Sponsor Message:
Civil Aviation Forum
My Starred Topics | Profile | New Topic | Forum Index | Help | Search 
Varig MX (was/is?) A Mess  
User currently offlinePHKLM From Northern Mariana Islands, joined Dec 2005, 1198 posts, RR: 2
Posted (6 years 11 months 1 week 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 2646 times:

According to http://www.luchtvaartnieuws.nl/news/?ID=24259 a Boeing 767 that now operates for Jetairfly - the Belgium arm of TUI Fly- that was formerly operated by VARIG Brazil is a maintenance nightmare.
The plane is badly maintained and hence goes MX very frequently. Even on the ferry flight it needed to make a precautionary landing.
Finnair has the same experience with the ex-VARIG M11, it seems to be more in the MX hangar than in the air.
For the sake of the safety of pax I hope VARIG got it's MX department sorted out after the problems of 1,5 year ago.

23 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineWINGS From Portugal, joined May 2005, 2831 posts, RR: 68
Reply 1, posted (6 years 11 months 1 week 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 2606 times:



Quoting PHKLM (Thread starter):
According to http://www.luchtvaartnieuws.nl/news/?ID=24259 a Boeing 767 that now operates for Jetairfly - the Belgium arm of TUI Fly- that was formerly operated by VARIG Brazil is a maintenance nightmare.
The plane is badly maintained and hence goes MX very frequently. Even on the ferry flight it needed to make a precautionary landing.
Finnair has the same experience with the ex-VARIG M11, it seems to be more in the MX hangar than in the air.
For the sake of the safety of pax I hope VARIG got it's MX department sorted out after the problems of 1,5 year ago.

In November 2005 TAP Portugal assumed the shareholding control of the Company, and increased their position to 90 percent in April 2007. I'm confident that TAP will work hard to improve VEM's standards to those at TAP Maintenance & Engineering, located in Lisbon.

TAP reinforces equity in VEM

Apr/2007

Lisbon, April 13, 2007 - TAP Portugal purchased from “Geocapital” the shares held by the latter in “Reaching Force”, thus becoming the sole shareholder of this company, which currently holds 90 per cent equity in VEM Maintenance & Engineering.

TAP was able to succeed the operation by exercising its option right as established in the original contract, while increasing, in parallel, the share-capital of VEM in 24 Million EUR, therefore empowering the Brazilian MRO with the adequate financial structure to carry on its Recuperation Plan already going on.

With the present operation, TAP is clearly strengthening its bet on VEM M&E, which, according to Mr. Jorge Sobral, Executive Board Member of TAP M&E and Chairman of VEM as well, is expected to reach break even in 2008.

“The excellent entente and cordial relationship between Geocapital and TAP all along the way their partnership was in force”, stated Mr. Jorge Sobral, “made it possible to develop negotiations in a fully harmonised atmosphere. This would ultimately lead to the acquisition of Geocapital’s equity in Reaching Force by TAP.”


Regards,
Wings



Aviation Is A Passion.
User currently offlineSBGLexpat From Brazil, joined Oct 2007, 64 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (6 years 11 months 1 week 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 2597 times:

Varig's maintenance was first class up to a few years ago; when the airline started going down so did it's maintenance exclusively due to lack of money (no spare parts, etc). Several aircraft ended up grounded and used as "spare parts" supply; the airline pushed on the keep the operations going but may have gone too far, thus the state of some aircraft now being brought back to operation. Few other airlines had the maintenance infrastructure Varig built through its healthy years. As far as pax are concerned, even at the worst of times, I doubt they were exposed to any maintenance related threats for no Varig captain would knowingly accept a not airworthy frame; that was one of the corporate culture values within the airline.

User currently offlinePHKLM From Northern Mariana Islands, joined Dec 2005, 1198 posts, RR: 2
Reply 3, posted (6 years 11 months 1 week 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 2578 times:



Quoting SBGLexpat (Reply 2):
no Varig captain would knowingly accept a not airworthy frame; that was one of the corporate culture values within the airline.

Certainly it was not my intention to try to say that. For this reason I also included (was/is?) in the title of the thread. I am sure VRG has better practices today than in the past. Still it is worrisome to read the frames left RG pretty abused and tired.


User currently offlineBrasuca From Brazil, joined Mar 2004, 717 posts, RR: 10
Reply 4, posted (6 years 11 months 1 week 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 2578 times:

Here we go again in this gossip.
Ok, don't tell anyone, but VARIG maintainance is the worst in the world, even though VARIG has one of the best safety records in the whole industry.
Maybe there is a witchcraft department in VARIG to postpone the aircraft problems just after VARIG ownership, iso while the aircraft are flying with them.  stirthepot 

Oh Zeus, what a scoundrel VARIG is!  banghead 

Other airlines, BTW, have no excuses for the uncountable incidents/accidents statistics show up.



Varig, Varig, Varig
User currently offlineFinnaviation From Finland, joined Mar 2007, 255 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (6 years 11 months 1 week 23 hours ago) and read 2413 times:



Quoting PHKLM (Thread starter):
Finnair has the same experience with the ex-VARIG M11, it seems to be more in the MX hangar than in the air.

OH-LGG has been in Finnair's fleet for 2 years now and it has nothing to do with Varig anymore.

And about LGG staying in MX hangar, last time OH-LGG had overnight stay in HEL 31th December and after this only 2 hrs stops in HEL and in Asia/JFK.
Today she left HEL for JFK and has been running 23 days without longer stop.


User currently offlineQantas744ER From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 1296 posts, RR: 4
Reply 6, posted (6 years 11 months 1 week 22 hours ago) and read 2385 times:



Quoting Finnaviation (Reply 5):
OH-LGG has been in Finnair's fleet for 2 years now and it has nothing to do with Varig anymore.

And about LGG staying in MX hangar, last time OH-LGG had overnight stay in HEL 31th December and after this only 2 hrs stops in HEL and in Asia/JFK.
Today she left HEL for JFK and has been running 23 days without longer stop.

Good that it's running well now, but when LGG got into the fleet that plane had a couple of feet of wire leading nowhere simply left in the plane. There were also many uncapped wires and much more...not to mention the undocumented changes made to the CRT's and FMC's in the cockpits when swapped.

Better with Finnair! thats for sure  Silly

Cheers Leo



Happiness is V1 in Lagos
User currently offlineFinnaviation From Finland, joined Mar 2007, 255 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (6 years 11 months 1 week 22 hours ago) and read 2370 times:

And that is why she had D-check after she arrived at HEL.

Nowadays she is just MD-11 like six others in AY's fleet. Nothing to do with Varig.


User currently offlineLipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11459 posts, RR: 58
Reply 8, posted (6 years 11 months 1 week 21 hours ago) and read 2288 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
FORUM MODERATOR



Quoting Finnaviation (Reply 5):
OH-LGG has been in Finnair's fleet for 2 years now and it has nothing to do with Varig anymore.

And about LGG staying in MX hangar, last time OH-LGG had overnight stay in HEL 31th December and after this only 2 hrs stops in HEL and in Asia/JFK.
Today she left HEL for JFK and has been running 23 days without longer stop.

Also TAM is very happy with 3 M11 from RG. The planes holds a dispatch level closer to A332 fleet.

Quoting PHKLM (Thread starter):
According to http://www.luchtvaartnieuws.nl/news/?ID=24259 a Boeing 767 that now operates for Jetairfly - the Belgium arm of TUI Fly- that was formerly operated by VARIG Brazil is a maintenance nightmare.
The plane is badly maintained and hence goes MX very frequently. Even on the ferry flight it needed to make a precautionary landing

PP-VRA and PP-VRB (2 Boeing 777-200ER) are flying for AM, seems that with no problems.

Several M11 has been converted to cargo, seems that also without problems.

Some 763 and 733 are still flying under new RG ... no problems also.

The 2 738 and 2 73G are flying on G3... no problems

Some 772 are stored, but if someone wants, just need to invest more to restore it's capabilities.

I can't agree with you. RG maintenance even on last days, although far from RG historical levels, use to be good.

Felipe



New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
User currently offlineVAAengineer From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 90 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (6 years 11 months 1 week 20 hours ago) and read 2239 times:



Quoting Brasuca (Reply 4):
Here we go again in this gossip.
Ok, don't tell anyone, but VARIG maintainance is the worst in the world, even though VARIG has one of the best safety records in the whole industry.

I couln't agree more as Varig's maintenance was one of the worst I ever experienced and I know some here are gonna say how false my statement is but I guess they say it because they never worked on them, It was an accident waiting to happen. It sucks for the all the people who lost their jobs but I guess it was that or waiting for the FAA to really get on their case.



God's Gift To Aviation
User currently offlineBrasuca From Brazil, joined Mar 2004, 717 posts, RR: 10
Reply 10, posted (6 years 11 months 1 week 19 hours ago) and read 2219 times:



Quoting VAAengineer (Reply 9):

I couln't agree more as Varig's maintenance was one of the worst I ever experienced and I know some here are gonna say how false my statement is but I guess they say it because they never worked on them, It was an accident waiting to happen. It sucks for the all the people who lost their jobs but I guess it was that or waiting for the FAA to really get on their case.

I was extremely ironic in my last post, buddy. VARIG maintenance is flawless.



Varig, Varig, Varig
User currently offlineVAAengineer From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 90 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (6 years 11 months 1 week 18 hours ago) and read 2151 times:



Quoting Brasuca (Reply 10):
VARIG maintenance is flawless

My question to you is....Did you ever work on Varig's MD-11's 767's or their marvelous 777's I guess u never did, Varig pilots most of the times did not write the defects on the techlog so that the airplane wouldn't be AOG at an outstation and would go back to main base later on. Since you obviously dont know their maintenance program they please dont be so sure that they were/are flawless. Is just like saying that Tower Air was flawless as well.



God's Gift To Aviation
User currently offlineMarioSPlane From Brazil, joined Mar 2007, 113 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (6 years 11 months 1 week 16 hours ago) and read 2062 times:



Quoting WINGS (Reply 1):
I'm confident that TAP will work hard to improve VEM's standards to those at TAP Maintenance & Engineering, located in Lisbon.

VEM´s standards are as high as any other world-class maintenance and overhauling center.

Quoting VAAengineer (Reply 11):
My question to you is....Did you ever work on Varig's MD-11's 767's or their marvelous 777's I guess u never did, Varig pilots most of the times did not write the defects on the techlog so that the airplane wouldn't be AOG at an outstation and would go back to main base later on. Since you obviously dont know their maintenance program they please dont be so sure that they were/are flawless. Is just like saying that Tower Air was flawless as well.

Would you care to elaborate on that ? Did you ever work on them ?

I can´t think of a RG intercontinental captain doing or agreeing with the kind of behavior you´ve just portrayed.


User currently offlineJava6673 From United States of America, joined Nov 2007, 76 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (6 years 11 months 1 week 16 hours ago) and read 2037 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

All this problem with Varig maintenance,are absolutely true, !!! those 3 MD11 with TAM today, were a complete mess for Boeing, they spend almost 12 Million just to complete a D check, those A/C took tons of parts. There were cases where the all component was missing from this A/C

User currently offlineC010T3 From Brazil, joined Jul 2006, 3736 posts, RR: 19
Reply 14, posted (6 years 11 months 1 week 15 hours ago) and read 2012 times:



Quoting Java6673 (Reply 13):
All this problem with Varig maintenance,are absolutely true, !!! those 3 MD11 with TAM today, were a complete mess for Boeing, they spend almost 12 Million just to complete a D check, those A/C took tons of parts. There were cases where the all component was missing from this A/C

That's quite ironic, since VEM does the maintanance for Varig and the same VEM did the checks for the MD-11s that are now with TAM. The same VEM continues making the maintanance tor the three MD-11s.


User currently offlineBrasuca From Brazil, joined Mar 2004, 717 posts, RR: 10
Reply 15, posted (6 years 11 months 1 week 15 hours ago) and read 2006 times:



Quoting VAAengineer (Reply 11):

My question to you is....Did you ever work on Varig's MD-11's 767's or their marvelous 777's I guess u never did, Varig pilots most of the times did not write the defects on the techlog so that the airplane wouldn't be AOG at an outstation and would go back to main base later on. Since you obviously dont know their maintenance program they please dont be so sure that they were/are flawless. Is just like saying that Tower Air was flawless as well.

I invite you to elaborate your experience with VARIG maintenance as you're objecting a widely recognised quality standard.



Varig, Varig, Varig
User currently offlineSAOAP From Brazil, joined Mar 2005, 170 posts, RR: 3
Reply 16, posted (6 years 11 months 1 week 15 hours ago) and read 1970 times:



Quoting VAAengineer (Reply 11):

Funny, as far as I'm concerned the flight crew was THE FIRST to ground an acft if it was really a no-go item. And "I think" it was the reason we also saw so many cancelled flights back in 2006 shortly before the end. And while no-one can claim that they have a 100% reliable maintenance and a perfect flight safety record/culture/training (if they do they're arrogant and personally, not trustworthy), Varig's main asset has always been its flight safety record and flight safety oriented work culture. It's the one thing all Varig employees have always been proud of. Furthermore, if Varig's maintenance wasn't up to specs, Varig would not have been granted the IATA's IOSA certificate - which it held right until the end.

Cheers,

Marcelo



"When it's dark enough, you can see the stars" - Charles A. Beard
User currently offlineFyano773 From Mexico, joined Mar 2004, 789 posts, RR: 1
Reply 17, posted (6 years 11 months 1 week 13 hours ago) and read 1922 times:



Quoting PHKLM (Reply 3):
Still it is worrisome to read the frames left RG pretty abused and tired.



Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 8):
PP-VRA and PP-VRB (2 Boeing 777-200ER) are flying for AM, seems that with no problems.

  • N774AM (PP-VRA) took 3 months in CAN to take shape and at least 1 engine was replaced; later, it was grounded for a couple of weeks, rumor has it that interiors were refurbished and seats were rearranged to be consistent with the rest of the T7 fleet. I remember this plane was diverted to JFK in the MEX-MAD run due to a technical problem some months ago; besides, it is being reported in other topics/forums that some issues regarding IFE have come up:


    MyAviation.net photo:
    Click here for bigger photo!
    Photo © Peter Knaap
    MyAviation.net photo:
    Click here for bigger photo!
    Photo © Peter Knaap



  • N776AM (PP-VRB) took 5 months (3 in CAN and 2 in MEX) to be fully operational and according to ILFC press release, one can deduce both engines were upgraded to the GE90-94B. The plane has been flying for more than 2 months with AM and no problems have been reported, yet:


    View Large View Medium
    Click here for bigger photo!

    Photo © Gordon Gebert JR
    View Large View Medium
    Click here for bigger photo!

    Photo © Denis Roschlau - AirTeamImages



    As of this summary, both planes required heavy maintenance, and (I read from other post that) AM had to spent 10M USD to revamp interiors. I don't mean to bash RG's MX but both of them were the flag ships and allegedly the best T7s in the fleet.

    These planes have been a welcomed addition to AM but being critic, RG left the planes in bad conditions.

    Fyano


  • User currently offlineMarioSPlane From Brazil, joined Mar 2007, 113 posts, RR: 0
    Reply 18, posted (6 years 11 months 1 week 11 hours ago) and read 1851 times:



    Quoting Fyano773 (Reply 17):
    These planes have been a welcomed addition to AM but being critic, RG left the planes in bad conditions.

    True. But the point is that no RG plane was actually flying under these conditions. The frames were grounded for several months, engines were taken by the lessors. The planes got into this condition during the aftermath of RG crisis, not while they were on service. Planes are expensive and sensitive pieces of machinery. You just don´t go to Marana, pick one and fly it back to your home. And IFE issues and old interiors are just lack of cash, not lack of proper maintenance.

    As others have said, technical excellence was an absolute value for everyone in RG, especially their employees.


    Regards to all


    User currently offlineGhost77 From Mexico, joined Mar 2000, 5236 posts, RR: 51
    Reply 19, posted (6 years 11 months 1 week 11 hours ago) and read 1846 times:



    Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 8):
    PP-VRA and PP-VRB (2 Boeing 777-200ER) are flying for AM, seems that with no problems.

    These two have been headache's for AM's mx... almost after 6 months apparently they're again in "airworthy conditions".

    g77



    Ricardo Morales - flyAPM - ¡No es que maneje rapido, solo estoy volando lento!
    User currently offlineSBGLexpat From Brazil, joined Oct 2007, 64 posts, RR: 0
    Reply 20, posted (6 years 11 months 1 week 3 hours ago) and read 1759 times:

    I'll say it again:

    Maintenance at Varig was suffering from the same problems the carrier was in it's last days (or months): Lack of money and credit.

    Here's a piece of information for you guys: from a fleet of around 118 aircraft in early 2000 (including Rio-Sul and Nordeste) these nubers went down to around 60 frames in late 2005, out of which only about 40 were in service in 2006. The maintenance budget was around 15 million USD per month and eventualy hit 4 million/month... You can draw your own conclusions. As stated before, grounded aircraft, no spare parts and so on.

    As far as quality is concerned, let me post a question: would you say Varig was one of the worst airlines in the world (as was said about the maintenance)? Obviously, in the latter years it was not even close to the golden times, and the same goes for the maintenance, but if you judge the airline by a specific time in it's history, (and it's worst time), fine... but I would say you're being biased and not fair.

    Quoting VAAengineer (Reply 11):
    Did you ever work on Varig's MD-11's 767's or their marvelous 777's I guess u never did

    For your information, yes I have; and not just in the latter bad years, but long before that, so I can tell you you are not right, but looking at the recent times, when the airline was experiencing financial problems and struggled to keep its operation running; nevertheless, all aircraft in operation were airworthy.

    Quoting VAAengineer (Reply 11):
    Varig pilots most of the times did not write the defects on the techlog so that the airplane wouldn't be AOG at an outstation and would go back to main base later on

    Now, here's a very serious statement. Can you prove what you are saying? I will tell you and all other forum members that's not true. If you told me it happened on a specific occasion I would believe, but "most of times"...

    Varig MX was certified by the FAA, JAA, and brazilian authorities, and remained that way untill the end. It's now being run by TAP Engineering and has lots of international customers ( http://www.vem.aero/internet/index_en.asp ).

    The state of some aircraft has been very clearly explained by the other members in other posts in this thread.

    Best regards to all of you.


    User currently offlineVAAengineer From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 90 posts, RR: 0
    Reply 21, posted (6 years 11 months 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 1648 times:



    Quoting SAOAP (Reply 16):
    Funny, as far as I'm concerned the flight crew was THE FIRST to ground an acft if it was really a no-go item. And "I think" it was the reason we also saw so many cancelled flights back in 2006 shortly before the end. And while no-one can claim that they have a 100% reliable maintenance and a perfect flight safety record/culture/training (if they do they're arrogant and personally, not trustworthy), Varig's main asset has always been its flight safety record and flight safety oriented work culture. It's the one thing all Varig employees have always been proud of. Furthermore, if Varig's maintenance wasn't up to specs, Varig would not have been granted the IATA's IOSA certificate - which it held right until the end.

    Im not saying Varig was BAD all its lifetime but We started taking care of their flights in 2002 and year after year it got to the point where the FAA was just waiting for the airplane everyday just to make an issue out of it, the MD-11's were in my opinion better maintained than the 777's which were a nightmare. These planes were missing tv'sn some seats covered with regular tape seats with no recline actuators wiring problems that took us months to fix, the engines were consuming oil way out of limits but no one would lend and engine to Varig so that they can replace. Yes I did work on VArig's planes .

    Quoting SBGLexpat (Reply 20):
    Varig MX was certified by the FAA, JAA, and brazilian authorities, and remained that way untill the end. It's now being run by TAP Engineering and has lots of international customers ( http://www.vem.aero/internet/index_en.asp ).

    That does not mean anything, almost every airline has the same certification, that doesn't mean that teh FAA and EASA are three watching what happens.

    Im I the only saying that Varig MX was a mess? NOO. Stop making this an issue Im telling you what I know and what I saw and what alot of other people who also can say a thing or 2 about MX.



    God's Gift To Aviation
    User currently offlineAM001 From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 221 posts, RR: 5
    Reply 22, posted (6 years 11 months 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 1616 times:
    Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!



    Quoting Fyano773 (Reply 17):
    rumor has it that interiors were refurbished and seats were rearranged to be consistent with the rest of the T7 fleet. I

    So now the four planes have the new interiors??? If true, about bloody time...

    AM001



    "Je vole car cela libere mon esprit de la tyrannie des choses insignifiantes" - St. Exupery
    User currently offlineLipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11459 posts, RR: 58
    Reply 23, posted (6 years 11 months 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 1577 times:
    AIRLINERS.NET CREW
    FORUM MODERATOR



    Quoting Fyano773 (Reply 17):
    These planes have been a welcomed addition to AM but being critic, RG left the planes in bad conditions.

    PP-VRA was grounded since January 2006 after an emergency landing while flying GIG-FRA, some months later as PP-VRB need a Check-C, it received one of it's engine. PP-VRA flew up to the end of old-RG times of course using PP-VRB
    as a big replacement unit.

    Quoting MarioSPlane (Reply 18):
    True. But the point is that no RG plane was actually flying under these conditions. The frames were grounded for several months, engines were taken by the lessors



    Quoting Ghost77 (Reply 19):
    These two have been headache's for AM's mx... almost after 6 months apparently they're again in "airworthy conditions".

    Ghost, the fact is that, despite VRA and VRB received by RG from Boeing, all the others are also a nightmare for RG maintenance staff during almost 4 years. For sure by the end, both planes got problems with some IFE (not replaced while they broke), but they were almost new (VRB despite made in 2001 probably flew only 4 years), and mostly problems are due to comfort items. I doubt AM face huge problems with Hydraulic, electrical or electronic systems.

    Quoting Fyano773 (Reply 17):
    As of this summary, both planes required heavy maintenance, and (I read from other post that) AM had to spent 10M USD to revamp interiors

    And if RG by the time they received PP-VRC, VRD, VRE, VRF, VRI or VRJ decided to do the same would spent at least the same. And who we should blame ? BA ? UA ?
    The point is that, even JJ face problems (IIRC 3 since they got the 2 A345) with leased planes, who never had ?

    I believe if an airline will return a plane, will return as requested on the lease agreement, but it doesn't mean new parts.

    Felipe



    New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
    Top Of Page
    Forum Index

    This topic is archived and can not be replied to any more.

    Printer friendly format

    Similar topics:More similar topics...
    BUF Is A Mess Right Now! posted Sun Feb 4 2007 00:46:02 by Skoker
    ISP Is A Mess! No Glideslope No Planes! posted Fri Dec 1 2006 23:01:20 by AV8AJET
    JFK Is A Mess Tonight (part 2) posted Tue Feb 14 2006 02:35:39 by LTU932
    JFK Is A Mess Tonight posted Mon Feb 13 2006 06:04:29 by RJpieces
    What Was/is Air Berlin USA? posted Fri Jan 6 2006 16:54:54 by Eirjet
    Was/Is The US ATC System Near Collapse posted Sun Jun 27 2004 20:08:59 by Flybyguy
    Lufthansa Vs Varig: Wich One Is The Best? posted Mon May 13 2002 20:02:14 by Aad665
    Yes, United Is A Mess..Addressing Long-Term Issues posted Sun Nov 18 2001 14:35:21 by SFOintern
    Varig's 1st 777 Is Flying To Rio! posted Sat Nov 3 2001 04:41:58 by Varigaholic
    What Is/Was Longest Serving Type In An Airline? posted Tue Dec 18 2007 12:14:23 by Art