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Continental To Australia  
User currently offlineBoeing777228 From United States of America, joined Dec 2007, 21 posts, RR: 0
Posted (6 years 3 months 1 week 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 13257 times:

I know that CO flies from GUM to CNS....I believe at one point they served SYD.

I have often wondered why CO hasn't served SYD from IAH. They just acquired two more 777ER. Maybe buy two 777LRs. The great circle is 7500nm...could a 777LR make it????

DXB-IAH is 7100nm.

Any comments???

66 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineEWRCabincrew From United States of America, joined May 2006, 5523 posts, RR: 56
Reply 1, posted (6 years 3 months 1 week 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 13232 times:



Quoting Boeing777228 (Thread starter):
I believe at one point they served SYD.

We served SYD, MEL, CNS and BNE from HNL and AKL. We also flew SYD from GUM, too. Now it is just CNS.

There are rumors of more Oz flights, but they are just that until they happen. Rumors.



You can't cure stupid
User currently offlineDeltaL1011man From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 9087 posts, RR: 12
Reply 2, posted (6 years 3 months 1 week 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 13186 times:



Quoting Boeing777228 (Thread starter):
I have often wondered why CO hasn't served SYD from IAH. They just acquired two more 777ER. Maybe buy two 777LRs. The great circle is 7500nm...could a 777LR make it????

a 77E i would think could make it but if not I'm sure a 77L could (they can make ATL-SYD)as for just picking up 2 for the route thats not to smart you wouldn't want a sub fleet of just 2



yep.
User currently offlinePITrules From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 3040 posts, RR: 4
Reply 3, posted (6 years 3 months 1 week 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 13082 times:

Quoting DeltaL1011man (Reply 2):
as for just picking up 2 for the route thats not to smart you wouldn't want a sub fleet of just 2

Plus you have to do something with the airplane between morning arrival in IAH and the evening's departure to SYD, such as a domestic turn. A domestic turn may not be the optimal use of a 777 for Continental. But then again maybe it is when considering the revunue from a SYD flight...does CAL use a 777 domestically (between IAH and EWR perhaps)?

But I think IAH-SYD/AKL would be a great route.

[Edited 2008-01-16 18:45:33]


FLYi
User currently offlineLincoln From United States of America, joined Nov 2004, 3887 posts, RR: 8
Reply 4, posted (6 years 3 months 1 week 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 13068 times:

Quoting EWRCabincrew (Reply 1):
rumors of more Oz flights, but they are just that until they happen. Rumors.

I thought officially, at least, CO already served Australia -- on the 737-800, no less -- albeit only Mondays and Fridays (it seems). [CO does seem to be in this wierd "is it CO or is it CO Mike" phase -- depending on which PR person you listen to... since CO Mike is wholly owned, I'm going to call it CO...after all, we call destinations served by ExpressJet d/b/a Continental Express CO destinations   ]

For example, I can book CO1045 CLE-IAH, CO1 IAH-HNL-GUM, CO902 (op. by. CM) GUM-CNS for about $2200 in Economy... and it would only take 27 hours, 45 minutes to get there if everything was on time!

Lincoln
(I can book it, but I wonder if any sane person in their right mind would book it. It sounds very much like a Priceline Itinerary from Hell)

[Edited 2008-01-16 18:19:19]


CO Is My Airline of Choice || Baggage Claim is an airline's last chance to disappoint a customer || Next flts in profile
User currently offlineEWRCabincrew From United States of America, joined May 2006, 5523 posts, RR: 56
Reply 5, posted (6 years 3 months 1 week 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 13049 times:



Quoting PITrules (Reply 3):
But then again maybe it is...does CAL use a 777 domestically (between IAH and EWR perhaps)?

Occasionally we run one. We will be in February, for example. We swap out our 777s in NRT, LGW (soon to be LHR), CDG and the odd domestic run.

Quoting PITrules (Reply 3):
But I think IAH-SYD/AKL would be a great route.

Sure would.



You can't cure stupid
User currently offlineSac From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 98 posts, RR: 2
Reply 6, posted (6 years 3 months 1 week 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 12861 times:

the 777 flies from EWR-IAH-EZE on Thurs and back on Friday night EZE-IAH-EWR arriving on Saturday

User currently offlineEWRCabincrew From United States of America, joined May 2006, 5523 posts, RR: 56
Reply 7, posted (6 years 3 months 1 week 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 12831 times:



Quoting Sac (Reply 6):
the 777 flies from EWR-IAH-EZE on Thurs and back on Friday night EZE-IAH-EWR arriving on Saturday



Quoting EWRCabincrew (Reply 5):
the odd domestic run.

 checkmark 

Quoting Lincoln (Reply 4):
I'm going to call it CO

I just call it Air Mike. Old school here, I guess.  Smile



You can't cure stupid
User currently offlineATCtower From United States of America, joined Dec 2007, 532 posts, RR: 3
Reply 8, posted (6 years 3 months 1 week 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 12143 times:



Quoting DeltaL1011man (Reply 2):
a 77E i would think could make it but if not I'm sure a 77L could (they can make ATL-SYD)as for just picking up 2 for the route thats not to smart you wouldn't want a sub fleet of just 2

The max range of a 77L is 9450nm. I would think 7470 should not be a problem.  Wink



By reading the above post you waive all rights to be offended. If you do not like what you read, forget it.
User currently offlineFUN2FLY From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 1000 posts, RR: 1
Reply 9, posted (6 years 3 months 1 week 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 12088 times:



Quoting EWRCabincrew (Reply 5):
Quoting PITrules (Reply 3):
But I think IAH-SYD/AKL would be a great route.

Sure would.

Larry and the boys said in a Q4 meeting they plan on using the 787's for expansion out of IAH to China and the S.Pacific. They did not specify OZ or NZ, but would be great to see a CO flight. I think they would do well - IAH is a good connection hub and the 787 is right sized for the mission.


User currently offlineEWRCabincrew From United States of America, joined May 2006, 5523 posts, RR: 56
Reply 10, posted (6 years 3 months 1 week 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 12071 times:



Quoting FUN2FLY (Reply 9):
Larry and the boys said in a Q4 meeting they plan on using the 787's for expansion out of IAH to China and the S.Pacific. They did not specify OZ or NZ, but would be great to see a CO flight. I think they would do
well - IAH is a good connection hub and the 787 is right sized for the mission.

Time will tell. That and a transfer to the IAH base when/if it does. Big grin



You can't cure stupid
User currently onlineMarkam From United States of America, joined Jan 2008, 373 posts, RR: 1
Reply 11, posted (6 years 3 months 1 week 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 11897 times:

Oh man, when I read the title of the topic I thought Continental was going to start flying to Australia from the continental States... don't play with my feelings like this!  Silly

User currently offlineGreenair727 From United States of America, joined Jan 2007, 544 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (6 years 3 months 1 week 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 11728 times:

Isn't there some bilateral limiting the number of carriers between Australia and mainland US to 2 (AA and UA)-- And Australian carriers to 1 or 2 (Qantas)? And a big stir was caused when Singapore wanted to serve the route under 5th Freedoms? I don't know the details but remember something like this occurred.

User currently offlineScottB From United States of America, joined Jul 2000, 6581 posts, RR: 32
Reply 13, posted (6 years 3 months 1 week 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 11607 times:



Quoting Lincoln (Reply 4):
For example, I can book CO1045 CLE-IAH, CO1 IAH-HNL-GUM, CO902 (op. by. CM) GUM-CNS for about $2200 in Economy... and it would only take 27 hours, 45 minutes to get there if everything was on time!

Sure, but if CNS were actually where you wanted to go, that's exactly the itinerary you should book. If I try to book CLE-CNS on United, the shortest routing (by time) is a tie between:

UA 753 CLE-ORD, UA 863 ORD-SFO-SYD (change of aircraft at SFO), UA 9511 SYD-CNS (operated by DJ)
and
UA 753 CLE-ORD, UA 127 ORD-LAX, UA 839 LAX-SYD, UA 9511 SYD-CNS (operated by DJ)

Both depart at 1640 (local) and arrive 1205+2 (local) -- for a total elapsed time of 28 hours, 25 minutes.

Sure, it's not the best way to get to SYD, but I don't think CO even tries to market it that way.


User currently offline787EWR From United States of America, joined Apr 2007, 204 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (6 years 3 months 1 week 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 9858 times:



Quoting Greenair727 (Reply 12):
Isn't there some bilateral limiting the number of carriers between Australia and mainland US to 2 (AA and UA)-- And Australian carriers to 1 or 2 (Qantas)? And a big stir was caused when Singapore wanted to serve the route under 5th Freedoms? I don't know the details but remember something like this occurred.

That is correct, but I believe that airlines are gearing up to start services there again should the Open Skies agreement be signed between the US and Australia. The other thing that might be interesting is the fact that the flights may not have to terminate in SYD. BNE, from what I have read, has done a lot of work to improve itself as an international gateway. The "Gold Coast & Sunshine Coast" of Australia is doing very well, primarily from Asian tourist. If these regions can attract more visitors from AmericaCanada by having international airlines land in BNE, the money would continue to flow.


User currently offlineN174UA From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 994 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (6 years 3 months 1 week 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 8901 times:



Quoting Boeing777228 (Thread starter):
I believe at one point they served SYD.

Yes...with a 747-200 they got from People Express. I rode on them from MEL-AKL (12/26/87) and then a few days later from AKL-SYD.


User currently offlineEWRCabincrew From United States of America, joined May 2006, 5523 posts, RR: 56
Reply 16, posted (6 years 3 months 1 week 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 8602 times:



Quoting N174UA (Reply 15):
Yes...with a 747-200 they got from People Express.

We flew to Oz long before we got the PE 747s. We flew South Pac with the DC-10s to start, then the 747s.



You can't cure stupid
User currently offlineWorldsurfer From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 128 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (6 years 3 months 1 week 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 8474 times:



Quoting 787EWR (Reply 14):
That is correct, but I believe that airlines are gearing up to start services there again should the Open Skies agreement be signed between the US and Australia. The other thing that might be interesting is the fact that the flights may not have to terminate in SYD. BNE, from what I have read, has done a lot of work to improve itself as an international gateway. The "Gold Coast & Sunshine Coast" of Australia is doing very well, primarily from Asian tourist. If these regions can attract more visitors from AmericaCanada by having international airlines land in BNE, the money would continue to flow.

I was in BNE about 2 weeks ago , the airport was very crowded , but with a lot if upgrades in progress
both landside and airside.
It has a good rail connection to the center of Brisbane and it continues down to the Gold Coast.
There are plans to extend the rail link down to Coolangata Airport (OOL)
which i think already has some international service as well , there were signs all over the Gold Coast Highway for Air Asia X to KUL.


User currently offlineGemuser From Australia, joined Nov 2003, 5554 posts, RR: 6
Reply 18, posted (6 years 3 months 1 week 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 8155 times:



Quoting 787EWR (Reply 14):
Quoting Greenair727 (Reply 12):Isn't there some bilateral limiting the number of carriers between Australia and mainland US to 2 (AA and UA)-- And Australian carriers to 1 or 2 (Qantas)? And a big stir was caused when Singapore wanted to serve the route under 5th Freedoms? I don't know the details but remember something like this occurred.

That is correct, but I believe that airlines are gearing up to start services there again should the Open Skies agreement be signed between the US and Australia.

THIS IS NOT CORRECT!

There is NO limit on the number of US or Oz carriers offering services between the US & Australia. There are no defined gateways any more, they can serve any airport designated for international service (ie has C&I services). There IS a frequency limitation on "new" carriers, but there is currently a dispute over wether the frequency limit is a maximum or minimum. The talks in Feb will address this issue, among others. The frequency limitation would not apply to CO anyway as it is not a "new" carrier, it already serves Oz.

One possible technical problem is that CO will need 240 min ETOPS to operate twins IAH-SYD, do they have this? (I doubt it, its not needed in the Northern Hemisphere). Further more the FAAs new ETOPS rules, AFAIK, are not approved by ICAO, so Oz does not have to accept approval to them in any operation to Oz, and believe me there will be technical people opposed to allowing any ETOPS above 180, especially in mid Pacific. The pollies could over rule them, but who knows.

In summary, there are NO bi-lateral problems in CO starting IAH-SYD/BNE/MEL services as soon as they want.

Gemuser



DC23468910;B72172273373G73873H74374475275376377L77W;A319 320321332333343;BAe146;C402;DHC6;F27;L188;MD80MD85
User currently offlineSQ6807 From New Zealand, joined Jan 2008, 163 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (6 years 3 months 1 week 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 8006 times:

The introduction of CO services to Australia would bring a much needed SkyTeam presence. Excepting services to North Asia by KE and CZ, and a smattering of codeshares the Australasian region is a significant blank spot for SkyTeam. One might think that a CO link to North Ameria might draw feed from the likes of DL and NW.

In addition, a SYD-IAH-EWR routing would allow CO to compete directly with QF on the SYD-NYC routing.


User currently offlineDavidByrne From New Zealand, joined Sep 2007, 1610 posts, RR: 2
Reply 20, posted (6 years 3 months 1 week 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 7986 times:



Quoting EWRCabincrew (Reply 1):
We served SYD, MEL, CNS and BNE from HNL and AKL

. . . and also from PPT via AKL.

CO used to be a very competitive link between the UK and NZ in the 1980s - several times I flew the routing LGW-DEN-HNL-AKL and v/v, which was at that time (I think) the fastest way between the UK and NZ. I also used to route via HOU-LAX-HNL/PPT or via EWR-LAX-HNL/PPT. I think they lost my luggage three times in one year, though - that was less than competitive . . .



This is not my beautiful house . . . This is not my beautiful wife
User currently offlineScottB From United States of America, joined Jul 2000, 6581 posts, RR: 32
Reply 21, posted (6 years 3 months 1 week 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 7890 times:



Quoting Gemuser (Reply 18):
The frequency limitation would not apply to CO anyway as it is not a "new" carrier, it already serves Oz.

Perhaps this is why CO continues its twice-weekly GUM-CNS service?


User currently offlineAvek00 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 4288 posts, RR: 20
Reply 22, posted (6 years 3 months 1 week 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 7369 times:

Australia and NZ will be far down the list for new service for most any mainland US carrier because of: 1) intensive widebody fleet utilization (realistically, a 2.5 aircraft rotation to support ONE daily service to Australia), 2) brutal prospects for capturing premium traffic (Qantas literally owns all of the premium traffic in the USA-Australia market), and 3) payload issues (if not departing from the West Coast, payload hits can become a problem regardless of aircraft type used).


Live life to the fullest.
User currently offlineGigneil From United States of America, joined Nov 2002, 16345 posts, RR: 86
Reply 23, posted (6 years 3 months 1 week 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 6837 times:



Quoting DeltaL1011man (Reply 2):
a 77E i would think could make it but if not I'm sure a 77L could (they can make ATL-SYD)as for just picking up 2 for the route thats not to smart you wouldn't want a sub fleet of just 2

That's backwards.

Additionally, a 777-200LR isn't an undesirable subfleet in the CO 777 stable really, as their GE90s have all been upgraded to the -94B standard and share a lot of commonality with the -110B1, otherwise the planes are almost entirely common.

They wouldn't just get 2, if they were going to... I'm not entirely sure they will, however. If they want to fly IAH-SYD, they can do it with a pair (3 might be required) of 787-8s.

I think CO's additions for longer-haul flying will come in the form of 787-8s and -9s. It really depends on what merger activity happens. A merged UA/CO could certainly avail themselves of a fleet of 777-200LRs as well as 777-300ERs, plus a slew of new 787s.


(Delta's 777-200LRs will not be able to fly ATL-SYD, btw. See below)

Quoting ATCtower (Reply 8):
The max range of a 77L is 9450nm. I would think 7470 should not be a problem.  

IAH-SYD is no problem at all. That also being said, no 777-200LRs have been ordered or delivered with the 9450nm range. It requires all 3 tanks, and no tanks have even been ordered.

The 8400ish mile range of the standard 777-200LR is more than fine for the 99th percentile of flights.

NS


User currently offlineEWRCabincrew From United States of America, joined May 2006, 5523 posts, RR: 56
Reply 24, posted (6 years 3 months 1 week 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 6762 times:



Quoting DavidByrne (Reply 20):
and also from PPT via AKL.

It was part of the SYD from AKL reference. I keep forgetting A.netters need more info.  Wink Big grin

The PPT-AKL-SYD and return flight originated/terminated in LAX.



You can't cure stupid
25 DeltaL1011man : me too ok first 3 carriers fly to Oz CO,HA,UA 2nd anyone can fly there but the start out with 4x weekly(?) for a little while right so 77E cant make
26 Evan767 : No, but from LAX and HNL it can...
27 DeltaL1011man : this i know along with SFO right?(a 763ER can make HNL-SYD)
28 Boeingfan : CO or CM to Australia, that would be excellent if they are going to fly to SYD. Even with stop in HNL or other interim point I'd fly CO for sure. Nice
29 Timz : Would be nice to have 240, but they could manage without it. The dogleg to stay within 180 minutes of Hawaii adds maybe 3 nm to the trip.
30 Post contains images FlashFlyGuy : Which, if I remember correctly, were the ex QF 238B's. I have a picture I took at SYD of the inaugural CO DC-10, at the gate at the International ter
31 Timz : On further reflection, it might be 50-70 nm added. Could well be less that that, tho-- in any case, not prohibitive.
32 Jimbobjoe : Funny that this came up. I actually had to book CLE-CNS once for a friend. At the time it worked out cheapest via NRT (booked as two separate tickets
33 Asuflyer05 : Oddly enough when I did EWR-MSP-HNL-MAJ-KWA-PNI-KSA-TKK-GUM-CNS-SYD in September, there were quite a few people from my GUM-CNS flight sleeping in th
34 CALPSAFltSkeds : Actually, wouldn't it depend on the wind. The dogleg could take the flight plan into headwinds, adding much more than 3 or 50 miles to the trip.
35 RwSEA : No it can't, at least not with any sort of profitable payload. Which would immediately put DL back into bankruptcy ...
36 Nzrich : Dont forget Air NZ is also a fierce competitor between NZ and USA and its also a major competitor in the AU-USA route via AKL also .. With up to 7 fl
37 Koruman : No, the flight uses Guam's US flag as a legal way of flying Japanese tourists to the Great Barrier Reef. Last time I flew it over 95% of the pax were
38 Misbeehavin : Here's a thought: if all the skyteam members started getting along, they could work out something to Australia through HNL. CO already does HNL from E
39 AznMadSci : Some problems arise from this scenario. First, this idea would attract leisure travellers rather than business. Though cargo could contribute to yiel
40 Viscount724 : For a country with a population slightly over 4 million (smaller than many U.S. metropolitan areas) there can't be much room for more carriers in the
41 Gemuser : Amazing isn't it! 4 million people and they lob up to SEVEN wide bodies a day into North America! I think AirNZ is one of the worlds truely great air
42 DavidByrne : Actually, I can't think of more than five flights on any given day - 2 to LAX nonstop, one (most days) to LAX via the Pacific, one to SFO, and one a
43 Post contains links LAXdude1023 : Well actually Australia's population is around 21 million. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Australia But I will say that Im skeptical of any flight orig
44 Nzrich : Yes but i did say to inc HNL as well as that is part of USA so their is the 7th
45 Gemuser : True, but what has that got to do with NZ??? Gemuser
46 Bobnwa : What do you mean, it is almost all O&D traffic in HNL. Very few passengers connect In HNL unless it is to one of the other Hawaiian Islands.
47 LAXdude1023 : My bad, I was really drunk last night when I wrote that. Thinking clearly, but drunk.
48 Misbeehavin : Well, Hawaii is almost all O&D! And if travellers (business or leisure) have to connect somewhere, what difference should it make if it's HNL or LAX
49 Viscount724 : But LAX and to a lesser extent SFO are major O&D markets to/from Australia and New Zealand while HNL is not (except for some low-yield leisure traffi
50 Post contains images Gemuser : Beware the strong drink, my lad! It can make you do stupid things. If this exchange had happened fast enough that you were still drunk, the drink mig
51 DeltaL1011man : as i have you many times pove it please
52 Airbear : By way of a history lesson, my wife & I flew with CO DC-10-30's (N68060 on the way out... don't know about the return), SYD/NAN/SYD on our honeymoon b
53 DavidByrne : My recollection is that CO operated three basic routes during the latter part of the 1980s, as follows: LAX-PPT-AKL-Australia LAX-HNL-AKL-Australia L
54 SydneyGuy : Wow, a blast from the past, the good old days!!! I remember as a kid seeing the CO DC-10-30s and the CO 747-100s! Then again I also remeber the UA 747
55 Post contains images LAXdude1023 : Haha, Ive been to both Australia and New Zealand many times and I know they are quite different.
56 DavidByrne : Back in the (early 70s?) AA used to fly to AKL and (I assume) SYD with 707s, but the service only lasted a few years.
57 Airbear : Hello DavidByrne ... yes, and then they tried again around 1990 for maybe 12-18 months, with DC-10's ex SYD, in the (expected) lead-up to beginning se
58 28L28L : Does anyone remember the date that CO pulled service from Australia? About '93 or '94???
59 Viscount724 : AA service to the South Pacific lasted from late 1970 until sometime in 1975 when they made a deal with Pan Am to drop those routes in exchange for t
60 EWRCabincrew : Our AKL flying was LAX-PPT-AKL-SYD, LAX-HNL-AKL-MEL/BNE/SYD, SFO-HNL-SYD-AKL.
61 Viscount724 : I believe it was 1993.
62 Sac : We also flew non-stop from HNL-PPT and HNL-CNS-BNE
63 EWRCabincrew : Our PPT flying was only through LAX and AKL. We never flew PPT from HNL non-stop. HA did that. We also flew HNL-NAN-SYD.
64 Sac : CO flew HNL-PPT on the DC10-10. After CO pulled out of the market HA started with the DC8. It was right around 90-91 and i don't think the service eve
65 Sac : CO flew from HNL-PPT starting on June 21, 1987. Flights operated on Sunday departing HNL 12:15 AM arriving into PPT at 5:30 AM as CO 52 - the return l
66 EWRCabincrew : They stopped that then before I transferred there in '88. I stand corrected, good to know. Thanks, Sac.
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