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Does WN Schedule "Banks"?  
User currently offlineDeltaflyertoo From United States of America, joined Nov 2000, 1647 posts, RR: 1
Posted (6 years 7 months 2 weeks 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 2667 times:

Was curious, since WN is so point to point and city pair oriented, and when looking at an AVERAGE station like SMF, PIT, IND, SAN, etc...where service is scheduled around the O&D desires....how do they schedule on their larger cities? Take PHX, HOU and MDW for example, is there a percentage of flights that are banked hub style like the legacies do at their fortress cities, i.e. dozens of WN flights strategically timed to all arrive at the same time only to depart 30 minutes later in unison? Or are these big WN cities timed for the O&D in mind only and rolling throughout day much like their smaller/average stations do?

13 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineOPNLguy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (6 years 7 months 2 weeks 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 2639 times:



Quoting Deltaflyertoo (Thread starter):
Or are these big WN cities timed for the O&D in mind only and rolling throughout day much like their smaller/average stations do?

That's pretty much it...


User currently offlineLexy From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 2515 posts, RR: 8
Reply 2, posted (6 years 7 months 2 weeks 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 2542 times:



Quoting OPNLguy (Reply 1):
That's pretty much it...

Yep. Here in BNA, most of the 84 or so flights each day arrive around the top quarter or bottom quarter of the hours and depart seomwhere inbetween. Nothing too special about it really. That's not always the case, but it usually "seems" that way.



Nashville, Tennessee KBNA
User currently offlineRJNUT From United States of America, joined Dec 1999, 1220 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (6 years 7 months 2 weeks 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 2482 times:

that is a "dirty" word at SWA....dont say the "bank" or" hub" word, or you will get cursed ....

Most of my WN travelers on DO MAKE !!! connections at one of their phantom hubs (excuse me..focus cities)!!!


User currently offlineSilver1SWA From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 4783 posts, RR: 26
Reply 4, posted (6 years 7 months 2 weeks 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 2455 times:
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Yup, here at SAN it's pretty much a steady flow of traffic non-stop from 0630 til 2300.


ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
User currently offlineCubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 22926 posts, RR: 20
Reply 5, posted (6 years 7 months 2 weeks 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 2455 times:

Their gate utilization is generally too high to schedule banks like, say, NW at MEM.


I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
User currently offlineAlexPorter From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (6 years 7 months 2 weeks 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 2294 times:

At PHX I can visibly see banks. There actually seems to be a three-stroke cycle to flights at PHX, particularly for departures. One phase is just a bunch of US flights, which blends into a bunch of WN flights departing. Then there is a bit of a quiet time which has other airlines departing, usually things like Ted, Delta, WestJet, AA, etc. Of course they blend in a bit, but there are noticable waves of WN traffic, just like US, and they seem to avoid overlapping much to keep traffic managable and avoid holds, even longer taxi lines than they have now, etc.

User currently offlineTxAgKuwait From United States of America, joined Aug 1999, 1803 posts, RR: 42
Reply 7, posted (6 years 7 months 2 weeks 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 2181 times:



Quote:
At PHX I can visibly see banks

I won't argue that Phoenix doesn't have banks. They just don't belong to WN.

Here's the deal: Since I had a few mins to kill, I downloaded the WN May schedule, and separated flights by arrival time.

When you break it down to inbound operations per hour, here's what you get:

0600 - 0659 2
0700 - 0759 11
0800 - 0859 16
0900 - 0959 12
1000 - 1059 10
1100 - 1159 10
1200 - 1259 13
1300 - 1359 12
1400 - 1459 11
1500 - 1559 11
1600 - 1659 11
1700 - 1759 12
1800 - 1859 14
1900 - 1959 13
2000 - 2059 12
2100 - 2159 14
2200 - 2259 11
2300 - 2359 3

Total 198

Whatever else you might say about WN's operations at PHX, you cannot say that it is a hub with clearly defined banks of flights. If you persist in thinking of it as a hub, then you ought to use this as the textbook definition of a rolling hub.

Frankly, I don't see much room for improvement as far as a regular, orderly ebb and flow of flights is concerned. Rather than say Phoenix is a hub, think of it as a station that has lots of flights and where people can make connections.


User currently offlineSANFan From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 5411 posts, RR: 12
Reply 8, posted (6 years 7 months 2 weeks 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 2150 times:



Quoting TxAgKuwait (Reply 7):
Rather than say Phoenix is a hub, think of it as a station that has lots of flights and where people can make connections.



Quoting Silver1SWA (Reply 4):
Yup, here at SAN it's pretty much a steady flow of traffic non-stop from 0630 til 2300

Exactly what I was going to say: WN operates with high-frequency in their high-traffic markets (and there are a lot of them.) SAN is the smallest of WN's Top 10 Stations and we (will) have 109 flights a day in a couple of months; with that number of flights, you can't help but have connecting opportunities. They also operate many low-frequency routes (2-4 flights a day) but again, there's always a connecting flight within an hour and a half to a high-freq city.

With a Mega Station such as LAS or MDW (225-240 flights per day) there are simply more cities and more flights but the same principle. There simply are no organized "banks" -- there's just no need for them.

bb


User currently offlineDesertAir From Mexico, joined Jan 2006, 1461 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (6 years 7 months 2 weeks 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 2086 times:

WN seems to operate like, what other airlines call, a rolling hub. When I fly from Tucson to California through SAN, there are flights departing for most California cities every hour to two hours. The same for when I connect through LAS. When I select flights, I can often choose the amount of connect time I want between flights.

User currently offlineAAR90 From United States of America, joined Jan 2000, 3471 posts, RR: 47
Reply 10, posted (6 years 7 months 2 weeks 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 1980 times:

Any US airline that continues to operate "banks" of flights at their hubs is living in the past. AA "depeaked" their hubs years ago. The basics economics have changed from creating banks of flights to maximize revenue at the hub (but at extremely high marginal costs) to operating the hub at minimum cost (essentially the least number of gates/people) and trying to maximize the revenue within those operating restrictions (minimize hub costs). The only "banks" remaining at AA hubs are the international departures --due to route/slot schedule restrictions.


*NO CARRIER* -- A Naval Aviator's worst nightmare!
User currently offlineDiscoverCSG From United States of America, joined Jan 2007, 831 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (6 years 7 months 2 weeks 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 1926 times:



Quoting AAR90 (Reply 10):
Any US airline that continues to operate "banks" of flights at their hubs is living in the past.

I'd add the word "large" before "hubs." Sure, DL at ATL or AA at DFW can operate with no particular peaks beyond those dictated by the O+D market.

BUT... smaller hubs won't function that way. I'm thinking of CO at CLE, NW at MEM, and so forth. Here, frequency is not as great, so it's necessary to time banks to allow convenient connections. What good does it to to be able to fly TLH-MEM-OKC if the connection choices are 19 minutes or 5 hours?


User currently offlineLemurs From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 1439 posts, RR: 4
Reply 12, posted (6 years 7 months 2 weeks 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 1881 times:



Quoting DiscoverCSG (Reply 11):
I'd add the word "large" before "hubs." Sure, DL at ATL or AA at DFW can operate with no particular peaks beyond those dictated by the O+D market.

It also makes sense to schedule banks for Int'l flying, which means scheduling incoming and outgoing banks to match up with that demand. You won't typically have more than 1x or 2x flights to any long-haul destination, and if you're a network carrier, you want to make sure that you can bring people in for those flights, and have flights to other spoke destinations for incoming Int'l passengers.

WN has a great system for a carrier that doesn't have any flights longer than 5hrs. It doesn't translate well when you have a few, much longer, flights.



There are 10 kinds of people in the world; those who understand binary, and those that don't.
User currently offlineCubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 22926 posts, RR: 20
Reply 13, posted (6 years 7 months 2 weeks 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 1851 times:



Quoting DiscoverCSG (Reply 11):

I'd add the word "large" before "hubs." Sure, DL at ATL or AA at DFW can operate with no particular peaks beyond those dictated by the O+D market.

NW seems to do all right with banks at DTW, which is a large hub. Wasn't ATL at about 700 daily flights when it was banked (IIRC, they unbanked it early 2005)?



I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
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