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Hong Kong To Tokyo (Haneda)  
User currently offlineKaitak From Ireland, joined Aug 1999, 12594 posts, RR: 34
Posted (6 years 11 months 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 5782 times:

I see from this article (although I seem to recall it was also mentioned a short while back) that ANA is to run "charter" flights to HND, along the same lines as it currently runs to Seoul (Gimpo) and Shanghai (Hongqiao) and shortly to Beijing's Nanyuan Airport ...

http://www.atwonline.com/news/story.html?storyID=11496

All of these airports seem to be chosen because they are closer to the city centre, but also to manage to avoid international connections, so people can not connect to HND from these cities and avoid NRT. HOWEVER ....

Hong Kong will be operated soon, presumably on the same basis. My questions:
1) Will a HK airline have similar rights?
2) Will CX or KA, for example, be allowed to operate scheduled to HND, once the new runway is open?
3) How will the Japanese authorities be able to stop CX operating a through service from (say) LHR to HND, via HKG?

I had understood that the range of international services from the new HND runway would be limited to services within a circle equivalent to the distance from north to south Japan. Shanghai and Seoul fall within that, but HKG (and I think PEK) fall outside of it. Is this still the intention?

Would love to know more (as I'm sure would CX, because the right to fly HKG to HND would be a huge moneyspinner!)

15 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineKtachiya From Japan, joined Sep 2004, 1805 posts, RR: 2
Reply 1, posted (6 years 11 months 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 5661 times:



Quoting Kaitak (Thread starter):
Shanghai and Seoul fall within that, but HKG (and I think PEK) fall outside of it

Yes, I read in a previous post that Hong Kong is the limit of int'l flights from HND. If this happens, I see JL and CX joining together and operating some pax from HND via Hong Kong to a third destination, which I presume will be a blow to NH. On the other hand, I think NH could tie up with CA (but CA doesn't have the high-class reputation that CX has).

On the other hand, I don't think this will considerably affect NRT unless the pax are all traveling to Singapore, Vietnam, etc where JAL places a lot of their old planes (747 classics). So will JAL bring in a lot of its B744 int'l and base them in HND for the freuquency?

This int'l regulation to certain distances is so confusing.



Flown on: DC-10-30, B747-200B, B747-300, B747-300SR, B747-400, B747-400D, B767-300, B777-200, B777-200ER, B777-300
User currently offlineRedChili From Norway, joined Jul 2005, 2304 posts, RR: 5
Reply 2, posted (6 years 11 months 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 5579 times:



Quoting Kaitak (Thread starter):
I see from this article (although I seem to recall it was also mentioned a short while back) that ANA is to run "charter" flights to HND, along the same lines as it currently runs to Seoul (Gimpo) and Shanghai (Hongqiao) and shortly to Beijing's Nanyuan Airport ...

http://www.atwonline.com/news/story.html?storyID=11496

All of these airports seem to be chosen because they are closer to the city centre,

You didn't say which airport in Hong Kong they will fly to, but since you mentioned that "all" these airports are closer to the city center, and because of your user name, will they fly to Kai Tak??? (Please, please, pleeeeease tell me that it's true and that Kai Tak will open up for a few charter flights! Pleeeease!!!!!!)



Top 10 airplanes: B737, T154, B747, IL96, T134, IL62, A320, MD80, B757, DC10
User currently offlineKtachiya From Japan, joined Sep 2004, 1805 posts, RR: 2
Reply 3, posted (6 years 11 months 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 5533 times:



Quoting RedChili (Reply 2):
Please, please, pleeeeease tell me that it's true and that Kai Tak will open up for a few charter flights!

Kaitak was open space when I went there in 99, when I went there three weeks ago, I think it was a park. So unless planes want to land at a park, there is no ILS or whatsoever anymore. And there is only Chep Lap Kok in Hong Kong. There is Macau Airport in Macau, and Shenzhen has an airport, but only Chep Lap Kok.



Flown on: DC-10-30, B747-200B, B747-300, B747-300SR, B747-400, B747-400D, B767-300, B777-200, B777-200ER, B777-300
User currently offlineKaitak From Ireland, joined Aug 1999, 12594 posts, RR: 34
Reply 4, posted (6 years 11 months 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 5455 times:



Quoting Ktachiya (Reply 3):
Kaitak was open space when I went there in 99, when I went there three weeks ago, I think it was a park. So unless planes want to land at a park, there is no ILS or whatsoever anymore. And there is only Chep Lap Kok in Hong Kong. There is Macau Airport in Macau, and Shenzhen has an airport, but only Chep Lap Kok.

As my pseudonym will tell you, there's nothing I'd like more than Kai Tak reopening, but sadly, the runway has been dug up and there's a big block of flats right in the middle of what was the final approach, so it's not a runner.

So, HKG is at the far edge of the limit of cities that can be served; I'd expect, over a period of time, that limit will be extended. I know for a fact that UAL is busting a gut to get into HND.


User currently offlineYLWbased From Hong Kong, joined Jan 2006, 844 posts, RR: 4
Reply 5, posted (6 years 11 months 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 5271 times:

I do believe Hong Kong Express (UO) will be launching schedule daily HKG-HND this year. we'll see.

YLWbased



Hong Kong is not China. Not better or worse, just different.
User currently offlineCentrair From Japan, joined Jan 2005, 3599 posts, RR: 20
Reply 6, posted (6 years 11 months 2 days ago) and read 5184 times:

Here is the article from the Daily Yomiuri that was posted in the Japan thread.

The flight leaves HND at 9:00pm and arrives at HKG in the very early morning (I think around midnight).
The flight leaves HKG a few hours later and arrives back at HND around 7:00am.

Quote:
in June, international flights were given the green light to leave Haneda between 8:30 p.m. and 11 p.m. and arrive between 6 a.m. and 8:30 a.m.


And before it even gets asked. NO we will not see long-haul from HND to Europe or North America. In fact we won't even see it to Australia or South East Asia. The government has limited scheduled international ops from HND to a ring that includes all of the Japanese islands, parts of China and all of Korea. (Don't know if Taiwan is in this ring.)

[Edited 2008-01-24 17:20:54]


Yes...I am not a KIX fan. Let's Japanese Aviation!
User currently offlineCarpethead From Japan, joined Aug 2004, 2977 posts, RR: 3
Reply 7, posted (6 years 11 months 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 5095 times:



Quoting Centrair (Reply 6):
And before it even gets asked. NO we will not see long-haul from HND to Europe or North America.

I am not so sure NEVER or NO is going to hold-up.
I could see HND's operator allowing intercontinental flights during the off-peak hours. (eg 2200-0600)
Why let a perfectly good int'l terminal sit idle when NRT has a curfew during these hours?
By the way, intercontinental charters have been happening for the last few years @HND and could definitely increase this summer.

The perimeter rule will definitely be effective during the peak hours though.

While the proposed hours tend to favor Japanese airlines, there's always the codesharing/revenue sharing amongst the alliance carriers.


User currently offlineSandyCX From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2008, 23 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (6 years 11 months 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 4918 times:



Quoting Kaitak (Thread starter):
3) How will the Japanese authorities be able to stop CX operating a through service from (say) LHR to HND, via HKG?

Yes, i'm interested in how they would do that too as its only a matter of time before Cathay and JAL will apply for the route if ANA fly it.
One option could be timing the flights, making connections very long, wiping out any advantage of flying out of Haneda instead of NRT.
Anyway, there's a lot of money to be made on HKG-HND alone.


User currently onlineStarlionblue From Greenland, joined Feb 2004, 17173 posts, RR: 66
Reply 9, posted (6 years 11 months 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 4903 times:



Quoting RedChili (Reply 2):
You didn't say which airport in Hong Kong they will fly to, but since you mentioned that "all" these airports are closer to the city center, and because of your user name, will they fly to Kai Tak??? (Please, please, pleeeeease tell me that it's true and that Kai Tak will open up for a few charter flights! Pleeeease!!!!!!)

Hehe. As has been mentioned above, Kai Tak is not usable in any way, shape or form. No runway, buildings on the former approach path, no lights, etc...

Much as I loved Kai Tak as an enthusiast I must say the city is much better served by Chep Lap Kok.



"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots."
User currently offlineFiripu From New Zealand, joined Nov 2005, 19 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (6 years 11 months 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 4802 times:



Quoting Centrair (Reply 6):
The flight leaves HND at 9:00pm and arrives at HKG in the very early morning (I think around midnight).
The flight leaves HKG a few hours later and arrives back at HND around 7:00am.

I think these flights will be very popular for Hong Kongers on a quick trips to Tokyo, especially on weekends. HND is also a lot more convenient to get into town than NRT!

At present, I don't think there are overnight flights from Hong Kong to Japan, and the earliest flights into Tokyo arrive in the early afternoon around 1pm/2pm. Add in the time at immigration and the long journey into Central Tokyo from NRT and you won't be ready to hit the town until 4pm, wasting most of the day.

With the new flights, you can grab a Friday night flight to Tokyo, arrive on Saturday morning, spend all day Saturday and Sunday in Tokyo, and fly back on Sunday evening.


User currently offlineRedChili From Norway, joined Jul 2005, 2304 posts, RR: 5
Reply 11, posted (6 years 11 months 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 4757 times:



Quoting Ktachiya (Reply 3):
Kaitak was open space when I went there in 99

 weeping 

Quoting Kaitak (Reply 4):
but sadly, the runway has been dug up

 weeping   weeping 

Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 9):
Kai Tak is not usable in any way, shape or form.

 weeping   weeping   weeping 



Top 10 airplanes: B737, T154, B747, IL96, T134, IL62, A320, MD80, B757, DC10
User currently onlineStarlionblue From Greenland, joined Feb 2004, 17173 posts, RR: 66
Reply 12, posted (6 years 11 months 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 4702 times:

Settle down RedChili. At least there's a huge golf store where the airport used to be. Big grin


"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots."
User currently offlineBRxxx From Taiwan, joined Aug 2007, 113 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (6 years 11 months 15 hours ago) and read 4597 times:

A bit off topic but..
Would it be possible if ANA also decides to start charter flights from HND to TSA some time in the future?



Flown on:A320,A332,A333,B737,B738,B763,B744,B77W,B773,E175,E190,MD90,MD11
User currently offlineKaitak From Ireland, joined Aug 1999, 12594 posts, RR: 34
Reply 14, posted (6 years 11 months 10 hours ago) and read 4501 times:



Quoting BRxxx (Reply 13):
Would it be possible if ANA also decides to start charter flights from HND to TSA some time in the future?

It might be difficult, given the r'ship between Taiwan and Japan; I wonder could CI or BR return to NRT? Did CI move to NRT of their own accord, or did the Japanese authorities tell them they had to?

The runway at TSA should not be a problem anyway. Maybe, in time, there could be a network of routes to secondary (but close to city centre) airports in Asia, including Itami (Osaka) and Don Muang (Bangkok).


User currently offlineCarpethead From Japan, joined Aug 2004, 2977 posts, RR: 3
Reply 15, posted (6 years 10 months 4 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 4346 times:



Quoting Kaitak (Reply 14):
It might be difficult, given the r'ship between Taiwan and Japan;

Relation between Taiwan & Japan is OK; its just how things are perceived with the PRC.

Quoting Kaitak (Reply 14):
I wonder could CI or BR return to NRT?

I think you meant to say return to HND because CI & BR operate out of NRT now.
It is a possibility depending on where the Ministry of Transport draws the perimeter. Or operate at non-peak hours.

Quoting Kaitak (Reply 14):
Did CI move to NRT of their own accord, or did the Japanese authorities tell them they had to?

They were forced out to NRT because domestic airlines wanted their slots. For BR, it was a plus because they only had two weekly flights at HND; while making the switch allowed them to increase to two daily flights.


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