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KLM's Extra Long Forward Galley - Why?  
User currently offlineDeaphen From India, joined Jul 2005, 1427 posts, RR: 1
Posted (6 years 9 months 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 15089 times:

First of all, i apologise for the self plug, but i have a valid question about the KLM 747 layout with specific reference to the unusually huge front galley. I hear that Garuda was the only other carrier to have such a galley installed. But what i dont get is, what purpose does it serve?

Further, i was seated in the forward section of the plane where the galley is located, seatguru.com rated the seats as good, but i found them rather calustrophbic and uncomfortable. Plus, that cabin was very noisy during the meal service. Apart from privacy being the onyl real advantage, i found none other. Infact, in broad daylight the cabin was rather dark.

So i really want to know what practical purpose does it serve KLM, im sure it does in some way or the other, but from a passengers point of view, i just didnt get it.

Ofcourse, to top it off, the lady next to me freikin threw up on me! Talk about that for a good flight!

But KLM's service was great, impeccable rather, the flight was enjoyable, only wish i had chosen another seat in another cabin and choosen some other twit to sit next to me who could hold his/her digestive juices inside themselves.

Here is the pic of the galley in question,

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Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Nitin Sarin




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30 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineDtwclipper From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (6 years 9 months 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 15083 times:



Quoting Deaphen (Thread starter):
I hear that Garuda was the only other carrier to have such a galley installed. But what i dont get is, what purpose does it serve?

This type of galley was first offered as an option on the 747SP. PA had it, but TW for example did not.

One of the benefits of the longitudinal galley is that it allows for the galley to be serviced during boarding/deplaning.


User currently offlineJGPH1A From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (6 years 9 months 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 15090 times:

SAA had long lateral galleys on their SP's and I think on other types too. Made for a neat little cabin just aft of door 1 - usually 2 x 2 Gold Class or 3 x 3 Silver Class.

User currently offlineDeaphen From India, joined Jul 2005, 1427 posts, RR: 1
Reply 3, posted (6 years 9 months 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 15078 times:



Quoting Dtwclipper (Reply 1):
One of the benefits of the longitudinal galley is that it allows for the galley to be serviced during boarding/deplaning

But is that really a big advantage? Does it result in saving time or money in any way?

Quoting JGPH1A (Reply 2):
SAA had long lateral galleys on their SP's and I think on other types too

Oh i wasnt aware of that, i just though KL and Garuda were the only two operators who had such an installation.



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User currently offlineAznMadSci From United States of America, joined Dec 2007, 3681 posts, RR: 6
Reply 4, posted (6 years 9 months 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 14861 times:

QF had them on their SPs as well. I remember getting a peak at it when I was little on a SYD-MNL run. The FAs showed me the different compartments and ovens that served the shortened foward cabin.

On KL, were you on the 744-Combi? The Combis are 2/3 pax in the front and 1/3 cargo in the back. The length of the galley is between doors R1 and R2 and serves both the forward WBC and the rest of coach since there are no galleys in the back part of the pax cabin before the cargo section. This arrangement maximizes both the number of pax and galley space within a much smaller confine.



The journey of life is not based on the accomplishments, but the experience.
User currently offlinePHKLM From Northern Mariana Islands, joined Dec 2005, 1198 posts, RR: 2
Reply 5, posted (6 years 9 months 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 14784 times:



Quoting AznMadSci (Reply 4):
On KL, were you on the 744-Combi?

This is pretty irrelevant, as the 747 full-pax at KLM also has the same long galley.
In addition, it has a galley in the back to serve the rear Y section.


User currently offlineAznMadSci From United States of America, joined Dec 2007, 3681 posts, RR: 6
Reply 6, posted (6 years 9 months 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 14691 times:



Quoting PHKLM (Reply 5):
This is pretty irrelevant, as the 747 full-pax at KLM also has the same long galley.
In addition, it has a galley in the back to serve the rear Y section.

Thanks for clarification. I've flown on the KL combi once before CO started IAH-AMS. I noticed that then and made sense. Yet, when I flew on a BR combi on TPE-LAX, they had the standard forward galley.



The journey of life is not based on the accomplishments, but the experience.
User currently offlineAznMadSci From United States of America, joined Dec 2007, 3681 posts, RR: 6
Reply 7, posted (6 years 9 months 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 14692 times:



Quoting PHKLM (Reply 5):
This is pretty irrelevant, as the 747 full-pax at KLM also has the same long galley.
In addition, it has a galley in the back to serve the rear Y section.

Thanks for clarification. I've flown on the KL combi once before CO started IAH-AMS. I noticed that then and made sense. Yet, when I flew on a BR combi on TPE-LAX, they had the standard forward galley.



The journey of life is not based on the accomplishments, but the experience.
User currently offlineRedChili From Norway, joined Jul 2005, 2301 posts, RR: 5
Reply 8, posted (6 years 9 months 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 14691 times:

Thai has such gallies on all 747s.


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User currently offlineAT From United States of America, joined Jul 2000, 1049 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (6 years 9 months 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 14675 times:

If I recall correctly the 747s on Thai (not the -400s though) had the long galley.
I don't like them as they make the remaining part of the cabin used for seats claustrophobic--
but may be cabin crew feel differently?

The above point of being able to service the aircraft while boarding/deplaning is a good one. Although the Combi also has additional galleys at door 2L/R and 4L/R .


User currently offlineArdian From Netherlands, joined Oct 2000, 546 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (6 years 9 months 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 14592 times:

I remembered reading something that this type of galley arrangement was used because of the former Royal Class in the nose section. Please correct me if I'm wrong, because I don't know the exact benefits. I'm pretty interested as well. I think it looks pretty cool; a cosy working space and on the other side a much more private passenger cabin.

User currently offlineKeesje From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (6 years 9 months 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 14585 times:

(no longer work for KLM but..) The forward part of the galley was used as a real kitchen to cook a la carte for Royal (First) class in the A zone when KLM had that service (until ´93 I think).

After that we did some studies to remove them & replace them with more typical center galleys.

That would require enormous investments and ground time. Hanger slots / workforce of KLM E&M could also be better used for (third) party maintenance. KLM had more the 30 747s when I was involved. We were looking at hundreds of millions with a long break even time..

The strangely small A-zone on the MD11 is a result of the same move, it fits 2.5 rows of business class  down  . The aircraft/cabins were ordered just prior to the deletion of First class. We made a lot of alternative cabin plans but..

KLM 744 http://www.klm.com/travel/gb_en/images/b747-400-combi_tcm54-32112.gif
KLM M11 http://www.klm.com/travel/gb_en/images/new_md11_tcm54-32119.gif


User currently offlineArdian From Netherlands, joined Oct 2000, 546 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (6 years 9 months 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 14535 times:



Quoting Keesje (Reply 11):
0

Thanks for clearing that up!


User currently offlineJetMARC From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 558 posts, RR: 2
Reply 13, posted (6 years 9 months 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 14501 times:

I never really liked it much either. I remember flying as a teenager from HNL to either NRT or GUM on Continental Micronesia and they had the same deal on the DC-10 and made for a rather lame trip despite being Business First...


Here are some pics of Thai Airways 'mini cabin' and long galley...




At least their galleys had windows!


[Edited 2008-01-23 14:02:14]


"Sucka, I'm gonna send you out on Knuckle Airlines. Fist Class!!" ~ Mr. T
User currently offlineJetMARC From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 558 posts, RR: 2
Reply 14, posted (6 years 9 months 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 14477 times:

(In case the links above don't work...)

Thai Mini Cabin

Thai Long Galley

ps - also don't think I liked it because it felt like a narrow-body...



"Sucka, I'm gonna send you out on Knuckle Airlines. Fist Class!!" ~ Mr. T
User currently offlineDeaphen From India, joined Jul 2005, 1427 posts, RR: 1
Reply 15, posted (6 years 9 months 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 14391 times:



Quoting Keesje (Reply 11):
was used as a real kitchen to cook a la carte for Royal (First) class in the A zone when KLM had that service (until ´93 I think).

That is absolutely mind blowing! I guess those were the days, can you tell me, is there any extra ventilation installd in the ong galley, if it was used to ala carte cooking, i am assuming they had to do something about the cooking smell.

Anyways, can you imagine what a plane would have smelt like back then, lobster being cooked up front and 30 odd smokers at the back!!

On a off topic note, did business class have its own smoking section back in the old days or did they have to venture to the back too? And what about upper deck?

Quoting JetMARC (Reply 14):

ps - also don't think I liked it because it felt like a narrow-body...

That was exactly my problem too!

Apart from being thrown up on!!



I want every single airport and airplane in India to be on A.net!
User currently offlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 25638 posts, RR: 22
Reply 16, posted (6 years 9 months 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 14371 times:



Quoting AT (Reply 9):
If I recall correctly the 747s on Thai (not the -400s though) had the long galley.
I don't like them as they make the remaining part of the cabin used for seats claustrophobic--
but may be cabin crew feel differently?

I've always preferred the cabin next to the forward galley on KL 747s. It's more private with much less foot traffic in the aisle. Also permits quicker boarding/deplaning, In fact business class passengers seated in the A zone in the nose often have to walk through that economy class cabin when boarding as the 2nd door is often the only one used. When deplaning, KL normally blocks economy passengers to permit business class passengers to exit first (both those in the A zone and those on the upper deck). They direct A zone passengers through the galley when the 2nd door is used.

When KL still offered first class service, the cabin beside the galley was business class..


User currently offlineDtwclipper From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 17, posted (6 years 9 months 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 14215 times:



Quoting Keesje (Reply 11):
The strangely small A-zone on the MD11 is a result of the same move, it fits 2.5 rows of business class . The aircraft/cabins were ordered just prior to the deletion of First class. We made a lot of alternative cabin plans but..

Thanks Keesje, I've always wondered why their MD11 fleet had such an odd forward WBC cabin.


User currently offlineSA7700 From South Africa, joined Dec 2003, 3431 posts, RR: 26
Reply 18, posted (6 years 9 months 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 14169 times:
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Quoting JGPH1A (Reply 2):
I think on other types too

SA 743's: ZS-SAT (Johannesburg) and ZS-SAU (Cape Town) also had the long, lateral galleys.



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User currently offlineManfredj From United States of America, joined Mar 2007, 1132 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (6 years 9 months 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 12632 times:



Quoting JetMARC (Reply 14):
ps - also don't think I liked it because it felt like a narrow-body...

WOW! Thanks for the photos...I view so many pictures in here every day, it really takes something out of the ordinary to surprise me. How great for the flight attendants to be able to look out the windows while preparing meals. I think this layout is incredibly ergonomic and should be considered on more aircraft. Look how easy it is to service both front and aft cabins.



757: The last of the best
User currently offlineUA772IAD From Australia, joined Jul 2004, 1730 posts, RR: 3
Reply 20, posted (6 years 9 months 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 12609 times:

IT does seem like an unnecessary waste of space, particularly considering that there must be a galley beneath the staircase. I suppose its because most airlines have Business class in that area, and the standard centre galley doesn't have enough space to accommodate cart parking, carrier boxes and ovens.

Also note that KLM doesn't have the usual centre galley immedeatly aft of the forward cabin at door 1 like most carriers do.

[Edited 2008-01-23 18:40:15]

User currently offlineRedChili From Norway, joined Jul 2005, 2301 posts, RR: 5
Reply 21, posted (6 years 9 months 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 12565 times:

Check out seat maps with this galley on Thai Air:

http://www.thaiair.com/Travel_Destin...tion/Aircraft_Seatmaps/B7442_l.htm



Top 10 airplanes: B737, T154, B747, IL96, T134, IL62, A320, MD80, B757, DC10
User currently offlineDeaphen From India, joined Jul 2005, 1427 posts, RR: 1
Reply 22, posted (6 years 9 months 3 days ago) and read 9856 times:



Quoting Manfredj (Reply 19):
Look how easy it is to service both front and aft cabins.

I get your point but i dont understand how these galleys provide for better servicing of the cabins? Could you please explain it to me?

Quoting RedChili (Reply 21):
Check out seat maps with this galley on Thai Air:

Thanks for those!



I want every single airport and airplane in India to be on A.net!
User currently offlineManfredj From United States of America, joined Mar 2007, 1132 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (6 years 9 months 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 8390 times:



Quoting Keesje (Reply 11):
KLM 744 http://www.klm.com/travel/gb_en/imag...2.gif

I think in this drawing, it shows how F/A's can monitor both the first and coach class cabins from one gallley. I have a degree in ergomics, which of course is a study in time and motions. Not only is there more space for crew's to work, but it takes LESS TIME for a crew member to get from the galley to either cabin than in the conventional set-up.

It's almost like designing a kitchen in a restraunt in the middle of the dinning area. It gives the wait staff the ability to get everywhere quicker.



757: The last of the best
User currently offlineFFlyer From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 733 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (6 years 9 months 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 8187 times:

I have now got for twice got the first window seat in that "side-section" just behind the L1 door. I really like it; very private, and peaceful, and the first row, of course, gives that unlimited space for your feet. Absolutely my favorite on KLM 744 economy!

25 LH417AF025 : absolutely. esp when you have a late inbound and you are trying to turn the aircraft around in the minimum amount of time possible and catering is la
26 Jetdude : At America West, we flew 747's previously owned by KLM. The galley set up was a great help. It tended to keep the galley action a little more private
27 Post contains images Jabar : I am not 100% sure of this, but I flew Saudia about 10 years ago on a 747 (can't remember the version) from JED to BKK (with a stop in Riyad at 1am )
28 Post contains images Birdwatching : It doesn't look like the galley has windows: Soren
29 Keesje : People who regularly flew WBC on KLM 747 maindeck know in front of the long galley there was a favourite hang out place. They put snacks / goodies on
30 LHRBFSTrident : like the after-dinner chocolate box on my last LAX-AMS flight. British Caledonan (the original 'BR') had at least 1 747 with a longitudinal galley in
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