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China Airlines Firms A350 Order  
User currently offlineFlying-Tiger From Germany, joined Aug 1999, 4160 posts, RR: 36
Posted (6 years 6 months 1 week 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 7480 times:



Quote:
PARIS, Jan 22 (Reuters) - European plane maker Airbus, a unit of EADS (EAD.PA: Quote, Profile, Research), on Tuesday said it has signed orders with China Airlines (2610.TW: Quote, Profile, Research), Taiwan's largest carrier, for the purchase of 14 A350-900 planes with an option for six more.

Airbus had signed a letter of intent with China Airlines in December.

http://www.reuters.com/article/companyNews/idUSPAC00914420080122

What a start this year for Airbus...


Flown: A319/320/321,A332/3,A380,AT4,AT7,B732/3/4/5/7/8,B742/4,B762/763,B772,CR2,CR7,ER4,E70,E75,F50/70,M11,L15,S20
57 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineKappel From Suriname, joined Jul 2005, 3533 posts, RR: 17
Reply 1, posted (6 years 6 months 1 week 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 7473 times:



Quoting Flying-Tiger (Thread starter):
Quote:
PARIS, Jan 22 (Reuters) - European plane maker Airbus, a unit of EADS (EAD.PA: Quote, Profile, Research), on Tuesday said it has signed orders with China Airlines (2610.TW: Quote, Profile, Research), Taiwan's largest carrier, for the purchase of 14 A350-900 planes with an option for six more.

Airbus had signed a letter of intent with China Airlines in December.

http://www.reuters.com/article/companyNews/idUSPAC00914420080122

What a start this year for Airbus...

Wow, I missed that LOI. That's what you get for taking a vacation. Big grin Nice win for Airbus, CI is an airline that buys from both, so this order could have gone either way.

Any updates on a CI VLA order? They are a prime candidate for the 748, but maybe the a380 has a chance now, at least there is cockpit commonality between the a350 and a380.



L1011,733,734,73G,738,743,744,752,763,772,77W,DC855,DC863,DC930,DC950,MD11,MD88,306,319,320,321,343,346,ARJ85,CR7,E195
User currently offlinePM From Germany, joined Feb 2005, 6868 posts, RR: 63
Reply 2, posted (6 years 6 months 1 week 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 7446 times:

TAM on Monday, China Airlines on Tuesday. Who'll firm up tomorrow?!  bigthumbsup 

User currently offlineLeskova From Germany, joined Oct 2003, 6075 posts, RR: 70
Reply 3, posted (6 years 6 months 1 week 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 7449 times:



Quoting Kappel (Reply 1):
Any updates on a CI VLA order? They are a prime candidate for the 748, but maybe the a380 has a chance now, at least there is cockpit commonality between the a350 and a380.

I recall that there was some talk that whoever won the medium-sized aircraft competition would not be selected for the VLA...



Smile - it confuses people!
User currently offlineScouseflyer From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2006, 3374 posts, RR: 9
Reply 4, posted (6 years 6 months 1 week 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 7414 times:

With the current rate of sales for the XWB it will shortly overtake sales of the A340 and become the thrid best selling Airbus widebody. That's not bad for 5 years until EIS - I have a sneaking suspicion that it may overtake the A300/310's total of 821 by the time then.

User currently offlineScbriml From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2003, 12390 posts, RR: 47
Reply 5, posted (6 years 6 months 1 week 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 7382 times:
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Wow, that was quick! I didn't expect that one to be firmed up for a few months.

Quoting Flying-Tiger (Thread starter):
What a start this year for Airbus...

Given that many expected Airbus to end up with nearly 1,700 orders last year, I suspect most of January's orders are "left-overs" that Airbus couldn't get completed in time.

Quoting Leskova (Reply 3):
I recall that there was some talk that whoever won the medium-sized aircraft competition would not be selected for the VLA...

I believe you are correct. However, I also believe that CI's senior management has changed since that statement was made, so it's far from clear if it still applies.



Time flies like an arrow, but fruit flies like a banana!
User currently offlineKappel From Suriname, joined Jul 2005, 3533 posts, RR: 17
Reply 6, posted (6 years 6 months 1 week 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 7365 times:



Quoting Leskova (Reply 3):
I recall that there was some talk that whoever won the medium-sized aircraft competition would not be selected for the VLA...

I suspected as much, that CI would like to keep the mixed widebody fleet. That's why I said they are a prime candidate for the 748. I Guess Boeing can live with that...:D

Quoting PM (Reply 2):
TAM on Monday, China Airlines on Tuesday. Who'll firm up tomorrow?!


Well, there are still plenty of airlines that need to firm up their commitments, so who knows. I definitely think the January order sheet will be quite impressive.  bigthumbsup 

Quoting Scouseflyer (Reply 4):
With the current rate of sales for the XWB it will shortly overtake sales of the A340 and become the thrid best selling Airbus widebody.

Amazing isn't it? It shows how far Airbus has come, when the a330/a340 was launched, they still had to prove themselves as a viable alternative to Boeing and MDD (especially in the long-haul business of course, the a320 was already selling well), and they were only starting to complete their line-up, from narrowbody to widebody.



L1011,733,734,73G,738,743,744,752,763,772,77W,DC855,DC863,DC930,DC950,MD11,MD88,306,319,320,321,343,346,ARJ85,CR7,E195
User currently offlinePM From Germany, joined Feb 2005, 6868 posts, RR: 63
Reply 7, posted (6 years 6 months 1 week 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 7314 times:



Quoting Kappel (Reply 6):
Well, there are still plenty of airlines that need to firm up their commitments, so who knows.

DAE? A Libyan airline or two? Vietnam?

(I'm going to believe the Aer Lingus order when I see it!  Angry )

Quoting Scbriml (Reply 5):
However, I also believe that CI's senior management has changed since that statement was made

I've heard the same thing. It does seem an extraordinary thing to have said (if it was ever true). Firstly, it throws away whatever bargaining power they might have had and, secondly, it almost seems an explicit acknowledgement that the order is political.


User currently offlineWINGS From Portugal, joined May 2005, 2831 posts, RR: 68
Reply 8, posted (6 years 6 months 1 week 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 7297 times:



Quoting Flying-Tiger (Thread starter):

http://www.reuters.com/article/companyNews/idUSPAC00914420080122

What a start this year for Airbus...

Indeed, a wonderful start to the year, especially for the number of widebodies ordered.  Smile

Regards,
Wings



Aviation Is A Passion.
User currently offlineScouseflyer From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2006, 3374 posts, RR: 9
Reply 9, posted (6 years 6 months 1 week 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 7280 times:



Quoting PM (Reply 7):
DAE? A Libyan airline or two? Vietnam?

Or Groupo Marsans


User currently offlineChiad From Norway, joined May 2006, 1131 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (6 years 6 months 1 week 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 7280 times:



Quoting Kappel (Reply 6):
I suspected as much, that CI would like to keep the mixed widebody fleet. That's why I said they are a prime candidate for the 748. I Guess Boeing can live with that...:D

You know .... I'm probably wrong, but I just cant see CI choosing the B748i over the A380.
Maybe if it was a year ago, but now .... with the A380 performing better than anticipated and the production slowly increasing to 4 per month I just doubt that it will happen.
But time will tell.

How many orders Airbus has firmed so far this year?


User currently offlineWorldrider From Switzerland, joined Nov 2007, 301 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (6 years 6 months 1 week 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 7267 times:



Quoting Leskova (Reply 3):
call that there was some talk that whoever won the medium-sized aircraft competition would not be selected for the VLA...

they still haven't selected a 332 replacement..the 380 has a chance. next order? let's say..Kingsfisher


User currently offlineChiad From Norway, joined May 2006, 1131 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (6 years 6 months 1 week 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 7222 times:



Quoting Chiad (Reply 10):
How many orders Airbus has firmed so far this year?

I looked through Airbus website and came to these numbers:

AWAS: 75 A32x
TAM: 22 A350 XWB
TAM: 4 A330-200
TAM: 20 additional A320
China Airlines: 14 A350-900

Total: 40 Widebodies, 95 Narrowbodies.

Welcome 2008.

 champagne 


User currently offlineBrenintw From Taiwan, joined Jul 2006, 1610 posts, RR: 1
Reply 13, posted (6 years 6 months 1 week 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 7195 times:



Quoting Worldrider (Reply 11):
they still haven't selected a 332 replacement

FWIW, CI doesn't fly the 332, only the 333 (you can see the fleet here: http://www.china-airlines.com/en/about/about.htm)

The A380 is, IMO, very unlikely for CI -- it's simply too big for the current market, and growth prospects ex-TPE are not so rosy. As has been said before, really the only routes that could support an A380 would be the TPE - PVG/PEK routes. However, most Taiwanese businessmen (who would be the major customers on those routes) would prefer a direct flight between TPE and an airport closer to their operations scattered throughout the PRC -- routes a 783 might actually be perfect for.

I think that the 748 is very likely for CI to replace its 744's.



I'm tired of the A vs. B sniping. Neither make planes that shed wings randomly!
User currently offlineScouseflyer From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2006, 3374 posts, RR: 9
Reply 14, posted (6 years 6 months 1 week 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 7134 times:



Quoting Chiad (Reply 12):
AWAS: 75 A32x
TAM: 22 A350 XWB
TAM: 4 A330-200
TAM: 20 additional A320
China Airlines: 14 A350-900

Total: 40 Widebodies, 95 Narrowbodies.

There's also:

DAE - 100 (comments from Airbus suggests this is firm)
Grupo Marsans - 61 (same as above)
Vietnam - 30 (firmed in december)
Libyan - 15 (firmed in december)
Afriqiyah - 6 (firmed in december)

and also the CASC outstanding orders for 110 A320, 40 A330 and 20 XWBs

Basically Jan is a very good month for Airbus and the A350


User currently offlineWorldrider From Switzerland, joined Nov 2007, 301 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (6 years 6 months 1 week 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 7086 times:



Quoting Brenintw (Reply 13):
As has been said before, really the only routes that could support an A380 would be the TPE - PVG/PEK

are you sure? what about HKG-TPE-SFO, HKG-TPE-YVR, AMS-BKK (they're taking AF/KLM passengers..)..HKG-TPE-JFK, the 748 would be capable aswell, a conservative choice, more..politically correct though.
just my opinion, you know the TPE business better than me, being on the field.

Quoting Brenintw (Reply 13):
CI doesn't fly the 332, only the 333

ok, thanks, i forgot that one.


User currently offlineChiad From Norway, joined May 2006, 1131 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (6 years 6 months 1 week 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 7044 times:



Quoting Scouseflyer (Reply 14):
Vietnam - 30 (firmed in december)
Libyan - 15 (firmed in december)
Afriqiyah - 6 (firmed in december)

So .. these will be in the January 2008 order book?

Quoting Scouseflyer (Reply 14):
DAE - 100 (comments from Airbus suggests this is firm)
Grupo Marsans - 61 (same as above)

I'm sure they will come, however they might not be firm for January.
We'll see!


User currently offlineColumba From Germany, joined Dec 2004, 7057 posts, RR: 4
Reply 17, posted (6 years 6 months 1 week 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 7043 times:



Quoting Brenintw (Reply 13):
I think that the 748 is very likely for CI to replace its 744's.

They were always rumored to order the 747-8I even before LH did, so lets wait and see.



It will forever be a McDonnell Douglas MD 80 , Boeing MD 80 sounds so wrong
User currently offlineBrenintw From Taiwan, joined Jul 2006, 1610 posts, RR: 1
Reply 18, posted (6 years 6 months 1 week 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 7023 times:

Quoting Worldrider (Reply 15):
are you sure? what about HKG-TPE-SFO, HKG-TPE-YVR, AMS-BKK (they're taking AF/KLM passengers..)..HKG-TPE-JFK

Too much competition from the likes of CX -- CI would have to offer cut-throat prices to lure the (traditionally) high-yielding business passengers from CX's non-stop options.

AMS - BKK also has a lot of competition in BR, TG, KL and I'm sure others.

I don't believe CI is in a position to lure many HKG business travelers away from CX ... CX's product, pricing (ex HKG), scheduling, connections and service are simply too superior.

I'm sure CI could fill an A380 on any of those routes, but it certainly wouldn't be a profitable venture -- CI would have to offer below-break-even pricing to fill the A380.

A 748 makes more sense (to me) from many angles -- but that might be why I'm not working in airline procurement 

Once direct flights between TPE and the PRC become a reality, the traffic TPE - HKG will plummet.

[Edited 2008-01-22 01:37:10]


I'm tired of the A vs. B sniping. Neither make planes that shed wings randomly!
User currently offlineDeaphen From India, joined Jul 2005, 1425 posts, RR: 1
Reply 19, posted (6 years 6 months 1 week 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 6997 times:

How odd, is this a new Airbus strategy to announce orders randomly and not at airshows? BTW which are the major other airshows coming up? Singapore will be good for Airbus and Boeing, i have a feeling !


I want every single airport and airplane in India to be on A.net!
User currently offlinePM From Germany, joined Feb 2005, 6868 posts, RR: 63
Reply 20, posted (6 years 6 months 1 week 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 6977 times:



Quoting Deaphen (Reply 19):
BTW which are the major other airshows coming up? Singapore will be good for Airbus and Boeing, i have a feeling !

Farnborough in July.


User currently offlineKappel From Suriname, joined Jul 2005, 3533 posts, RR: 17
Reply 21, posted (6 years 6 months 1 week 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 6977 times:



Quoting Brenintw (Reply 18):
AMS - BKK also has a lot of competition in BR, TG, KL and I'm sure others.

TG doesn't fly AMS-BKK. They have been saying for years they are plannig to, even said it would be with the a346, but so far it has come to nothing.  Angry

Quoting Chiad (Reply 10):
You know .... I'm probably wrong, but I just cant see CI choosing the B748i over the A380.
Maybe if it was a year ago, but now .... with the A380 performing better than anticipated and the production slowly increasing to 4 per month I just doubt that it will happen.
But time will tell.

Another reason the 748 is favoured with CI IMHO is their large 744F fleet. It can be easily replaced with the 748, keeping one type for pax VLA and Freighter.



L1011,733,734,73G,738,743,744,752,763,772,77W,DC855,DC863,DC930,DC950,MD11,MD88,306,319,320,321,343,346,ARJ85,CR7,E195
User currently offlineScouseflyer From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2006, 3374 posts, RR: 9
Reply 22, posted (6 years 6 months 1 week 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 6909 times:



Quoting Chiad (Reply 16):
So .. these will be in the January 2008 order book?

you can never be sure with Airbus and their announcements, but I'd be pretty confident about the DAE one and reasonably confident on the Gm one.


User currently offlineScbriml From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2003, 12390 posts, RR: 47
Reply 23, posted (6 years 6 months 1 week 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 6554 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

PR now on EADS' website
http://www.eads.com/1024/en/pressdb/...irbus_a350_xwb_china_airlines.html



Time flies like an arrow, but fruit flies like a banana!
User currently offlineZeke From Hong Kong, joined Dec 2006, 8865 posts, RR: 75
Reply 24, posted (6 years 6 months 1 week 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 6280 times:

"comfortable layout of 327 seats"

Anyone able to work out what seat pitch that gives in the -900 ?



We are addicted to our thoughts. We cannot change anything if we cannot change our thinking – Santosh Kalwar
25 BRxxx : I get a feeling it's not going to be comfortable. I would have thought to make seat pitches wider, they can only fit 270~280 seats. But since they ar
26 Anonms : Likely to be either the Dynasty Supreme from the 332 or a new lie-flat. If they go the lie-flat route, I'm hoping they go the CX or the EY route with
27 Trex8 : they put 313 (36J, 277Y)on a A333 already with 32in Y pitch and I think their J is 50or so (its definitely less than the 60 on their A343), the A359
28 Trex8 : 10 years ago the 744 cabins were CI 18/93/300 411 total QF 16/60/330 406 total BA 18/55/332 405 total CX 18/67/313 398 total SQ 16/65/316 397 total C
29 FlyingHippo : CI is planning a major overhual (major overdue!) of their 744 interiors starting in 2009. IIRC, there will be two configurations - a 2-class (C/Y) con
30 Zeke : Thanks !
31 Anonms : The fate of regular cross-strait flights hinges on the March 22 election. It will happen, but "when" is the key question. If Green wins, then it's an
32 Trex8 : IIRC Zeke had pointed out previously that A333 flights to Australia would need etops for part of the routing, for that matter wouldn't their 737 flig
33 Post contains links FlyingHippo : Actually... not really... CI would only need ETOPS 60 to reach the following cities in NA that might be served by A359: JFK, YVR, SEA, SFO and if the
34 Anonms : Oh, oops, I wasn't aware of that. I thought they used their A343 for Australia flights, though.
35 Trex8 : they did till the about a year ago when they got enough A333s
36 Post contains images Kappel : Don't forget KL, who STILL have 420 seats on their 744's. And the less said about KL's new 77W's the better
37 Post contains links Trex8 : http://www.china-airlines.com/en/newsen/newsen000438.htm 36J/291Y in A359 vs 36/277 in A333 they have 36 rows Y in the A333, with 9 across now on a A3
38 Anonms : No, I'm guessing they'll have a true lie-flat business class that takes up more space, therefore there only being 14 more Y seats. That or slightly be
39 Worldrider : i don't think CI has problems to fill up their 744s today, the 748 is not big enough for growth, unless we come to an worldwide economic crisis a mix
40 BRxxx : Mainland China. PRC=People's Republic of China.
41 Worldrider : on AMS-BKK, TG and KL (KL and AF code share with CI) are not serving the route, BR is using a 744 Combi am i wrong?
42 Worldrider : thanks "BR" and good morning, it's getting late here in GVA..
43 Anonms : Indeed, CI doesn't have a problem filling up their 744s. But the question is can they fill a A388, something that, as much as I love CI, I doubt.
44 Trex8 : if reports from SQs flights are true, and the operating costs of a A380 aren't much different to a 744, they don't need to try fill up those A380s, b
45 Brenintw : KL flies AMS - BKK - TPE on its own metal -- usually a 74M. At one time KL had 74M's with "KLM Asia" livery specifically for the TPE flights, but thi
46 Boeing7E7 : If that is true then good God what a cash cow.
47 Paomien : the only route I can really think of that would have no problem filling an A388 would be the TPE-LAX-TPE route ... the JFK route with a 744 is full q
48 Anonms : They could probably fill TPE-SFO-TPE as well. Those run once daily only, but those flights are always packed in Y and J.
49 Trex8 : what about YVR and AMS?
50 Post contains images Kappel : Really? I didn't know this. How many were there originally and how many are left? I can't say I'll miss this livery
51 Post contains images Astuteman : Indeed, where the demand is there, this is the A380's greatest asset. If I recall correctly, the comments from SQ indicate that they are finding the
52 Trex8 : just dug out a cabin layout of the original A350 I had (it came from a link to an Airbus presentation from some thread probably 2 years or more back).
53 RayChuang : I wonder why CI wants the A350-900 unless it's primarily for routes to Europe. They need something as big as the 747-400 for routes to SFO and LAX, gi
54 Anonms : A359s are to replace the fleet of A343s and take over medium/long-haul A333 routes, and then the remaining 2 A359s are for future expansion, according
55 Trex8 : maybe they mean it will be 15 years old when replaced, the first was delivered in 01, the last in 03 they say they will replace 6 A333s on the longer
56 Worldrider : when i took CI to YVR, it was in feb/march 2006,return, their 744 were fully packed.. from AMS CI is the only company providing non-stop to BKK excep
57 Trex8 : I agree any of their transpac flights could do with a A380 esp LAX and SFO. With a double daily to LAX and daily to SFO, thats at least 6 planes. The
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