TranStar From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 524 posts, RR: 0 Posted (5 years 4 months 2 weeks 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 4444 times:
Just a few questions about Pan Am circa the 1980s:
1. Before Pan Am introduced the billboard titles, it utilized a modified logo on its 747s that had a broader cheat-line and larger titles that the original delivery colors. When was this modified livery introduced. Also, they stopped painting the nose-cones of the 747s, I assume that was a cost-cutting measure?
2. What were their cabin colors in the 747s like in the 1980s. I flew them in 1991 (727 from IAH-JFK-IAH), and I believe it was corporate blue. But was that the case in the 1980s for the 747s? I have seen timetable inserts that show a patterned seat cover, but they are in black and white so I cannot tell color differences.
Dc863 From Denmark, joined Jun 1999, 1554 posts, RR: 2 Reply 3, posted (5 years 4 months 2 weeks 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 4260 times:
Dtw interesting link. In the '89 clip you'll see Clipper Beacon Light at the gate. Boy was that plane a lemon!! I had two mech delays with that ex AA 747.
Both delays lasted hours and the first which occurred in June'84 i saw #3 blow a huge shaft of flame when reversing at FCO. I sat in Clipper Class and was looking right at the engine when it went.
That plane had to be PA's hangar queen.
L1011Lover From Germany, joined Oct 2003, 971 posts, RR: 15 Reply 4, posted (5 years 4 months 2 weeks 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 4143 times:
Very interesting link indeed Dtwclipper.
I remember a PA timetable or magazine insert in which they announced the retrofitting of their entire 747 fleet with new and wider seats in First and Clipper Class and the new "superbins" the larger bins on each side of the cabin (now standard on all 747 versions).
However in both videos there are still the old standard 747 bins both in the center as well as on the side.
I thought all of PA's 747's were retrofitted by 1987/88.
TranStar From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 524 posts, RR: 0 Reply 5, posted (5 years 4 months 2 weeks 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 4078 times:
How many of the 747s ultimately got the billboard? All of them?
My confusion from my memory that the Lockerbie 747 still had the cheatline in 1989. I guess it took quite a while to get the fleet painted to the billboard look.
Also, what was the SCD designation mean. The Lockerbie was a 747-100SCD. what did that mean?
American 767 From United States of America, joined May 1999, 3322 posts, RR: 14 Reply 6, posted (5 years 4 months 2 weeks 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 4022 times:
Quoting TranStar (Reply 5): I guess it took quite a while to get the fleet painted to the billboard look.
It probably did. The billboard livery was unveiled in 1985 with the delivery of the first Airbus A300 and A310 which were new at that time. After the sale of the Pacific Rim routes to United, Pan Am didn't have quite a large fleet, the DC-10's, L-1011's and 747SP's all left the fleet at that time. Only one 747SP was repainted in the new livery. Like you say, in late 1988, the 747 that was involved in the Lockerbie disaster still had the cheatline with the thin Pan Am titles.
I also remember seeing in 1988 a 727 in the old cheatline livery.
Ben Soriano
Brussels Belgium
"Aimer jusqu'a l'impossible, c'est possible". Tina Arena.
WA707atMSP From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 2043 posts, RR: 13 Reply 7, posted (5 years 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 3931 times:
Quoting TranStar (Thread starter): 1. Before Pan Am introduced the billboard titles, it utilized a modified logo on its 747s that had a broader cheat-line and larger titles that the original delivery colors. When was this modified livery introduced.
The revised titles were introduced in the mid 1970s. The titles with this scheme were also less angular than in the delivery scheme:
NA From Germany, joined Dec 1999, 9614 posts, RR: 10 Reply 8, posted (5 years 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 3874 times:
Quoting TranStar (Reply 5): How many of the 747s ultimately got the billboard? All of them?
My confusion from my memory that the Lockerbie 747 still had the cheatline in 1989. I guess it took quite a while to get the fleet painted to the billboard look.
Also, what was the SCD designation mean. The Lockerbie was a 747-100SCD. what did that mean?
To answer your questions:
Almost all PA 747s carried the Billboard livery in the end. Only one or two were still in the old livery when the airline shut down. In 1988, when the Lockerbie desaster occurred, about 10 Jumbo Jets were still in old colours. If you send me your email-address I can post you a jpg or pdf depicting the whole, 38-strong PA 747 fleet at the time of the Lockerbie desaster.
The Lockerbie Jumbo still carried the wide cheatline when it was downed.
SCD means Side Cargo door. About a dozen were converted in 1986-89, as much as I know paid for by the Government because Pan Am promised to provide these aircraft in case of national emergency. Strange is that some aircraft which were converted still carried the old livery afterwards. The airline was so financially desparate already that only the area around the freight door was painted!
Viscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 21495 posts, RR: 24 Reply 12, posted (5 years 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 3721 times:
Quoting TranStar (Reply 5): How many of the 747s ultimately got the billboard? All of them?
Quoting Dc863 (Reply 10): I flew on one without the billboard scheme from LGW-MIA in Aug '91. By then the morale of the entire staff was at a new low.
Quoting NA (Reply 8): Almost all PA 747s carried the Billboard livery in the end. Only one or two were still in the old livery when the airline shut down.
This appears to be one of the PA 747s without the billboard livery at the time of their shutdown.
Panamair From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 4587 posts, RR: 26 Reply 13, posted (5 years 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 3556 times:
Quoting TranStar (Reply 5): How many of the 747s ultimately got the billboard? All of them?
I am fairly confident of this list of 747s that never got the billboard livery:
747-100:
N653PA Clipper Pride Of The Ocean (wide blue cheatline)
N725PA Clipper Mandarin (wide blue cheatline)
N731PA Clipper Ocean Express - left fleet late '80s (wide blue cheatline)
N734PA Clipper Champion Of The Seats (wide blue cheatline)
N748PA Clipper Crest of The Wave - in another interim livery of wide blue cheatline BELOW windows
N755PA Clipper Sovereign of The Seas - left fleet late '80s (wide blue cheatline)
747-200:
N724PA Clipper Fairwind - same interim livery as N748PA
N729PA Clipper Wild Wave (wide blue cheatline)
N730PA Clipper Gem Of The Ocean (wide blue cheatline)
747SP:
All except one were in the old livery when they were sold to UA.
Viscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 21495 posts, RR: 24 Reply 16, posted (5 years 4 months 2 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 3411 times:
Quoting FlyboyOz (Reply 15): I heard from my friend that Pan Am first B742 or 741 had 2 x 4 x 3 seats in the Y class section. Is that true?
Yes, all early 747s including Pan Am's had 9-abreast Y class seating (3-4-2 from left to right). By the end of the 1970s almost all of them had been converted to today's standard 10-abreast 3-4-3 layout. The original 9-abreast seating was very spacious and comfortable. It was comparable to the original 2-4-2 layout on DC-10s and L1011s during their early years of service, which later became 2-5-2.
Eastern023 From United States of America, joined Jul 2006, 803 posts, RR: 0 Reply 17, posted (5 years 4 months 2 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 3292 times:
I flew SCL-EZE-MIA on PA 747 on Y as a kid back on 1988. All seats were blue, with Pan Am logo on them. Actually we got bumped from Eastern as their DC-10 did not come in that day from MIA and EZE.
I was treated like a king as a kid. Flight almost empty on SCL-EZE leg, then it got more crowded on the EZE-MIA sector.
Argonaut From UK - Scotland, joined Dec 2004, 417 posts, RR: 1 Reply 18, posted (5 years 4 months 2 weeks ago) and read 3253 times:
Quoting NA (Reply 8): SCD means Side Cargo door. About a dozen were converted in 1986-89, as much as I know paid for by the Government because Pan Am promised to provide these aircraft in case of national emergency.
I think the programme was referred to as the Strategic Reserve Air Fleet (or something like that), and that it also included some TWA 747s. IIRC, the a/c involved also had strengthened floors to enable them to carry cargo on the main deck, plus localised airframe strengthening (and, no doubt, stronger u/c) to cater for the higher weights. The pay-off for Pan Am and TWA was presumably that in effect the work extended the life of some of the earliest 747s at no cost to the airlines other than down-time.
The Lockerbie a/c happened to be one of the toughened airframes, which is interesting in its own way.
I don't know if the Strategic Reserve Air Fleet concept (converting a/c at gov't/military expense in return for committing them to military transport use in time of war/emergency) still exists.
Viscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 21495 posts, RR: 24 Reply 19, posted (5 years 4 months 1 week 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 3189 times:
Quoting Argonaut (Reply 18): I don't know if the Strategic Reserve Air Fleet concept (converting a/c at gov't/military expense in return for committing them to military transport use in time of war/emergency) still exists.
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