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Unidentified 2007 Boeing Widebody Orders  
User currently offlineFUN2FLY From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 1044 posts, RR: 1
Posted (6 years 8 months 2 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 5579 times:

Below is a list of the unidentified widebody orders for Boeing for 2007. Anyone know who these are for? I know many been speculated upon when initially ordered, but quite a few were added in Nov/Dec. Might the 2 GE powered 772's be for CO? 15 77W's is a huge order.

Appreciate your thoughts and speculation.

Unidentified Customer Unidentified Unidentified 777-200ER 30-Mar-2007 5
Unidentified Customer Unidentified Unidentified 777-200ER GE 03-Dec-2007 2
Unidentified Customer Unidentified Unidentified 777-200LR GE 03-Jan-2007 4
Unidentified Customer Unidentified Unidentified 777-300ER GE 14-Nov-2007 15
Unidentified Customer Unidentified Unidentified 787-8 GE 18-Jan-2007 2
Unidentified Customer Unidentified Unidentified 787-8 30-Mar-2007 8
Unidentified Customer Unidentified Unidentified 787-8 RR 23-Nov-2007 2
Unidentified Customer Unidentified Unidentified 787-8 04-Dec-2007 1
Unidentified Customer Unidentified Unidentified 787-9 GE 14-Dec-2007 3

40 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineLH506 From Ecuador, joined May 2007, 464 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (6 years 8 months 2 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 5567 times:



Quoting FUN2FLY (Thread starter):
Unidentified Customer Unidentified Unidentified 777-200LR GE 03-Jan-2007 4

Royal Brunei??

Quoting FUN2FLY (Thread starter):
Unidentified Customer Unidentified Unidentified 787-9 GE 14-Dec-2007 3

didn't Air Astana just announce that they bought 3 787s?



NOT FLOWN: 707 717 736/9 764 77L 787 300B2 300B4 345 RJ70/146-100 F27 ATR72 CRJ1/4/10 E120/135/40/95 Q1/2/3 M87
User currently offlineADXMatt From United States of America, joined Jul 2006, 951 posts, RR: 2
Reply 2, posted (6 years 8 months 2 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 5554 times:



Quoting FUN2FLY (Thread starter):
Unidentified Customer Unidentified Unidentified 777-200ER GE 03-Dec-2007 2

It has been rumored that CO is looking for 2 more 777 due to a possible delay in getting the 787 online for summer 2009 schedule.


User currently offlineHamlet69 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 2744 posts, RR: 58
Reply 3, posted (6 years 8 months 2 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 5544 times:

I'm afraid I will not be able to comment on those orders for whom I know the customer. However, I can speculate on the ones I don't:

Quoting FUN2FLY (Thread starter):
Unidentified Customer Unidentified Unidentified 777-200ER GE 03-Dec-2007 2

While I do believe this is a follow-up order, I do not believe this to be CO (although at this point, anything could be a possibility). In order of probabilty, I would say: ILFC (for AM), JL, OS, TAAG.

Quoting FUN2FLY (Thread starter):
Unidentified Customer Unidentified Unidentified 787-9 GE 14-Dec-2007 3

This is the reason I do not believe the UFO 772ER is CO, as I feel that this order is CO. There was talk of CO excercising a few options this year, and this would fit. Note that in December CO adjusted their 737NG orders (+2 -700, -2 -800), which means there was some talk with Boeing on upcoming deliveries and adjustments to the current fleet plan.

Quoting FUN2FLY (Thread starter):
Unidentified Customer Unidentified Unidentified 787-8 RR 23-Nov-2007 2
Unidentified Customer Unidentified Unidentified 787-8 04-Dec-2007 1

Unfortunately, these two could be absolutely anybody, and until there is some better news coming out of Boeing, it would be almost impossible to even speculate at this point in time.


Regards,

Hamlet69  profile 



Honor the warriors, not the war.
User currently offlineHamlet69 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 2744 posts, RR: 58
Reply 4, posted (6 years 8 months 2 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 5530 times:



Quoting LH506 (Reply 1):
didn't Air Astana just announce that they bought 3 787s?

Yes, -8's with Trent 1000's.


Regards,

Hamlet69  profile 



Honor the warriors, not the war.
User currently offlineFUN2FLY From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 1044 posts, RR: 1
Reply 5, posted (6 years 8 months 1 week 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 5220 times:



Quoting ADXMatt (Reply 2):
It has been rumored that CO is looking for 2 more 777 due to a possible delay in getting the 787 online for summer 2009 schedule.

What kind of delivery schedule could you get on a 777? They need them for Mar 09 EWR>PVG. Might be even more merit to this if the purported second 787 delay has any truth to it.

Quoting Hamlet69 (Reply 3):
Note that in December CO adjusted their 737NG orders (+2 -700, -2 -800), which means there was some talk with Boeing on upcoming deliveries and adjustments to the current fleet plan.



Interesting, wonder if the cut the 738 orders for 08/09 by 2 due to the economic downturn and increased the -700 order (placeholder for any model type) for future years adding onto the 10 scheduled for 2010.


User currently offlineWestWing From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 2134 posts, RR: 7
Reply 6, posted (6 years 8 months 1 week 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 5127 times:

Note that it has been reported on A.Net by a knowledgeable person (who can identify himself if he chooses) that the five 777-200ERs ordered on 30-Mar are not for the same operator as the eight 787-8s ordered on the same day.

Of all the orders I find the 15 777-300ER order most intriguing because it is such a large order and I haven't yet seen any speculation on whom these might be for. So I am going to ask whether these could be for QR ? They have this history of secrecy, are moving away from the A346 - so is it possible they need some additional interim lift before the 350s arrive?



The best time to plant a tree is 40 years ago. The second best time is today.
User currently offlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 30986 posts, RR: 86
Reply 7, posted (6 years 8 months 1 week 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 5109 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

EK has mumbled about improving their 77W order book. Wiki says their 12 777-300As leave the fleet in 2014, but the A350-1000s won't be in the fleet until 2015-2016. So perhaps EK is adding some later-delivery birds to allow the earliest 77Ws in their fleet to handle the 777-300A retirement, replacing them with new 77W deliveries, and setting the stage for future expansion and replacements to be handled with the A350-1000?

User currently offlineHamlet69 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 2744 posts, RR: 58
Reply 8, posted (6 years 8 months 1 week 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 4922 times:



Quoting WestWing (Reply 6):
Note that it has been reported on A.Net by a knowledgeable person (who can identify himself if he chooses) that the five 777-200ERs ordered on 30-Mar are not for the same operator as the eight 787-8s ordered on the same day.

He could identify himself if he wanted. . .  Wink And no, they are not for the same operator.

Quoting WestWing (Reply 6):
Of all the orders I find the 15 777-300ER order most intriguing because it is such a large order and I haven't yet seen any speculation on whom these might be for.

I don't remember seeing any (accurate) speculation on here. However, right before this order was announced, there was some mention of it coming up on another forum, although at the moment I cannot recall if it was the Yahoo! Orders group or Fleetbuzz.

Quoting WestWing (Reply 6):
So I am going to ask whether these could be for QR ?

Since you asked a direct question, I'll give you a direct answer: No, it is not QR.
(and no, Stitch, it is not EK either).


Regards,

Hamlet69  profile 



Honor the warriors, not the war.
User currently offlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 30986 posts, RR: 86
Reply 9, posted (6 years 8 months 1 week 6 days ago) and read 4864 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

One wonders if it's a serious curve-ball order from BA or QF...

User currently offlineWestWing From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 2134 posts, RR: 7
Reply 10, posted (6 years 8 months 1 week 6 days ago) and read 4815 times:



Quoting Hamlet69 (Reply 8):
Since you asked a direct question, I'll give you a direct answer: No, it is not QR.
(and no, Stitch, it is not EK either).

Thanks for that confirmation.


For others that may be interested, someone on Fleetbuzz had asked whether these 15 77Ws might have been ordered by a lessor. This was after the unidentified order was announced.



The best time to plant a tree is 40 years ago. The second best time is today.
User currently offlineDAYflyer From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 3807 posts, RR: 3
Reply 11, posted (6 years 8 months 1 week 6 days ago) and read 4806 times:



Quoting FUN2FLY (Thread starter):
Unidentified Customer Unidentified Unidentified 777-200ER 30-Mar-2007 5
Unidentified Customer Unidentified Unidentified 777-200ER GE 03-Dec-2007 2
Unidentified Customer Unidentified Unidentified 777-200LR GE 03-Jan-2007 4

DL??



One Nation Under God
User currently offlineLTU932 From Germany, joined Jan 2006, 13864 posts, RR: 50
Reply 12, posted (6 years 8 months 1 week 6 days ago) and read 4792 times:



Quoting DAYflyer (Reply 11):
Quoting FUN2FLY (Thread starter):
Unidentified Customer Unidentified Unidentified 777-200ER 30-Mar-2007 5
Unidentified Customer Unidentified Unidentified 777-200ER GE 03-Dec-2007 2
Unidentified Customer Unidentified Unidentified 777-200LR GE 03-Jan-2007 4

DL??

I was under the impression that DL would only order the 77L for the moment.


User currently offlineDLPhoenix From United States of America, joined Aug 2007, 419 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (6 years 8 months 1 week 6 days ago) and read 4772 times:



Quoting DAYflyer (Reply 11):
DL??

Vey unlikely.
Boeing revealed some DL orders in December, I can't see why they would reveal some and leave other unidentified.


User currently offlineIkramerica From United States of America, joined May 2005, 21529 posts, RR: 59
Reply 14, posted (6 years 8 months 1 week 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 4717 times:



Quoting FUN2FLY (Reply 5):
Interesting, wonder if the cut the 738 orders for 08/09 by 2 due to the economic downturn and increased the -700 order (placeholder for any model type) for future years adding onto the 10 scheduled for 2010.

I believe this is the case. CO is cutting the deliveries of 738s just a tad due to the slower market projections, and will likely convert those to 739ER at a later date. It is my opinion that CO will not order any more 737NGs going forward other than the 739ER, and will even convert more 738 orders to 739ERs as time goes on.



Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
User currently offlineLH506 From Ecuador, joined May 2007, 464 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (6 years 8 months 1 week 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 4676 times:



Quoting FUN2FLY (Thread starter):
Unidentified Customer Unidentified Unidentified 777-300ER GE 14-Nov-2007 15

This one is really interesting.

SA: I cannot think of any carrier in SA who would need 15 77Ws. RG might be out for new aircraft but I think the 77W is way too big.
NA: Since DL and CO announced some orders during 2007, hard to believe they ordered these.
Europe: AF-KL comes to mind, maybe to free up 772s for AZ, but they only received the go ahead for the purchase at year end, so November order is too early.
Middle East: All carriers announced orders at Dubai, so again hard to believe that this one would have carried to the UFO section.
Africa: No carrier comes to mind.
Asia/Australia......
CX just ordered,
CI said they are looking for VLAs now, after chosing the 350,
Chinese Carriers...maybe the announcement follows a state visit (anything planned by GWB?), maybe some additional discounts negotiated for not having the 787s for the Olympics,
AI said they would order in 2008,
JL/NH that is a real possibility
QF, Virgin Blue, KE no
TG part of their fleet renewal???
MH will order in 2008

so my guess
1. A leasing company
2. JL or NH
3. Chinese Carrier
with a strong tendency to say that this order is from a leasing company, maybe even for EK, CO or



NOT FLOWN: 707 717 736/9 764 77L 787 300B2 300B4 345 RJ70/146-100 F27 ATR72 CRJ1/4/10 E120/135/40/95 Q1/2/3 M87
User currently offlineFUN2FLY From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 1044 posts, RR: 1
Reply 16, posted (6 years 8 months 1 week 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 4444 times:



Quoting LH506 (Reply 15):
Quoting FUN2FLY (Thread starter):
Unidentified Customer Unidentified Unidentified 777-300ER GE 14-Nov-2007 15

This one is really interesting.

I think we can rule out 9w with the recent rumors of their add on order for 7 or so. Also rule out AC they just added one with GECAS for 2009. Don't think SQ could handle 15 more with their w/b backlog.

Could this be an "open skies" order? AF loves this plane, so maybe they want more to free up some 330's to fly to the US and a few more for KLM (although they order separately).

My guess would be someone China. Only Hamlet knows however...


User currently offlineWestWing From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 2134 posts, RR: 7
Reply 17, posted (6 years 8 months 1 week 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 4330 times:

A China order for 15 77Ws (split across multiple airlines) is certainly plausible, but I do not remember orders from China being kept secret in the past. So China would appear to not fit the earlier pattern (?)


The best time to plant a tree is 40 years ago. The second best time is today.
User currently offlineHamlet69 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 2744 posts, RR: 58
Reply 18, posted (6 years 8 months 1 week 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 4176 times:



Quoting WestWing (Reply 17):
A China order for 15 77Ws (split across multiple airlines)

It's one airline.

Quoting WestWing (Reply 17):
I do not remember orders from China being kept secret in the past.

Not trying to imply anything, but this is not true either. Both China Southern's as well as Xiamen's 737 orders in 2007 were initially listed as Unidentified until they were announced later in the year.


Regards,

Hamlet69  profile 



Honor the warriors, not the war.
User currently offlineCALMSP From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 3969 posts, RR: 7
Reply 19, posted (6 years 8 months 1 week 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 4151 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

 stirthepot  wonder if its CO??  shhh 


okay, I'm waiting for the rich to spread the wealth around to me. Please mail your checks to my house.
User currently offlineFUN2FLY From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 1044 posts, RR: 1
Reply 20, posted (6 years 8 months 1 week 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 4068 times:



Quoting CALMSP (Reply 19):
wonder if its CO??

Check my logic on this one. Hamlet knows who the 15 are for. Hamlet guessed CO had either the 772 -2 order or the 789 -3 order. Assuming he knows the orders on an airline by airline basis, the 77w's are not for CO or he would not have to speculate.

I'm with you, I think CO could easily use 15 77w's, but that's more than likely a pipe dream. They are way to conservative for that. Unless it's their approach to stay out of the merger fray once consolidation occurs, i.e, grow fast on their own and have the capacity to expand when the consolidated companies pull back capacity, it's not CO.

For US carriers we'll know in Feb when 10-q/10-k's are released. CO has a press conference on TH, so that may shed some light on the situation. They usually release an "investor update" that includes fleet changes when they occur. With the aforementioned changes to the 73G schedules, then something will more than likely be discussed.

Also pretty amazing someone orderd 5 772's in March and still nothing announced.


User currently offlineWestWing From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 2134 posts, RR: 7
Reply 21, posted (6 years 8 months 1 week 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 3866 times:



Quoting Hamlet69 (Reply 18):
It's one airline

Thanks for that information and for correcting my bad recollection on the previous secrecy of China orders.

On another topic, I think the 23-Nov-2007 order for two 787s w/ RR power is for Nakash Group (Arkia Israel Airlines).



The best time to plant a tree is 40 years ago. The second best time is today.
User currently offlineSkyGazer From Australia, joined Feb 2007, 79 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (6 years 8 months 1 week 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 3816 times:

Quoting FUN2FLY (Thread starter):
Unidentified Customer Unidentified Unidentified 777-300ER GE 14-Nov-2007 15

My guess is SQ.

They have quite a few options from what I remember. This is an airline that in recent times has been very capacity constrained due to demand. In addition, they have not ordered the A350-1000. SQ are liking the 77W at the moment are they not?

[Edited 2008-01-13 20:04:37]

[Edited 2008-01-13 20:06:57]


Types flown: B738, B772ER, B773, B77W, B744, A310, A320, A321, A332, A333, A343, A388
User currently offlineMasseyBrown From United States of America, joined Dec 2002, 5438 posts, RR: 7
Reply 23, posted (6 years 8 months 1 week 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 3790 times:



Quoting FUN2FLY (Reply 20):
I'm with you, I think CO could easily use 15 77w's, but that's more than likely a pipe dream.

Especially if 10 of them are to replace 762's.



I love long German words like 'Freundschaftsbezeigungen'.
User currently offlineDeltaL1011man From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 9424 posts, RR: 14
Reply 24, posted (6 years 8 months 1 week 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 3780 times:



Quoting FUN2FLY (Thread starter):
Unidentified Customer Unidentified Unidentified 777-200ER 30-Mar-2007 5

i say Delta and they are waiting to see if they buy NW or UA to chose the engines

Quoting FUN2FLY (Thread starter):
Unidentified Customer Unidentified Unidentified 777-200LR GE 03-Jan-2007 4
Unidentified Customer Unidentified Unidentified 777-300ER GE 14-Nov-2007 15

again i say both for Delta 15 77Ws would fit in nice in DLs fleet

Quoting DAYflyer (Reply 11):
DL??

good chance

Quoting LTU932 (Reply 12):
I was under the impression that DL would only order the 77L for the moment.

have only heard this on A.net and have yet to be proven wrong



yep.
25 Ikramerica : Could also be JL or NH, especially NH who have received 11 of 17 so far, and this new order would likely start deliveries after they've received all
26 Post contains images Hamlet69 : Possible. They did announce their intention to order 2 more, and they are a RR customer. However, when they announced their intent, it was for 2 more
27 474218 : I am sure someone at Boeing knows who they are for, but there not telling.
28 Ikramerica : NZ or BA? Neither would be surprising, but BA already ordered a couple 772ERs that were identified. So I'm gonna say NZ...
29 HNL-Jack : I would guess it is a leasing company, although I wouldn't rule out a carrier such as UA, even tho they claim they won't get new aircraft in the immed
30 WestWing : Thanks, so assuming the web version of the orders database is accurate it is possible that the Arkia option exercise may not yet have been finalized
31 Post contains images Hamlet69 : My personal speculation: New. Existing. New. (most likely will be GE-powered) New. Existing. Regards, Hamlet69
32 WestWing : News report today that Air Europa ordered eight 787s in 2007 (= the 30 March order) and have selected RR power.
33 BRxxx : My guess, unlikely, might be an airline from China or Taiwan since direct flights are almost possible now and they need high capacity aircrafts. Off t
34 WestWing : VLA = Very Large Aircraft. The 747 and A380 would fall into this class.
35 Zkojh : i'm going say ANZ with the 777-300er's , doing a follow up order.
36 Cricket : 9W has said they would like to bolster their 77W fleet which current stands at seven with six deliveries to go.. so...
37 WestWing : EVA Air took delivery of one of their 77Ws a few days before the 15 77Ws were ordered. Someone with signing authority from BR may have been in Seattle
38 Kaitak744 : New customer. CO, KL, AF, AZ, CZ, PK, AM? Either Thai or Royal Brunei. Thai was looking for buyers a while back for their A340-500s, and I believe th
39 Post contains images Hamlet69 : I'll answer a few points. However, I can understand if some feel I'm being arrogant or condecending by knowing but not naming the customers. It is not
40 Post contains links and images PM : Air Astana have chosen RR. http://www.rolls-royce.com/media/showPR.jsp?PR_ID=40593 Well, that's one you got wrong! New, yes, but with RR...
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