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Some Hubs I Just Don't Understand  
User currently offlineAFKLMLHLX From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (6 years 11 months 2 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 13487 times:

Hubs are characterized by geography, size of the airline, facilities ect, and there are some great hubs, but there are some stupid ones, which should be improved. I feel that the perfect hub is one that the hub airline has acess to its whole terminal, has customs within its hub terminal so when you want to connect to your next flight, your not at some IAB with ten gates and a million planes which just push back ten minutes later. Also, I love crew spotting at hubs, I love how there are a million flights dep/arriving at once all by one airline and you see crews talking to each other, waiting, and idk it is just interesting, especially because I do want to be a commercial pilot some day.

So, ORD is a major hub I do not understand. When flying domestically, I love it, because it contains all of things I mentioned above except one, no customs in the UA or AA terminal! This really is a major drawback. I mean, in T5, most of the INT airlines flights dep/arrive from that terminal and UA and AA just push back to the next departure gate. I mean, people do connect from int-int and int-domestic, it is a major drawback for a supposedly streamlined hub like ORD. I mean, why don't they add customs to the T1 and T2? It is so essential to streamline those hubs.

JFK. I love going to JFK as it is my favorite airport. And I feel that it is a great kind of smaller hub for airlines because almost every terminal has customs and it is easy to connect within flying the same hub airline IE AA or DL. But, what I do not get is, how can people connect there if their routing is like, CDG-JFK (AF) JFK-SEA (DL)? I mean, every terminal is separate there, it is not like ATL where the monorail is an easy way to connect. At JFK, I feel like it is impossible to connect, because you leave the terminal and then re-enter in a different terminal. When I was at ZRH, I did have to take a monorail to E, but I never really left the airport terminal, and it was fast and easy. I mean JFK was not built to be used for intra terminal connecting flights. Even though In Zurich, I did have to go through security again, I didn't have to go through customs like one does when connecting at an American airport.

FRA is also another one I do not get. Although, I do like how it definately has branding to it with the LH signs on all of the gates in their terminal and how it really does have a connecting feel I mean it is not a very O&D airport. But, I don't like how you have to go through security so many times (as I've heard)! I mean, how can you have an efficient hub when there are unneeded security checks. One good thing about American airports is that they don't single out flights to different places. Everybody goes through security, and once your through security, it is completely steril. I mean, LH's purpose for that hub is for people to connect. I mean I know Germany has 80 million people living in it, but out of all European airlines, LH's MUC and FRA hubs are more meant to connect than mostly all others, besides maybe AMS and CDG. They definately have to figure something out there.

I guess a well built hub definately depends on the number of gates (I hate using remote stands, I like the feeling of boarding by gate, cause then i can see the crew board, passangers get off/on the plane ect, makes things simpler), the customs situation (you cannot have a good hub if customs are located in completely separate terminals) geography (amount of O&D, buisness, location of city within its continent) and airline which serves it.

88 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offline777STL From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 3768 posts, RR: 3
Reply 1, posted (6 years 11 months 2 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 13478 times:



Quoting AFKLMLHLX (Thread starter):
So, ORD is a major hub I do not understand. When flying domestically, I love it, because it contains all of things I mentioned above except one, no customs in the UA or AA terminal! This really is a major drawback. I mean, in T5, most of the INT airlines flights dep/arrive from that terminal and UA and AA just push back to the next departure gate. I mean, people do connect from int-int and int-domestic, it is a major drawback for a supposedly streamlined hub like ORD. I mean, why don't they add customs to the T1 and T2? It is so essential to streamline those hubs.

I think you need to separate the airports themselves from the airlines that make them their hubs.

I don't think it's AA or UA's fault that they don't have customs in their respective terminals.



PHX based
User currently offlineCubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 23302 posts, RR: 20
Reply 2, posted (6 years 11 months 2 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 13440 times:



Quoting 777STL (Reply 1):

I don't think it's AA or UA's fault that they don't have customs in their respective terminals.

The city is ready to build it if they are ready to pay. In that way, it's certainly their fault. Finances are really all that is holding up the World Gateway program (which has been ready to go 2 years longer than the already begun OMP).



I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
User currently offline777STL From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 3768 posts, RR: 3
Reply 3, posted (6 years 11 months 2 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 13313 times:



Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 2):
The city is ready to build it if they are ready to pay. In that way, it's certainly their fault. Finances are really all that is holding up the World Gateway program (which has been ready to go 2 years longer than the already begun OMP).

AA or UA investing money in infrastructure?

Hah!



PHX based
User currently offlineSteeler83 From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 9268 posts, RR: 21
Reply 4, posted (6 years 11 months 2 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 13234 times:

How about hub airports where the commuter terminals are completely separate, and on the opposite side of the airfield from mainline?

Having to go from one end of the terminal to another because of customs does not make too much sense tho eihter. Does ATL also come to mind here? My girlfriend had to go through security 2 or 3 times on her way from PHL to Puerto Vallarta on DL via ATL. That was not fun according to her...



Do not bring stranger girt into your room. The stranger girt is dangerous, it will hurt your life.
User currently offlineDoona From Sweden, joined Feb 2005, 3772 posts, RR: 13
Reply 5, posted (6 years 11 months 2 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 13182 times:



Quoting AFKLMLHLX (Thread starter):
But, I don't like how you have to go through security so many times (as I've heard)! I mean, how can you have an efficient hub when there are unneeded security checks. One good thing about American airports is that they don't single out flights to different places. Everybody goes through security, and once your through security, it is completely steril.

I went through security once last time I was at FRA, connecting from a KE flight from ICN to an SK flight to CPH (with a change of terminals). And I'm not sure that things can get more steril than a German airport anyway.

And I'm not sure what you mean when you write "they don't single out flights to different places". The only thing resembling "singling out" in Europe I can think of is making people go through passport-control before getting on their plane, when travelling to non-Schengen countries. But it's not an extra security check, it's just walking up to a desk and flashing your passport.

Quoting AFKLMLHLX (Thread starter):
I guess a well built hub definately depends on the number of gates (I hate using remote stands, I like the feeling of boarding by gate, cause then i can see the crew board, passangers get off/on the plane ect, makes things simpler)

Oh, I disagree. Boarding by bus and airstair is way more fun! How often do we mere mortals get to ride out onto the tarmac and step out into the open air of an int'l airport? Feel the wind in our hair, and hear the roar of jet engines nearby? It's late and I'm getting cheezy, but I love it. As long as it isn't raining.

And I couldn't agree more with you on the ORD thing. And the JFK transfer situation (but aren't there airside transit buses or something? They have them at CVG).

Cheers
Mats



Sure, we're concerned for our lives. Just not as concerned as saving 9 bucks on a roundtrip to Ft. Myers.
User currently offlineNYC2theworld From United States of America, joined Mar 2007, 666 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (6 years 11 months 2 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 13180 times:

Quoting AFKLMLHLX (Thread starter):
At JFK, I feel like it is impossible to connect, because you leave the terminal and then re-enter in a different terminal.

That doesn't make it impossible to connect, maybe more difficult but not impossible. In fact, its quite easy to connect at JFK. Impossible is connecting at 4-9PM when the AirTrain is not running and the busses are back.

Quoting AFKLMLHLX (Thread starter):
I mean JFK was not built to be used for intra terminal connecting flights

That means JFK was not designed for connections within the same terminal building...the term you are looking for is interterminal connections. if JFK had a post-security airtrain, then, it would be just as easy to connect at ATL. Since there is very little need to connect all the terminals together (i.e. ATL since) it is not economic to do so (since most airlines operate out of 1 terminal, where Delta uses multiple terminals). Possibly the only terminal that would need to be connected would be T1 and T2/3 (for DL/AF connections) and T7 with T8/9 (BA/AA connections).

DL is not going to want to pay rent to make it easier for its customers to connect to a B6 flight.

As for FRA...the reason is that there are different checkpoints due to flights within the Schengen treaty zone, flights leaving the Schengen treaty zone, and flights to areas that require additional security screening (i.e. TLV). That design is going to be the same for all airports in the Schengen treaty zone.

edited to correct B6 reference

[Edited 2008-01-12 18:12:23]


Always wonderers if this "last and final boarding call" is in fact THE last and final boarding call.
User currently offlineAFKLMLHLX From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (6 years 11 months 2 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 13084 times:

The funny thing about the Schengen, is that although it is supposed to simplify oporations, it confuses things depending on the airport. Thats where geography plays a huge role in hubs. In America, so much of flying is done domestically, that it really simplifies opporations for hub or non hub airlines at airports. And Europe as a whole is trying to create something like that, but if there are a few missing links (IE UK and Ireland, Switzerland (not for long)) it really confuses the whole thing. I mean, if hub airlines and alliances didn't exist, then it would be easier because there would be no need to consolidate operations because it just would not matter. But I mean, especially because all of the airports in europe i have been to require pre-departure passport checks for non Schengen flights, that means there are many different areas that need to be built. I mean, in the states all flights are treated equally when they are departing but where your plane arrived from has a lot to do with where you depart even in America. Most airlines have their own terminals at hub airports, so that really eases things, but besides that, there is usually an international terminal. So when an intl flight arrives in an intl terminal, it arrives into a gate equiped with a steril route to customs. And, its next flight will also be intl so it does not need to go to a "Schengen" terminal like in Europe. I always wonder why Europe requires passangers to go through passport control prior to departure when flying from Schengen or UK/Ireland to a non Schengen destination. I mean as long as one goes through security, then isnt that all that matters?

User currently offlineEvan767 From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 2957 posts, RR: 2
Reply 8, posted (6 years 11 months 2 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 13068 times:



Quoting Steeler83 (Reply 4):
My girlfriend had to go through security 2 or 3 times on her way from PHL to Puerto Vallarta on DL via ATL. That was not fun according to her...

That's funny, I flew RIC to PVR via ATL, and the only time I had to go through security was once, and that was in Richmond.



The proper term is "on final" not "on finals" bud...
User currently offlineLO231 From Belgium, joined Sep 2004, 2392 posts, RR: 22
Reply 9, posted (6 years 11 months 2 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 12930 times:



Quoting AFKLMLHLX (Reply 7):
I always wonder why Europe requires passangers to go through passport control prior to departure when flying from Schengen or UK/Ireland to a non Schengen destination. I mean as long as one goes through security, then isnt that all that matters?

No, because even flying between non-Schengen and Schengen countries requires a pasport, or in some cases, a national ID card. It's still international travel, not like travel between the States WITHIN the US...

Regards,
LO231



Got both LO 788 frames already, next LO E95 and 734 BRU-WAW-BRU
User currently offlineAFKLMLHLX From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (6 years 11 months 2 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 12862 times:

That is not what I am saying. And even so, isnt that all taken care of on arrival? I mean, the only thing which matters when departing is security. Sometimes they ask to see your passport at your gate in the US but is isnt like a formal thing which requires different areas and what not. I mean, it seems quite redundant to me for people to have to go through passport control when departing and upon arrival. When I was in BCN, I could walk right up to the gate in the Schengen pier, but for my flight to ZRH, I had to go through passport control to another pier grouped with all other international flights cause flights to ZRH are still concidered intl at the present moment. But my question still lies, why can't all flights departing from Schengen airports, just treat all flight the sames while they are in the airport departing? As long as your in the country already, its fine. Oh also, you can technically sneak into a country illegally in a Schengen country if you connect in a specific airport. For examle, if you go from EWR-AMS-FRA, you do not have to go through customs upon arrival at AMS i believe when connecting, and AMS-FRA is technically a domestic flight, so you could sneak it potentially.

User currently offlineCitrusCritter From United States of America, joined May 2007, 1131 posts, RR: 3
Reply 11, posted (6 years 11 months 2 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 12833 times:



Quoting Steeler83 (Reply 4):
Having to go from one end of the terminal to another because of customs does not make too much sense tho eihter. Does ATL also come to mind here? My girlfriend had to go through security 2 or 3 times on her way from PHL to Puerto Vallarta on DL via ATL. That was not fun according to her...

There is no part of the ATL airport that requires you to clear security if you're connecting flights. All terminals are past the security checkpoint.


User currently offlineAFKLMLHLX From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (6 years 11 months 2 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 12810 times:

Oh also, geography does play a huge part in hubs as well. For example, in the US, so much of flying is concidered domestic, that much of the terminal being occupied is for domestic flights. But in europe, because of the fact that they segregate flights based on Schengen, domestic (some airports/countries) and international, it creates for much more confusion in terminal consolidation. Espeically in the UK and Ireland, where so little of their flights are concidered domestic, and yet its not like Switzerland where that one ZRH-GVA flight is concidered international, it makes it very hard for an airline like BA to really be a hub airline on that level and many others. I mean, the fact that they have two separate airports serving the same city as their hub is so ridiculous. I know that Bermuda II plays a huge part in that, but I mean one, Heathrow is horrible just because there are so many airlines oporating out of every which gate with what seems like no planning and BA oporates so sporatically out of Heathrow. Also, they repeat so many of the same routes out of Gatwick! I mean I think out all airlines, BA is rated worst with it's hub. To have a hub out of two separate airports and even at those airports where oporations barely even provide any branding to the fact that Heathrow should be BA and BMI( to a lesser extent) country, Heathrow is just horrible. Maybe once T5 opens, BA will finally shape Heathrow into an actual hub.

User currently offlineLO231 From Belgium, joined Sep 2004, 2392 posts, RR: 22
Reply 13, posted (6 years 11 months 2 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 12803 times:



Quoting AFKLMLHLX (Reply 10):
That is not what I am saying. And even so, isnt that all taken care of on arrival? I mean, the only thing which matters when departing is security. Sometimes they ask to see your passport at your gate in the US but is isnt like a formal thing which requires different areas and what not.

If you fly let's say from US to France via AMS, passport control will happen in AMS, because you're entering Schengen for the first time.. They need to do it because after the flight from AMS, in Fra there will not be any passport control on arrival...

Quoting AFKLMLHLX (Reply 10):
For examle, if you go from EWR-AMS-FRA, you do not have to go through customs upon arrival at AMS i believe when connecting, and AMS-FRA is technically a domestic flight, so you could sneak it potentially.

You can be pulled out for custome in FRA, your luggage won't be having green edge tags which are only issued in the EU. I've had this once in BRU, I came from AMS, but I flew from JFK before that. They could see the tags and directed me to non-EU exit

Regards,
LO231



Got both LO 788 frames already, next LO E95 and 734 BRU-WAW-BRU
User currently offlineLO231 From Belgium, joined Sep 2004, 2392 posts, RR: 22
Reply 14, posted (6 years 11 months 2 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 12778 times:



Quoting AFKLMLHLX (Reply 10):
But my question still lies, why can't all flights departing from Schengen airports, just treat all flight the sames while they are in the airport departing? As long as your in the country already, its fine.

Schengen, how easy to travel that may sound, is still not a country.. Sometimes there is an ID check just to see that you are allowed to go past security, it's a cross check of your ID and boarding pass, if they match.. Only passengers can go through security, so some airports check the ID there, BRU being one example....

Best regards,
LO231



Got both LO 788 frames already, next LO E95 and 734 BRU-WAW-BRU
User currently offlineAFKLMLHLX From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (6 years 11 months 2 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 12777 times:

I guess I am speaking from my only connecting experience in Europe being in ZRH, and I guess there they don't really care about sending you through passport control upon arrival because they know wherever you connect to you'll have to go through it at your final destination point anyways. I am just wondering, when connecting in AMS, do they route you through the same passport control/customs as regual passangers, or do they route you so you will not have to reclaim your baggage and re check in? This might depend on what airline your flying but of what I know about the layout of AMS, I know it is a very efficient connecting airport, no weird procedures or anything, and KLM runs such an efficient hub there, it should be pretty easy. KLM really takes advantage of the Schengen.

User currently offlineAFKLMLHLX From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (6 years 11 months 2 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 12743 times:



Quoting LO231 (Reply 14):

Why can't they check that at the gate when they board each passanger? Atleast then, you could go through the whole airport without being confined to one little area.


User currently offlineLO231 From Belgium, joined Sep 2004, 2392 posts, RR: 22
Reply 17, posted (6 years 11 months 2 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 12743 times:



Quoting AFKLMLHLX (Reply 15):
I am just wondering, when connecting in AMS, do they route you through the same passport control/customs as regual passangers, or do they route you so you will not have to reclaim your baggage and re check in?

If you're coming from the US and connecting to Schengen country, you will go through passport control in AMS, but you will get your luggage at your destination.. It is at the destination that the customs officers might pull you for a RANDOM check if they feel like it, seeing that you should choose "non-EU" arrivals exit from the luggage claim area. Remember in Europe, non-passengers don't have access to luggage reclaim like in the US..

Regards,
LO231



Got both LO 788 frames already, next LO E95 and 734 BRU-WAW-BRU
User currently offlineLO231 From Belgium, joined Sep 2004, 2392 posts, RR: 22
Reply 18, posted (6 years 11 months 2 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 12721 times:



Quoting AFKLMLHLX (Reply 16):
Why can't they check that at the gate when they board each passanger? Atleast then, you could go through the whole airport without being confined to one little area.

The gates here are different than the ones in AMS, where they have security check at every gate... Security check is common for all passengers before they reach the gate, so that the gates are open... They check your ID at the gate too, but it's more to check if it matches your boarding pass again...

And the ID check before entering the airside is again for the same reason, non-passengers are not allowed beyond this point..



Got both LO 788 frames already, next LO E95 and 734 BRU-WAW-BRU
User currently offlineAFKLMLHLX From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 19, posted (6 years 11 months 2 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 12710 times:

Wait, so basically in AMS, there is no security for all passangers at the begining of the concourses after the check in area? That makes no sense. I mean, so that means theres like a glass wall surrounding all gates like in VIE? of all the pictures I have looked at of the AMS gate area, I have never noticed that, Maybe it was in a Schengen concourse. But why not just have one central or several central security areas? I mean each gate has to already be staffed by airline personel so why not just have them check your ID/boarding pass upon boarding? When you say security at each gate do you mean like a litteral x-ray machine at EVERY gate?

User currently offlineDLPhoenix From United States of America, joined Aug 2007, 420 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (6 years 11 months 2 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 11994 times:



Quoting AFKLMLHLX (Reply 7):
I always wonder why Europe requires passangers to go through passport control prior to departure when flying from Schengen or UK/Ireland to a non Schengen destination. I mean as long as one goes through security, then isnt that all that matters?

The US is the only country I have been to that does not have passport control for international departing passangers (This is even more obvious when driving out of the country). Everywhere else you need to go through a gevernment controled checkpoint.

Quoting AFKLMLHLX (Thread starter):
FRA is also another one I do not get. Although, I do like how it definately has branding to it with the LH signs on all of the gates in their terminal and how it really does have a connecting feel I mean it is not a very O&D airport. But, I don't like how you have to go through security so many times (as I've heard)! I mean, how can you have an efficient hub when there are unneeded security checks.

FRA is much better than CDG or LHR. I had several international connections at FRA and never had to go through security. Much diiferent stoty at LHR if you have to switch terminals with CDG being the worst.

In the US the TSA requires that passangers arriving from an international flight will go through security before entering the "sterile zone".


User currently offlineAAR90 From United States of America, joined Jan 2000, 3494 posts, RR: 46
Reply 21, posted (6 years 11 months 2 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 11565 times:



Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 2):
The city is ready to build it if they are ready to pay. In that way, it's certainly their fault.

A little history: The City of Chicago made the decision to build T5. The City of Chicago mandated ALL airlines pay for building T5. The City of Chicago mandated ALL international arrivals utilize T5. The City of Chicago mandated only international departures from T5. The City of Chicago mandated UA & AA utilize ALL of their gates PRIOR to allowing a UA or AA international departure from T5. And you want to blame UA & AA for no FIS at their terminals? You want to blame UA & AA for towing (or taxiing) planes from T5 to their terminals for departures? IF (a big IF) the City of Chicago is willing to allow UA & AA to install FIS at their terminals, at what duplicate costs do UA & AA have to pay?

As someone previously mentioned, you have to separate airline facilities decisions from airport facilities decisions.



*NO CARRIER* -- A Naval Aviator's worst nightmare!
User currently offlineCOSPN From Northern Mariana Islands, joined Oct 2001, 1653 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (6 years 11 months 2 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 11455 times:

It Cost MONEY...on the airlines part CO has spent many millions to upgrade airport facilities EWR IAH and CLE and even GUM ...it is not Just up the the Airport HUBS come and go .. Unused Gates at STL, PIT, TPA (EA Terminal) ,DFW can attest to that...It takes lots of work to put something together like Continental's EWR's Global Gateway and even more to keep it going and expanding...

User currently offlineAnalog From United States of America, joined Jul 2006, 1900 posts, RR: 1
Reply 23, posted (6 years 11 months 2 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 11351 times:



Quoting CitrusCritter (Reply 11):
There is no part of the ATL airport that requires you to clear security if you're connecting flights. All terminals are past the security checkpoint.

Not true, if arriving internationally. You also have to clear security at ATL if you're arriving (not just connecting) from an international flight. Unless things have changed very recently, you have to clear security to LEAVE THE AIRPORT.

Somebody deserves a genius award for that one.


User currently offlinePanHAM From Germany, joined May 2005, 9746 posts, RR: 31
Reply 24, posted (6 years 11 months 2 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 11069 times:



Quoting AFKLMLHLX (Thread starter):
FRA is also another one I do not get. Although, I do like how it definately has branding to it with the LH signs on all of the gates in their terminal and how it really does have a connecting feel I mean it is not a very O&D airport. But, I don't like how you have to go through security so many times (as I've heard)! I mean, how can you have an efficient hub when there are unneeded security ch

In the responses to this question, ID checks and security checks are mixed up.

NON-Schengen - you go thoirough a security check and then through Passport control, If your destination is in the UK, USA or Israel, you go through a second security check. This second security check ius required by the destination countries. Before boarding, your airline may check whether your ID matches the name on the boarding pass. The airline is responsible for you and has to protect itself. Here again, he destination country might require this.


Within Schengen - there are NO passport controls. There is only one security check. On some destinations, the airline might check your ID/boarding pass. Usuall



Es saugt und blaest der Heinzelmann wo Mutti sonst nur blasen kann. Frueher war mehr Lametta.
25 Kappel : After check-in at AMS you go through customs, and only pax are allowed beyond this point. But that's just a passport check, no X-rays or anything. Se
26 FlyASAGuy2005 : I LOVE IAD. My first time flying there, we pulled up to a stand in the middle of the ramp and they say you can exit from the front or the rear to get
27 ManchesterMAN : Actually there is a general security check between check-in and the concourse. The reason security checks are carried out at the gates as well is bec
28 SK601 : That's gone since a year of 2. Only if you are travelling within Schengen there is a general security check after check in and not at the gate.
29 Doona : No it doesn't. AFAIK, Schengen and non-schengen flights are usually separated, and depart from different terminals or concourses, or different areas
30 BrianDromey : Firstly some posts use "customs" and "security" interchangeably. This cant really be done, they are two separate functions. No we dont.... at check-in
31 Post contains images Konstantinkoll : Well, this is a topic with loads of things to say... First, passport control in Europe. I can actually remember the time when there was no Schengen tr
32 AFKLMLHLX : One, I have never connected from an international flight in the USA because I live in the New York area, so I get mostly direct international flights,
33 AFKLMLHLX : But, if at hub airport, isn't a major part of a good hub consolidating operations? I mean, that means that SAS flights are scattered about within the
34 Petertenthije : When you arrive from EWR at AMS you will arrive in the non-schenger area of the terminal. If you then want to connect to your FRA flight you will hav
35 Stylo777 : the situation in FRA changed very recently which made the whole security very efficient and fast! Except the flights to UK and TLV people in both term
36 Cjpark : Non passengers do not have access to baggage claim areas for international arrivals in the US. International Arrivals must clear immigration then pic
37 HOOB747 : Wow, I think you scanned my brain and replicated my thoughts perfectly! Scary! This is exactly why I love ORD, the excitement and bustle of a big, in
38 Post contains images Gecmd11 : No that is still in use, This frustrates me to no end......as a local ATL pax..having go thought security to leave the airport is insane...i know the
39 Pizzaandplanes : How do you get through security with a used boarding pass then?
40 Steeler83 : As someone stated above, someone definitely deserves the genius award for that. Why does ATL do that?
41 JRadier : You mean international-domestic? This is due to the way the system is set up. In the US you clear immigration and customs at the point of entry, in E
42 Manu : I just traveled YYZ-FRA-KWI and had only the airline check my documentation before boarding the FRA-KWI leg. As well, I had no extra security check l
43 Konstantinkoll : Isn't that also the way it's handled in FRA now with flights to the US ? I remember having to walk lots of stairs. That would actually allow a plane
44 Star_world : It's crazy - have done it quite a few times. They do it this way because all Intl flights arrive in the concourse furthest from the main terminal, an
45 Us330 : Denver's actually not much of a hassle to connect in. It has a similar layout to Atlanta, in that there is one central terminal with local baggage cl
46 PanHAM : That's exactly it. The main level is Schengen and the upper level is non Schengen. Assume you arrive from the UK, the doors to the main level A are l
47 Konstantinkoll : Although a bit off-topic, I just loved that underground train! I've made a 48h stop over in DEN (arriving with LH, departing with WN), and taking tha
48 Cubsrule : The city is willing to give AA and UA dedicated FIS for them and partners in (new) Terminal 2. UA and AA haven't paid yet, but the plans have been th
49 Post contains images DLPhoenix : The Atlanta airport was designed and built well before September 11, 2001. At that time you did not have to be a passenger to get to the gate. The ai
50 Cubsrule : You're missing the point. I can put my gun in my checked bag. In order to clear customs, I must have my checked bag with me. Thus, before I return to
51 DLPhoenix : Good point, Guests I'll never make a good terrorist (nor a good counter terrorist expert either). DLP
52 PanHAM : wrong, it'snot a good point since the checked bags are x-rayed at the overseas origin airport. . All the facilities in Frankfurt were build before 9/
53 Cubsrule : Yes, and I can check my gun/knife/liquid over 100 mL overseas. What is your point?
54 DLPhoenix : The point is valid since US passengers have provisions for carrying firearms in checked luggage. As for other weapons- you can carry swords in our ch
55 DLPhoenix : 1) Isolating several train cars is a good idea. 2) With all the hassle of the security - my personal experience (>50x through both) is hat Atlanta is
56 PanHAM : sorry , I forgot that you guys have a consitutional right to own weapons of mass destruction. You need a damn good reason to have weapons in your lug
57 Cubsrule : Moot point... y'all have a right to have and to check liquid containers over 100mL, just like we do. Those are (apparently) a security problem.
58 AAR90 : What would be the advantage for UA/AA to pay a second time for a different "remote" (not connected to their terminal 1 & 3) location? If the city wou
59 Cubsrule : Terminal 2 is not and would not be remote from Terminals 1 and 3. It's all one facility connected both landside and airside, and is in the plans for
60 Post contains images Markam : First of all, although I have been a regular reader for a long time, this is my first post at A.net, so hello to everyone. Then, AFKLMLHLX, the U.S. a
61 Post contains images Leskova : LX departs from piers B and E in ZRH - not just B; and B is far from "entirely them". It's a lot of LX, true, but at least LH, OS and SK also depart
62 Konstantinkoll : AFAIK biometric U.S. visit exit procedures have been abandoned in May 2007. Have they?
63 AFKLMLHLX : You know what was weird, when I was flying from CDG-JFK, I did not go through passport control. I departed out of terminal E and CDG 2E is a mess beca
64 RIXrat : I can't pull your exact wording that would make it a hit here on A.net, but, overall, I would say, a very good post.
65 Viscount724 : I much prefer the security check at the gates in AMS rather than at a centralized checkpoint. It permits connecting passengers to go directly to the
66 AAR90 : It is "remote" in that pax would have to walk considerable distance to get to UA/AA terminals. The transit time involved is about the same as from T-
67 Markam : I think so, or at least I hasn't seen the stations at Newark and other places anymore, but I am not sure that all the trial programs have been termin
68 Post contains links and images LN-KGL : Here are the rules followed at my local airport - Oslo Airport, Gardermoen/Norway. Now you can pick from the list below what you have to do. To help y
69 PanHAM : ...and we all know that this is BS. Coming back to the weapons. If you have the legal right to carry weapons, fine. You have to show proof on exit he
70 Post contains images Markam : If you read above, I mention that that is the usual case. However, in some cases there are more security controls (even apart from the U.S., etc. one
71 Jfidler : I had this same issue when flying from FRA last week -- two security checks. Note I was flying from EU Schengen area (Germany) to EU non-Schengen (Est
72 Cubsrule : Well, let's put guns aside... the disparity in laws makes them a bit of a complicated case. How about a pocketknife. I can check that in Germany, and
73 Viscount724 : I had a similar situation a couple of months ago when I was departing from FRA (not connecting) on an LX flight to ZRH. It's the only time I have eve
74 AAR90 : Location - location - location. You clear customs and reclear TSA security then.... trudge your way to another terminal to get to your connecting fli
75 AznMadSci : This is not the case for CO flights at either EWR and IAH. Take for instance CO 51 which does FRA-EWR-IAH-EZE. Though CO helped build C3 at EWR that
76 Airportplan : 1. T5 designed in the pre alliance era (late 1980s) to replace the temporary international terminal 4. At that time ORD international operations were
77 Post contains images Leskova : I know that some people in GVA would probably like for this to be the case, but flights from ZRH to Geneva, Berne, Lugano, Basle and others are still
78 ADent : Reasons UA would want a FIS in T2 at ORD 1) UA would be principal user and could 'control' it - hopefully for a better experience for its customers 2)
79 AznMadSci : I believe the only connection is the train on the upper deck that connects T5 to the other terminals, and this is a non-sterile connection. Why did O
80 AirportPlan : ORD Terminal 4 was a temporary FIS facility that replaced the FIS that was located in the original Terminal 1. This facility was located in converted
81 AFKLMLHLX : This EXACTLY proves my point about how all flights in America are treated equally on departure. I have been on the return of that flight IAH-EWR and
82 Post contains links LH423 : As others have said, your bag tag won't have have the green lining that will be quickly detected if you try and exit through the wrong lane. Yes, but
83 Viscount724 : Pier D at AMS is also non-Schengen.
84 Cubsrule : I don't buy that point, to be honest. You have to reclear security regardless, so the only inconvenience created is the train ride, and in the grand
85 AznMadSci : I sorta understand your idea, I think. For many hubs such as IAH, EWR, DTW, DFW, and to an extent LAX, there is an ease to connect INT-DOM if you are
86 AAR90 : Airportplan, thank you for proving my point.... UA/AA don't have incentive to pay twice for FIS facilities unless they are dedicated to UA/AA (and the
87 Cubsrule : Depending on how gate leases are structured, it would probably be a pay more now to pay less later deal, as UA/AA would no doubt be able to secure 't
88 AirportPlan : The City of Chicago was and is willing to build these facilities for AA and UA today. The City wants these facilities more than AA and UA do. AA and
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