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What Happens With Crew Flying "Openskies"?  
User currently offlineFCAFLYBOY From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2006, 587 posts, RR: 0
Posted (6 years 6 months 1 week 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 2746 times:

Not referring to the new Airline btw, meant in general, i.e AF crew flying LHR-LAX.

How does/will this work for various airlines? Surely AF crew could not position to LHR and
then operate, because of FTL's etc?
If they are overnighting, then that will be quite a high unnecessay cost for AF and other airlines.

I'd be interested to hear how this is arranged at different airlines.

Thanks
FCAFLYBOY

19 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineStylo777 From Germany, joined Feb 2006, 2952 posts, RR: 12
Reply 1, posted (6 years 6 months 1 week 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 2728 times:

dead-head CDG-LHR, fly to LAX, stay there and fly back to CDG

another crew CDG-LAX, stay there, fly LAX-LHR and than dead-head to CDG.


User currently offlineBobnwa From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 6449 posts, RR: 9
Reply 2, posted (6 years 6 months 1 week 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 2709 times:

Airlines overnight crews all over the world to take trips the next day out of a city. At my own airline, NWA overnights many crews at Japan that came in from the US, that will take trips the next day to HKG, MNL PVG,TPE, etc.

Air France would do the same thing at LHR for a trip the next day to LAX.


User currently offlinePhilSquares From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (6 years 6 months 1 week 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 2693 times:



Quoting FCAFLYBOY (Thread starter):
How does/will this work for various airlines? Surely AF crew could not position to LHR and
then operate, because of FTL's etc?

Why not CDG-LAX-LHR-LAX-CDG. Pretty simple.


User currently offlineGpbcroppers63 From Ireland, joined Jan 2008, 520 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (6 years 6 months 1 week 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 2641 times:



Quoting PhilSquares (Reply 3):
Why not CDG-LAX-LHR-LAX-CDG. Pretty simple.

I believe this is how it's going to work.



According to one of my colleagues, my problem is that I'm addicted to travel!
User currently offlineLHR777 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (6 years 6 months 1 week 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 2636 times:



Quoting Stylo777 (Reply 1):
dead-head CDG-LHR, fly to LAX, stay there and fly back to CDG

another crew CDG-LAX, stay there, fly LAX-LHR and than dead-head to CDG.

No deadheading involved. I believe the crews will be flying 'W' patterns, as described above. (CDG-LAX-LHR-LAX-CDG)


User currently offlineAisak From Spain, joined Aug 2005, 762 posts, RR: 10
Reply 6, posted (6 years 6 months 1 week 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 2481 times:



Quoting FCAFLYBOY (Thread starter):
If they are overnighting, then that will be quite a high unnecessay cost for AF and other airlines.

As two people have posted above CDG-LAX-LHR-LAX-CDG seems the simplest. It's not diferent than AF CDG-LAX-PPT or BA LHR-BKK-SYD with the added advantage of having CDG-LHR at one hour of flying in case of need.


User currently offlineBeagleboys From Italy, joined Jun 2006, 230 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (6 years 6 months 1 week 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 2387 times:



Quoting PhilSquares (Reply 3):
Why not CDG-LAX-LHR-LAX-CDG. Pretty simple.

Because this means that a crew will stay out of base for a week and it's too long(usually the crew has a family, a life...). Also it's a big problem for FA with uniform and other things... (i.e. in 24h you can't risk to give your uniform to the laundry, and you usually need to change the skirt and the trousers for every on-duty flight...). I think the right one will be that: CDG-LAX-LHR-(DH)-CDG (like GJ do in Italy when fly the NAP-JFK, FCO-JFK, PMO-JFK, BLQ-JFK etc..)



Nervous? Yes. First Times? No, I've been nervous lots of times. -Airplane!
User currently offlineBellerophon From United Kingdom, joined May 2002, 583 posts, RR: 59
Reply 8, posted (6 years 6 months 1 week 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 2338 times:

Beagleboys

...Because this means that a crew will stay out of base for a week and it's too long...

Really?

That's news to me, and many others, who regularly fly longer trips than that away from base, and have done so for many years!


...Also it's a big problem for FA with uniform and other things...

I'm sure they'll find some way of solving such a difficult problem!  Wink

I would agree with what others have already suggested, that a W schedule would appear to be the most likely way this will be rostered.


Regards

Bellerophon


User currently offlineNorthstarBoy From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 1825 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (6 years 6 months 1 week 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 2309 times:
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Quoting Beagleboys (Reply 7):
Because this means that a crew will stay out of base for a week and it's too long(usually the crew has a family, a life...). Also it's a big problem for FA with uniform and other things... (i.e. in 24h you can't risk to give your uniform to the laundry, and you usually need to change the skirt and the trousers for every on-duty flight...). I think the right one will be that: CDG-LAX-LHR-(DH)-CDG (like GJ do in Italy when fly the NAP-JFK, FCO-JFK, PMO-JFK, BLQ-JFK etc..)

somehow i find it hard to believe that a long haul cabin crew member would not travel with one or more spare uniforms in their bag. in addition to the requirement that they wear a fresh, clean uniform for every leg, i'm sure there are myriad things that can happen that necessitate a uniform piece change in flight, coffee spilling during turbulence, soup spilling, little kid throwing up on you, etc.



Why are people so against low yields?! If lower yields means more people can travel abroad, i'm all for it
User currently offlineAznMadSci From United States of America, joined Dec 2007, 3658 posts, RR: 5
Reply 10, posted (6 years 6 months 1 week 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 2282 times:



Quoting Aisak (Reply 6):
AF CDG-LAX-PPT



Quoting Aisak (Reply 6):
CDG-LAX-LHR-LAX-CDG

The W route could work for LAX-LHR for CDG crews. I thought AF has a PPT base to do LAX-PPT and/or CDG-LAX-PPT. Is this correct FlySSC?



The journey of life is not based on the accomplishments, but the experience.
User currently offlinePhilSquares From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (6 years 6 months 1 week 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 2233 times:



Quoting Beagleboys (Reply 7):
Because this means that a crew will stay out of base for a week and it's too long

I'd call a 16 day trip long. I'd kill for a trip like the one you're calling long.


User currently offline474218 From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 6340 posts, RR: 9
Reply 12, posted (6 years 6 months 1 week 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 2173 times:



Quoting Beagleboys (Reply 7):
Because this means that a crew will stay out of base for a week and it's too long(usually the crew has a family, a life...).

I guess Italy doesn't have a military, but when members of the United States military leave home (and there families) they may stay away for up to a year. And they are not compensated or housed like airline crews are. When I was in product support I had to leave home (usually on a monuments notice) for periods of up to three months and I had a life and a family. But I also had a job that had to be done.


User currently offlineWindowSeat From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 1311 posts, RR: 57
Reply 13, posted (6 years 6 months 1 week 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 2094 times:

Quoting 474218 (Reply 12):
I guess Italy doesn't have a military, but when members of the United States military leave home (and there families) they may stay away for up to a year. And they are not compensated or housed like airline crews are. When I was in product support I had to leave home (usually on a monuments notice) for periods of up to three months and I had a life and a family. But I also had a job that had to be done.

I think your post is irrelevant. I'm sorry to hear about you 474218, but you chose to be in the military. Cabin crew rules on the other hand are different, and governed by negotiations between the company and the unions. They are not in combat, the poor souls are only keeping you safe on a flight. Maybe you can become a Flight Attendant too and then you won't have to leave at a moment's notice or stay away for up to three months.

cheers
WindowSeat.

[Edited 2008-01-23 18:42:07]


I'm all in favour of keeping dangerous weapons out of the hands of fools. Let's start with keyboards.
User currently offline474218 From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 6340 posts, RR: 9
Reply 14, posted (6 years 6 months 1 week 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 2047 times:



Quoting WindowSeat (Reply 13):
I think your post is irrelevant. I'm sorry to hear about you 474218, but you chose to be in the military. Cabin crew rules on the other hand are different, and governed by negotiations between the company and the unions. They are not in combat, the poor souls are only keeping you safe on a flight. Maybe you can become a Flight Attendant too and then you won't have to leave at a moment's notice or stay away for up to three months.

Who said I was in the military? I just used the military as an example of people that have to be away from their family for extended periods of time (a lot longer than a week) and somehow manage to live through it. I worked for a airframe manufacture and retired seven years ago. I was in customer support, if there was an incident or a problem with an aircraft that the airline could not fix, it was my job to assist them. Sometimes it took a day to fix sometimes a lot longer.

Since I am over 60 I don't think I would make a good FA, even though I have been on several ferry flights where I cooked and served the meals, brewed the coffee and on one flight even showed a couple of movies.

I take it you are a loyal union member, I always like to ask union members this question: When you get your pay check who's name is on it, the union or the company you work for?


User currently offlineWindowSeat From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 1311 posts, RR: 57
Reply 15, posted (6 years 6 months 1 week 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 2026 times:



Quoting 474218 (Reply 14):
I take it you are a loyal union member, I always like to ask union members this question: When you get your pay check who's name is on it, the union or the company you work for?

Nope, I'm not and never was so, frankly, your question is wasted on me. What I was saying was that you chose the career you chose. And the military personnel chose the one they chose. So did the F/As, so there's no point in comparing it to the military. The playing field is different, the rules are different. It's apples to oranges.

I am away from home a few weeks at a time myself and sometimes are short notice and it could be anywhere in the world, but those are the rules. Just like flight attendants have theirs. The trip described above WILL be a long one in the way their job works.

cheers
WindowSeat



I'm all in favour of keeping dangerous weapons out of the hands of fools. Let's start with keyboards.
User currently offlineBeagleboys From Italy, joined Jun 2006, 230 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (6 years 6 months 1 week 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 1935 times:



Quoting NorthstarBoy (Reply 9):
somehow i find it hard to believe that a long haul cabin crew member would not travel with one or more spare uniforms in their bag. in addition to the requirement that they wear a fresh, clean uniform for every leg, i'm sure there are myriad things that can happen that necessitate a uniform piece change in flight, coffee spilling during turbulence, soup spilling, little kid throwing up on you, etc.

i'm an FA and i can tell you that usually a male FA has 2/3 uniform and obviously some spare skirt, just in case of spilling or something else... Maybe AF give 10 uniform to FA but...

Quoting 474218 (Reply 12):
I guess Italy doesn't have a military, but when members of the United States military leave home (and there families) they may stay away for up to a year. And they are not compensated or housed like airline crews are. When I was in product support I had to leave home (usually on a monuments notice) for periods of up to three months and I had a life and a family. But I also had a job that had to be done.

Yes, we have an Army also... And we had also our "died in action"... but i don't see the link between FA and Soldier...
Yes we got money when in service but usually we have to use these money to live while we are in these place (50€/day in MLE is not so much).

Quoting PhilSquares (Reply 11):
I'd call a 16 day trip long. I'd kill for a trip like the one you're calling long.

It's 2 years that i do this work and i also like long stop in beautiful city like LAX and LHR but i see so many colleague that did this work for 10, 20 years with a family and child that really prefere to stay much more at home...



Nervous? Yes. First Times? No, I've been nervous lots of times. -Airplane!
User currently offlineHBJZA From Switzerland, joined Jan 2006, 376 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (6 years 6 months 1 week 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 1900 times:



Quoting Beagleboys (Reply 16):
i'm an FA and i can tell you that usually a male FA has 2/3 uniform and obviously some spare skirt

Very interesting to know that at your airline male FA wear skirts !!!!!  laugh 


User currently offlineBramble From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (6 years 6 months 1 week 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 1884 times:

I think we should realise that each airline is different. My airline has no stop-overs longer than 3 nights (Most are only 1 night) so the longest you are away from home is 4-5 days. However I realise that other airlines have different regulations/work patterns and are often away for over 10 days. Beagleboy is asking a serious question and in a language which is not his first so no need to slap him down.
I agree that being away from my family at short notice is very inconvenient but as someone stated it is my choice to live this life,I am lucky that I have a wife that understands my career. Also it is the military personnel's choice too. Comparing airline crew to military personnel is irrelevant.


User currently offlineBeagleboys From Italy, joined Jun 2006, 230 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (6 years 6 months 1 week 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 1855 times:



Quoting HBJZA (Reply 17):
Very interesting to know that at your airline male FA wear skirts !!!!!

ehm... i think too much to skirt... Freudian slip... i mean shirt...



Nervous? Yes. First Times? No, I've been nervous lots of times. -Airplane!
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