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Swiss RJ100's - New Seats  
User currently offlinePurpleBox From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2005, 325 posts, RR: 0
Posted (6 years 8 months 1 week 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 3480 times:

I flew BSL-LCY yesterday on HB-IXN and it had nice new grey Reccaro seats - very similar to the ones now fitted in the Swiss A32x aircraft.

The difference was amazing - the five abreast layout is unchanged but gone is the horrible legroom in Y!

PurpleBox.


Next Flights:STH-ATH-STN (A3), BHX-INV-BHX(BE), LCY-FRA-BOG(LH), EZE-FRA-LHR(LH)
25 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineLXA340 From Switzerland, joined Nov 2006, 2122 posts, RR: 3
Reply 1, posted (6 years 8 months 1 week 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 3324 times:



Quoting PurpleBox (Thread starter):
I flew BSL-LCY yesterday on HB-IXN and it had nice new grey Reccaro seats - very similar to the ones now fitted in the Swiss A32x aircraft.

The whole Avro Fleet is being equiped with new Recaro seats whose seats are identical to the ones found in the Airbus fleet. By the end of february the refurbishment of the entire Avro fleet should be completed


User currently offlineZRH From Switzerland, joined Nov 1999, 5568 posts, RR: 35
Reply 2, posted (6 years 8 months 1 week 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 3194 times:

Quoting PurpleBox (Thread starter):
The difference was amazing - the five abreast layout is unchanged but gone is the horrible legroom in Y!

I also like the new seats. But I do not agree that the legroom with the old seats was too bad. Have you ever flown a LH Cityline AVRO with 6 abreast then you know what poor room (legroom and width is). When you really want to experience very poor legroom then fly an IB A320 family aircraft (the worst I ever suffered in Europe).

[Edited 2008-01-14 16:43:07]

User currently offlinePurpleBox From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2005, 325 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (6 years 8 months 1 week 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 3049 times:



Quoting ZRH (Reply 2):
Have you ever flown a LH Cityline AVRO with 6 abreast then you know what poor room (legroom and width is).

Yes - many, many times.

The difference between legroom in the Swiss RJ100 with the new seats and the previous seats is a great improvement leading to a much improved product.

PurpleBox.



Next Flights:STH-ATH-STN (A3), BHX-INV-BHX(BE), LCY-FRA-BOG(LH), EZE-FRA-LHR(LH)
User currently offlineSlz396 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (6 years 8 months 1 week 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 3038 times:

Don't know if they are from the same manufacturer as at LX, but the largest AVRO operator in the world, Brussels Airlines (SN), is also renewing the seats onboard their planes: still 5 abreast in blue leder, but no longer glossy. The seat backs are much thinner, so they offer more legroom too...

[Edited 2008-01-15 04:35:57]

User currently offlineHBDAN From Switzerland, joined Jan 2006, 661 posts, RR: 4
Reply 5, posted (6 years 8 months 1 week 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 3013 times:



Quoting Slz396 (Reply 4):
The seat backs are much thinner

The deal is about reducing aircraft weight and therefore decrease fuel consumtion. If this brings also more pax comfort... well, couldn't be better!

HBDAN



Next flight: hopefully soon...
User currently offlineSlz396 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (6 years 8 months 1 week 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 3007 times:



Quoting HBDAN (Reply 5):
The deal is about reducing aircraft weight and therefore decrease fuel consumtion. If this brings also more pax comfort... well, couldn't be better!

Weight reduction is said to be around 250kg per plane on another forum, which isn't bad indeed, especially as you don't feel the difference AND you win about half an inch of legroom per row.


User currently offlineEMB170 From United States of America, joined Nov 2007, 648 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (6 years 8 months 1 week 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 3000 times:

Have flown the old LX RJ100s in Y- even with 5 abreast the legroom was indeed terrible (though the lunch LX served on ZRH-BUD was fantastic). I even wrote in about how cramped the airplane was- in my opinion, it would have been difficult to evacuate in an emergency!

Have not flown LH's RJ85s in 6 abreast- when did that happen? I did fly on one when the whole plane was J class and 5 abreast...that was one of my favorite airplane rides of all time! 3 course meal...on real china...on a 3 hour HEL-MUC flight...on a regional aircraft!!!



Can passenger jets fly as fast as my feet do? Let's find out...
User currently offlineOA260 From Ireland, joined Nov 2006, 27003 posts, RR: 57
Reply 8, posted (6 years 8 months 1 week 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 3000 times:

I have to say I didnt find the old seats too bad at all. I do like the new ones though.

1st Jan 2008/RJ100 LX J Class BRU/ Video Photos (by OA260 Jan 2 2008 in Trip Reports)


User currently offlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 25346 posts, RR: 22
Reply 9, posted (6 years 8 months 1 week 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 2829 times:



Quoting PurpleBox (Reply 3):
Quoting ZRH (Reply 2):
Have you ever flown a LH Cityline AVRO with 6 abreast then you know what poor room (legroom and width is).

Yes - many, many times.

The difference between legroom in the Swiss RJ100 with the new seats and the previous seats is a great improvement leading to a much improved product.



Quoting EMB170 (Reply 7):
Have flown the old LX RJ100s in Y- even with 5 abreast the legroom was indeed terrible (though the lunch LX served on ZRH-BUD was fantastic). I even wrote in about how cramped the airplane was- in my opinion, it would have been difficult to evacuate in an emergency!

Personally, I liked the old LX RJ100 seats better than the new ones They had much better padding. The new seats are fully acceptable and do improve the effective legroom especially in the last few rows. Those who are complaining about the legroom with the old seats must have been sitting in the rear of the cabin. There was no probllem in the forward half of the cabin which had an additional inch or so of pitch in the rows that could be used as business class.

In any case, LX's RJ100s have always been among the most comfortable aircraft in Europe.

Quoting EMB170 (Reply 7):
Have not flown LH's RJ85s in 6 abreast- when did that happen?

LH's RJ85s have been 6 abreast as long as I can remember. They are very cramped and uncomfortable and I do my best to avoid flying on them.


User currently offlineVfw614 From Germany, joined Dec 2001, 4003 posts, RR: 5
Reply 10, posted (6 years 8 months 1 week 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 2663 times:



Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 9):

LH's RJ85s have been 6 abreast as long as I can remember.

No, they moved from 80 seats 5-abreast to 93 seats 6-abreast a couple of years ago. I do not remember exactly, but in addition to squeeze some more money out of the planes, it might have had something to do with scope clauses as well. Indeed even when the first 80 seat RJs arrived in the mid-1990s, there were problems to have them operated by Cityline because of scope clauses in place. Now that they are 6 abreast, I try to avoid them like the pest.


User currently offlineLHBSL From Switzerland, joined Mar 2007, 89 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (6 years 8 months 1 week 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 2608 times:



Quoting Vfw614 (Reply 10):
I do not remember exactly

I think it was four years ago.
Even Eurowings operated in a 5 abreast configuration till 2005/06. Since then, they installed the 6 abreast as well...  Sad

Quoting Vfw614 (Reply 10):
Now that they are 6 abreast, I try to avoid them like the pest.

You have to fly Business-Class  Wink

Cheers
Chris


User currently offlineColumba From Germany, joined Dec 2004, 7063 posts, RR: 4
Reply 12, posted (6 years 8 months 1 week 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 2592 times:

Does that mean that the Avros will not be replaced soon. I expected some of the E190 of the LH order to go to LX.


It will forever be a McDonnell Douglas MD 80 , Boeing MD 80 sounds so wrong
User currently offlineLXA340 From Switzerland, joined Nov 2006, 2122 posts, RR: 3
Reply 13, posted (6 years 8 months 1 week 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 2586 times:



Quoting Columba (Reply 12):
Does that mean that the Avros will not be replaced soon. I expected some of the E190 of the LH order to go to LX.

Probably not. LX will receive evnetually the E170/190 but it will mostlikely be in a seperate order and I doubt we will see the first Embraer before 2010 in LX livery.


User currently offlineZRH From Switzerland, joined Nov 1999, 5568 posts, RR: 35
Reply 14, posted (6 years 8 months 1 week 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 2539 times:



Quoting Vfw614 (Reply 10):
I try to avoid them like the pest.

Me too. I only had one short flight between ZRH and MUC but I found the 6 abreast really horrible. These aircrafts are simply not made for 6 abreast.

Quoting Columba (Reply 12):
I expected some of the E190 of the LH order to go to LX.



Quoting LXA340 (Reply 13):
Probably not. LX will receive evnetually the E170/190 but it will mostlikely be in a seperate order and I doubt we will see the first Embraer before 2010 in LX livery.

I am not sure when you consider what Sandro told us (in the Swiss Aviation Thread) what he heard from his instructor at Swiss Aviation School.


User currently offlineECONOMICS From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (6 years 8 months 1 week 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 2536 times:



Quoting PurpleBox (Thread starter):
flew BSL-LCY yesterday on HB-IXN and it had nice new grey Reccaro seats - very similar to the ones now fitted in the Swiss A32x aircraft.

The difference was amazing - the five abreast layout is unchanged but gone is the horrible legroom in Y!

any pics ?


User currently offlineColumba From Germany, joined Dec 2004, 7063 posts, RR: 4
Reply 16, posted (6 years 8 months 1 week 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 2466 times:



Quoting ZRH (Reply 14):
I am not sure when you consider what Sandro told us (in the Swiss Aviation Thread) what he heard from his instructor at Swiss Aviation School.

Since I have not read this thread and you please give a short summary of what has been said.
Thanks !!



It will forever be a McDonnell Douglas MD 80 , Boeing MD 80 sounds so wrong
User currently offlineZRH From Switzerland, joined Nov 1999, 5568 posts, RR: 35
Reply 17, posted (6 years 8 months 1 week 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 2371 times:



Quoting Columba (Reply 16):
Since I have not read this thread and you please give a short summary of what has been said.
Thanks !!

Sandro (SandroZRH) has just started Swiss Aviation School to become a pilot. He has a contract for the airbus fleet. But at the first day the instructor told them that in 2009 when they finish the school they probably have to begin on the EMB 179/190 or the AVRO if there will be a pilot shortage there, with an option to change within three years to the airbus fleet. Sandro said that is wasn't slip of the tongue by the instructor because he mentioned the EMB several times.


User currently offlineLXA340 From Switzerland, joined Nov 2006, 2122 posts, RR: 3
Reply 18, posted (6 years 8 months 1 week 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 2324 times:



Quoting ZRH (Reply 14):

I am not sure when you consider what Sandro told us (in the Swiss Aviation Thread) what he heard from his instructor at Swiss Aviation School.

Oh right true. Well the Avro's are not that old yeat and they can surely fly without problem another 5 years or so minimum. So it would make sense to introduce the Embraers in 1 or 2 years for additional capacity which is needed and then 2 -3 years later begin to introduce more Embraers which will be used to replace the Avros.


User currently offlineHECA From Netherlands, joined Apr 2007, 232 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (6 years 8 months 1 week 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 2230 times:
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Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 9):
Personally, I liked the old LX RJ100 seats better than the new ones They had much better padding. The new seats are fully acceptable and do improve the effective legroom especially in the last few rows. Those who are complaining about the legroom with the old seats must have been sitting in the rear of the cabin. There was no problem in the forward half of the cabin which had an additional inch or so of pitch in the rows that could be used as business class.

I agree completely, have flown many AMS-ZRH flights with the RJ100 and always found the old seats very comfortable and offering increase legroom compared to the Airbus fleet. I also was seated in the forward half of the cabin as I do not like to sit in the rear end.... But the new seats are very slick!


User currently offlineSA7700 From South Africa, joined Dec 2003, 3431 posts, RR: 25
Reply 20, posted (6 years 8 months 1 week 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 2182 times:
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Quoting LHBSL (Reply 11):
You have to fly Business-Class

BTW, what is the business class layout for the LX Avros? 1-1-1?



When you are doing stuff that nobody has done before, there is no manual – Kevin McCloud (Grand Designs)
User currently offlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 25346 posts, RR: 22
Reply 21, posted (6 years 8 months 1 week 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 2151 times:



Quoting SA7700 (Reply 20):
Quoting LHBSL (Reply 11):
You have to fly Business-Class

BTW, what is the business class layout for the LX Avros? 1-1-1?

It's the same as economy class. They sell all 5 seats across on the Avros unlike the A319/320/321 where the middle seats are left empty (except on the domestic GVA-ZRH-GVA sectors). When loads are lighter I think LX tries to allocate enough rows to business class on the Avros to minimize the need to use the middle seats in the 3-across side.


User currently offlineSA7700 From South Africa, joined Dec 2003, 3431 posts, RR: 25
Reply 22, posted (6 years 8 months 1 week 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 2075 times:
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HEAD MODERATOR



Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 21):
It's the same as economy class. They sell all 5 seats across on the Avros unlike the A319/320/321 where the middle seats are left empty (except on the domestic GVA-ZRH-GVA sectors). When loads are lighter I think LX tries to allocate enough rows to business class on the Avros to minimize the need to use the middle seats in the 3-across side.

Why then do they sell business class tickets on routes like ZRH-LCY? For the price difference in fares in economy and business, surely there should be a clear product differentiation?



When you are doing stuff that nobody has done before, there is no manual – Kevin McCloud (Grand Designs)
User currently offlineColumba From Germany, joined Dec 2004, 7063 posts, RR: 4
Reply 23, posted (6 years 8 months 1 week 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 2036 times:



Quoting ZRH (Reply 17):
........

Thanks a lot !!!



It will forever be a McDonnell Douglas MD 80 , Boeing MD 80 sounds so wrong
User currently offlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 25346 posts, RR: 22
Reply 24, posted (6 years 8 months 1 week 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 1944 times:



Quoting SA7700 (Reply 22):
Why then do they sell business class tickets on routes like ZRH-LCY? For the price difference in fares in economy and business, surely there should be a clear product differentiation?

It's no different than on many intra-Europe carriers. You get much improved inflight service on LX Avros in business class with a light meal or snack on all except very short flights, a better choice of drinks, higher quality wines etc. You also get access to airport lounges and twice the economy class hand-baggage allowance (2 pieces instead of 1)..

Many people purchase business class fares within Europe because they permit more flexibility with lower or no fees for changes, and often no penalty for cancellations and refunds. You also get far more frequent flyer miles -- 2000 minimum in the LX/LH Miles & More program on every flight in Europe (1500 on domestic flights), vs. as few as 125 miles for the lowest Y class fares.


User currently offlineSA7700 From South Africa, joined Dec 2003, 3431 posts, RR: 25
Reply 25, posted (6 years 8 months 1 week 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 1902 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
HEAD MODERATOR



Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 24):
You get much improved inflight service on LX Avros in business class with a light meal or snack on all except very short flights, a better choice of drinks, higher quality wines etc. You also get access to airport lounges and twice the economy class hand-baggage allowance (2 pieces instead of 1)..

Thanks for the explanation Viscount.


Rgds

SA7700



When you are doing stuff that nobody has done before, there is no manual – Kevin McCloud (Grand Designs)
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