisair : Sorry man, I'm in one of those moods today... Just about any city in Florida has a big Cuban population these days. I'm in RSW and the Cuban populati
40 Post contains links B4REAL : Loosely related, interesting article: http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1199...7914871109.html?mod=googlenews_wsj
41 ElmoTheHobo : As most people have said, American hands down. As do the US carriers that have charters in place. American (and Executive dba Eagle) carry a ton of pa
42 Boeing7E7 : AA @ MIA DL @ ATL / JFK CO @ IAH/EWR[Edited 2008-01-09 18:41:23]
43 Ocracoke : This is interisting. I've never heard of this before. Of all the US airlines still flying, as far as I have researched, there is only one that has ha
44 MAH4546 : The U.S., which is pro-Open Skies to a ridiculous degree, would never agree to such a limited air treaty. This is the year 2008. I don't think the U.
45 Ocracoke : If Cuba were to open up, but the Cuban government stated that only 2..or 3 US airlines are allowed into Cuba, I don't think the US government would h
46 Post contains images Zippyjet : Us! FL Go There's Nothing Stopping You! Are advertising tag. Flights from Hotlanta, and us BWI. Jet Blue could do some JFK- HAV service when the New Y
47 RayChuang : When Cuba opens up, they WILL need to upgrade HAV (Jose Marti Airport). AA could just about fly almost hourly service using a combination of 767's and
48 Centrair : NW, UA and YX of course.... Ooops not Cuba, Wisconsin.
49 MAH4546 : Of course they would have a choice. They have a choice to say, no. Do you seriously think that Cuba wouldn't compromise and ignore the impact of flig
50 Servisair : You might be right about Delta but I remember being told by the State Department and the FAA that we (UA) were the only airline left that had the rig
51 Ualcsr : I'm a former UA CSR agent from Miami who never flew on the HAV flights but who worked them occasionally. I do vaguely recall talk that UA was the sol
52 Ualcsr : Edited to "Cienfuegos".
53 MAH4546 : They would be all daily, IMO, if not multiple daily. Easily I could see Eagle doing from Miami (not taking into account fleet limitations), five dail
54 Ocracoke : Yes, I seriously do think that Cuba will limit US airline growth. Russia also dreamt of billions of foreign investments after the fall of the communi
55 MAH4546 : Many of those arrangmenets, such as Brazil, where made a long time ago, before the U.S. became pro-Open Skies. And U.S.-China Open Skies is on it's w
56 Post contains images Ualcsr : Absolutely. I had not even taken Eagle into consideration but yes, traffic between MIA-Cuba, which is already sizeable despite restrictions, would ju
57 Etops1 : "NK from FLL...if were not bought out by US first(praying....let it happen already)" why would you want usairways to buy spirit? becareful what you wi
58 SpencerII : I would suppose Cubana would start some USA service as well, once the restrictions are lifted.[Edited 2008-01-10 05:06:43]
59 JFK787NYC : I am sorry but you have no idea what your talking about. Soviet Union went bankrupt because they were totally financing to many countries. After the
60 Styles9002 : MAH4546 IMHO, America is not anti-Cuba; we are perhaps anti-Castro but most certainly not anti-Cuba. You are entitled to your opinion on the matter bu
61 Ocracoke : Whew! Good thing you are here to set me straight. . Perhaps a quick reading of the latest Time magazine article on Putin will better explain to you t
62 Post contains links CV880 : http://ostpxweb.dot.gov/aviation/intav/country.pdf Per the above, on pp38-39, DL has HAV route authority from SFO, SJU, MSY, LAX, IAH and CO from PBI
63 ElmoTheHobo : America's diplomatic stance is anti-Cuba. America's popular opinion, though, is certainly not anti-Cuba.
64 MAH4546 : I agree with you. I used Castro and Cuba interchangeably, but I agree with you.
65 WA707atMSP : UA also has National's dormant rights from Miami and New York City to Havana. National flew to Havana from the end of World War II until Castro took
66 SXDFC : If all of this were to occur, what "western" aircraft would Cubana want for flights to the US? Although I am sure it would be cool to see some Russian
67 EALSYS1 : Ualcsr, As someone in your demographic, American born son of Cuban Exiles, I can tell you that many our age would invest in Cuba as soon as possible.
68 Isitsafenow : US Carrier to most benefit will be the carriers getting into Cuba. ... My guess would be.... 1. Continental(I feel is a slamdunk here) 2.Spirit or air
69 Ualcsr : Good to see another Cubanito here!! I'll send you a private message about my feelings on this (as to our generation), and I completely agree that Cub
70 LTBEWR : Another issue is history of the the USA and Cuba. Cuba was a territory of the USA from about 1899 to the mid-1920's as spoils from the Spain governmen
71 MAH4546 : Cuba is a world famous tourist destination and it's beaches are loaded with modern resorts that Canadians, Europeans, and South American flock to. An
72 Mexicana767 : So besides LAX, Which other west coast cities might get Cuba service?
73 MAH4546 : LAX would probably be the only U.S. city west of Dallas with Cuba service.
74 Isitsafenow : Why you ask? Because I think those are the carriers Uncle Sam will bless with service to Cuba if and when the time comes. I picked CO because they ha
75 MAH4546 : American Eagle operates the largest number of charter flights between the U.S. and Cuba, with daily charter flights from Miami to five cities in Cuba
76 Thenoflyzone : Don't be so sure. On my last visit to Cuba just under a year ago, the locals were saying that Fidel's brother was worse than him! he is ultra conserv
77 MAH4546 : Cuba isn't the one "closing" the borders. The U.S. is. Cuba would welcome American tourists with open arms. They already welcome thousands - illegall
78 CALMSP : I would love to see us enter Cuba...........we used to run flights constantly from JFK/MIA to cities such as: HAV/CFG/SCU/BYM and I believe 1 or 2 mor
79 FLYACYYZ : Air Canada is not going to tack on a stop on it's YYZ-HAV service. The rest of Cuba is served for the benefit of Air Canada vacationers, who want con
80 KensukeAida : I believe the Tu-204, Il-96, and Tu-156M (once hushkitted) are certified for for use in the US per FAA regs. Il-86s and II-62M can't meet stage III.
81 Dispatchguy : When I worked the UA Pilot Crew Desk, we did a lot of charters MIA-HAV on the B763. We would put a mech on the plane for the flight, MIA OPS did the l
82 RP TPA : What I'm suggesting is that Air Canada COULD (theoretically) run a flight thru a US city and have traffic rights on that leg. So, for example, add a
83 FLYACYYZ : Theoretically sure they could do it, but what I'm suggesting is it ain't going to happen.
84 Anetter123 : I can see the following US airports having nonstop service to Cuba once travel is permitted to the island. MIA - AA to all major Cuban airports as wel
85 STT757 : Union City New Jersey, largest concentration of Cuban ex pats outside South Florida.
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