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Cathay & Dragon To Add 27 New Flights To India  
User currently offlineCloudyapple From Hong Kong, joined Jul 2005, 2454 posts, RR: 10
Posted (6 years 7 months 1 week 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 10132 times:

Cathay Pacific and Dragonair today announced new services to India, taking full advantage of the recently signed bilateral between India and Hong Kong. All 27 new flight quotas allowed under the new bilateral will be utilized by the 2 carriers. We await a response from the Indian carriers.

The new flights are:
Cathay Pacific
6 new weekly flights to Mumbai (of which 3 continue to Dubai)
10 new weekly flights to Dehli
4 new weekly flights to Chennai

Dragonair
7 new weekly flights to Bangalore (A333)

http://www.cathaypacific.com/cpa/en_...9162c77110VgnVCM32000011d21c39____

Quote:
Cathay Pacific's services to Mumbai and Delhi will both become a daily operation from 29 February with the addition of three more flights a week to each city. The extra flights to Mumbai will continue on to Dubai.

From the beginning of the summer schedule on 30 March, the airline will add a further three flights a week to Mumbai, taking the number of flights to the city to 10 a week. At the same time, another daily flight will be added to Delhi, making a total of 14 flights a week. And on 1 June Cathay Pacific will add Chennai, India's fourth-largest metropolitan city, to its network with four flights a week.

http://www.dragonair.com/da/en_INTL/...67e7b77110VgnVCM32000011d21c39____

Quote:
The service to Bangalore will commence on May 1, 2008 with daily flights operated by A330-300 aircraft. The launch of the destination will open up new opportunities for people travelling between Hong Kong and the thriving southern region of India.


[Edited 2008-01-15 00:52:28]


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25 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineKaran69 From India, joined Oct 2004, 2887 posts, RR: 18
Reply 1, posted (6 years 7 months 1 week 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 10046 times:

Excellent news, thanks for sharing

Quoting Cloudyapple (Thread starter):
Cathay Pacific
6 new weekly flights to Mumbai (of which 3 continue to Dubai)
10 new weekly flights to Dehli
4 new weekly flights to Chennai

Any idea if some of the BOM flights will be non-stop or will they all originate from BKK as is the norm.

Quoting Cloudyapple (Thread starter):
Dragonair
7 new weekly flights to Bangalore (A333)

That is just excellent

Good planning by CX and Dragon Air, lets see the moves Indian Carries make

Karan


User currently offlineRonerone From Jordan, joined Aug 2004, 1653 posts, RR: 53
Reply 2, posted (6 years 7 months 1 week 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 10018 times:

Quoting Cloudyapple (Thread starter):
6 new weekly flights to Mumbai (of which 3 continue to Dubai)


Very interesting.

Upon conducting a quick check on CX's website, i discovered that the new flights have been loaded. However, they are only showing if and when you search for flights to and from DXB, and strangely not BOM yet. They are as follows:

Flight Dep Time Arr Time Stops Duration Equipment Day
CX685 HKG 14:15 DXB 21:00 BOM 10:45 773 Fri/Mon/Tue
CX684 DXB 22:10 HKG 11:25+1 BOM 09:15 773 Fri/Mon/Tue

Regards,
Roni

[Edited 2008-01-15 02:16:37]

[Edited 2008-01-15 02:17:17]


A Stop Away From One-Stop, Is Non-Stop : Airbus A340-500
User currently offlineKaitak From Ireland, joined Aug 1999, 12428 posts, RR: 37
Reply 3, posted (6 years 7 months 1 week 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 9854 times:

Why isn't HK Airlines or HK Express getting anything out of this? I know that they still only fly 737s, but aren't they going to be adding larger aircraft in due course.

Is the fact that there are only 2 airlines allowed to operate these new routes written into the bilateral? If so, why are CX and KA still counted as two airlines, since CX now owns KA?

(I can't remember which of these carriers is still owned by Hainan Airlines, but if it gets A330s or A340s, will it then be able to avail of these route opportunities?)


User currently offlineKaran69 From India, joined Oct 2004, 2887 posts, RR: 18
Reply 4, posted (6 years 7 months 1 week 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 9620 times:

BLR Daily

Dragonair (KA 153)
dep: 01:40 - Bangalore (BLR) terminal
arr: 10:10 - Hong Kong (HKG) terminal 1
equipment: Airbus Industrie A330

Dragonair (KA 152)
dep: 21:40 - Hong Kong (HKG) terminal 1
arr: 00:40 - Bangalore (BLR) terminal
equipment: Airbus Industrie A330

MAA - Tu, Th, Sa, Su

Cathay Pacific (CX 632)
dep: 01:10 - Chennai (Madras) (MAA) terminal
arr: 09:20 - Hong Kong (HKG) terminal 1
equipment: Airbus Industrie A330

Cathay Pacific (CX 631)
dep: 21:05 - Hong Kong (HKG) terminal 1
arr: 23:50 - Chennai (Madras) (MAA) terminal
equipment: Airbus Industrie A330

DEL - HKG goes double daily

CX 753 HKG - DEL 2255 0205
CX 752 DEL - HKG 0325 1125

CX 639 HKG - DEL 0915 1225
CX 638 DEL - HKG 1445 2250

BOM - HKG

CX 683 HKG - BOM 2110 0040 Tu Fr Sa
CX 682 BOM - HKG 0200 1015 We Sa Su

operated by A330-300


CX 685 HKG - BOM 0825 1155 Mo Tu Fr
CX 684 BOM - HKG 0645 1500 Tu We Sa

operated by a B773 ---Contd, to DXB Schedules as posted by Roni

CX751/750 remain as it is.

So a decent connectivity for MAA and BLR, very variable schedule for BOM with daily on BOM-DXB,

I think with DEL they are targetting China/SE Asia and Canada as well apart from LAX SFO.

Karan


User currently offlineAarbee From India, joined Aug 2005, 260 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (6 years 7 months 1 week 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 9539 times:

Does Cathay have any plans on hitting the secondary cities like SQ?

R



Love the AIXes
User currently offlineBehramjee From Canada, joined Aug 2003, 4769 posts, RR: 43
Reply 6, posted (6 years 7 months 1 week 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 9523 times:

the best thing is BOM-DXB-BOM is DAILY with a B 773A two class configuration.

why is dragon air used for BLR? I would have prefered KA for MAA rather than a premium route such as BLR! maybe acft issues.


User currently offlineLAXDESI From United States of America, joined May 2005, 5086 posts, RR: 48
Reply 7, posted (6 years 7 months 1 week 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 9523 times:

Does anyone know the no. of business seats for flights to BLR and MAA?

User currently offlineLAXDESI From United States of America, joined May 2005, 5086 posts, RR: 48
Reply 8, posted (6 years 7 months 1 week 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 9495 times:



Quoting Behramjee (Reply 6):
why is dragon air used for BLR? I would have prefered KA for MAA rather than a premium route such as BLR! maybe acft issues.

If aircraft issues, then CX should swap DEL for BLR with Dragon Air once they get more aircrafts. Is KA a wholly owned subsidiary of CX?


User currently offlineBehramjee From Canada, joined Aug 2003, 4769 posts, RR: 43
Reply 9, posted (6 years 7 months 1 week 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 9445 times:



Quoting Aarbee (Reply 5):
Does Cathay have any plans on hitting the secondary cities like SQ?

R

no it doesnt...it never had AMD / ATQ in its radar.


User currently offlineJlk From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 184 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (6 years 7 months 1 week 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 9407 times:



Quoting Karan69 (Reply 4):
MAA - Tu, Th, Sa, Su

Cathay Pacific (CX 632)
dep: 01:10 - Chennai (Madras) (MAA) terminal
arr: 09:20 - Hong Kong (HKG) terminal 1
equipment: Airbus Industrie A330

Cathay Pacific (CX 631)
dep: 21:05 - Hong Kong (HKG) terminal 1
arr: 23:50 - Chennai (Madras) (MAA) terminal
equipment: Airbus Industrie A330

I think this will push the MAA passengers from the night flight out of SFO to the afternoon one. 3 hrs transit onward to MAA and 5 hrs on the return should be much better compared to the SIN/KUL routes.


User currently offlineSshank From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 307 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (6 years 7 months 1 week 4 days ago) and read 9257 times:

SFO-HKG-MAA on CX will shave nearly 10 hours off the scenic route via SIN. I think CX is going to siphon off a fair bit of traffic away from SQ.

Quoting Jlk (Reply 10):


Quoting Karan69 (Reply 4):
MAA - Tu, Th, Sa, Su

Cathay Pacific (CX 632)
dep: 01:10 - Chennai (Madras) (MAA) terminal
arr: 09:20 - Hong Kong (HKG) terminal 1
equipment: Airbus Industrie A330

Cathay Pacific (CX 631)
dep: 21:05 - Hong Kong (HKG) terminal 1
arr: 23:50 - Chennai (Madras) (MAA) terminal
equipment: Airbus Industrie A330

I think this will push the MAA passengers from the night flight out of SFO to the afternoon one. 3 hrs transit onward to MAA and 5 hrs on the return should be much better compared to the SIN/KUL routes.



User currently offlineABpositive From Australia, joined Nov 2005, 226 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (6 years 7 months 1 week 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 9187 times:

Any plans they'll be adding new destinations (e.g. Hyderabad)?

User currently offlineCloudyapple From Hong Kong, joined Jul 2005, 2454 posts, RR: 10
Reply 13, posted (6 years 7 months 1 week 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 9006 times:



Quoting ABpositive (Reply 12):
Any plans they'll be adding new destinations (e.g. Hyderabad)?



Quoting Aarbee (Reply 5):
Does Cathay have any plans on hitting the secondary cities like SQ?

The current bilateral allows 27 additional flights on top of the existing ones. All of these have been accounted for in the current announcement. There are NO MORE rights between Hong Kong and India by any HK based carriers until the next round of bilateral talks.

Quoting Behramjee (Reply 6):
why is dragon air used for BLR? I would have prefered KA for MAA rather than a premium route such as BLR! maybe acft issues.

The bilateral was signed in December and it was a bit of a surprise for all given the years of deadlock. Cathay hasn't enough aeroplanes to ply all the routes while Dragon has. Some of Dragon's premium A333s are better than some of Cathay's older A333s. There should be no disappointment on Dragon's services.

Quoting LAXDESI (Reply 7):
Does anyone know the no. of business seats for flights to BLR and MAA?

http://www.dragonair.com/da/en_INTL/whatonboard/fleet/a_330_300



A310/A319/20/21/A332/3/A343/6/A388/B732/5/7/8/B742/S/4/B752/B763/B772/3/W/E145/J41/MD11/83/90
User currently offlineCloudyapple From Hong Kong, joined Jul 2005, 2454 posts, RR: 10
Reply 14, posted (6 years 7 months 1 week 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 9001 times:



Quoting Sshank (Reply 11):
SFO-HKG-MAA on CX will shave nearly 10 hours off the scenic route via SIN. I think CX is going to siphon off a fair bit of traffic away from SQ.

The new San Francisco flight has been added to tap the Indian market. Cathay was reluctant to start the second flight at one time because of the lack of Indian connections but they eventually ran out of patience and went ahead anyway before the new bilateral.



A310/A319/20/21/A332/3/A343/6/A388/B732/5/7/8/B742/S/4/B752/B763/B772/3/W/E145/J41/MD11/83/90
User currently offlineNimish From India, joined Feb 2005, 3219 posts, RR: 9
Reply 15, posted (6 years 7 months 1 week 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 8878 times:



Quoting LAXDESI (Reply 8):
Is KA a wholly owned subsidiary of CX?

Yes - 100% owned by CX

Quoting Behramjee (Reply 6):
I would have prefered KA for MAA rather than a premium route such as BLR! maybe acft issues.

Looking at KA's 333s, they have quite a few with a 3 class layout, so if they deploy their "Type 1" A333, that will mean 12 lie flat First class, 42J with 45" pitch and 9" recline and 230Y seats with 31" pitch and 6" recline.

Quoting Sshank (Reply 11):
SFO-HKG-MAA on CX will shave nearly 10 hours off the scenic route via SIN. I think CX is going to siphon off a fair bit of traffic away from SQ.

Oh yes - SQ is going to be the most impacted with this move, suddenly CX/HKG becomes the "fastest" route going from India to the North American west coast.



Latest Trip Report - GoAir BLR-BOM-BLR
User currently offlineLAXDESI From United States of America, joined May 2005, 5086 posts, RR: 48
Reply 16, posted (6 years 7 months 1 week 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 8705 times:



Quoting Sshank (Reply 11):
SFO-HKG-MAA on CX will shave nearly 10 hours off the scenic route via SIN. I think CX is going to siphon off a fair bit of traffic away from SQ.

These additional 27 weekly flights add about 500,000 seats annually between India-HKG; some of it will be for travel to HKG itself, and the rest for connecting flights to NE Asia and NA west coast. Likely losers are TG(NE Asia), MH(NE Asia), and SQ(NE Asia and NA west coast).

I hope AI is working on a plan to corner the additional rights from the Indian side; why not use the wet leased aircraft from IT to offer non-stop flights to HKG from BOM, DEL, MAA and HYD-- all timed to connect to UA/AC flights to NA west coast.


User currently offlineJlk From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 184 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (6 years 7 months 1 week 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 8625 times:



Quoting Nimish (Reply 15):
Looking at KA's 333s, they have quite a few with a 3 class layout, so if they deploy their "Type 1" A333, that will mean 12 lie flat First class, 42J with 45" pitch and 9" recline and 230Y seats with 31" pitch and 6" recline.

It doesn't look like it.

"Speaking at a press conference here today, Tom Wright, General Manager - India, Middle East, Africa and Pakistan, Cathay Pacific Airways, said that for the daily Bangalore service, Dragonair will operate A330-300 aircraft with a two-class configuration."

http://www.travelbizmonitor.com/arti...id=2006§ionid=15&name=Aviation

I think KA needs some big time advertising to popularize the "Dragon" name in BLR?


User currently offlineSandycx From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2008, 21 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (6 years 7 months 1 week 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 8522 times:

I don't quite understand how a double daily HKG-DEL can be sustained. These city pairs don't have significant business ties and HK is hardly as popular as BKK/SIN/KUL with the indian tourists. So they must be banking on connecting passengers to N Asia and North America, already well served directly from Delhi.

Quoting Karan69 (Reply 1):
Good planning by CX and Dragon Air, lets see the moves Indian Carries make

Jet Airways' India-PVG-SFO could be counted as a move for the moment (although it was announced before, so is not in reaction to CX) since it never was about India-HKG O&D market. Air India already serve US west coast via Europe if I'm not wrong and Kingfisher are planning on a nonstop A345 YVR route. Otherwise I don't see any Indian carriers rushing into Hong Kong just to take advantage of the fifth freedom.

Quoting Nimish (Reply 15):
Oh yes - SQ is going to be the most impacted with this move, suddenly CX/HKG becomes the "fastest" route going from India to the North American west coast.

No doubt, but you also have to look at the SQ brand-name in India. So they can perhaps still manage a decent number of the all important premium-class pax. But surely Cathay will have the best connections to North Asia and America from here on.


User currently offlineBehramjee From Canada, joined Aug 2003, 4769 posts, RR: 43
Reply 19, posted (6 years 7 months 1 week 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 8445 times:

Many of you upon reading this might be thinking why is CX sending KA aircraft to fly the all important HKG-BLR route when it could have instead used KA's A 333 dedicated for BLR for the second daily DEL flight. One should not underestimate the business acumen of CX's management board as they are astute students of the game. FYI, KA's new J class product on board its A 333s (Type 3) seats 30 having a seat pitch of 63 inches and a seat width of 27 inches. Yes 27 inches which means that its J class seats are wider than most airlines first class seats!

All of CX's new flights to India connect very well in both directions with their Japan, China, LAX, SFO, YVR and TPE flights in both directions which is essential for the routes to be profitable and see good load factors.

Another very important element which AI, 9W, EK, IT & IC have to worry about is that CX will be flying daily the high density BOM-DXB-BOM route with a 2 class 410 seater B 777-300A. By using such a big aircraft (capacity & cargo wise) for this key route, it will definitely give few headaches to the above mentioned airlines for market share control purposes.


User currently offlineCloudyapple From Hong Kong, joined Jul 2005, 2454 posts, RR: 10
Reply 20, posted (6 years 7 months 1 week 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 8349 times:



Quoting Sandycx (Reply 18):
I don't quite understand how a double daily HKG-DEL can be sustained. These city pairs don't have significant business ties and HK is hardly as popular as BKK/SIN/KUL with the indian tourists. So they must be banking on connecting passengers to N Asia and North America, already well served directly from Delhi.

About 40% of all passengers here in Hong Kong are on transit to somewhere else. The proportion of transit passengers on particular flights that are timed to connect onto other flights is much higher.

Quoting Sandycx (Reply 18):
Jet Airways' India-PVG-SFO could be counted as a move for the moment (although it was announced before, so is not in reaction to CX) since it never was about India-HKG O&D market.

Given the frequency of weather events and military events at short notice around Pudong and the resulting disruptions, Jet will learn very quickly it is not the best decision they have made. A typical fog event shuts the airport for 1-2 days and the military has shut the entire airspace around Shanghai at about 2 hours' notice a few times in the past year for exercise.

Quoting Sandycx (Reply 18):
Air India already serve US west coast via Europe

Which is significantly longer, subject to more delay in the european airspace and much higher en route charges.

Quoting Sandycx (Reply 18):
No doubt, but you also have to look at the SQ brand-name in India. So they can perhaps still manage a decent number of the all important premium-class pax.

Premium passengers are the more sensitive to flight times. You save them a minute, you save them a minute.



A310/A319/20/21/A332/3/A343/6/A388/B732/5/7/8/B742/S/4/B752/B763/B772/3/W/E145/J41/MD11/83/90
User currently offlineNimish From India, joined Feb 2005, 3219 posts, RR: 9
Reply 21, posted (6 years 7 months 1 week 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 8324 times:



Quoting Behramjee (Reply 19):
FYI, KA's new J class product on board its A 333s (Type 3) seats 30 having a seat pitch of 63 inches and a seat width of 27 inches. Yes 27 inches which means that its J class seats are wider than most airlines first class seats!

Sounds like it'll be a very comfortable flight for those in J! The flights have now been posted to the GDS systems, would appreciate if someone could post the current fares in say the lower Economy classes, and compare them to the lower fares on SQ and BA.



Latest Trip Report - GoAir BLR-BOM-BLR
User currently offlinePlaneboy From India, joined May 2005, 199 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (6 years 7 months 1 week 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 8239 times:

Ugh.. Am I missing something here. Somehow I couldn't get from when these new services of CX and KA are going to commence in India. I just checked the KA website. It has a small news item, but no information on when they are going to start the flights. Please help  Sad

User currently offlineCloudyapple From Hong Kong, joined Jul 2005, 2454 posts, RR: 10
Reply 23, posted (6 years 7 months 1 week 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 8211 times:



Quoting Planeboy (Reply 22):
Ugh.. Am I missing something here. Somehow I couldn't get from when these new services of CX and KA are going to commence in India. I just checked the KA website. It has a small news item, but no information on when they are going to start the flights. Please help  

Read their press releases.



A310/A319/20/21/A332/3/A343/6/A388/B732/5/7/8/B742/S/4/B752/B763/B772/3/W/E145/J41/MD11/83/90
User currently offlineNimish From India, joined Feb 2005, 3219 posts, RR: 9
Reply 24, posted (6 years 7 months 1 week 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 8169 times:



Quoting Planeboy (Reply 22):
Ugh.. Am I missing something here. Somehow I couldn't get from when these new services of CX and KA are going to commence in India. I just checked the KA website. It has a small news item, but no information on when they are going to start the flights. Please help

They start on May 1st, and I've posted detailed schedules on AI.net at http://airlinersindia.s4.bizhat.com/...=32694&mforum=airlinersindia#32694



Latest Trip Report - GoAir BLR-BOM-BLR
User currently offlineJlk From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 184 posts, RR: 0
Reply 25, posted (6 years 6 months 3 weeks 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 7906 times:

SQ responds.

"Singapore Airlines is introducing its second day-time flight out of Chennai in April, which will operate four times a week — this will be its 11th weekly flight. “There’s actually enough traffic on this sector for Singapore Airlines to even have three day-time flights every day, but we are constrained by traffic rights,” said Bharath Mahadevan, Manager (Southern India), Singapore Airlines."

http://www.hindu.com/2008/01/31/stories/2008013159080400.htm


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