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Southeast USA Avation Thread #1  
User currently offlineMOBflyer From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 1209 posts, RR: 4
Posted (6 years 7 months 4 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 3150 times:

This thread is for anything and everything relating to aviation in the Southeast. No need to ask for permission to include any state, city, or area. Just keep it positive!

The Gulf Coast, Alabama, and Georgia have recently had aviation threads of their own that, due to the apparent lack of news, have had difficulty in sustaining themselves. Hopefully this will be an opportunity used to keep the worldwide airliners.net community abreast of aviation issues in the Southeast United States!

37 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineMKE22 From United States of America, joined Nov 2007, 1141 posts, RR: 2
Reply 1, posted (6 years 7 months 4 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 3139 times:

Where to begin.

PFN- airport being relocated and rebuilt! As well as new US service

VPS- expanding terminal, and receives new US service, and new consolidated rental car facility all in 2008

PNS- expanding terminal as well, WN to town in the future?

GPT- New terminal right? and new US service

Just to kick things off.



If Your not pissed, your not trying
User currently offlineMOBflyer From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 1209 posts, RR: 4
Reply 2, posted (6 years 7 months 3 weeks 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 3080 times:

Some news articles to ponder....

Quoting MKE22 (Reply 1):
PFN- airport being relocated and rebuilt! As well as new US service

http://www.aero-news.net/index.cfm?C...4cf5d5-4d13-4661-ba05-848635a010fd
http://www.wmbb.com/gulfcoastwest/mb...-articles-MBB-2008-01-23-0005.html
http://www.wmbb.com/gulfcoastwest/mb...-articles-MBB-2007-12-27-0008.html

Quoting MKE22 (Reply 1):
VPS- expanding terminal, and receives new US service, and new consolidated rental car facility all in 2008

http://community.emeraldcoast.com/onset?template=article.html&id=21278

Quoting MKE22 (Reply 1):

PNS- expanding terminal as well, WN to town in the future?

I really hope that WN would go to MOB over PNS or GPT. In MOB, they can easily draw from both of those airports without direct low-cost competition. Just my dreams....


User currently offlineMKE22 From United States of America, joined Nov 2007, 1141 posts, RR: 2
Reply 3, posted (6 years 7 months 3 weeks 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 3038 times:



Quoting MOBflyer (Reply 2):
Some news articles to ponder....

Hmm... I wonder who would start such a rumor. Probably someone to get support for the new PFN but I don't think it is an issue to it competing with VPS for service. I don't think, because PFN and VPS are at least an 1 1/2 hour drive away from each other.



If Your not pissed, your not trying
User currently offlineFlyASAGuy2005 From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 7004 posts, RR: 11
Reply 4, posted (6 years 7 months 3 weeks 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 2992 times:



Quoting MKE22 (Reply 1):
PFN- airport being relocated and rebuilt! As well as new US service

I remember when I first read about this. This must have been way back because when I first heard of the news, they were only planning on expanding the existing airport. But come-on, how big is the PFN market? It sees two airlines currently and will be bumped up to three when US Airways brings back service.

VPS though wa CR7 city for ASA. Almost all the VPS flights I worked in ATL was a 70 seater so I don't see how both can be compared.



What gets measured gets done.
User currently offlineSuper80DFW From United States of America, joined Oct 2007, 1694 posts, RR: 11
Reply 5, posted (6 years 7 months 3 weeks 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 2978 times:



Quoting MKE22 (Reply 1):
PNS- expanding terminal as well, WN to town in the future?

Where have you heard this? It wouldn't happen this year due to the Denver expansion and that will take up all new aircraft to be delivered in 2008, IIRC. I would be great for PNS to get WN service. Lets guess where WN would take PNS: BWI, MCO, HOU, and MDW. Possibly a LAS flight later.



"Things change, friends leave, life doesn't stop for anybody." -- EAT'EM UP EAT'EM UP KSU!!
User currently offlineFlyASAGuy2005 From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 7004 posts, RR: 11
Reply 6, posted (6 years 7 months 3 weeks 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 2912 times:



Quoting Super80DFW (Reply 5):
Denver expansion and that will take up all new aircraft to be delivered in 2008, IIRC

Is it possible for them to pull aircraft from other routes, or become very creative with their routing and not have to do that at all?



What gets measured gets done.
User currently offlineMOBflyer From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 1209 posts, RR: 4
Reply 7, posted (6 years 7 months 3 weeks 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 2896 times:

BHM wants International Service!

http://www.al.com/news/%3Cspan%20sty...e/news/1199178909115370.xml&coll=2


User currently offlineHandcuffs From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 97 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (6 years 7 months 3 weeks 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 2865 times:

The Allegiant Air flight from GPT-LAS vanished, and I am guessing b/c of light loads. I took this flight last June, and it was great. My wife and I went r/t to LAS from GPT and stayed 4 nights for $700. I hated to see Allegiant drop the route. The plane was full both ways, but I guess the new wore off and the loads got a little thin.

HC



Freedom isn't free...peace isn't pretty!!!
User currently offlineMOBflyer From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 1209 posts, RR: 4
Reply 9, posted (6 years 7 months 3 weeks 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 2849 times:



Quoting Super80DFW (Reply 5):
Lets guess where WN would take PNS: BWI, MCO, HOU, and MDW. Possibly a LAS flight later.

Funny thing.... that precisely describes JAN's extent of WN service. I could also see WN going into ORF, maybe JAX, from a Central Gulf Coast airport - hopefully MOB.  Smile

I know JAX was quite unsuccessful on DL's daily CRJ about a year ago now. That route was waaaaay over priced and limited frequency, as well as virtually no connection opportunities, made the route fail. WN could make it work.


User currently offlineFlyASAGuy2005 From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 7004 posts, RR: 11
Reply 10, posted (6 years 7 months 3 weeks 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 2837 times:



Quoting MOBflyer (Reply 7):
BHM wants International Service!

I've heard this a lot over the years. Honestly, I think we'll see an international flight from MSY before we see one from BHM. MSY actually may not be too far fetched. The government may subsidize it to try to bring back traffic levels to what it was pre-Katrina. The US government will have to do something about the situation first because it's quite sad. Anyone been down there lately? I have...



What gets measured gets done.
User currently offlineMOBflyer From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 1209 posts, RR: 4
Reply 11, posted (6 years 7 months 3 weeks 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 2830 times:



Quoting FlyASAGuy2005 (Reply 10):

I've heard this a lot over the years. Honestly, I think we'll see an international flight from MSY before we see one from BHM. MSY actually may not be too far fetched. The government may subsidize it to try to bring back traffic levels to what it was pre-Katrina. The US government will have to do something about the situation first because it's quite sad. Anyone been down there lately? I have...

I, too, believe that MSY could and should see international service before BHM. I think they both, in addition to the likes of JAX and BNA, could at least support less than daily service to CUN and/or NAS.


User currently offlineLexy From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 2515 posts, RR: 8
Reply 12, posted (6 years 7 months 3 weeks 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 2800 times:



Quoting MOBflyer (Reply 11):
BNA, could at least support less than daily service to CUN

BNA already has n/s flights to CUN.



Nashville, Tennessee KBNA
User currently offlineFlight209 From United States of America, joined May 2006, 78 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (6 years 7 months 3 weeks 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 2773 times:



Quoting Handcuffs (Reply 8):
The Allegiant Air flight from GPT-LAS vanished, and I am guessing b/c of light loads.

Might fuel costs be the real culprit? Last month, G4 said that was the reason it's ending TYS-LAS service on February 26:

http://knoxnews.com/news/2007/dec/21...alting-flights-knoxville-las-vegas

Once that goes away, G4's TYS operation will resemble the one at CHA, concentrating on flights to PIE, SFB, and FLL.

Speaking of TYS and CHA, is TYS's catchment area that much bigger than CHA's, or is CHA just that much a victim of proximity to ATL and BNA?

* CO flies to all three of its mainland U.S. hubs from TYS, but only to IAH from CHA.
* NW flies to all three of its U.S. hubs from TYS, but only to MEM from CHA.
* While CHA must settle for flights to just ATL and CVG on DL, TYS gets DL service to those hubs (including mainline flights to ATL) plus LGA and MCO.
* Star Alliance loyalists are definitely better off in the Marble City than in the Scenic City. At TYS, UA flies to DEN, ORD, and IAD, and US flies to CLT, DCA, and PHL. At CHA, US is Star's only representative, and serves only CLT and DCA.
* The only legacy airline whose TYS and CHA ops have anything close to parity is AA, and even then, AA gives TYS a 3-to-2 edge on daily ORD flights (in addition to UA's four daily TYS-ORD offerings) and a 4-to-1 edge on daily DFW flights.



I may question your opinion, but I'll never question your right to it.
User currently offlineLexy From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 2515 posts, RR: 8
Reply 14, posted (6 years 7 months 3 weeks 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 2765 times:

Knoxville is bigger than Chattanooga both in city size and MSA which would explain the extra services there. Plus, yes, I think it's safe to say that CHA is a victim of it's location close to ATL and BNA.


Nashville, Tennessee KBNA
User currently offlineFlyASAGuy2005 From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 7004 posts, RR: 11
Reply 15, posted (6 years 7 months 3 weeks 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 2736 times:



Quoting Flight209 (Reply 13):
or is CHA just that much a victim of proximity to ATL and BNA?



Quoting Lexy (Reply 14):
Plus, yes, I think it's safe to say that CHA is a victim of it's location close to ATL and BNA.

Not necessarily. CHA serves its purpose to the community and will continue to enjoy the level of service they get.



What gets measured gets done.
User currently offlineLexy From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 2515 posts, RR: 8
Reply 16, posted (6 years 7 months 3 weeks 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 2692 times:



Quoting FlyASAGuy2005 (Reply 15):
Not necessarily. CHA serves its purpose to the community and will continue to enjoy the level of service they get.

I should've said it wasn't 100% affected by BNA and ATL, but you can't deny the fact that those two airports pull from the potential CHA marketshare. You would be fooling yourself if you thought otherwise. Interesting to note, there is a shuttle service that is ran between Chattanooga and both Nashville and Atlanta multiple times a day for the airports in those respective cities. There is obviously something there, or they wouldn't be running those.



Nashville, Tennessee KBNA
User currently offlineFlight209 From United States of America, joined May 2006, 78 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (6 years 7 months 3 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 2648 times:

I'm quite aware of Knoxville's having more residents than Chattanooga and of CHA's struggles to keep pax away from ATL and BNA; I, for one, am guilty of opting for BNA once during my latest stint of life in the CHA area in order to have one fewer connection on an airline serving both airports. My question was essentially about the degree of those issues and about which issue has more of an effect on the levels of airline service at TYS and CHA, as TYS's advantage in that category just seems so, for lack of a simpler term, exponential. Also, rarely does a week go by that I don't see at least one ATL- or BNA-bound shuttle van from the CHA area's Groome Transportation, which uses its fleet as rolling billboards for "19 daily trips to Atlanta" and "14 daily trips to Nashville".

In particular, UA's absence from CHA is slightly puzzling to me.

1. UA served CHA during the seventeen years between its merger with Capital Airlines and deregulation. Capital, in turn, had been flying to CHA for thirteen or so years when UA absorbed it. While deregulation freed U.S. airlines from the need to serve unviable or otherwise unattractive domestic destinations, one would think that the "heritage" that Capital and UA built up at CHA would (or at least could) have counted for something in terms of profit, market share, etc. right after deregulation.
2. Besides BNA, TYS, and ATL, UA serves a fourth airport within a two-and-a-half-hour drive from Chattanooga -- HSV, where pax can take the Tulip-U to DEN and IAD. Chattanooga proper has a slightly larger population than Huntsville proper, and Chattanooga's MSA has over 100,000 more inhabitants than Huntsville's. Also, while HSV appears to be a "safe" distance from ATL, it probably shares CHA's problem of trying to discourage pax from using BNA. However, I will admit that military- and NASA-related pax traffic might be enough to lead an airline to fly to HSV but not CHA.

[Edited 2008-01-30 10:37:28]


I may question your opinion, but I'll never question your right to it.
User currently offlineMOBflyer From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 1209 posts, RR: 4
Reply 18, posted (6 years 7 months 3 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 2613 times:



Quoting Flight209 (Reply 17):
Also, while HSV appears to be a "safe" distance from ATL, it probably shares CHA's problem of trying to discourage pax from using BNA. However, I will admit that military- and NASA-related pax traffic might be enough to lead an airline to fly to HSV but not CHA.

You are right about the military and NASA traffic. They also have Cummings Research Park, second only to the Research Triangle Park in RDU. CHA also has much better road access to ATL than HSV. HSV loses a significant amount of traffic to both BNA and BHM. Airlines are in HSV for the high yields.


User currently offlineHSVflier From United States of America, joined Jan 2008, 118 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (6 years 7 months 3 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 2565 times:

i would have to disagree that HSV traffic suffers from ATL, a four hour drive to catch a flight is unreasonable for a city with a higher than average income level. but i agree that the WN affect is felt in HSV with them flying into BNA and BHM. Also, HSV has a master plan to build 3 more runways at 12000 ft each, there long term goal is to become a reliever airport for ATL conecting traffic, but i say fat chance. But i must say i don't mind paying 20 bucks more tofly out of HSV and not have to pay to park or drive 1 1/2 hours to catch a flight.


Flown DL, UA, CO, WN, LH, TZ, WO, AA, US, LO, HA, PX, NW, KE, AB, QR, LX, EE, 5Y
User currently offlineMOBflyer From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 1209 posts, RR: 4
Reply 20, posted (6 years 7 months 3 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 2554 times:



Quoting HSVflier (Reply 19):
to build 3 more runways at 12000 ft each,

Welcome to the board, HSVflier!

That sounds quite cool - they currently have the best setup of any commercial airfield in Alabama. I have to question the anticipated demand for 5 parallel runways, though. What's the time line in the master plan?


User currently offlineHSVflier From United States of America, joined Jan 2008, 118 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (6 years 7 months 3 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 2545 times:

Over the last oh id say 10 to 15 years the airport authority has been buying up as much land as possible. they currently own more land than ATL and plan on buying more. the time line for more runways im not sure about but they must be getting serious because when i flew home at christmas they had a super imposed image of what the airport will look lke on a aerial photo of the existing property and a video showing the stages that construction will take place. And HSV is trying to get more cargo carriers to have operations in HSV. Constuction has also begun to expand the terminal and the parking garage is being added to in order to double capacity. But i think the actual construction on the runways is about 10 to 15 years away, although from what i understand they already have the money mostly from private investors. lastly, my belief is that HSV will not be able to be a reliever airport to ATL but has the potential to be a major cargo hub as it is already the busiest cargo airport in the state and Huntsville is growing very rapidly. But most of my information is coming form internet searches so my sources could be wrong on the timeline of constructing the runways but teh ambition is certainly high. i appologize for my writting, head is faster than my fingers.


Flown DL, UA, CO, WN, LH, TZ, WO, AA, US, LO, HA, PX, NW, KE, AB, QR, LX, EE, 5Y
User currently offlineFlight209 From United States of America, joined May 2006, 78 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (6 years 7 months 3 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 2523 times:



Quoting HSVflier (Reply 19):
i would have to disagree that HSV traffic suffers from ATL, a four hour drive to catch a flight is unreasonable for a city with a higher than average income level. but i agree that the WN affect is felt in HSV with them flying into BNA and BHM.

I wholeheartedly agree that ATL doesn't hurt HSV the way BHM and BNA do or the way ATL and BNA hurt CHA. I'm sorry if I gave the impression that I thought otherwise.

Quoting HSVflier (Reply 21):
lastly, my belief is that HSV will not be able to be a reliever airport to ATL but has the potential to be a major cargo hub as it is already the busiest cargo airport in the state and Huntsville is growing very rapidly.

Barring the slim chance that I-565 gets lengthened eastward to I-24, I-59, or especially I-75, HSV is indeed much better off focusing on luring more cargo traffic. CHA, meanwhile, faces the opposite issue as a reliever for ATL -- being relatively close and accessible to the Atlanta area (particularly the affluent, continually growing northern suburbs), but having almost no room to expand, let alone easily handle anything larger than a 739 or A321.



I may question your opinion, but I'll never question your right to it.
User currently offlineHSVflier From United States of America, joined Jan 2008, 118 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (6 years 7 months 3 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 2514 times:

Thats funny you say that I-565 gets lengthened, because the DOT approved the Memphis-Huntsville-Atlanta Highway about three years ago so yes in theory they are definitely lengthining I-565 but im not sure if that stretch of road will be included in the new road. however, as we all know building an interstate does'nt happen overnight.


Flown DL, UA, CO, WN, LH, TZ, WO, AA, US, LO, HA, PX, NW, KE, AB, QR, LX, EE, 5Y
User currently offlineLoneStarMike From United States of America, joined Jul 2000, 3826 posts, RR: 33
Reply 24, posted (6 years 7 months 2 weeks 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 2458 times:

I see where BHM reported a record year for passengers.

From the Birmingham News

Quote:
More than 3.2 million travelers used Birmingham International Airport in 2007, setting a new annual passenger record for Alabama's largest airport.

The previous mark was 3.14 million passengers in 2005, airport managers said Tuesday.

The 257,366 passengers served by the airport's eight major airlines in December was a record for the month. Plus, it was the ninth straight month in 2007 that the Birmingham Airport Authority saw an increase in traffic from the same month in 2006.

Total passenger count for the year was 3,222,689 passengers. Al Denson, BHM's executive director, noted that 2007 was a very significant year. In addition to a record number of passengers, BHM also completed a runway extension project, and added 12 flights to its flight schedule.

Although not aviation related, Forbes had an extensive article on the fastest growing metro areas in terms of gross metropolitan product (GMP) and several cities in the Southeast made the list.

America's Fastest-Growing Metros

Quote:
It's no secret that the Southeast and Western United States are booming. The costs of living and doing business there are often cheaper there than in big coastal cities. But where and how much those cities are thriving might surprise you.

Take Alabama. The state has some of the fastest growing metro areas in the country, including Mobile, which is projected to have the greatest change in "gross metropolitan product (GMP)," 34% between 2007-2012, according to research forecasts done for us by Moody's Economy.com.

One boon to Alabama is Thyssen Krupp's announcement last year to build a $3.7 billion steel plant in Mobile. And Huntsville--expected GMP growth 15% by 2012--has long been a hub for defense and space research. Since the mid-1990s, Alabama has also become a manufacturing center for automakers like DaimlerChrysler (nyse: DCX - news - people ), Toyota (nyse: TM - news - people ) and Hyundai.

"The automotive industry has been Alabama's real growth industry in the last 15 years," says Brian Hilson, president and CEO of Huntsville's chamber of commerce.

The study looked at the 363 metropolitan areas in the US, and placed each city in one of two categories. The first category was "large metro areas." Cities in this category are in the top 100 metro areas and have a metro population of at least 528,000. The remaining cities were in a separate category - "small metro areas." Among all large cities, AUS came out on top. Among cities in the small metro areas category, Mobile was the winner, and Mobile's projected percentage change in gross metropolitan product (GMP) was higher than Austin.

You can read more about the 20 metro areas profiled (the top 10 in each category) by clicking on the "In Pictures: America's Fastest-Growing Large And Small Metros" link in the story above.

Among large metro areas, the following cities in the Southeast made the list:

Rank - Metro Area

2, Cape Coral/Fort Myers, FL
3. Atlanta, GA,
9. Orlando, FL
10. Palm Bay/Melbourne/Titusville, FL

Among small metro areas, the following cities in the Southeast made the list

Rank - Metro Area

1. Mobile, AL
3. Palm Coast, FL (Between St. Augustine and Daytona Beach)
4. Huntsville, AL
6. Auburn Opelika, AL
8. Port St. Lucie, FL
9. Gulfport/Biloxi, MS
10. Naples/Marco Island, FL

LoneStarMike:


25 MSYguy : Interesting -- I would have thought that Mobile's metro area population exceeded 528,000 (putting it in the "large" category). But good for Mobile!
26 MOBflyer : Mobile Metropolitan Statistical Area: 400K Mobile/Daphne-Fairhope Combined Statistical Area: 580K
27 Sparky35805 : Some interesting thoughts on HSV.50 years ago yesterday,Jan 31 1958,Americas first satellite was launched into orbit by a modified Redstone rocket,dev
28 FlyASAGuy2005 : Another thread has been started on this topic but it's ripe for the picking here. PNS to get x2 daily 757's. Now, this is not shock and awe to me as D
29 MOBflyer : MOB, BHM, HSV, PNS, MSY, JAN + many more!
30 MSYtristar : Pretty much the entire I-10 Southern corridor, for starters... BTR,MSY,GPT,MOB,PNS,VPS,TLH,JAX
31 FlyASAGuy2005 : What I think should happen on with the Georgia-ATL market on a whole (cities like VLD and BQK) had Delta kept most of the ATR ops for ASA, maybe wwe w
32 MOBflyer : I agree. The time and speed difference is minimal on those very short flights. What MCN needs is service to another (read: worthwhile) hub, namely CL
33 FlyASAGuy2005 : Well, I did a few sample fares for MCN to various cities and the average premium for flying MCN via ATL to another city, vice ATL to the other city w
34 MOBflyer : I'm not sure how scientific your sampling was, but it hit the nail on the head! Per the latest DOT O&D filings (3Q07), the average roundtrip fare out
35 FlyASAGuy2005 : If my memory serves me right, I remember a few weeks ago Delta was to pull service from Macon but haven't seen anything since.
36 GSPSPOT : GSP is in a similar situation with ATL and CLT nearby (the Airtan Effect???). However, as GSP's region is booming with businesses either moving here
37 AmtrakGuy : Could someone tell me more about St. Augustine, Florida? The last time I visited last March for a wedding, I was shocked to see St. Augustine has beco
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