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Where Does QF Fly Their B 747-300s?  
User currently offlineUnited Airline From Hong Kong, joined Jan 2001, 9216 posts, RR: 15
Posted (6 years 11 months 3 weeks 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 5973 times:

Where does QF fly their B 747-300s? I know they no longer fly to BOM and NRT. Maybe PER, AKL etc? Anything long haul let's say JNB?

They still have 3 or 4 right?

45 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineJimma From Australia, joined Dec 2007, 23 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (6 years 11 months 3 weeks 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 5963 times:

QF fly them SYD-PER 1 or 2 times day and also MEL-PER aswell, not sure how many times aday.

i thought that the 743's did some asia flights aswell, from Syd.


User currently offlineSA7700 From South Africa, joined Dec 2003, 3431 posts, RR: 26
Reply 2, posted (6 years 11 months 3 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 5885 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
HEAD MODERATOR



Quoting United Airline (Thread starter):
Anything long haul let's say JNB?

Normally QF has 5x weekly flights to-and from JNB. During the summer holiday they had a 6th weekly flight, operated by a 743 via PER. That extra flight ends within the next 10 days, when QF will resume their normal 5x weekly services.


Rgds

SA7700



When you are doing stuff that nobody has done before, there is no manual – Kevin McCloud (Grand Designs)
User currently offlineVincewy From Taiwan, joined Oct 2005, 767 posts, RR: 1
Reply 3, posted (6 years 11 months 3 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 5881 times:



Quoting Jimma (Reply 1):
QF fly them SYD-PER 1 or 2 times day and also MEL-PER aswell, not sure how many times aday.

i thought that the 743's did some asia flights aswell, from Syd.

Both PER-SYD and PER-MEL are twice dailies (check timetable as it changes constantly), I think PER-MEL sometimes runs 3 times a day on certain days.


User currently offlineANstar From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2003, 5319 posts, RR: 7
Reply 4, posted (6 years 11 months 3 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 5848 times:

As has been stated they are usually used on domestic SYD/MEL-PER runs.

The will occasionally due an internaitonal service, however after the extra JNB seasonal flight ends I doubt we will see them do much else than domestic ops until they are retired


User currently offlineUnited Airline From Hong Kong, joined Jan 2001, 9216 posts, RR: 15
Reply 5, posted (6 years 11 months 3 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 5715 times:

Will they be flying to JNB again next year on a seasonal basis? I guess this is a fixed flight for Southern summer.

Don't they fly them elsewhere for long haul? Like Bali?

They still fly them to Los Angeles occasionally right?

I suppose they will still be around for a while


User currently offlineANstar From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2003, 5319 posts, RR: 7
Reply 6, posted (6 years 11 months 3 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 5701 times:



Quoting United Airline (Reply 5):
I suppose they will still be around for a while

I'd expect them to be gone by the end of 2009 as the A330's come back from Jetstar and go onto the SYD/MEL-PER runs


User currently offlineThegeek From Australia, joined Nov 2007, 2638 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (6 years 11 months 3 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 5658 times:



Quoting ANstar (Reply 6):
I'd expect them to be gone by the end of 2009 as the A330's come back from Jetstar and go onto the SYD/MEL-PER runs

If they display intelligence, they'll keep the A332s off the transcons and keep these for internationals. The A333 is significantly more suitable for the transcon mission as it not only has a higher capacity, but a significantly larger cargo space. The A332 is cargo challenged, unless they specially modify them to remove unnecessary body fuel tanks, which I also doubt they would do.


User currently offlineUnited Airline From Hong Kong, joined Jan 2001, 9216 posts, RR: 15
Reply 8, posted (6 years 11 months 3 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 5640 times:

Thought they are staying for another 3-5 years.

How many do they have now? 3-4?


User currently offlineANstar From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2003, 5319 posts, RR: 7
Reply 9, posted (6 years 11 months 3 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 5627 times:



Quoting Thegeek (Reply 7):
If they display intelligence, they'll keep the A332s off the transcons and keep these for internationals.

4 of the JQ 332's are unable to be fitted with Skybed, so I'm pretty sure they will go back to domestic ops.

Quoting United Airline (Reply 8):
Thought they are staying for another 3-5 years.

They have 4 and I very much doubt if they will still be in the fleet in 5 years time. Their reliablilty is starting to be a problem.


User currently offlineVHVXB From Australia, joined Apr 2006, 5525 posts, RR: 18
Reply 10, posted (6 years 11 months 3 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 5598 times:



Quoting United Airline (Thread starter):

During World Youth Day (in July) they will operate several flights to FCO via SIN/BKK and 2 flights to LAX via NAN


User currently offlineIkramerica From United States of America, joined May 2005, 21590 posts, RR: 59
Reply 11, posted (6 years 11 months 3 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 5557 times:



Quoting ANstar (Reply 9):
They have 4 and I very much doubt if they will still be in the fleet in 5 years time. Their reliablilty is starting to be a problem.

I would speculate that the oldest 744s will take over on SYD-PER and MEL-PER routes. There is a reason the 743s are on this route rather than already being retired, and that's because of the demand for seats. Especially when you take into account the curfew at SYD, you'd have to fly 2x 16:15 flights and 2x 00:15 red-eyes at a time (1 A330 + 1 738) to make up for the seats and still get in on time. Maybe they will do that in the future, but I still have my money on the 744s hanging around for this kind of duty as well as regional international, as the A380s take over for the premium long haul.



Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
User currently offlineMiami1 From Australia, joined Feb 2001, 706 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (6 years 11 months 3 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 5524 times:



Quoting Thegeek (Reply 7):
If they display intelligence, they'll keep the A332s off the transcons and keep these for internationals.

Care to back up your statement with any intelligence or figures from yourself?

The 332s did great on transcons and it is certainly making the very most out of the aircraft given that they cannot be fitted to international standard. The turn times are an issue on shorter routes but most definitely not on the transcons. The aircraft flew with derated engines and lower weights on domestic runs so that their charges are significantly less too. Qantas was working them optimally though they did do 1 x daily SYD-MEL, 1 x daily SYD-BNE and 1 x daily SYD-CNS. If they restricted the domestic 332s to transcons they would be using the aircraft (unsuited to international ops) at their optimum potential, in my opinion.

Current 743 Domestic Ops
2 to 3 daily SYD-PER and 2 x daily (ex Sa) MEL-PER. This has been the general pattern for quite some time now.


User currently offlineSpeedbird128 From Pitcairn Islands, joined Oct 2003, 1648 posts, RR: 2
Reply 13, posted (6 years 11 months 3 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 5435 times:

Yep as mentioned the B743 made a gues appearance here in JNB...

But the SA - Oz route I doubt can be covered by a twin...



A306, A313, A319, A320, A321, A332, A343, A345, A346 A388, AC90, B06, B722, B732, B733, B735, B738, B744, B762, B772, B7
User currently offlineThegeek From Australia, joined Nov 2007, 2638 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (6 years 11 months 3 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 5372 times:

Quoting ANstar (Reply 9):
4 of the JQ 332's are unable to be fitted with Skybed, so I'm pretty sure they will go back to domestic ops.

These are the ones that weren't new builds for JQ I presume? Is the floor not strong enough? When QF/JQ specified them this way, was the plan to bring them back to QF mainline not developed until it was too late to get adequate floor strength (or whatever the problem is)?

Quoting Miami1 (Reply 12):
Care to back up your statement with any intelligence or figures from yourself?

Thought I already did - piss poor cargo capacity in an A332 (at least compared to an A333), but I would add similar empty weight, so presumably similar fuel burn - the only real trip cost advantage would be one or two fewer F/A. Having a another 60+ seats to sell with similar trip costs would be a big plus.

[Edited 2008-01-12 03:51:53]

User currently offlinePilotdude09 From Australia, joined May 2005, 1777 posts, RR: 4
Reply 15, posted (6 years 11 months 3 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 5298 times:



Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 11):
I would speculate that the oldest 744s will take over on SYD-PER and MEL-PER routes. There is a reason the 743s are on this route rather than already being retired, and that's because of the demand for seats. Especially when you take into account the curfew at SYD, you'd have to fly 2x 16:15 flights and 2x 00:15 red-eyes at a time (1 A330 + 1 738) to make up for the seats and still get in on time. Maybe they will do that in the future, but I still have my money on the 744s hanging around for this kind of duty as well as regional international, as the A380s take over for the premium long haul.

Also its good for the 2 class 744's aswell.

Hopefully they do put the 744's on, it makes sense and alot of people enjoy flying the 743 because of the PTV's aswell and QF highly advertised the fact that you could "Fly Perth-Sydney via Hollywood" and still see the odd ad in the paper as well.

The amount of traffic is just going to get bigger and bigger in and out of Perth.



Qantas, Still calling Australia Home.........
User currently offlineMiami1 From Australia, joined Feb 2001, 706 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (6 years 11 months 3 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 5245 times:



Quoting Thegeek (Reply 14):
Thought I already did - piss poor cargo capacity in an A332 (at least compared to an A333), but I would add similar empty weight, so presumably similar fuel burn - the only real trip cost advantage would be one or two fewer F/A. Having a another 60+ seats to sell with similar trip costs would be a big plus.

Mate... Where to start?!

The A330s true role is for longer stages than transcons. HOWEVER. The 332 were purchased and modified for domestic use in mind - being lighter, lower weights and derated engines. To have the floors strengthened is cost prohibitive. So Qantas was using them to the best of their ability and usefulness. To put 333s on transcons over the 332s would be silly as they are configured to international operations, including the ability to offer international J seats. The first four 333s were configured for domestic operations initially (albeit with the standard strength floor), with domestic galleys and derated engines. The turn times proved too great for domestic flights with 343 pax and their baggage plus the extra cargo.

The cargo capacity on the 332 is far superior to the 763. Industry wide I do not think you would ever hear anyone mention the 332s cargo capacity being "piss poor."

The domestic 332s carry 303 passengers, which provided much needed uplift when the 743s were not available for domestic use. That's 68 MORE passengers than the 333s currently. Also minimum cabin crew for full passenger load on the domestic 332s was nine, with ten the minimum for service levels to be maintained. So that is no less crew than is required for the 333 - crewing levels are the same.

It is universally acknowledged that the decision to make the initial 332s modified for domestic operations was not the smartest in terms of versatility but it was what was required at the time . Remember the industry was extremely short of capacity post the Ansett collapse and Airbus virtually gave the smaller Airbuses away when the initial A380 deal went through - Qantas got them for a song. Qantas has found a niche for them on transcons where their extra passenger and cargo capacity come in handy. To sum this up Qantas had optimised this aircraft for the transcon role it served and used it at close to full potential, given its specs. I would call that intellegent.


User currently offlineJrfspa320 From Australia, joined Sep 2005, 253 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (6 years 11 months 3 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 5216 times:

Regarding the A330s. Its QF fault that the JQ 332s have a weaker floor as they specifically ordered them that way. Also the cargo capacity is similair to that of a 747 and in the 333 even exceeds it.
However the 330s are the wrong a/c for domestic ops, so they should they keep the 767s for that role. Im slightly pessimestic as to wether the 787 is going to perform any better than the 330 on domestic ops.


User currently offlineSA7700 From South Africa, joined Dec 2003, 3431 posts, RR: 26
Reply 18, posted (6 years 11 months 3 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 5185 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
HEAD MODERATOR



Quoting United Airline (Reply 5):
Will they be flying to JNB again next year on a seasonal basis? I guess this is a fixed flight for Southern summer.

Qantas plans to increase SYD-JNB-SYD flights to 6x weekly flights, from November 2008, pending government approval. They aim to ultimately make it a daily service.

Quoting Speedbird128 (Reply 13):
But the SA - Oz route I doubt can be covered by a twin...

 checkmark  Not with the current ETOPS restrictions



When you are doing stuff that nobody has done before, there is no manual – Kevin McCloud (Grand Designs)
User currently offlineThegeek From Australia, joined Nov 2007, 2638 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (6 years 11 months 3 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 5145 times:



Quoting Miami1 (Reply 16):
The domestic 332s carry 303 passengers, which provided much needed uplift when the 743s were not available for domestic use. That's 68 MORE passengers than the 333s currently. Also minimum cabin crew for full passenger load on the domestic 332s was nine, with ten the minimum for service levels to be maintained. So that is no less crew than is required for the 333 - crewing levels are the same.

Not sure where you get your numbers here. An A333 only carries 235? That's an A332 in QF international config. Actual numbers for QF & JQ configs from their websites are:

JQ A332: 303 2-class (38J, 265Y)
QF A332: 235 2-class (36J, 199Y)
QF A333: 297 2-class (30J, 267Y)

I didn't know about the floor limitation of the early A332s, and I'm still not sure what they were smoking when they asked for them to be that way. It seems that what to do with these planes is a problem not easily solved. Couldn't you use them on certain routes currently served by 763s? HNL, MNL spring to mind. Or leave them in JQ, but you wouldn't want a 3 type JQ.


User currently offlineClassicLover From Ireland, joined Mar 2004, 4660 posts, RR: 23
Reply 20, posted (6 years 11 months 3 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 4960 times:



Quoting Thegeek (Reply 19):
I didn't know about the floor limitation of the early A332s, and I'm still not sure what they were smoking when they asked for them to be that way. It seems that what to do with these planes is a problem not easily solved. Couldn't you use them on certain routes currently served by 763s? HNL, MNL spring to mind. Or leave them in JQ, but you wouldn't want a 3 type JQ.

I imagine the unstrengthened floor is lighter, which would make sense.

At a guess, the 4 x original A332s and the 2 extras that JQ has will go back to QF to service Sydney and Melbourne to Perth, replacing 4 x 743. At a guess! I'd say that will happen for sure.



I do quite enjoy a spot of flying - more so when it's not in Economy!
User currently offlinePilotdude09 From Australia, joined May 2005, 1777 posts, RR: 4
Reply 21, posted (6 years 11 months 3 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 4685 times:



Quoting Miami1 (Reply 16):
The first four 333s were configured for domestic operations initially (albeit with the standard strength floor), with domestic galleys and derated engines. The turn times proved too great for domestic flights with 343 pax and their baggage plus the extra cargo.

Remember flying the A333's with no avod a couple times.

Quoting Jrfspa320 (Reply 17):
so they should they keep the 767s for that role

God no, they are being refurbed but they certainly arent flash, i had to go to SYD a few weeks ago for a day, i flew the A333 over in the morning and got the 767 back to PER the next morning, i will do whatever it takes to make sure im never on a 767 again, it was in old config, dated, IFE played up (f/a's said its a regular occurance), audio wasnt working and it was just a farce.

The A333 was the complete opposite, nice with avod and quite a bit more leg room.

Quoting ClassicLover (Reply 20):
At a guess, the 4 x original A332s and the 2 extras that JQ has will go back to QF to service Sydney and Melbourne to Perth, replacing 4 x 743. At a guess! I'd say that will happen for sure.

Thats a definite, however if Dixon goes before the 787's arrive you may see the first ones go to QF, even the Chairman and other execs in the company and CASA are asking questions as to why JQ (the low cost) getting brand spanking new planes with massive advances in technology (CASA's concern) over the premium part of the business and QF is always going on about it being short of capacity yadda yadda yadda yet the get new planes and not one of them is going to QF for a couple of years??????

It will be interesting to see what happens, as QF should be getting these 787's first, they are going to have decent entertainment and thats what people want and a good cabin and Y+ (i assume?) which could be sold or used to upgrade F/F's too, which would give QF a good image as well...

From mid year i think they said PER to SYD/MEL is going to be widebody only and no 738's operating it, so it'll be 767's and 747's running it.

Also the 744 runs PER-SYD/MEL quite often, you see it on ACARS alot, and QF will know how much cheaper and reliable the 744 is over the 743 on transcons.



Qantas, Still calling Australia Home.........
User currently offlineSydscott From Australia, joined Oct 2003, 3189 posts, RR: 20
Reply 22, posted (6 years 11 months 3 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 4600 times:



Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 11):
I would speculate that the oldest 744s will take over on SYD-PER and MEL-PER routes.



Quoting Pilotdude09 (Reply 21):
From mid year i think they said PER to SYD/MEL is going to be widebody only and no 738's operating it, so it'll be 767's and 747's running it.

Sorry gents, you are incorrect. There will be no Boeing 747's on domestic services to the West. See below for the announcement.

http://www.qantas.com.au/regions/dyn.../details?ArticleID=2007/aug07/3643

It'll be an A330 and 767 exclusive service to SYD and MEL. So I'd say that the speculation that the original 4 A332's that are currently with JQ will return is correct.

Quoting Pilotdude09 (Reply 21):
Thats a definite, however if Dixon goes before the 787's arrive you may see the first ones go to QF, even the Chairman and other execs in the company and CASA are asking questions as to why JQ (the low cost) getting brand spanking new planes with massive advances in technology (CASA's concern) over the premium part of the business and QF is always going on about it being short of capacity yadda yadda yadda yet the get new planes and not one of them is going to QF for a couple of years??????

That's not quite correct. QF mainline is scheduled to receive 3 x A380's this year and another 5 x A332's to go along with the 1 x A332 delivered in December 06. These are to be used ;

1. to eliminate the tech stop and make SYD-BOM-SYD a non-stop service both ways;
2. MEL-AKL-LAX 3 times per week;
3. MEL - Shanghai 2 times per week.

So from the QF group perspective its important that the first 787's go to JQ so the 6 A332's they operate come back to QF.

And I don't know why CASA would be concerned with JQ operating the 787 before QF mainline. When it comes down to it the maintenance and into service stuff will be done by QF so it shouldn't make a difference.


User currently offlineThegeek From Australia, joined Nov 2007, 2638 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (6 years 11 months 3 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 4580 times:



Quoting ClassicLover (Reply 20):
I imagine the unstrengthened floor is lighter, which would make sense.

For that argument to work for me, they should have specified the A332s without the body fuel tanks.

Quoting Pilotdude09 (Reply 21):
Quoting ClassicLover (Reply 20):
At a guess, the 4 x original A332s and the 2 extras that JQ has will go back to QF to service Sydney and Melbourne to Perth, replacing 4 x 743. At a guess! I'd say that will happen for sure.

Thats a definite, however if Dixon goes before the 787's arrive you may see the first ones go to QF, even the Chairman and other execs in the company and CASA are asking questions as to why JQ (the low cost) getting brand spanking new planes with massive advances in technology (CASA's concern) over the premium part of the business and QF is always going on about it being short of capacity yadda yadda yadda yet the get new planes and not one of them is going to QF for a couple of years??????

It will be interesting to see what happens, as QF should be getting these 787's first, they are going to have decent entertainment and thats what people want and a good cabin and Y (i assume?) which could be sold or used to upgrade F/F's too, which would give QF a good image as well...

 checkmark 

I would add this would save bothering to reconfigure the existing JQ A332s to QF configuration, as well as increasing the size of the QF B787 flight crew pool to make multiple bases viable, which should reduce paxing and/or overnights. The only real problem with all this is unless all the A330s can go over to JQ, you still have an extra type within QF.

Argh! If the floor argument doesn't even apply to the other two JQ A332s, why are these not going to international?

So, if Dixon goes before the 787s arrive sanity could prevail? I think he's planning to hang around for a couple more years, so I think that is doubtful.


User currently offlineANstar From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2003, 5319 posts, RR: 7
Reply 24, posted (6 years 11 months 3 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 4512 times:



Quoting Sydscott (Reply 22):
Sorry gents, you are incorrect. There will be no Boeing 747's on domestic services to the West. See below for the announcement.

http://www.qantas.com.au/regions/dyn.../details?ArticleID=2007/aug07/3643

It'll be an A330 and 767 exclusive service to SYD and MEL. So I'd say that the speculation that the original 4 A332's that are currently with JQ will return is correct.

Exactly... With the 332's arriving at QF this year, this free's up some 767's from intnerational (ie PER/BNE/SYD-HKG) to come back to domestic. Also as the 787's arrive for JQ next year ,then that is the light weight floor 332's back to QF, so I am pretty confident that the 743's will be gone by the end of next year.


25 QF744ER : I did hear recently that FJ was looking at replacing their leased 2 x SQ B744's so SQ can have them back for cargo conversion. I heard that QF was loo
26 ANstar : I believe QF are getting 3 A380's this year, and I think one of the 747's will be used for BNE-LAX & and extra JNB servcies... I think the other one
27 Jbernie : I am with you on this, I am not sure myself, but I am of the opinion that QF will always need 744s and most likely 748s to fly to Sth Africa and Sth
28 Ikramerica : It'll be interesting to see how long the A330/767 thing lasts. SYD is artificially constrained with the curfew, and with PER-SYD only being 4 hours,
29 Jamie86 : Yes they have THANK GOD! They were horrible to work on going up to LAX and return.
30 Jbernie : Thanks for the update, we very much enjoyed the 744s both directions, a most enjoyable experience.
31 Zkpilot : As mentioned, they operate the domestic ops between SYD/MEL and PER. They work on a pretty good rotation schedule for these flights... ie Aircraft 1 l
32 9MMPD : I think the older 744s that won't recive the BCF program will be put on some Trans Con services and this is why. With Qantas saying that PER - MEL/SYD
33 Miami1 : Yeah sorry Mate, that's what I was meaning to say. Oops!
34 Pilotdude09 : Its good that they are giving them back to QF but also see my comments below........ Agree with you. Right, now you have 2 743' 52 business seats and
35 Thegeek : I agree that in spite of the QF announcements to the contrary, there is a strong possibility that 2 class B744s will fly to Perth. The red-eyes are th
36 Gemuser : Assuming A380 deliveries continue to schedule or better the B743 will be around until 2010. Why? Because QF have signed a contract with the FEs until
37 United Airline : So I guess they will be around for a while......... interesting
38 Sydscott : First off Perth can't cope with what it has now because of the 743's being used. A better spread of departing services using 767's and A330's would l
39 Thegeek : I wouldn't put my house on that one! We're not privy to the terms of that contract - it could have a clause to allow QF to get out of it early with 3
40 CupraIbiza : The bulk of the airfreight exports out of Australia is traditionally perishables. The drought has decimated this. From what I have heard around the t
41 Gemuser : Of course not! But it is a good indication of current thinking, its also only 16 months after the first A380 is due to be delivered. Not in most case
42 Thegeek : That may be, but several months of piloting instruction is likely to be more cost effective than a six figure redundancy payout.
43 Gemuser : Yer reckon? I really doubt it, especally when you addin the FEs salary and the cost of the flight hours necessary to get an APL rating (1000 hrs???)
44 Zkpilot : Yes they have for now... the 743 barely has the legs for LAX-AKL let alone LAX-Oz!!! LAX-AKL has B-zone blocked off because its weight restricted wit
45 ZK-NBT : It will be interesting to see what happens with the 332's being that they have 175 less seats than the 2 class 744's on AKL-LAX but they have Skybed
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