LAXintl From United States, joined May 2000, 12144 posts, RR: 22 Posted (1 year 10 months 2 weeks 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 4143 times:
United will discontinue its daily LAX-SAL A320 service with last Southbound service on February 29th. The discontinuation is tied into TACA increasing its own California services later in the year with whom UA has a broad code-share relationship with.
This had been a long running United route having acquired the rights from Pan Am following its shutdown in 1991.
I wonder if UA's LAX-GUA service can be far behind, particularly if TA can increase its GUA-California similarly to their SAL hub schedule plans.
[Edited 2008-01-20 09:08:46]
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
Anetter123 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 2, posted (1 year 10 months 2 weeks 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 3777 times:
Another Latin American destination off the route maps for UA.
If they can still make some money w/ codesharing as oppose to using their own metal, then this makes sense because they can use the aircraft elsewhere. I do feel for the San Salvador employees that will be affected by this.
Until this day I'm still shocked they couldn't make SJO work from ANY of their hubs.
Lets see how long GUA will last, especially with the competition AND NK and their ULCC fares.
Two latin american routes I'm surprised UA was never aggressive with is EZE or GRU from LAX. LA flys nonstop to SCL and carries traffic to EZE. They applied for the routes a few years ago, but not sure if they were ever granted DOT authority. If they ever jumped on these 2 destinations nonstop from LAX I bet they'd make a nice profit and compliment the current ORD/IAD routes that go there. I understand they may not have aircraft available for this and even if they did they'd probably route it elsewhere.
Cubsrule From United States, joined May 2004, 13561 posts, RR: 14 Reply 4, posted (1 year 10 months 2 weeks 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 3759 times:
Quoting Anetter123 (Reply 2): Two latin american routes I'm surprised UA was never aggressive with is EZE or GRU from LAX. LA flys nonstop to SCL and carries traffic to EZE.
Both of those routes are pretty long for a 763 (some 500 miles longer than UA's longest ever 763 route)... though I think the plane could do it, that may be part of the problem. Of course, there are bilateral issues in both cases as well (though it looks like US-Argentina is going to be de facto open skies before too long) as well as UA's general lack of commitment to Latin America.
MAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 25874 posts, RR: 77 Reply 5, posted (1 year 10 months 2 weeks 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 3745 times:
There are no issues restricting new flights to Argentina. There are plenty of open frequencies and starting next January there will be almost as many unused frequencies as there are used.
N1120A From United States, joined Dec 2003, 23565 posts, RR: 88 Reply 6, posted (1 year 10 months 2 weeks 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 3710 times:
Stupid, stupid, stupid. You are the largest carrier in the city with the largest Salvadoran population outside of El Salvador. Big f'ing deal if you are partnered up with TACA. UA and LH are joined at the hip and UA still started LAX-FRA. Terrible move.
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
OH-LGA From United States, joined Oct 1999, 1347 posts, RR: 30 Reply 7, posted (1 year 10 months 2 weeks 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 3653 times:
Quoting N1120A (Reply 6): Stupid, stupid, stupid. You are the largest carrier in the city with the largest Salvadoran population outside of El Salvador. Big f'ing deal if you are partnered up with TACA. UA and LH are joined at the hip and UA still started LAX-FRA. Terrible move.
LAX-SAL has a fair amount of VFR traffic, which I see a lot of from the origin of UA805 in SFO. VFR usually is restricted to low yield, price sensitive portion of passenger revenue, while subsequently taking a large portion of the load traffic. Because United is restricted to their current fleet at the moment, they are constantly looking at ways to optimize their route network by maximizing yields, as explained by other route reductions (such as the axing of ORD-OAK). In addition, although UA is axing the route now, it could very well be restarted in the future. That they can continue to "serve" the market through codeshares on TACA metal, as well as the ability to issue boarding cards on TA flights via EDIFACT make the change for the travelling public easier to bear. Certainly, not a decision taken lightly I'm sure.
UA started LAX-FRA because LH wanted to redeploy the LAX-FRA aircraft to another route pairing. You'll notice that LH is down to 1x daily with their aircraft instead of their previous 2x daily frequency. It's an excellent example of close cooperation between alliance partners.
Head in the clouds... yet feet planted firmly on the ground.
NK dropped LAX-GUA already. Had a terrible loads on the route primarily result of its ULLC model and being focused on internet distribution, something that does not work in LA's Central American community travel which is tightly controlled by a few large travel agencies/consolidators.
I'm sure from a dollars and cents point of view, UA feels it will benefit more by focusing sales on TA's SFO, OAK and hefty LAX flight schedule instead.
While we can question the wisdom of the cut for the sake of operating your own equipment if this benefits UA financially why not? I'm sure part of the decision had to do with the fact that the single current flight must pay for quite some staff numbers in San Salvador which would not be required by focusing on the TA codeshares instead.
Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 1): I know AA is adjusting its SAL schedule in April (when they start DFW-SAL)... are they increasing their LAX service?
No not increasing, but actually decreasing somewhat. Instead of the current red-eye 757, the flight becomes an early morning 738.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
Cubsrule From United States, joined May 2004, 13561 posts, RR: 14 Reply 9, posted (1 year 10 months 2 weeks 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 3568 times:
Quoting LAXintl (Reply 8): No not increasing, but actually decreasing somewhat. Instead of the current red-eye 757, the flight becomes an early morning 738.
Just out of curiousity, have you seen something stating that besides American's schedules themselves? I'm not so sure they're accurate, as they haven't yet loaded the DFW-SAL flight.
Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 5): There are no issues restricting new flights to Argentina. There are plenty of open frequencies and starting next January there will be almost as many unused frequencies as there are used.
N587NK From United States, joined Jun 2005, 281 posts, RR: 1 Reply 10, posted (1 year 10 months 2 weeks 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 3547 times:
Quoting LAXintl (Reply 8): NK dropped LAX-GUA already. Had a terrible loads on the route
Yes it was dropped but not becuase of loads. I worked this flight all the time, usually went out full. The company says it was dropped because it was too expensive to expensive to overfly Mexico. Im not sure the real reason for dropping it but I can tell you, it certainly wasnt because of terrible loads. Usually it went out with 144 pax. The fares were not exactly cheap either.
Due to our ongoing efforts to reduce costs, the light at the end of the tunnel has been turned off until further notice.
LAXintl From United States, joined May 2000, 12144 posts, RR: 22 Reply 11, posted (1 year 10 months 2 weeks 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 3517 times:
Quoting N587NK (Reply 10): Yes it was dropped but not becuase of loads.
Well according to LAWA landing reports Spirits GUA flight stats were far from 'full'. In addition I know near all ethnic agencies refused to sell Spirit while the carrier managed to get very negative press in the Spanish media from the incident of a LAX staff member trying to hit up passenger for under the table money.
Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 9): Just out of curiousity, have you seen something stating that besides American's schedules themselves?
Per res systems, AA's LAX-SAL schedule changes April 7th to an morning departure with 738s which is coincidentally the same day of their proposed DFW-SAL launch date.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
Cubsrule From United States, joined May 2004, 13561 posts, RR: 14 Reply 12, posted (1 year 10 months 2 weeks 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 3514 times:
Quoting LAXintl (Reply 11):
Per res systems, AA's LAX-SAL schedule changes April 7th to an morning departure with 738s which is coincidentally the same day of their proposed DFW-SAL launch date.
Yeah; it's weird, though, as despite that change they haven't yet loaded DFW-SAL. That's why I was wondering if you had seen something else.
N587NK From United States, joined Jun 2005, 281 posts, RR: 1 Reply 13, posted (1 year 10 months 2 weeks 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 3478 times:
Well I worked those flights from the time they started till we ended that route. Very rarely was there a light load on the flights I was on. And I usually did it twice a week.
Due to our ongoing efforts to reduce costs, the light at the end of the tunnel has been turned off until further notice.
SJOtoLIR From Costa Rica, joined Jul 2007, 1864 posts, RR: 5 Reply 14, posted (1 year 10 months 2 weeks 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 3310 times:
Quoting LAXintl (Thread starter): United will discontinue its daily LAX-SAL A320 service with last Southbound service on February 29th. The discontinuation is tied into TACA increasing its own California services later in the year with whom UA has a broad code-share relationship with.
It seems like UA does not care to serve Central America anymore using their own frames. The flights that remain are UA LAX-GUA and UA ORD-LIR.
Nonetheless, all the operations supplied by TA to the USA from Central America are currently code-sharing with UA, except TA SAL-OAK.
The code-share deal TA/UA is extensive through the USA and Canada. However, I said many times that TACA is not exploiting it properly nowadays, especially for those connections through IAD and ORD.
.
Quoting Anetter123 (Reply 2): Until this day I'm still shocked they couldn't make SJO work from ANY of their hubs.
UA ORD-SJO was changed few years ago to the seasonal UA ORD-LIR.
TA makes all the non-stop flights from SJO and heading to the USA on behalf of UA: SJO-MIA, SJO-JFK and SJO-LAX.
Regards.
M180up From El Salvador, joined May 2006, 400 posts, RR: 8 Reply 16, posted (1 year 10 months 2 weeks 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 3151 times:
I cannot believe we are losing service by another airline, we hardly see new service operated by any other airline than TA, and right now they have too much of market share that if you check fares from SAL and fares from other airports in Central America we have the highest fares....
Outsourced US Airways Baggage/Reservations/Web Support Supervisor/Trainer And Proud Of It :)!
LACA773 From United States, joined Nov 2004, 2032 posts, RR: 3 Reply 17, posted (1 year 10 months 2 weeks 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 3119 times:
This is a shame UA is cutting this flight. Financially and with things so tight within their structure, maybe it's a smart move for the time being, but still. I thought this was a route that did very well for UA? Am I wrong?
What was the main reason they axed LAX-SJO?
Does LAX-GUA do well?
Maybe we'll see DL pick this up? Just a thought.
Quoting OH-LGA (Reply 7): other route reductions (such as the axing of ORD-OAK). In addition, although UA is axing the route now, it could very well be restarted in the future. That they can
Is this true? Is their a thread on this as I wasn't able to find anything on it.
Vincewy From Taiwan Region, joined Oct 2005, 622 posts, RR: 0 Reply 20, posted (1 year 10 months 2 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 2738 times:
With the amount of morning arrivals and departures out of SAL, shouldn't IB add a red eye flight from MAD (and turn around by noon)? I know there're from different alliances, but this flight will connect with all the neighboring states/cities.
I miss the old days of TA using 767, one of the best looking livery for 767.
DesertAir From Mexico, joined Jan 2006, 1037 posts, RR: 0 Reply 22, posted (1 year 10 months 2 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 2553 times:
Quoting Vincewy (Reply 20): I miss the old days of TA using 767, one of the best looking livery for 767.
In 1991 I flew on a TA 767 betweeen GUA and LAX. Coach service included a FA pouring wine during dinner service. I recall, at one time, the UA LAX-GUA flight continued onto San Jose, CR.
Deltaflyertoo From United States, joined Nov 2000, 1291 posts, RR: 1 Reply 23, posted (1 year 10 months 2 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 2007 times:
Not to get off topic but would someone please clarify UAL cutting ORD-OAK. I too searched and can't find anything on this, IMO this is a huge route cut that needs its own thread....info?????
DC8FanJet From United States, joined Aug 2006, 243 posts, RR: 0 Reply 24, posted (1 year 10 months 2 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 1919 times:
Traffic and yield aren't always the same thing. VFR traffic is very price sensitive, and "flag" carriers tend to offer very low fares. Full airplanes don't mean a thing if the fares are too low, and there are better options.
Both routes have been around a long time with UA having acquired the rights after Pan Am in 1991.
Suspect however with near $100 barrel fuel, tight aircraft availability, and existence of a strong code-share partner that already offers multiple daily flights it made more money for UA to rely its partner then operate the flight themselves. As I also mentioned UA has its own staff in SAL which must all be supported on the daily flight which I'm sure was another reason in the equation.
Quoting LaxAgent (Reply 18): Does this mean TACA is going to add more flights?
That is what I've heard as we move into the summer. Suspect to begin with TA would make its 3-4x weekly 3rd SAL-LAX flight daily for sure with possibility of a 4th frequency around the weekends if not seeing more A321s.
I'm sure UA is encouraging them, at least to associate member if not a full star member.
Quoting Deltaflyertoo (Reply 23): would someone please clarify UAL cutting ORD-OAK. I too searched and can't find anything on this, IMO this is a huge route cut that needs its own thread....info?????
Ends Feb1st. Would not call this a "huge cut" by any means. Its 2x A319s service that basically heavily competed against 5-6 SWA flights to MDW on the route. Both OAK and ORD remain in the route network and the Bay Area can be reached via dozen of SFO or SJC flights, or via DEN if one insists on flying to OAK.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
26 Aer: I guess it will be interesting to see what happens to GUA.
27 N1120A: I don't really see how. You don't have the same easy connectivity and you are taking a very small piece of the potential pie. I don't think it necess
28 Platinumfoota: Sad to see this flight being dropped, most people like the UA service over TACA. Another reason why it was drop was that the flight required extra att
29 NWAESC: I'm pretty sure as of 2001 it did... I think the tag-on was dropped shortly thereafter????
30 N1120A: That means even more profit potential, and yet another reason this cancellation is poorly thought out.
31 SJOtoLIR: Speaking about the business relationship with other members involved in such alliance, TA only gets a strong code-share deal with UA. Last year, TA s
32 LACA773: As always, thanks for the information LAXintl. I apreicate it. Who do you think might pickup UA's discontinued service? DL? AS?
33 LAXintl: Doubt AS - they have not ventured into CenAm before and I dont see them pursuing an ethnic market like SAL, but instead more likely mixed tourist mar
34 SJOtoLIR: San Salvador - Los Angeles. Current schedule: UA 806....SAL 07:30.....LAX 10:56.......Daily...........320.......Code-share with TA. TA 522....SAL 09:4
35 Platinumfoota: I have not flown TA since 96. Is there service superior to UA?
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