ContinentalEWR From United States of America, joined May 2000, 3762 posts, RR: 14 Posted (12 years 10 months 3 weeks 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 2535 times:
I overheard an interesting conversation recently about the quality of airline service in the US, with particular
focus on amenities, like in-flight personal TV's on long
haul aircraft, cabin design and so forth.....it seems as
though Continental and American (according to the 2
people I heard talking) are far ahead of the domestic
competition in offering a product that is across the
board in its reach. Continental has PTV's on all 767's
and 777's and flip down ones on all 73NG and a few
of the 737-300's while American has its "More Room
in Coach" initiative, which unlike United's Economy
Plus, benefits all economy customers, not just those
who pay horrendously high fares for lousy, less than
dependable service that the US industry has become.
I think Continental and American and to a much much
lesser extent, United, are far ahead of the rest of the
pack in quality of service. The people who were talking
about this mentioned that Northwest, Delta, HP, and
US are cattle car transporters and nothing more. I
think there is some validity to this argument. Neither
of these airlines offer anything beyond marginal
If the second and fifth biggest US airlines can do a
decent enough of a job, why can't the rest? Are
Northwest, Delta, US Airways, and America West
truly awful airlines?
N863DA From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 48 posts, RR: 6 Reply 3, posted (12 years 10 months 3 weeks 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 2148 times:
I think you are correct - but to exclude your blessed airline from the list is somewhat misguided.
Personally, I believe that it is just the result of having more than 50% of the country moved by air every year - it has become nothing more than a reliable Bus service.
Anyone who has travelled on other airlines from outside of the US, for example Swissair and British Airways, will know that THEY know how to run an airline. (Albeit Heathrow needs work, but it's the same problem as in the US because it's just so darned busy.)
There is no doubt that of the majors, DL is seriously lagging behind. But it comes down to what you SHOULD expect. I just expect a transportation from A to B in (relative) comfort. I will conceed that you get that on AA and CO perhaps - and don't get it on Delta any longer on any other than the Shuttle - but it's still all just a means to an end. I think that PERHAPS - just PERHAPS - people expect a little too much? If you're used to travel in Europe or on European / Asian carriers, then it's not surprising that you expect it - but for us, we are not used to it, and thus shouldn't expect it.
In short, yes you are right, but both American and Continental are just as guilty as every other airline in the country.
Uncle Leo From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 4, posted (12 years 10 months 3 weeks 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 2138 times:
Oh come on....didn't you hear about our new simulated seat pitch? "I think it'll be very noticeable. We're not adding additional seat pitch, but customers will feel like they have additional legroom." (From the Atlanta Journal/Constitution) And we have 12 oz. beverage cups- a far cry from the industry average of 8 oz. Plus we give passengers nice free electronic headsets fo watch Delta Horizons and charge $5 for air tubes to watch the movie we picked from the newspaper!
EIPremier From United States of America, joined Sep 2000, 1540 posts, RR: 1 Reply 5, posted (12 years 10 months 3 weeks 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 2100 times:
COEWR---I don't wish to offend you, but you seem to often present a rather black and white view on things.
Personally, I really don't think there is that much difference between the carriers. None of the majors really stand above the rest. If I had to pick two carriers that do consistently differentiate themselves from the competition, I would pick AA and CO, as you did. But all carriers seem to have their strengths and weaknesses. They all have the same problems...just some not as much as others.
I suppose you are correct in that CO is a little better than other airlines in offering in-flight entertainment (all planes except some some 733s 735s, and MD-80s). However, I think UA has the edge in this catagory, because they offer Channel 9/audio on almost all planes, and also do not charge for headphones.
I would say AS, AA, and CO are the leaders in customer service. I think there is a fairly noticable difference between these carriers and the others in this regard. AS is also the leader in speeding passengers through the airport (e-ticket machines, web and wireless check-in, roving agents and the like). CO has done this to a slightly lesser extent, and the other carriers are now just scrambling to catch up.
I do think Northwest and Delta have made some notable efforts to improve service. I'd say HP is really the only carrier that is lagging significantly behind, although even they are trying to make significant improvements to catering and operational performance.
Flashmeister From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 2892 posts, RR: 7 Reply 9, posted (12 years 10 months 3 weeks 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 2059 times:
I have to disagree that DL gives poor service...
I have gotten better service on DL than I got on any of my CO, UA, US, or AA flights. In one case, I was flying DEN-CVG-PHL, and we were 15 minutes late in DEN due to some problems with double-assigned seats and the like. The plane was PACKED.
The captain, who was NOT happy that he was late, apologized probably 5 times as we were waiting to get under way, and then during the flight, personally came back to ensure that peoples' connections were intact.
Never, ever had I seen such a great example of customer service and satisfaction. That incident is the reason that when I can, I always go DL.
Now, if you want to talk awful service, AA is at the top of my list, particularly at DFW. Rude gate agents, flight attendants who could only smile if they used lipstick to draw the upward-curving lips, and interiors in AWFUL condition... so, the rule is that when confronted with AA, I have to wonder if I should just drive.
Now, DL does have work to do with their IFE... and with the coach seats on the 777, which are admittedly awful... but overall, DL is firmly superior to US/UA/AA/CO.
Delta15 From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 617 posts, RR: 5 Reply 10, posted (12 years 10 months 3 weeks 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 2044 times:
To tell the truth I think that continental and delta seem to be pretty darn similar as a whole. The only difference in my oppinion is that delta flys more compfortable air craft for us routes, and ARE better in terms of lost baggage and customer service. aircraft, seat pitches, meals, routes, hubs, and alot of other things are almost identical.
Cba From United States of America, joined Jul 2000, 4530 posts, RR: 3 Reply 12, posted (12 years 10 months 3 weeks 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 2015 times:
Remember ContinentalEWR, we can't say anything bad about Delta on this forum or DeltaSFO (and many other Delta fans) shoot back claiming that Delta can do no wrong.
I have flown Delta many times, and I can rate all of my experiences as average. I have flown CO many times, and they are great airline to fly. I recently flew UAL for the first time, and they were pretty good. I've flown AA alot, and they were also good. Never flown NW.
AerLingus From China, joined Mar 2000, 2371 posts, RR: 0 Reply 13, posted (12 years 10 months 3 weeks 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 1984 times:
Actually, NWA is quite good. They are up there for on-time performance except for flukes such as the big thing at DTW last year. They were one of the first airlines to institute e-ticketing and they are the first airline that allows you to print out your boarding pass via your home pc. While they don't do everything to give you 'more room in coach' or a ptv for long-hauls, they have certainly set the pace for the technological advancements when it comes to efficiency.
DeltaSFO From United States of America, joined Nov 2000, 2488 posts, RR: 23 Reply 14, posted (12 years 10 months 3 weeks 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 1987 times:
Remember ContinentalEWR, we can't say anything bad about Delta on this forum or DeltaSFO (and many other Delta fans) shoot back claiming that Delta can do no wrong.
Cba.... you've obviously not paid very much attention to some of my past posts. I have never claimed that "Delta can do no wrong."
I am one of the first to criticize the way management is handling labor, the way management has handled cost cutting, and management's attitude toward employees.
But to categorize us among HP and US is absolutely ridiculous. We are consistently among the industry leaders in terms of customer satisfaction, on-time performance, and baggage handling. And we managed to make more money last year than any airline in history. Certain individuals in this forum seem like they should add "Delta bashing" to the hobby section of their profiles. We're not perfect, we're not the airline we used to be, but we're not a bad airline by any stretch.
It's a new day. Every moment matters. Now, more than ever.
A32 From United States of America, joined Aug 1999, 163 posts, RR: 1 Reply 15, posted (12 years 10 months 3 weeks 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 1972 times:
I haven't read all the messages here however I must defend NWA.
OK so there are no PTV's in the domestic fleet but how often do you hear about a turbulence encounter on a NWA aircraft. Ever hear of the turbulence plot. Well NWA pioneered it and uses it everyday to get around. But hey ... that is not important. How about Polar routing to the orient... oops NWA leads there too... but then again you would rather have a gameboy in your backseat.
A good car is not one that has all the luxuries but rather one that gets you there safely from point A to B and gives a fairly smooth ride. But then I suppose that you choose your car based on how many cup holders and speakers it has vs what is under the hood.
B747-437B From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 18, posted (12 years 10 months 3 weeks 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 1962 times:
My views on the various airlines are well documented, but I will recap them here since we seem to be having a decent debate. Lets consider them in alphabetical order by IATA code :
AA : American Airlines has shown itself to be a leader of the pack when it comes to application of innovations. Granted they may not come up with the original ideas themselves, but their application of these concepts is superior to anyone else. Examples here would be the More Room Throughout Coach initiative, the Flagship Suite in First Class, etc... Don Carty has shown himself to be a worthy succesor to Bob CrandAAll and is beginning to make agressive moves with the compay. AAdvantage remains the most widespread reward program and a huge asset to AMR Corp. One of two dominant carriers in OneWorld, which assures extensive global reach. No labor problems worth speaking of and a stellar reputation for reliability. Route structure is very thin in Asia and needs improvement on the West Coast. Overall : 8.5/10
CO : Continental continues to do it all with mirrors. Although they have failed to make any major improvements in any aspect of their operations in the last year, they continue to win Airline of the Year awards. That speaks volumes for their reliability and consistency. Gordon Bethune is the most respected CEO in the industry, and his shrewd maneuvering over the DC Air and the TWA/AA merger have served important roles to ensure that the competition doesn't win any market share too easily. Labor loves Gordon, although there may be a nasty showdown between mainline and Express in the mid-future. OnePass remains an industry leader, but some rumblings of discontent are being heard - definitely not a lock for the Freddie Awards this year. No international alliances worth speaking of, but strong domestic alliance with NW. Route structure is non-existant on West Coast and Asia-Pacific is provided through Continental Micronesia. Overall : 7.5/10
DL : Delta continues to bring in huge profits, but may be alienating their customers in the process. The unpopular Simply Good Business initiative led to the creation of the even more unpopular Revenue Protection Unit. Leo Mullin is an excellent corporate officer, but may not be ideally suited to be an airline CEO and this may hurt Delta's long term strategic planning. Exceptional financial planning and fuel hedges ensured that Delta was the major carrier least affected by skyrocketing oil prices. However, the 2000 Q4 figures leave much room for concern from both a fiscal and operational standpoint. A total absence of unions helps keep labor largely under control, although the pilots are getting restless. SkyMiles has deteriorated significantly as a loyalty program with the introduction of unpopular changes. SkyTeam alliance is still in the teething stage, but already has major question marks. Very weak in Asia and could use more routes in northwest/upper midwest areas. Overall : 7/10
HP : America West has come a long way and is the only carrier born after deregulation to be considered a major today. William Franke remains a highly anonymous and unpopular CEO. Morale among employees has rarely been lower and operational standards are being severely compromised as a result. Labor is not a major issue. Alliances are poor, and the replacement of Continental with TWA as a strategic partner is a step backward rather than forward. FlightFund is an undeveloped shell of a loyalty program, although it is frequently innovative in its marketing strategies. No transoceanic routes and extremely poor east coast presence which can be corrected by better utilization of CMH hub. Overall : 3.5/10
NW : Northwest is the most underappreciated brand in the marketplace. Despite delivering stellar fiscal and operational results, the airline remains plagued by public relations disasters that skew perception. Operational standards are impeccable and the Q1 2001 balance sheet will be the healthiest in memory. John Dasburg is the best strategic planner in the industry and many of his ideas from his KPMG days are only now becoming industry norms. Northwest continues to lead the majors in technological enhancements with pioneering technology such as web check-in, E-Service centers and interline E-ticketing. Labor issues appear to have finally been put in the past, with only the mechanics left to sort out. Alliances with KLM transatlantically and Continental domestically are seamless and a model of efficiency. Lack of a true global alliance is the only missing piece from the route structure, but an extensive network of partners takes care of this too. WorldPerks has been enhanced recently and remains a powerful loyalty tool, albeit not to the same extent as AAdvantage and MileagePlus. Overall : 7.5/10
TW : TWA remains an economic anomaly in the marketplace, displaying an inability to link operational performance to fiscal results. Long term debt has ruined TWA and the Karabu agreement doomed them to financial ruin. Operationally, TWA displays optimal efficiency and remains the standard that all carriers can merely aspire to. William Compton has displayed great skill in handling the sinking ship, but has merely been able to postpone the inevitable. The lack of any pressing labor issues can be attributed directly to the popularity of Compton. Route structure is midwest-centric, but that remains a liability of Karabu. No presence at all in Asia and very limited European service. Middle East and Carribean remain strong markets. Domestic alliance with America West is a welcome step in the right direction, but international alliances remain relegated to minor carriers. Aviators is a strong product as far as loyalty programs go, but remains a by-and-large undiscovered brand. Overall : 5/10
UA : United Airlines cannot have a worse year than they did last year. Labor disputes, operational problems and daring strategic moves all contributed towards the annus horribilus that was 2000. However, a very strong response to these problems has ensured that United will recover its dominant place in the industry. James Goodwin appears to be finally understanding his role as CEO and the move to acquire US Airways was an outstanding piece of maneuvering. The contract awarded to the pilots though will have far reaching implications on the entire industry, and will hurt the bottom line. As a charter member of the STAR alliance, United maintains the most comprehensive worldwide network of routes. Their position in the Asia-Pacific market is incredibly strong. Domestically however, the South is badly neglected. Mileage Plus meanwhile remains the most complete loyalty program after AAdvantage. Overall : 6.5/10
US : US Airways averted a major catastrophe when they were able to come to terms with the flight attendant unions at the 11th hour. However, CEO Stephen Wolf remains organized labor's most despised person since Frank Lorenzo. Operational and fiscal figures are nothing spectacular, although the impeding acquisition by UA helped inject some interest into the stock. Domestic route structure remains completely reliant on the Atlantic seaboard and routes to Asia are non-existant. No alliances worth speaking of. Dividend miles is a poor program that is in serious need of an overhaul and rebranding. Overall : 5.5/10
FlyBoeing From United States of America, joined May 2000, 866 posts, RR: 2 Reply 20, posted (12 years 10 months 3 weeks 5 days ago) and read 1927 times:
Northwest/KLM is the most OVERappreciated airline of the year for me. My family has gotten to the point where we can check in late for our NW flights and still make the inevitably delayed plane. We've had a total of 50 hours of delay from them in the last three segments we flew. You'd think that they'd try to make the international passengers happy but they didn't. Never Northwest again for me. Good old Continental.
Tan flyr From United States of America, joined Aug 2000, 1882 posts, RR: 0 Reply 21, posted (12 years 10 months 3 weeks 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 1915 times:
OK you guys....As a customer, my experience has been that ALL OF YOU have had bad days/months/flights/whatever. It is a bit unfair to compare those that have PTV's to prompt bag service for example or "more room in coach" to US airs A 330 or whatever.
AS a paying customer(this year looks to be about a 75,000 mile year for me) what I expect is to be treated with respect(I pay your wages), An on time departure if at possible, to be told the truth abpout delays,not to be treated like just another body when I fly coach, prompt bag service at arrival, etc. Yes, AA's more room in coach" makes it easier to get a decent seat in coach,yes TWA has had great on time performance, yes, on Delta you still MIGHT see some of the old traditions, yes, CO you guys have performed a miracle in turning that company around.
SO, all that said, I make this point..Due to repeated poor performance/attitude,etc, I avoid HP at all costs, and last summer soured may of us on UA. IN a few weeks I will give "Uncle Leo" and his crew several opportunities to be evaluated. CO & NW, maybe later this year, ok? You guys missed one carrier that still has the right stuff most days...Alaska/Horizon..pretty good!
Thanks for letting me add my 2 cents from the customers point of view.
NWARed From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 22, posted (12 years 10 months 3 weeks 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 1898 times:
Well, of course when you have an airline who has been able to buy a whole lot without having to pay (creative chpt.11) twice, then you will have a nice service. Service is nice on most domestic carriers, some of course offer a little more right now.
Notdownnlocked From United States of America, joined Sep 2000, 919 posts, RR: 1 Reply 24, posted (12 years 10 months 3 weeks 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 1873 times:
If you guys had read any of COEWR's posts you know that he is blinded by his love for CO. He has only posted this to leave the rest of you here to fight. Why not just ignore him and his posts. As you can see he has not posted to this thread since he opened it.
25 TWA: Enough ContinentalEWR. Seems like you really have something against these airlines. Well heres my opinion: Delta: Being from Atlanta, Delta is my home
26 CactusA319: B747-437B: I liked your post and you are pretty much on target. One thing though, HP did not replace CO with TW as a codeshare partner. They still cod
27 Imkeww: UAL, by the end of the year, will have the largest PTV enabled fleet with: 29 767-300ERs, 53 777-200/ERs, 44 747-400s all having PTVs in all classes!
28 Nwa#1: UAL, by the end of the year, will have the largest PTV enabled fleet with: 29 767-300ERs, 53 777-200/ERs, 44 747-400s all having PTVs in all classes!
29 B747-437B: CactusA319 - I didn't say that HP/CO had terminated their codeshare agreement - only that HP was gravitating towards TW as a strategic partner to repl
30 D L X: "US : US Airways averted a major catastrophe when they were able to come to terms with the flight attendant unions at the 11th hour. However, CEO Step
31 B747-437B: DLX wrote : >What does any of this have to do with the quality of >service you get on US? Nothing at all. I apologize in the event that my analysis wa