PlateMan From United States of America, joined exactly 6 years ago today! , 904 posts, RR: 0 Posted (5 years 4 months 1 week 22 hours ago) and read 6376 times:
Didn't see this posted so....
A CO Express jet was landing at EWR and Long Island ATC gave the pilot the frequency for Teterboro, not Newark, so they could not contact the plane. Came within less then half the standard horizontal spacing and 600 vertical feet.
DeltaAVL From United States of America, joined Mar 2007, 1893 posts, RR: 7 Reply 1, posted (5 years 4 months 1 week 22 hours ago) and read 6361 times:
Quoting PlateMan (Thread starter): A CO Express jet was landing at EWR and Long Island ATC gave the pilot the frequency for Teterboro, not Newark, so they could not contact the plane. Came within less then half the standard horizontal spacing and 600 vertical feet.
The pilot should have known what the Newark freq was, regardless of what ATC told him. You'd think the ERJ pilot would've noticed real quick that he wasn't on the Newark frequency.
PYP757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2007, 148 posts, RR: 0 Reply 3, posted (5 years 4 months 1 week 21 hours ago) and read 6248 times:
Does this really qualify as a near-miss?
Both planes were landing at EWR. They were following each other, and never really got in a position where they could have collided. Yes, horizontal separation was only 1 mile and a quarter, less than half of the minimum separation allowed, so this is a worrying incident. But calling this a near-miss sounds a bit extreme to me. Just my opinion.
Goldenshield From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 5441 posts, RR: 12 Reply 4, posted (5 years 4 months 1 week 21 hours ago) and read 6249 times:
Quoting PYP757 (Reply 3): They were following each other, and never really got in a position where they could have collided. Yes, horizontal separation was only 1 mile and a quarter, less than half of the minimum separation allowed,
I can see the headline now: "ATC FAILURE PUTS PLANE 10 MINUTES FROM IMPACTING ANOTHER"
Two all beef patties, special sauce, lettuce, cheese, pickles, onions on a sesame seed bun.
Spoken like another "expert" I suggest you fly other places in the world if you want to see scary!
Quoting PYP757 (Reply 3): Does this really qualify as a near-miss?
No, it would not be a near miss. It would be classified as loss of seperation which was the result of an operational error by the controller. Not a very big deal.
This one was a non-event, but it's really only a matter of time, the way things are going. Our controllers are the best in the world, but they've been fighting and uphill battle for years now.
Mark5388916 From United States of America, joined Aug 2007, 377 posts, RR: 0 Reply 8, posted (5 years 4 months 1 week 20 hours ago) and read 6005 times:
Sounds like a deal, when a loss of separation occurred. Plus, the Newark Tower frequencies are printed on the charts just in case this happens. Anyone know when he was able to get onto the right frequency?
Mark
I Love ONT and SNA, the good So Cal Airports! URL Removed as required by mod
PhilSquares From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 10, posted (5 years 4 months 1 week 20 hours ago) and read 5936 times:
Quoting Mark5388916 (Reply 8): Sounds like a deal, when a loss of separation occurred. Plus, the Newark Tower frequencies are printed on the charts just in case this happens. Anyone know when he was able to get onto the right frequency?
NO, it's not a big deal. Most pilots will have the next frequency pre-tuned in the VHF-1 comm head, but the controller gave him another freq. After all, there are frequency changes that aren't always published in the Jepps. There is a revision cycle to consider.
He said a deal, and if they are treating it as an operational error as the article says, he may well be right. I wasn't there, though, so I'm not gunna go pinning blame. All's well that ends well, right?
The point of a web forum is to discuss and learn more about a particular subject. IMHO, we should therefore all be open to corrections (or, in another light, the opportunity to learn something new).
PlateMan From United States of America, joined exactly 6 years ago today! , 904 posts, RR: 0 Reply 15, posted (5 years 4 months 1 week 19 hours ago) and read 5726 times:
Quoting PhilSquares (Reply 5): Spoken like another "expert" I suggest you fly other places in the world if you want to see scary!
I am no expert. I know other countries are worse but at the same time, our ATC needs help IMO. Just look at all the incidents, the controllers themselves complaining, etc.
Quoting Mir (Reply 6): Which, to be fair, is on Long Island.
PlateMan From United States of America, joined exactly 6 years ago today! , 904 posts, RR: 0 Reply 16, posted (5 years 4 months 1 week 19 hours ago) and read 5720 times:
From ABC7 NY: "Anytime two aircraft are that close in proximity to each other, it's a dangerous situation just based upon the speed that the aircrafts are moving," air traffic controller Ray Adams said.
Mark5388916 From United States of America, joined Aug 2007, 377 posts, RR: 0 Reply 17, posted (5 years 4 months 1 week 18 hours ago) and read 5699 times:
Quoting P3Orion (Reply 14): A "Deal" is controller jargon for an operational error.
Thanks! I assumed everyone speaks jargon, my apology.
Quoting PlateMan (Reply 16): From ABC7 NY:
"Anytime two aircraft are that close in proximity to each other, it's a dangerous situation just based upon the speed that the aircrafts are moving," air traffic controller Ray Adams said.
I agree to some extent, but they weren't heading towards each other as far as I can tell.
Mark
I Love ONT and SNA, the good So Cal Airports! URL Removed as required by mod
WestIndian425 From United States of America, joined May 2004, 1008 posts, RR: 2 Reply 18, posted (5 years 4 months 1 week 18 hours ago) and read 5699 times:
Quoting Mir (Reply 6): Which, to be fair, is on Long Island.
-Mir
Correct...it's in Islip, to be exact. Nice group of people.
God did not create aircraft pilots to be on the ground
Maverick623 From United States of America, joined Nov 2006, 4744 posts, RR: 6 Reply 20, posted (5 years 4 months 1 week 16 hours ago) and read 5528 times:
Quoting WestIndian425 (Reply 18): Correct...it's in Islip, to be exact. Nice group of people
Phelpsie87 From United States of America, joined Apr 2006, 498 posts, RR: 2 Reply 21, posted (5 years 4 months 1 week 15 hours ago) and read 5503 times:
Maverick623 From United States of America, joined Nov 2006, 4744 posts, RR: 6 Reply 22, posted (5 years 4 months 1 week 15 hours ago) and read 5497 times:
Quoting Phelpsie87 (Reply 21): Hmm, I wonder if this deal took place before or after "The Zone" and that "River Dance Mother F**ker" got in the fight...
Nah, it was a shift change and Zone thought it'd be funny to tell Feather Boy that ExpressJet was a TEB arrival...
DeltaAVL From United States of America, joined Mar 2007, 1893 posts, RR: 7 Reply 23, posted (5 years 4 months 1 week 10 hours ago) and read 5345 times:
Quoting N766UA (Reply 7): Extremely, huh? Alright, if you say so...
Yes, American ATC is extremely good, compared to many other countries around the world. You prove that assertion by stating...
Quoting N766UA (Reply 7): Our controllers are the best in the world
Indeed they are.
"We break, We bend, With hand in hand, When hope is gone, Just hang on." -Guster
Jetblueguy22 From United States of America, joined Nov 2007, 2021 posts, RR: 1 Reply 24, posted (5 years 4 months 1 week 10 hours ago) and read 5335 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW FORUM MODERATOR
Quoting Goldenshield (Reply 4): ATC FAILURE PUTS PLANE 10 MINUTES FROM IMPACTING ANOTHER
Yeah than the press has a bunch of "experts"on telling how bad this could have been.
Quoting N766UA (Reply 7): Extremely, huh? Alright, if you say so...
The state of the US ATC is good compared to other countries but with how many planes the system handles is too much. It isn't bad but it isn't good.
Blue
Professor Foltz: You push down on that yolk, the houses get bigger, you pull back on the yolk, the houses get bigger.
25 DeltaAVL: The amount of planes the system handles isn't ATC's fault. Considering the unimaginable number of flights US ATC has to deal with each day, and with
26 N62NA: This report: http://wcbstv.com/local/newark.airport.continental.2.632715.html paints a much different picture: As the planes came in for landings on W
27 DeltaAVL: A fully loaded ExpressJet ERJ is 50 pax max. Hundreds of passengers? Not quite.
28 Mir: Not that Senator Schumer has ever let facts about the aviation industry get in the way of his speeches. -Mir
29 FlyMeToTheMoon: I hear the Swiss ATC are pretty good!
Sponsor Message: 
From United States of America, joined exactly 6 years ago today! 
, 904 posts, 
From , joined Dec 1969, posts, 
From Philippines, joined Mar 2004, 1181 posts, 
Printer friendly format 
