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SkyTeam Prospective Members In India And Brazil  
User currently offlineMarkam From United States of America, joined Jan 2008, 441 posts, RR: 1
Posted (6 years 7 months 2 weeks 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 4252 times:

In the last SkyTeam NewsFlash for January 2008 ( http://www.skyteam.com/EN/aboutSkyteam/pressCenter/pr100108.jsp ) its Chairman, Leo van Wijk, mentions that ST is looking for options to strengthen its network in South East Asia, Brazil and India, and that they are currently in discussions with prospective new members in both of these last two countries. For Asia rumors are that CI will be announced soon as a new member (there is another post about that), but any guesses on Brazil and India? AI is joining Star Alliance, so maybe 9W? Although they have been linked to AA lately by some, they have ties with AF, KL and NW as well, and I don't see IT mature enough to join an alliance yet. In Brazil my bet would be JJ, again they have been rumored to be a prospective *A member, but they have close ties with AF, and G3 would be in principle a more natural fit for *A, since RG was already a member before the bankruptcy.

My  twocents  , any other ideas?

22 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineAbrelosojos From Venezuela, joined May 2005, 5088 posts, RR: 55
Reply 1, posted (6 years 7 months 2 weeks 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 4237 times:



Quoting Markam (Thread starter):
In the last SkyTeam NewsFlash for January 2008 ( http://www.skyteam.com/EN/aboutSkyteam/pressCenter/pr100108.jsp ) its Chairman, Leo van Wijk, mentions that ST is looking for options to strengthen its network in South East Asia, Brazil and India, and that they are currently in discussions with prospective new members in both of these last two countries. For Asia rumors are that CI will be announced soon as a new member (there is another post about that), but any guesses on Brazil and India? AI is joining Star Alliance, so maybe 9W? Although they have been linked to AA lately by some, they have ties with AF, KL and NW as well, and I don't see IT mature enough to join an alliance yet. In Brazil my bet would be JJ, again they have been rumored to be a prospective *A member, but they have close ties with AF, and G3 would be in principle a more natural fit for *A, since RG was already a member before the bankruptcy.

My , any other ideas?

= G3 cannot join Star unless it significantly alters its business model. I don't get your analysis of IT not being "mature enough". It is one of the world's best airlines and if it joins Sky it will automatically become its best service-oriented member. 9W is being courted hard - but Mr. Goyal is a very smart man and I think they will follow EK lead and see how yields develop over the next year on their North America routes.

Cheers,
A.



Live, and let live.
User currently offlineMarkam From United States of America, joined Jan 2008, 441 posts, RR: 1
Reply 2, posted (6 years 7 months 2 weeks 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 4218 times:



Quoting Abrelosojos (Reply 1):
I don't get your analysis of IT not being "mature enough"

Well, I was thinking mainly in terms of size and age, since IT is roughly half the size of CI or 9W and started operations just in 2005, but you are right, in terms of quality they are a more than suitable match.

Regards,

Markam


User currently offlineAAEXP From Brazil, joined Jul 2005, 424 posts, RR: 1
Reply 3, posted (6 years 7 months 2 weeks 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 4087 times:

JJ will join an alliance in 2008 according to its president. However, at present it is anyones guess which alliance they will join.

User currently offlineHardiwv From Brazil, joined Oct 2004, 8780 posts, RR: 50
Reply 4, posted (6 years 7 months 2 weeks 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 4068 times:



Quoting AAEXP (Reply 3):
JJ will join an alliance in 2008 according to its president. However, at present it is anyones guess which alliance they will join.

All indications are that JJ will joing StarAlliance, which is corroborated by the fact that JJ signed a comprehensive agreement with UA, LH and TP. It is also expected JJ agreement with AF will soon be dropped.

Rgs,


User currently offlineAbrelosojos From Venezuela, joined May 2005, 5088 posts, RR: 55
Reply 5, posted (6 years 7 months 2 weeks 4 days ago) and read 3896 times:



Quoting Hardiwv (Reply 4):
All indications are that JJ will joing StarAlliance, which is corroborated by the fact that JJ signed a comprehensive agreement with UA, LH and TP. It is also expected JJ agreement with AF will soon be dropped.

= Yes. Strong indications its going to be Star. God, please please please make it happen. JJ is my favorite service oriented airline in LA, and this would be great.

Cheers,
A.



Live, and let live.
User currently offlineSkyTeamTriStar From United States of America, joined Dec 2007, 390 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (6 years 7 months 2 weeks 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 3848 times:

Who's G3? It doesn't come up when I mouse over it.

User currently offlineJpyvr From Canada, joined Jan 2000, 125 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (6 years 7 months 2 weeks 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 3814 times:



Quoting SkyTeamTriStar (Reply 6):
Who's G3? It doesn't come up when I mouse over it.

G3 = Gol


User currently onlineDLPMMM From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 3591 posts, RR: 10
Reply 8, posted (6 years 7 months 2 weeks 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 3814 times:



Quoting SkyTeamTriStar (Reply 6):
Who's G3? It doesn't come up when I mouse over it.

Gol, who now also owns Varig (RG)


User currently offlineSkyTeamTriStar From United States of America, joined Dec 2007, 390 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (6 years 7 months 2 weeks 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 3797 times:



Quoting DLPMMM (Reply 8):

much thanks


User currently offlineMarkam From United States of America, joined Jan 2008, 441 posts, RR: 1
Reply 10, posted (6 years 7 months 2 weeks 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 3676 times:



Quoting Hardiwv (Reply 4):
All indications are that JJ will joing StarAlliance, which is corroborated by the fact that JJ signed a comprehensive agreement with UA, LH and TP. It is also expected JJ agreement with AF will soon be dropped.

So, would you say SkyTeam (if so, probably via AirFrance-KLM) are anyway trying to get JJ on their side even if it is leaning towards Star, or that Chairman van Wijk is talking about another carrier (G3?) in the article?


User currently offlineBrasuca From Brazil, joined Mar 2004, 717 posts, RR: 11
Reply 11, posted (6 years 7 months 2 weeks 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 3541 times:

It's 100% certain that TAM will be a full member of Star Alliance - there is absolutely no doubt about it. It will be a great addition for the alliance. The airline is undergoing some internal changes this year, such as: livery change, new marketing strategy, FF Programme adjustment, business class revamp, international website - all of which confirmed!
As aforementioned, AF-KL partenership with TAM is expected to end this year too.

On the other hand, VARIG-GOL is still awaiting for the government decision upon VARIG's acquisition to put into effect their parterships (DL, CO, AF-KL, AM or MX, UX and AZ). VARIG has 14 767 confirmed for their fleet this year, with contract signed for their interior revamp in Greensboro in 2008. In the next days VARIG-GOL will announce an order of 787 and some 777s are expected to join the fleet too (the latter still a rumour).

A sidenote opinion about AV: With confirmation of CM in SkyTeam, AV can end up their partnership with KL soon; OceanAir Brazil will become AVIANCA BRASIL this year. So I see in the next years (4, 5...) will be a very interesting option for OneWorld. So we may see the following scenario in Latin America:

SkyTeam: VARIG-GOL, Mexicana, Copa
Star Alliance: TAM, TACA.
One World: LAN, AVIANCA.



Varig, Varig, Varig
User currently offline2travel2know From Panama, joined Apr 2005, 3580 posts, RR: 4
Reply 12, posted (6 years 7 months 2 weeks 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 3523 times:



Quoting Brasuca (Reply 11):
So we may see the following scenario in Latin America:

SkyTeam: VARIG-GOL, Mexicana, Copa
Star Alliance: TAM, TACA.
One World: LAN, AVIANCA.

Not that many airlines left around in Latinamerica/Caribbean: JM, BW, PU, Andes Argentina, AR, AeroSur, LB (!), Aires..
Of those I can only imagine JM, BW and PU trying to join an alliance.. AR very doubtful (at least nowadays).



I don't work for COPA Airlines!
User currently offlineMarkam From United States of America, joined Jan 2008, 441 posts, RR: 1
Reply 13, posted (6 years 7 months 2 weeks 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 3462 times:



Quoting Brasuca (Reply 11):

Thanks for the info, I didn´t know TAM negotiations with *A were so advanced. Also, good point, I had forgot about Avianca in Brazil. However, with their rebranding in Ecuador, Paraguay and Brazil it looks that they are going the LA and JJ way and have a pan-Latin American network in mind, wouldn't SkyTeam be also an attractive option? I know they compete in their domestic market with CM, but they would be the only member in South America.

Quoting 2travel2know (Reply 12):
Of those I can only imagine JM, BW and PU trying to join an alliance.. AR very doubtful (at least nowadays).

Agreed, although I think they have a lot of potential, for the time being the only way I see Aerolineas in an alliance is if the tourist agent market in Spain consolidates and Marsans (AR and A7) and Globalia (UX) merge somehow, with UX taking over A7 and AR being revamped with SkyTeam in mind. Wishful thinking, I guess.


User currently onlineEddieDude From Mexico, joined Nov 2003, 7571 posts, RR: 43
Reply 14, posted (6 years 7 months 2 weeks 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 3458 times:

Yes, I agree that RG may be the most likely candidate in Brazil for SkyTeam. With respect to India, I think SkyTeam should definitely enlist a member from India... whether it is 9W or IT, they need someone.

Quoting Brasuca (Reply 11):
SkyTeam: VARIG-GOL, Mexicana, Copa

The only way MX will join SkyTeam is if MX and AM merge and the Mexican antitrust watchdog will make sure that does not happen. With AM in SkyTeam (in fact, it is a founding member), MX would never join the alliance. Besides, MX is really close to one<world carriers AA, IB, CX, QF, etc.



Next flights: MEX-GRU (AM 77E), GRU-GIG (JJ A320), SDU-CGH (G3 73H), GRU-MEX (JJ A332).
User currently offlineBrasuca From Brazil, joined Mar 2004, 717 posts, RR: 11
Reply 15, posted (6 years 7 months 2 weeks 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 3427 times:



Quoting EddieDude (Reply 14):
The only way MX will join SkyTeam is if MX and AM merge and the Mexican antitrust watchdog will make sure that does not happen. With AM in SkyTeam (in fact, it is a founding member), MX would never join the alliance. Besides, MX is really close to oneAA, IB, CX, QF, etc.

Sorry, I really meant AeroMexico instead of Mexicana as a member of SkyTeam.
I don't see Mexicana as an interesting airline for any alliance at all, like Aerolíneas Argentinas. MX fits well just for parterships, to provide domestic connections in MEX.



Varig, Varig, Varig
User currently offlineLipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11434 posts, RR: 58
Reply 16, posted (6 years 7 months 2 weeks 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 3367 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
FORUM MODERATOR



Quoting Markam (Reply 13):
Thanks for the info, I didn´t know TAM negotiations with *A were so advanced

This is the new line of business after Mr. Barioni become TAM's CEO. TAM is focusing on quality, improving the level of service as well as resources available to customers. They are upgrading also IFE system, their service (in the near past they were trying to compete solely on cost with G3 and now decided to focus on service to be again a premium airline as it use to be in the past)

Quoting Brasuca (Reply 11):
On the other hand, VARIG-GOL is still awaiting for the government decision upon VARIG's acquisition to put into effect their parterships (DL, CO, AF-KL, AM or MX, UX and AZ). VARIG has 14 767 confirmed for their fleet this year, with contract signed for their interior revamp in Greensboro in 2008. In the next days VARIG-GOL will announce an order of 787 and some 777s are expected to join the fleet too (the latter still a rumour).

RG has also to provide some changes. They return for almost all Latin American markets (except ASU, VVI and LIM) without for example a business class (only SCL and MEX because they are using 767 provides such option). Also they are waiting for anti-trust authorities approval to mix G3/RG network as currently their connectivity is reduced.

Felipe



New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
User currently offlineAg92 From India, joined Jul 2006, 1317 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (6 years 7 months 2 weeks 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 3346 times:

I am really hoping someone from Skyteam in SE Asia or India joins. Especially airlines like Malaysian, Jet Airways or Kingfisher

User currently offlineNimish From India, joined Feb 2005, 3220 posts, RR: 9
Reply 18, posted (6 years 7 months 2 weeks 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 3287 times:

Why can't Skyteam first get their act together and induct MH into the fold instead of talking about India and Brazil? MH has to be a perfect fit for them as they only have KE and China Southern in the Asian markets and both of those are strong mainly in North Asia and mainland China.


Latest Trip Report - GoAir BLR-BOM-BLR
User currently offlineHardiwv From Brazil, joined Oct 2004, 8780 posts, RR: 50
Reply 19, posted (6 years 7 months 2 weeks 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 3260 times:



Quoting Brasuca (Reply 11):
A sidenote opinion about AV: With confirmation of CM in SkyTeam, AV can end up their partnership with KL soon; OceanAir Brazil will become AVIANCA BRASIL this year. So I see in the next years (4, 5...) will be a very interesting option for OneWorld. So we may see the following scenario in Latin America

Well, OceanAir, or in future Avianca Brasil, is still far from consolidated. It has been involved in some serious incidents over the past weeks in Brazil, seriously damaging their name in the coutry.

Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 16):
RG has also to provide some changes. They return for almost all Latin American markets (except ASU, VVI and LIM) without for example a business class (only SCL and MEX because they are using 767 provides such option). Also they are waiting for anti-trust authorities approval to mix G3/RG network as currently their connectivity is reduced.

The future approval to merge G3 and RG network will provide a major boost to RG's international operations, increasing loads and yields. It will also provide a platform for RG's continous increase flight operations in GRU. Finally, G3 is planning to launch a FF programme which would merge with RG's Smiles. In other words, it would be G3-RG very attractive option for an international alliance.

Rgs,


User currently offlineAAEXP From Brazil, joined Jul 2005, 424 posts, RR: 1
Reply 20, posted (6 years 7 months 2 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 3200 times:



Quoting Brasuca (Reply 11):
It's 100% certain that TAM will be a full member of Star Alliance - there is absolutely no doubt about it.

I guess that this means that you are 100% sure but that it's still not 100% sure for a fact?

I agree that it would be a logic bet, but is anyone really 100% sure at this stage?


User currently offlineQazar From Canada, joined May 2006, 327 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (6 years 7 months 2 weeks 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 3083 times:



Quoting Markam (Thread starter):
For Asia rumors are that CI will be announced soon as a new member (there is another post about that)

This is the first time I hear about that !!!! Seriously, China Airlines is talking to SkyTeam?

I actually always wondered how come Eva Air and China Airlines (basically Taiwanese-based airlines) were never involved in any discussion with any of the alliances... This is the first time that I hear about any of them being implicated in discussions... Anyone care to shed a little light on this?


User currently offlineAnonms From United States of America, joined Dec 2007, 619 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (6 years 7 months 2 weeks 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 3054 times:



Quoting Qazar (Reply 21):
This is the first time I hear about that !!!! Seriously, China Airlines is talking to SkyTeam?

I actually always wondered how come Eva Air and China Airlines (basically Taiwanese-based airlines) were never involved in any discussion with any of the alliances... This is the first time that I hear about any of them being implicated in discussions... Anyone care to shed a little light on this?

There's a whole thread (actually, there have been threads in the past, as well) about CI joining SkyTeam. CI and DL have been cozy for a few years now, and CI recently signed a codeshare agreement with NW. They already codeshare with KE and AZ and have FF cooperation with CZ. CI has been rumored to be in talks with SkyTeam for a long time, actually.

As for BR, they don't seem to be keen on joining any alliances. Their codeshare agreements are scattered among the 3 existing alliances.



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