Deltaflyertoo From United States of America, joined Nov 2000, 1735 posts, RR: 1 Posted (8 years 3 weeks 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 3243 times:
Was curious, since WN is so point to point and city pair oriented, and when looking at an AVERAGE station like SMF, PIT, IND, SAN, etc...where service is scheduled around the O&D desires....how do they schedule on their larger cities? Take PHX, HOU and MDW for example, is there a percentage of flights that are banked hub style like the legacies do at their fortress cities, i.e. dozens of WN flights strategically timed to all arrive at the same time only to depart 30 minutes later in unison? Or are these big WN cities timed for the O&D in mind only and rolling throughout day much like their smaller/average stations do?
Yep. Here in BNA, most of the 84 or so flights each day arrive around the top quarter or bottom quarter of the hours and depart seomwhere inbetween. Nothing too special about it really. That's not always the case, but it usually "seems" that way.
AlexPorter From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (8 years 3 weeks 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 2870 times:
At PHX I can visibly see banks. There actually seems to be a three-stroke cycle to flights at PHX, particularly for departures. One phase is just a bunch of US flights, which blends into a bunch of WN flights departing. Then there is a bit of a quiet time which has other airlines departing, usually things like Ted, Delta, WestJet, AA, etc. Of course they blend in a bit, but there are noticable waves of WN traffic, just like US, and they seem to avoid overlapping much to keep traffic managable and avoid holds, even longer taxi lines than they have now, etc.
Whatever else you might say about WN's operations at PHX, you cannot say that it is a hub with clearly defined banks of flights. If you persist in thinking of it as a hub, then you ought to use this as the textbook definition of a rolling hub.
Frankly, I don't see much room for improvement as far as a regular, orderly ebb and flow of flights is concerned. Rather than say Phoenix is a hub, think of it as a station that has lots of flights and where people can make connections.
SANFan From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 6050 posts, RR: 12
Reply 8, posted (8 years 3 weeks 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 2726 times:
Quoting TxAgKuwait (Reply 7): Rather than say Phoenix is a hub, think of it as a station that has lots of flights and where people can make connections.
Quoting Silver1SWA (Reply 4): Yup, here at SAN it's pretty much a steady flow of traffic non-stop from 0630 til 2300
Exactly what I was going to say: WN operates with high-frequency in their high-traffic markets (and there are a lot of them.) SAN is the smallest of WN's Top 10 Stations and we (will) have 109 flights a day in a couple of months; with that number of flights, you can't help but have connecting opportunities. They also operate many low-frequency routes (2-4 flights a day) but again, there's always a connecting flight within an hour and a half to a high-freq city.
With a Mega Station such as LAS or MDW (225-240 flights per day) there are simply more cities and more flights but the same principle. There simply are no organized "banks" -- there's just no need for them.
DesertAir From Mexico, joined Jan 2006, 1545 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (8 years 3 weeks 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 2662 times:
WN seems to operate like, what other airlines call, a rolling hub. When I fly from Tucson to California through SAN, there are flights departing for most California cities every hour to two hours. The same for when I connect through LAS. When I select flights, I can often choose the amount of connect time I want between flights.
AAR90 From United States of America, joined Jan 2000, 3568 posts, RR: 43
Reply 10, posted (8 years 3 weeks 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 2556 times:
Any US airline that continues to operate "banks" of flights at their hubs is living in the past. AA "depeaked" their hubs years ago. The basics economics have changed from creating banks of flights to maximize revenue at the hub (but at extremely high marginal costs) to operating the hub at minimum cost (essentially the least number of gates/people) and trying to maximize the revenue within those operating restrictions (minimize hub costs). The only "banks" remaining at AA hubs are the international departures --due to route/slot schedule restrictions.
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DiscoverCSG From United States of America, joined Jan 2007, 965 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (8 years 3 weeks 4 days ago) and read 2502 times:
Quoting AAR90 (Reply 10): Any US airline that continues to operate "banks" of flights at their hubs is living in the past.
I'd add the word "large" before "hubs." Sure, DL at ATL or AA at DFW can operate with no particular peaks beyond those dictated by the O+D market.
BUT... smaller hubs won't function that way. I'm thinking of CO at CLE, NW at MEM, and so forth. Here, frequency is not as great, so it's necessary to time banks to allow convenient connections. What good does it to to be able to fly TLH-MEM-OKC if the connection choices are 19 minutes or 5 hours?
Lemurs From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 1439 posts, RR: 3
Reply 12, posted (8 years 3 weeks 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 2457 times:
Quoting DiscoverCSG (Reply 11): I'd add the word "large" before "hubs." Sure, DL at ATL or AA at DFW can operate with no particular peaks beyond those dictated by the O+D market.
It also makes sense to schedule banks for Int'l flying, which means scheduling incoming and outgoing banks to match up with that demand. You won't typically have more than 1x or 2x flights to any long-haul destination, and if you're a network carrier, you want to make sure that you can bring people in for those flights, and have flights to other spoke destinations for incoming Int'l passengers.
WN has a great system for a carrier that doesn't have any flights longer than 5hrs. It doesn't translate well when you have a few, much longer, flights.
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