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Would Ryanair Buy The 737-900?  
User currently offlineLHStarAlliance From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (6 years 7 months 2 weeks 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 5698 times:

Well that's the Question .

AFAIK they haven't done any statement on this A/C . Are there any reasons for FR to buy this airplane ?

Constantin

19 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineHT From Germany, joined May 2005, 6525 posts, RR: 23
Reply 1, posted (6 years 7 months 2 weeks 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 5675 times:

EDIT: The statement below has been proven to be wrong. Just for references, I keep it as it is but put it in Italics..
.
.
Unless I am in error here, the B737-900 is limited to carry 189 pax based on evacuation speed.
Therefore it would make no sense for FR to order a bigger airplane (= more expensive) if they cannot accomodate more pax than on their B737-800 which also have 189 seats.
Only airlines that offer more seat pitch and/or Business Class seats can make good use of the longer B739 while sticking to the 189-pax limit.

-HT

[Edited 2008-01-15 10:28:13]


Carpe diem ! Life is too short to waste your time ! Keep in mind, that today is the first day of the rest of your life !
User currently offlineFlyTUITravel From United Kingdom, joined May 2007, 723 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (6 years 7 months 2 weeks 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 5647 times:

I thought they overcame that problem with the 739ER?

User currently offlineHT From Germany, joined May 2005, 6525 posts, RR: 23
Reply 3, posted (6 years 7 months 2 weeks 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 5595 times:



Quoting FlyTUITravel (Reply 2):
I thought they overcame that problem with the 739ER?

 banghead  correct ...
215 pax is the new magical number isn't it ?



Carpe diem ! Life is too short to waste your time ! Keep in mind, that today is the first day of the rest of your life !
User currently offlineClydenairways From Ireland, joined Jan 2007, 1233 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (6 years 7 months 2 weeks 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 5566 times:



Quoting HT (Reply 1):
Unless I am in error here, the B737-900 is limited to carry 189 pax based on evacuation speed.

Firstly, they have fixed this problem with the 737-900ER which can go to over 200 seats, they have re-designed the rear bulkhead and also added another set of exits.

However, I'm not sure Ryanair would want to Operate a mixed fleet of 738 and 739 aircraft. They like to keep things as simple as possible.

But then, you never know....They have been able to isolate different types in the past, i'm sure Ryanair have had a good look at this aircraft anyway.


User currently offlineTdscanuck From Canada, joined Jan 2006, 12709 posts, RR: 80
Reply 5, posted (6 years 7 months 2 weeks 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 5445 times:



Quoting LHStarAlliance (Thread starter):
Are there any reasons for FR to buy this airplane ?

There are reasons not to, for sure. With an all 737-800 fleet, they don't have to worry at all about where each aircraft goes...any plane can do any mission. In order to use the greater capacity of the 737-900, they'd need to replace it with a 737-900 if something went wrong or abandon people on the ramp. So unless they got a group of them and kept them segregated in one particular part of their route structure, it seems like the complexity might not be worth it.

Tom.


User currently offlineKaitak From Ireland, joined Aug 1999, 12431 posts, RR: 37
Reply 6, posted (6 years 7 months 2 weeks 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 5426 times:

I would be extremely surprised if FR went down this route, for reasons already stated above. However, one thing that does surprise me is that FR has not shown interest in the "SFP" (Short Field Performance) package which is used by Gol in Brazil. FR is effectively limited to airports with runways of 6,000' and above and there are quite a few markets from which it's excluding itself as a result of this.

I guess the main reason not to use these acft is that they would be different from other aircraft in its fleet.


User currently offlineN1120A From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 26442 posts, RR: 75
Reply 7, posted (6 years 7 months 2 weeks 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 5426 times:



Quoting HT (Reply 1):
The statement below has been proven to be wrong. Just for references, I keep it as it is but put it in Italics..

Well, it isn't really wrong in this context. The 739 IS limited to 189 seats based on exit configuration (as is the 738, you can physically put 1 more row in)

Quoting FlyTUITravel (Reply 2):
I thought they overcame that problem with the 739ER?

Yes, though the OP did state 739, not 739ER

Quoting HT (Reply 3):

215 pax is the new magical number isn't it ?

Yes

Quoting Tdscanuck (Reply 5):
they'd need to replace it with a 737-900 if something went wrong or abandon people on the ramp.

And then pay the significant EU compensation that they fought so hard against. What would be more interesting would be FR asking Boeing to do what Airbus did with the A319 for Easyjet and add the second overwing to bring 738 capacity to 195.



Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
User currently offlineHT From Germany, joined May 2005, 6525 posts, RR: 23
Reply 8, posted (6 years 7 months 2 weeks 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 5397 times:



Quoting Tdscanuck (Reply 5):
In order to use the greater capacity of the 737-900, they'd need to replace it with a 737-900 if something went wrong or abandon people on the ramp.

Abandoning pax during times of trouble is Standard Operating Procedure at FR. Simply return them their paid monies and all is set by FR's views. No need to worry about alternative trasportatio or even putting stranded pax into a hotel.
I know, this is a harsh statement but there are numerous cases where this happened.

Quoting Kaitak (Reply 6):
I guess the main reason not to use these acft is that they would be different from other aircraft in its fleet.

Apart fromt he airframe-issue ...: Wouldn't there also be an issue with different engines for the -800 and the -900 model ? What would be the minimum number of aircraft in one's fleet to turn the extra effort into a profit ?
-HT



Carpe diem ! Life is too short to waste your time ! Keep in mind, that today is the first day of the rest of your life !
User currently offlineEXTspotter From United Kingdom, joined May 2007, 992 posts, RR: 1
Reply 9, posted (6 years 7 months 2 weeks 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 5349 times:

The FR 738s already have 2 overwings on each side, the only way to get another exit on each side is to add a door into the side of the fuselage. They've already done this, it is called the 739ER. FR cannot get any more 738 for its money. Adding a set of doors on an aircraft which only one airline is likely to order for 6 extra seats. It cannot make financial sense and for all the development, you can bet your ass that FR won't pay anything more for it.


AF BE BY FR MV PD SZ U2 VZ DHC6, 8-3/4Q, 732/8, 763ER, A319, A380
User currently offlineN1120A From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 26442 posts, RR: 75
Reply 10, posted (6 years 7 months 2 weeks 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 5337 times:



Quoting EXTspotter (Reply 9):
The FR 738s already have 2 overwings on each side, the only way to get another exit on each side is to add a door into the side of the fuselage.

That is actually what I meant. I was crossing the two different changes. Extra overwing for the A319, door for the 738.

Quoting EXTspotter (Reply 9):
They've already done this, it is called the 739ER

No, they haven't. The 739ER is physically larger than the 738.



Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
User currently offlineTdscanuck From Canada, joined Jan 2006, 12709 posts, RR: 80
Reply 11, posted (6 years 7 months 2 weeks 2 days ago) and read 5166 times:



Quoting HT (Reply 8):
Quoting Kaitak (Reply 6):
I guess the main reason not to use these acft is that they would be different from other aircraft in its fleet.

Apart fromt he airframe-issue ...: Wouldn't there also be an issue with different engines for the -800 and the -900 model ?

Depending on what they pick for the engines, they could have the same one. Physically, they're all the same, it's just a programming plug to change thrust.

Tom.


User currently offlineEXTspotter From United Kingdom, joined May 2007, 992 posts, RR: 1
Reply 12, posted (6 years 7 months 2 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 5039 times:

Yes, the 739ER is larger, however, putting extra doors on the 738 basic airframe would be costly and as FR is one of only a few airlines which would operate it at such high density, the development costs would have to be taken up mainly by FR. Most airlines would never get 189 seats in the 738 including the extra space created in the rear so there would be no point in creating a version which is certed up to 195. If boeing thought it would be a viable product, wouldn't they have produced it? Another point is that if FR wanted a higher number of seats on the 73NG platform, wouldn't Boeing have tried to create something in the niche, as that one particular airline was going to buy several hundred of the type, therefore making it viable, rather than an after-thought that may struggle to sell among airlines which are tied up in a 1 fleet type policy a la Ryanair? Another point is that at some point when the 738 is phased out of production, won't FR as well as many other airlines be operating more than one fleet-type, 737s and Y1s or whatever.


AF BE BY FR MV PD SZ U2 VZ DHC6, 8-3/4Q, 732/8, 763ER, A319, A380
User currently offlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 25154 posts, RR: 22
Reply 13, posted (6 years 7 months 2 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 4976 times:



Quoting EXTspotter (Reply 12):
Most airlines would never get 189 seats in the 738 including the extra space created in the rear so there would be no point in creating a version which is certed up to 195.

Many low-cost carriers other than Ryanair do have the maximum 189 seats in their 738s.

The 739ER would give Ryanair another 26 seats to sell which would generate a lot of revenue on many routes. However the operating and ownership costs would be higher. They would also need one more flight attendant once they exceed 200 seats..


User currently offlineMEA-707 From Netherlands, joined Nov 1999, 4315 posts, RR: 36
Reply 14, posted (6 years 7 months 2 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 4936 times:

actually I think it is more likely that Ryanair buys a subfleet of say 20-30 737-900ERs then for instance Southwest would.
Unlike hubless Southwest, Ryanairs aircraft are based at certain airports and fly to a limited number of destinations from there. If for instance the Madrid or Brussels/Charleroi originating services are relatively packed or have potential for growth, they can easily base some 739ERs there instead or together with 738s without much repercussions on the whole route network.
The 739ER is a bit more expensive and they'd need an extra stewardess but these costs can be covered by selling an extra 26 seats, while it will also be capable to fly from western Europe to Israel, Georgia, Russia, Nigeria, the UAE, destinations they might think about in the next 5 years.
On the other hand, so far it's only 737-800s so they might stick to the one plane formula just like Southwest.



nobody has ever died from hard work, but why take the risk?
User currently offlineN1120A From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 26442 posts, RR: 75
Reply 15, posted (6 years 7 months 2 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 4912 times:



Quoting EXTspotter (Reply 12):
putting extra doors on the 738 basic airframe would be costly and as FR is one of only a few airlines which would operate it at such high density

Again, look to Airbus modifying the A319 to do something similar.



Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
User currently offlineTonymctigue From Ireland, joined Feb 2006, 1944 posts, RR: 9
Reply 16, posted (6 years 7 months 2 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 4741 times:
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Quoting MEA-707 (Reply 14):
On the other hand, so far it's only 737-800s so they might stick to the one plane formula just like Southwest.

Well MOL learned most of what he knows from his intership at Southwest so until the 738 goes out of production, I think it is highly unlikely that we will be seeing any other types entering the FR fleet.



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User currently offlineJoost From Netherlands, joined Apr 2005, 3167 posts, RR: 4
Reply 17, posted (6 years 7 months 2 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 4619 times:



Quoting MEA-707 (Reply 14):
Unlike hubless Southwest, Ryanairs aircraft are based at certain airports and fly to a limited number of destinations from there.

But those are not always the same aircraft. The aircraft rotate through the bases as they have their maintenance checks. So an aircraft might be based at NRN, then have a C-check, and go to DUB after the check has been done.

With the current fleet, they can just replace any aircraft that needs maintenance with an aircraft that is just released from maintenance, no matter the base came from. Adding an extra aircraft type for one base would just add complexity.


User currently offlineVfw614 From Germany, joined Dec 2001, 3997 posts, RR: 5
Reply 18, posted (6 years 7 months 2 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 4468 times:



Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 13):
The 739ER would give Ryanair another 26 seats to sell which would generate a lot of revenue on many routes.

Well, given that FR has moved away from their earlier no-less-than-daily-frequencies principle and have begun operating numerous routes with two or three flights a week, it would be more logical that they they were more interested in adding frequencies rather than adding capacity on existing flights.


User currently offlineN1120A From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 26442 posts, RR: 75
Reply 19, posted (6 years 7 months 2 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 4350 times:



Quoting Tonymctigue (Reply 16):

Well MOL learned most of what he knows from his intership at Southwest

MOL applies very little of what he learned at WN.



Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
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