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U.S. Carriers Move From LGW To LHR  
User currently offlineRampGuy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (6 years 7 months 1 week 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 9394 times:

So when U.S. carriers like CO and DL begin flying into LHR this year, they are still keep their flights into Gatwick. My question is why would they need/want to remain in Gatwick if Heathrow is the prefered airport they want to be in? Is there enough passenger demand to warrant flying into both London airports? This was not the case several years ago when these airlines moved from Orly to Charles De Gaule in Paris. Will Gatwick eventually be closed down completely?

64 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineVirgin747LGW From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2007, 225 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (6 years 7 months 1 week 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 9376 times:



Quoting RampGuy (Thread starter):
Will Gatwick eventually be closed down completely?

lol yes if the likes of qatar, emirates, oasishongkong, monarch, BA, Virgin, Easyjet etc also decide to leave  Wink

i was under the impression US airlines make a small percentage of flights to and from LGW


User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32737 posts, RR: 72
Reply 2, posted (6 years 7 months 1 week 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 9369 times:

There will be plenty of demand between Gatwick and the U.S. to keep the airlines flying there. While service will be reduced to Gatwick, don't expect to see the likes of U.S. airlines leaving anytime soon. Five years from now, I still imagine that AA, CO, DL, NW, and US will be flying to Gatwick - to DFW, EWR, ATL, DTW, and PHL, respectively.

Quoting RampGuy (Thread starter):
This was not the case several years ago when these airlines moved from Orly to Charles De Gaule in Paris.

U.S. airlines were essentially forced to move to CDG. They didn't have a choice. AA did not want to move from Orly and fought pretty hard not to.



a.
User currently offlineDAL767400ER From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (6 years 7 months 1 week 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 9352 times:



Quoting RampGuy (Thread starter):
My question is why would they need/want to remain in Gatwick if Heathrow is the prefered airport they want to be in

Simply put, there are just not enough slots available, let alone at the desired times, for US carriers to move all their flights to LHR. DL got their slots rather cheap from their Joint-Venture partner AF, but at the same time has to live with crappy times, while CO got (some of?) their slots at a premium from GB Airways. And for the US airlines, not all routes are worth spending millions of dollars on slots for it, hence you see DL's CVG flight or CO's CLE flight remaining at LGW. No doubt, if LHR were to get a third runway (yeah right, like the NIMBYs would let that happen) and slot premiums would go down, the US carriers would likely want to move all flights to LHR, but that's still years away.


User currently offlineVhqpa From Australia, joined Jul 2005, 1456 posts, RR: 1
Reply 4, posted (6 years 7 months 1 week 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 9325 times:

Could have something to do with the airlines in question not having enough slots at LHR to support their whole LON operation.



Vhq



"There you go ladies and gentleman we're through Mach 1 the speed of sound no bumps no bangs... CONCORDE"
User currently offlineCOSPN From Northern Mariana Islands, joined Oct 2001, 1619 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (6 years 7 months 1 week 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 9181 times:

Many UK Citizens prefer LGW it has good road access and parking, only problem is lack of onward connections..

User currently onlineFlyKev From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2006, 1382 posts, RR: 1
Reply 6, posted (6 years 7 months 1 week 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 9020 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
FORUM MODERATOR

I can't see the US airlines quitting LGW completely, but I wouldn't be surprised to see them:
a. Downgrade most, if not all op's to 757 (except AA)
b. Cut frequencies to once daily

Quoting RampGuy (Thread starter):
Will Gatwick eventually be closed down completely?

Bit extreme! Considering that BA and Easyjet are the biggest two carriers at LGW now, and the large charter operations from the likes of Thomson and First Choice etc. LGW would never shut down just because a few US carriers left for LHR.

Kev.



The white zone is for immediate loading and unloading of passengers only
User currently offlineRampGuy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (6 years 7 months 1 week 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 8969 times:



Quoting FlyKev (Reply 6):
Bit extreme! Considering that BA and Easyjet are the biggest two carriers at LGW now, and the large charter operations from the likes of Thomson and First Choice etc. LGW would never shut down just because a few US carriers left for LHR.

Let me clarify, I didn't mean that the airport itself would shut down. I meant would DL and CO shut down their operations completely at Gatwick move to Heathrow.


User currently offlineMAS777 From United Kingdom, joined Jul 1999, 2935 posts, RR: 6
Reply 8, posted (6 years 7 months 1 week 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 8837 times:



Quoting Virgin747LGW (Reply 1):
the likes of qatar, emirates, oasishongkong, monarch, BA, Virgin, Easyjet et

and lets not forget Malaysia Airlines trials a twice weekly 777 service to Kuala Lumpur from Gatwick this summer...
but thanks for clarifying your point RampGuy.


User currently offlineColumbia107 From Gibraltar, joined Aug 2004, 358 posts, RR: 2
Reply 9, posted (6 years 7 months 1 week 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 8792 times:



Quoting MAS777 (Reply 8):

Do we know what day of the week the MAS T7s are scheduled to fly into LGW?



In God we trust
User currently offlineCedarjet From United Kingdom, joined May 1999, 8093 posts, RR: 54
Reply 10, posted (6 years 7 months 1 week 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 8756 times:

FYI Gatwick is the busiest single-runway airport in the world, and has the most North American destinations of any European airport (admittedly, CO and DL moving to LHR may affect that). And it's a great airport to fly to and from, probably the best of all the London airports. I prefer LHR for the exotic airlines and vibes but a sane person would plump for LGW. STN and LTN are too low-brow, and further away by rail.


fly Saha Air 707s daily from Tehran's downtown Mehrabad to Mashhad, Kish Island and Ahwaz
User currently offlineUAL777UK From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2005, 3356 posts, RR: 1
Reply 11, posted (6 years 7 months 1 week 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 8700 times:



Quoting Cedarjet (Reply 10):
I prefer LHR for the exotic airlines and vibes but a sane person would plump for LGW

I must be insane then as I would take LHR over LGW any day of the week. Sure LHR has its problems, but apart from more connection choices, connecting by train, car, coach is much more easier IMHO.


User currently offline1peter From Netherlands, joined Jul 2005, 149 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (6 years 7 months 1 week 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 8593 times:

MH will operate ex LGW days 4 and 7.......lets hope it works for them!


Airlines flown; AA, AC, AY, BA, BD, BY, CX, DA, DP, IB, KL, LH, LA, LP, MA & MH
User currently offlineCODC10 From United States of America, joined Jul 2000, 2406 posts, RR: 6
Reply 13, posted (6 years 7 months 1 week 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 8560 times:



Quoting Cedarjet (Reply 10):
(admittedly, CO and DL moving to LHR may affect that)

CO has no plans presently to drop any destinations from LGW. For Summer '08, service is planned 2x to EWR (752), 1x to CLE (752), and 1x to IAH (764). That is a loss of two daily flights on peak days, though significant capacity is dropped with reductions from 3 777s a day to only 1 764 with the 3 752s.

I think CO has to be pretty happy with the timing of the slots they have been able to procure. The schedule looks fairly well-timed and competitive for a new entrant.


User currently offlinePlanesarecool From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2001, 4121 posts, RR: 11
Reply 14, posted (6 years 7 months 1 week 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 8526 times:



Quoting RampGuy (Thread starter):
My question is why would they need/want to remain in Gatwick if Heathrow is the prefered airport they want to be in?

Simply because there is demand for flights to Gatwick. I know at least 8 people living around an hour from San Diego, who currently fly AA via DFW, as apposed to flying direct from LAX-LHR, simply because Gatwick is closer to where they are travelling to, and because they prefer the usually hassle-free Gatwick. The fact that NW are starting a second daily DTW-LON flight just to keep a presence at Gatwick seems to represent this.

There is also the issue of slots. Continental aren't likely to splash out on LHR slots for a relatively low yielding 757 service to Cleveland. Also, many of the US airlines are simply taking what they can get as far as LHR slots, and some of them aren't at the most attractive of times. For example, NW's LHR-DTW flight departs at 08:50. By keeping a flight from Gatwick, they can keep the 13:50 departure time, which in my opinion at least, is far more convenient.

Quoting UAL777UK (Reply 11):
connecting by train, car, coach is much more easier IMHO.

Well it depends where you're going or coming from. For me, Gatwick is far easier to get to by public transport. Simply a 25 minute train journey, whereas Heathrow would require a train to Woking Railair Coach, or a train to London and then a long tube journey. In fact, I'd say that Gatwick has better connections to London itself, baring in mind it has direct rail service to six stations in Central London, including those in the City.


User currently offlineNYCAAer From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 692 posts, RR: 3
Reply 15, posted (6 years 7 months 1 week 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 8483 times:

Everything I've been reading in internal company coomunications at American indicates an eventual move of the reamaining DFW-LGW to LHR. But of course, when and if they ever get a slot is another story.

User currently offlineB752OS From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 1322 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (6 years 7 months 1 week 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 8364 times:

May I ask this question then. Why is Heathrow so important? If a lot of people prefer Gatwick (I personally like Heathrow and have never flown into LGW) then why is Heathrow the choice by BA as their hub and all these U.S. carriers clamoring to get slots? I have heard LHR be called the most important airport in the world so I am just curious. Does LGW have more space for future growth ( new terminals, new or extended runways). Let me say this first, I realize London is a large city and a very important business city, the most important in Europe and it gets a lot of international attention.

User currently offlineN1120A From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 26449 posts, RR: 75
Reply 17, posted (6 years 7 months 1 week 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 8314 times:



Quoting B752OS (Reply 16):
Why is Heathrow so important?

It is older, larger, closer to the part of London most people are going to, has more transport options, more onward connections...



Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
User currently offlineSsides From United States of America, joined Feb 2001, 4059 posts, RR: 21
Reply 18, posted (6 years 7 months 1 week 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 8261 times:



Quoting NYCAAer (Reply 15):
Everything I've been reading in internal company coomunications at American indicates an eventual move of the reamaining DFW-LGW to LHR.

Interesting. I thought I had read that AA is happy to keep one DFW flight to LHR and one to LGW. Personally, if I'm traveling to London for leisure, I greatly prefer LGW. Much less hassle, and the Gatwick Express makes it very convenient.



"Lose" is not spelled with two o's!!!!
User currently offlineBurnsie28 From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 7539 posts, RR: 8
Reply 19, posted (6 years 7 months 1 week 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 8084 times:

NW already said that they will continue to serve London Gatwick from DTW using 757's.


"Some People Just Know How To Fly"- Best slogan ever, RIP NW 1926-2009
User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32737 posts, RR: 72
Reply 20, posted (6 years 7 months 1 week 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 8021 times:



Quoting NYCAAer (Reply 15):
Everything I've been reading in internal company coomunications at American indicates an eventual move of the reamaining DFW-LGW to LHR. But of course, when and if they ever get a slot is another story.

AA has no plans to leave Gatwick.



a.
User currently offlineCommavia From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 11559 posts, RR: 62
Reply 21, posted (6 years 7 months 1 week 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 7997 times:



Quoting NYCAAer (Reply 15):
Everything I've been reading in internal company coomunications at American indicates an eventual move of the reamaining DFW-LGW to LHR. But of course, when and if they ever get a slot is another story.



Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 20):
AA has no plans to leave Gatwick.

I've long contended that the ultimate AA schedule DFW-London will look like this: 50/51 and 78/79 (both of the existing flights) will stay 777s, and move over to LHR. Then, AA will add a third flight, 80/81 (the season flight they added for just one or two summers around 2003-2004) with a 763 that will stay DFW-LGW. There most definitely is still a market at LGW, and always will be, but there will also be - slots eventually permitting - plenty of demand for more DFW-LHR seats due to the huge oneworld hubs at both ends of the route.


User currently offlineFlyASAGuy2005 From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 7004 posts, RR: 11
Reply 22, posted (6 years 7 months 1 week 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 7990 times:



Quoting RampGuy (Thread starter):
So when U.S. carriers like CO and DL begin flying into LHR this year, they are still keep their flights into Gatwick.

Yep.

Quoting RampGuy (Thread starter):
My question is why would they need/want to remain in Gatwick if Heathrow is the prefered airport they want to be in?

Same reason by carriers fly to LGA, and JFK. No, but seriously, the demand is there. It's not going away. Gatwick serves its purpose and will continue to do so.

Quoting RampGuy (Thread starter):
Will Gatwick eventually be closed down completely?



Quoting RampGuy (Reply 7):
I meant would DL and CO shut down their operations completely at Gatwick move to Heathrow.

Nope. They will both still serve LGW.

Quoting FlyKev (Reply 6):
a. Downgrade most, if not all op's to 757

Not Delta. They will contiue to serve LGW with their 763 ops. Some will operate with a 764 and 763 side by side. And contrary to popular belief, T7's are not being sent to LHR. It will be served with 763's too.



What gets measured gets done.
User currently offlinePlanesarecool From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2001, 4121 posts, RR: 11
Reply 23, posted (6 years 7 months 1 week 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 7865 times:



Quoting FlyASAGuy2005 (Reply 22):
Not Delta. They will contiue to serve LGW with their 763 ops. Some will operate with a 764 and 763 side by side. And contrary to popular belief, T7's are not being sent to LHR. It will be served with 763's too.

Delta will operate a daily 757 to Gatwick from JFK this summer, alongside the three 763/4 operations from Atlanta/Cincinnati.


User currently offlineEvan767 From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 2957 posts, RR: 2
Reply 24, posted (6 years 7 months 1 week 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 7756 times:



Quoting Cedarjet (Reply 10):
has the most North American destinations of any European airport (admittedly, CO and DL moving to LHR may affect that).

As just stated, Delta will retain all of it's North American destinations when they start up LHR.

LGW-JFK 752
LGW-CVG 763
LGW-ATL 764
LGW-ATL 763



The proper term is "on final" not "on finals" bud...
25 DeltaL1011man : LGW-JFK 75A LGW-CVG 763 LGW-ATL 763 LGW-ATL 764 LHR-ATL 763 LHR-JFK 763 LHR-JFK 763 i think LHR will become all 764 and i also think we will see SLC-
26 Aisak : One small question. Who chose which terminal for which airline? Because I see strange than both DL and NW (the latter starting LHR on May 2nd) will be
27 DeltaL1011man : NW has 2x DTW 1x MSP 1x SEA CO has 2x EWR 2x IAH
28 LHR777 : Probably something to do with ground handling agents. CO is using KLM Ground Services (KGS) in T4 for everything except lead agents (x6), 2 x duty ma
29 DeltaL1011man : my guess for DL and NW is AF/KL or maybe DGS
30 Post contains links Gomuppets : I think NWA only has 1 flight ex-DTW, not 2. http://www.nwa.com/corpinfo/newsc/2007/pr121120071918.html
31 Cubsrule : Why DFW-LGW rather than ORD-LGW? Chicago is a larger market to London, though DFW is less competitive and (obviously) has historical ties to Gatwick.
32 Aisak : Forgot about SEA and MSP sorry. But I only see one DTW-LHR looking at the Skyteam timetable and nwa.com (from May 1st throughout the summer). SEA wil
33 MAH4546 : Sam reason there is no JFK-LGW or MIA-LGW. They are all heavy O&D markets, and the O&D prefers Heathrow. DFW, while yes a large market to Dallas, is
34 Cubsrule : It seems like if less than 80% of the local traffic that originates in or connects over ORD prefers LHR to LGW, there is a market for ORD-LGW that AA
35 LHR777 : They're actually quite seperate at LHR. KLM Ground Services only operates in Terminal 4, AFSL operates in the central area. Who is DGS? I highly doub
36 Ssides : I agree with all of your analysis -- however, as LHR gets more crowded, I think the distinction will be that leisure O&D will prefer LGW. LHR is obvi
37 Cubsrule : Unless they are going somewhere like KRK, which is only served from LGW. What other (possible onward) destinations are there that only have LGW servi
38 Planesarecool : Bologna Bordeaux Cagliari Catania Dresden Dubrovnik Gibraltar Grenoble Izmir Krakow Marseille Naples Newquay Pisa Pristina Salzburg Sarajevo Tirana T
39 DeltaL1011man : DAL Global Services aka cheap Delta ground services
40 LHR777 : Again, unlikely to be operating at LHR, at least initially. Probably going to an established LHR ground handler, as appears to be the norm at LHR the
41 Goomba : so am I reading this correctly? DL is going to fly a daily 763 and a 764 from ATL to LGW as well as a daily 763 from ATL to LHR as well. Serving both
42 Post contains links Boysteve : Quoting UAL777UK (Reply 11): I must be insane then as I would take LHR over LGW any day of the week. Sure LHR has its problems, but apart from more co
43 Goomba : yeah - but from LHR you can take the Piccadilly Line straight into the center of London in 35 minutes - how is that bad? Granted the Heathrow Express
44 Boysteve : That isn't correct, it's over 45 mins to the West End, up to 1hr to Kings Cross St.Pancras, and you still have to change to get to the City and Canar
45 LAXdude1023 : They could always slice one of the ORD-LHR frequencies and give it to DFW while giving ORD the LGW frequency from DFW. But they wont.
46 NYCAAer : That's what I thought, but in our "Jet News Questions and Answers" section of the website for flight attendants, they indicate a desire to move all D
47 MAH4546 : AA has tried MIA-LGW, BOS-LGW, and ORD-LGW. None lasted more than a year. Interesting. Plans are ever changing in the airline industry, so maybe plan
48 LHR777 : But they were started in 1990/91, before AA inaugurated LHR service. The frequencies were then moved to LHR. I actually flew AA57 LGW-MIA when I join
49 Planesarecool : Eventual plans are to link Heathrow T5 to the South West Trains line at Staines, allowing for new services from the airport to Reading, Guildford and
50 RampGuy : I couldn't agree with you more!!!!
51 Evan767 : ATL-LGW: DL12 764 Dep: 525P Arr: 700A DL58 763 Dep: 645P Arr: 815A ATL-LHR: DL178 763 Dep: 1030P Arr: 1200P
52 VV701 : Like most things to do with travel it is history and geography. The history is that pre World War 2 the likes of Imperial Airways (the forerunner of
53 Commavia : Both MIA-LGW and BOS-LGW were attempted during the summer of 1999, with 767-200ERs. Both failed miserably.
54 MAH4546 : MIA-LGW and BOS-LGW operated alongside LHR flights in 1998.
55 LAXdude1023 : Given the track record of LGW and LHR flights operating alongside each other, do you guys think DFW-LGW will dissappear eventually?
56 MAH4546 : Yes. I think market dynamics are going to chance in the USA-London market, and with a drastic decrease in the amount of USA-LGW services, remaining f
57 Commavia : Again, no, I personally don't. I definitely still think AA will easily be able to support at least one daily 767 to Gatwick, if not more, especially
58 MSYPI7185 : US has already stated that it will downgrade PHL-LGW to 752 and put A330 on PHL-LHR. IIRC CLT- LGW will remain A330. The US carriers want access to LH
59 FlyOakland2IAH : Since for years and years the only non-stop service from IAH to London was via LGW, a lot of oil related businesses have their UK facilities near Gatw
60 LHR777 : I was only recalling the first time around. Thanks for the info guys!
61 Phollingsworth : Yes and no. Physically it is easier to expand LGW than to expand LHR. However, due to an agreement with the surrounding area LGW must remain a single
62 Post contains images GCT64 : There seems to be no mention of AA's new found enthusiasm for service to STN (as well as LHR and LGW). It is very possible that AA will serve three LO
63 Cubsrule : That's correct, though the reasons for that relate to cargo more than anything else. And, for what it's worth, though I understand that AA has never
64 Ssides : (1) Business O&D passengers prefer LHR (2) Connections are better at LHR
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