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Kingfisher To Wet Lease 4 A330/A340's To Air India  
User currently offlineWINGS From Portugal, joined May 2005, 2831 posts, RR: 68
Posted (6 years 9 months 2 weeks 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 9938 times:

Has to be one of the most unexpected development in 2008. Still will be interesting to see what color scheme these airplanes will be delivered in.

It will also make Air India the first airline to operate both the 77L and A345HGW at the same time. This way, we might even get a better understanding ( range/fuel burn) differences between these two rivals.

http://www.financialexpress.com/news...-4-new-Airbus-to-Air-India/260551/

New Delhi, Jan 11 Vijay Mallya-led Kingfisher Airlines will wet lease four of its new Airbus long haul aircraft, which it will receive from April onwards to the public carrier Air India.

Kingfisher will receive one Airbus A340 in the first week of April, which was initially expected to be delivered in March. The other three Airbus will arrive in the subsequent months.

The two A340 have already been mandated to be for the US market by Kingfisher while the two A330s will be for the European market and will fly to London from Delhi and Mumbai respectively.

Under wet lease as opposed to dry lease, a carrier leases its aircraft to someone else along with its crew. Whether the aircraft will be painted in Air India's colours and the crew will wear Air India uniforms is still unclear.

The first A340 will fly from Bangalore to San Francisco non-stop when kingfisher receives its clearance to fly overseas. Recently civil aviation minister, Praful Patel said that Kingfisher would be allowed to fly international routes as it had become part of Deccan, which will complete five years of operation in August this year and thereby be eligible to fly abroad.



Regards,
Wings


Aviation Is A Passion.
22 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineSolnabo From Sweden, joined Jan 2008, 854 posts, RR: 2
Reply 1, posted (6 years 9 months 2 weeks 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 9914 times:

Hi WINGS

Thx for the article.
Jeee, range Bangalore - Frisco is 14031 km / 7576 nm, quite a trip...

Micke  eyepopping 



Airbus SAS - Love them both
User currently offlineAg92 From India, joined Jul 2006, 1317 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (6 years 9 months 2 weeks 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 9864 times:



Quoting WINGS (Thread starter):
Under wet lease as opposed to dry lease, a carrier leases its aircraft to someone else along with its crew. Whether the aircraft will be painted in Air India's colours and the crew will wear Air India uniforms is still unclear.

Hmmm, that doesn't quite fit in with KingFisher's policy of hiring models was it?


User currently offlineThorben From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (6 years 9 months 2 weeks 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 9830 times:

Interesting development. I never thought I'd see AI with A330s or A340s, but things change.

Quoting WINGS (Thread starter):
The first A340 will fly from Bangalore to San Francisco non-stop when kingfisher receives its clearance to fly overseas. Recently civil aviation minister, Praful Patel said that Kingfisher would be allowed to fly international routes as it had become part of Deccan, which will complete five years of operation in August this year and thereby be eligible to fly abroad.

So IT will start flights to the US in August and only wet-lease the planes for a few month to AI?


User currently offlineKappel From Suriname, joined Jul 2005, 3533 posts, RR: 17
Reply 4, posted (6 years 9 months 2 weeks 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 9624 times:



Quoting Thorben (Reply 3):
So IT will start flights to the US in August and only wet-lease the planes for a few month to AI?

IIRC a wet lease is usually short term, otherwise they would rather dry lease (like the a343's of SAA to Jet AW)



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User currently offlineOldAeroGuy From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 3548 posts, RR: 67
Reply 5, posted (6 years 9 months 2 weeks 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 9293 times:

Sounds like a crew training exercise for Kingfisher if they do begin US flights in August.


Airplane design is easy, the difficulty is getting them to fly - Barnes Wallis
User currently offlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 31125 posts, RR: 85
Reply 6, posted (6 years 9 months 2 weeks 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 9274 times:
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Quoting OldAeroGuy (Reply 5):
Sounds like a crew training exercise for Kingfisher if they do begin US flights in August.

Either that or the Indian government is going to hold IT to the "five year rule" before they can launch international operations. Does anyone know how long IT has before they reach that minimum?


User currently offlineThorben From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (6 years 9 months 2 weeks 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 9021 times:



Quoting Stitch (Reply 6):
Either that or the Indian government is going to hold IT to the "five year rule" before they can launch international operations. Does anyone know how long IT has before they reach that minimum?

See 'ere:

Quoting WINGS (Thread starter):
Praful Patel said that Kingfisher would be allowed to fly international routes as it had become part of Deccan, which will complete five years of operation in August this year and thereby be eligible to fly abroad.



User currently offlineJustbala From India, joined Feb 2006, 169 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (6 years 9 months 2 weeks 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 8729 times:

Would tht make AI the airline with the most diverse Boeing/Airbus fleet portfolio ?!! .. They wud b flying the B737, B747, B757, B767, B777 , A300, A310, A320, A330, A340 and an off ATR-42!!


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User currently offlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 31125 posts, RR: 85
Reply 9, posted (6 years 9 months 2 weeks 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 8663 times:
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Quoting Thorben (Reply 7):
See 'ere:

Thanks.

So it's likely crew-training.


User currently offlineThorben From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (6 years 9 months 2 weeks 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 8605 times:



Quoting Stitch (Reply 9):
Thanks.

So it's likely crew-training.

Rather a usage of the plane that brings some money in. Pure training could be done on inner-Indian routes.


User currently offlineOldAeroGuy From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 3548 posts, RR: 67
Reply 11, posted (6 years 9 months 2 weeks 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 8264 times:



Quoting Thorben (Reply 10):
Pure training could be done on inner-Indian routes.

Not if they're trying to build international flight experience. BLR-SFO is lot different than BLR-DEL.



Airplane design is easy, the difficulty is getting them to fly - Barnes Wallis
User currently offlineVimanav From India, joined Jul 2003, 1516 posts, RR: 14
Reply 12, posted (6 years 9 months 2 weeks 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 8246 times:



Quoting Justbala (Reply 8):
They wud b flying the B737, B747, B757, B767, B777 , A300, A310, A320, A330, A340 and an off ATR-42!!

...and not to forget the CRJ700 and Do-228. If you take into consideration the various marques of each type, then the figures are even more mind boggling.

rgds//Vimanav



Sarfaroshi kii tamannaa ab hamaare dil mein hai, Dekhnaa hai zor kitnaa baazu-e-qaatil mein hai
User currently offlineA342 From Germany, joined Jul 2005, 4689 posts, RR: 3
Reply 13, posted (6 years 9 months 2 weeks 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 8206 times:



Quoting Justbala (Reply 8):
Would tht make AI the airline with the most diverse Boeing/Airbus fleet portfolio ?!! .. They wud b flying the B737, B747, B757, B767, B777 , A300, A310, A320, A330, A340 and an off ATR-42!!

The 757 and 767s are operated by other carriers, and the A300 is on the way out, I suppose.



Exceptions confirm the rule.
User currently offlineVimanav From India, joined Jul 2003, 1516 posts, RR: 14
Reply 14, posted (6 years 9 months 2 weeks 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 8102 times:



Quoting A342 (Reply 13):
The 757 and 767s are operated by other carriers

Did not get your point as both types leased by AI and currently in service with them.

rgds//Vimanav



Sarfaroshi kii tamannaa ab hamaare dil mein hai, Dekhnaa hai zor kitnaa baazu-e-qaatil mein hai
User currently offlineLightsaber From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 13271 posts, RR: 100
Reply 15, posted (6 years 9 months 2 weeks 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 8041 times:
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Quoting OldAeroGuy (Reply 5):
Sounds like a crew training exercise for Kingfisher if they do begin US flights in August.

That it does... Why would AI effectively subsidize IT's learning curve on long haul routes?!? Now, I understand flights from the West coast US to India are at an extreme premium right now...

But what in this for AI? Are they expected to receive new airframes at the end of this wet lease? For all contracts have two parties. I can understand why IT is doing this, but how long is the contract and what will AI do at the end of the wet lease? Please note I'm asking. Can any of my a.netters give me better information on the AI side of this? Thanks in advance.

Quoting WINGS (Thread starter):
Has to be one of the most unexpected development in 2008. Still will be interesting to see what color scheme these airplanes will be delivered in.

 checkmark  Very unexpected. Ok, I know its very 'tin foil hat', but was their political pressure to make this deal happen?

Quoting WINGS (Thread starter):
The first A340 will fly from Bangalore to San Francisco non-stop when kingfisher receives its clearance to fly overseas. Recently civil aviation minister, Praful Patel said that Kingfisher would be allowed to fly international routes as it had become part of Deccan, which will complete five years of operation in August this year and thereby be eligible to fly abroad.

What's the expected routings of the A330s? I could see BLR-HKG-SFO or LAX.  Smile

Wow... when it comes to the Indian airline threads, I only seem to have questions. But hey, that's one reason to be on a.net, to learn.  spin 

Lightsaber



Societies that achieve a critical mass of ideas achieve self sustaining growth; others stagnate.
User currently offlineA342 From Germany, joined Jul 2005, 4689 posts, RR: 3
Reply 16, posted (6 years 9 months 2 weeks 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 8041 times:



Quoting Vimanav (Reply 14):
Did not get your point as both types leased by AI and currently in service with them.

They can't really be considered a part of the AI fleet. AI isn't operating them, they're operated FOR AI.


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Exceptions confirm the rule.
User currently offlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 31125 posts, RR: 85
Reply 17, posted (6 years 9 months 2 weeks 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 7601 times:
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Quoting Lightsaber (Reply 15):
But what in this for AI? Are they expected to receive new airframes at the end of this wet lease?

AI took months - literally - to take delivery of their 77Ls and 77Ws after they were completed. I no longer work next to PAE so I haven't been able to follow movements anymore, but perhaps AI is short of 777 pilots and needs the IT planes and crews to service routes planned to be used by the next wave of 777s until they can get the pilots trained?


User currently offlineCricket From India, joined Aug 2005, 2971 posts, RR: 7
Reply 18, posted (6 years 9 months 2 weeks 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 6800 times:

Basically, this is PP's way of apologising to VJM for not getting the permission fast enough! I wonder what the lease rates will be like?


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User currently offlineBlrBird From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 579 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (6 years 9 months 2 weeks 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 6785 times:



Quoting Cricket (Reply 18):
Basically, this is PP's way of apologising to VJM for not getting the permission fast enough! I wonder what the lease rates will be like?

Confused... I thought IT can fly international from August on DN certificate. Is that not the case any more?



from star dust....
User currently offlineAirbazar From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 8493 posts, RR: 10
Reply 20, posted (6 years 9 months 2 weeks 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 6227 times:



Quoting Lightsaber (Reply 15):
That it does... Why would AI effectively subsidize IT's learning curve on long haul routes?!? Now, I understand flights from the West coast US to India are at an extreme premium right now...

They're [AI] a government owned airline. Does it have to make sense?  Smile It's basically the government saying, we won't let you fly until you meet the 5 year requirement but here's how you can circunvent that requirement in order to get a head start.


User currently offlineCricket From India, joined Aug 2005, 2971 posts, RR: 7
Reply 21, posted (6 years 9 months 2 weeks 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 6179 times:



Quoting BlrBird (Reply 19):
Confused... I thought IT can fly international from August on DN certificate. Is that not the case any more?

There was talk that Kingfisher might get be getting permission to fly abroad before August, so much so that it was speculated that Kingfisher might start international flights by June. This was to be decided by the Ministerial Committee, but because some ministers were throwing a spanner in the works - by talking financial health should also be a criteria, Praful Patel decided not to press the issue further. From August however, Kingfisher will be able to fly abroad since by then all modalities of the merger will be completed.



A300B2/B4/6R, A313, A319/320/321, A333, A343, A388, 737-2/3/4/7/8/9, 747-3/4, 772/2E/2L/3, E170/190, F70, CR2/7, 146-3,
User currently offlineNimish From India, joined Feb 2005, 3262 posts, RR: 9
Reply 22, posted (6 years 9 months 2 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 5891 times:

This will be good for both IT and AI, where IT will get much needed international operational exposure and plenty of brand exposure as well. AI will get some lift in the interim while it gets its act together on its new fleet of 777s and crew to operate them!


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