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Are Air Canada And WestJet Avoiding New Service @ Winnipeg?  
User currently offlineYwg777 From Canada, joined Oct 1999, 1264 posts, RR: 1
Posted (6 years 7 months 1 week 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 6346 times:

Hello Everyone,

In the last few months Airlines in Canada have been adding frequiency to every major canadian city but Winnipeg. Id like to know why Air Canada and Westjet are avoding adding any services to this city of nearly 700,000 people. Winnipeg is not only lacking Domestic services were also lacking flights to the US and an International Connection. In the last year Delta came and pulled out, United added a 3rd Denver flight in Delta's replacement which has done really well with the CRJ-200, First Air has added Winnipeg-Thompson-Rankin Inlet 6 days a week which has proven to be an essintal link to the North and the rumor I herd is theres talks about adding a flight to Yellowknife and Iqualit in the near future.. Air Canada axed London Ontario and downgraded Thunder Bay to 1 flight a day. According to the 2007 business plan the WAA mentioned that routes with a "high priorty" are Winnipeg-Halifax, Winnipeg-Victoria, Winnipeg-Los Angeles and or San Francisco, Winnipeg-New York City.

What does everyone think about this?

52 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineYOWza From Canada, joined Jul 2005, 4882 posts, RR: 15
Reply 1, posted (6 years 7 months 1 week 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 6269 times:

Probably just lack (or perceived lack) of demand. Carriers are not going to just add capacity because they have free cycles and slots... I don't really think YWG serves a population that has a need for that much service. I could be wrong.

YOWza



12A whenever possible.
User currently offlineAvt007 From Canada, joined Jul 2000, 2132 posts, RR: 5
Reply 2, posted (6 years 7 months 1 week 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 6224 times:

What's the population relative to the other "major" cities? And what are the main industries? Is there a single large employer that would have large amounts of business travel? I've only been there once, last month, but AC offered 3 direct YVR-YWG, plus 3 other options through YYC or YEG per day. That seemed like decent service to me.

User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32736 posts, RR: 72
Reply 3, posted (6 years 7 months 1 week 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 6204 times:

Most U.S. cities the small size of Winnipeg would give an arm and a leg for the services they have.

Winnipeg is very well-served, as are most Canadian cities, as much as locals around Canada love to complain about why their city of than 1,000,000 doesn't have two daily flights to Europe.



a.
User currently offlineSLCUT2777 From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 4050 posts, RR: 11
Reply 4, posted (6 years 7 months 1 week 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 6158 times:



Quoting Ywg777 (Thread starter):
In the last year Delta came and pulled out,

I really think DL came in just to see what could be done with one remaining western Canadian city with a DHS/USC&BP pre-clearence facility since SLC lacks a very good set-up. This along with the fact that SLC has very good west coast connections, something the WAA indicates in their plan of action.
I think DL/OO could do better for SLC service from the two Saskatchewan airports at YQR & YXE given the proximity of YWG to MSP and SkyTeam partner NW. Also one additional airport in Alberta at YQL could work quite well for them since there is a significant amount of O&D on such a route. But all three mentioned above lack pre-clearence facilities and when the destination airport isn't well set-up, it limits the options of the carrier which trans-border routes to serve from that particular hub. DL plans to do SLC-CDG starting in June, and DHS has plans to hire and bring in more officers to SLC, and hopefully the Department of Airports will address the facility issues to deal with this since customs continues to be the biggest drag for SLC.
A DL/NW merger could bring SLC service from all significant western Canadian airports though, stay tuned....



DELTA Air Lines; The Only Way To Fly from Salt Lake City; Let the Western Heritage always be with Delta!
User currently offlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 25170 posts, RR: 22
Reply 5, posted (6 years 7 months 1 week 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 6115 times:

Quoting YOWza (Reply 1):
Probably just lack (or perceived lack) of demand. Carriers are not going to just add capacity because they have free cycles and slots... I don't really think YWG serves a population that has a need for that much service. I could be wrong.

The YWG (and Manitoba) economy has been relatively stagnant for years. It doesn't generate the same volume of traffic as booming markets like YYC and YEG, and particularly not the profitable high-yield business traffic. YWG was the 3rd largest city in Canada for years, until about the 1940s. Even in the 1950s and 1960s YWG was much bigger than YYC and YEG. Now YWG is the 8th largest city in Canada.

[Edited 2008-01-25 14:10:33]

User currently offlineSLCUT2777 From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 4050 posts, RR: 11
Reply 6, posted (6 years 7 months 1 week 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 6099 times:



Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 3):
Most U.S. cities the small size of Winnipeg would give an arm and a leg for the services they have.

Compare YWG with OMA or DSM, and I think that would sum it all up quite well. I think many in YWG still lament the loss of the NHL Jets to PHX earlier this decade.

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 3):
Winnipeg is very well-served, as are most Canadian cities, as much as locals around Canada love to complain about why their city of than 1,000,000 doesn't have two daily flights to Europe.

Keep in mind that the number of Canadians holding a passport compared to Americans is more than double percentage wise. I'm sure YWG does get summer charters to Europe as well as winter charters to Mexico and the Dominican Republic.



DELTA Air Lines; The Only Way To Fly from Salt Lake City; Let the Western Heritage always be with Delta!
User currently offlinePe@rson From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2001, 19215 posts, RR: 52
Reply 7, posted (6 years 7 months 1 week 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 6080 times:

Anyone know the O&D between YWG and MSP? And for that matter, YUL, YYC and YYZ? Cheers.


"Everyone writing for the Telegraph knows that the way to grab eyeballs is with Ryanair and/or sex."
User currently offlineSLCUT2777 From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 4050 posts, RR: 11
Reply 8, posted (6 years 7 months 1 week 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 6073 times:



Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 5):
The YWG (and Manitoba) economy has been relatively stagnant for years. It doesn't generate the same volume of traffic as booming markets like YYC and YEG, and particularly not the profitable high-yield business traffic. YWG was the 3rd largest city in Canada for years, until about the 1940s. Even in the 1950s and 1960s YWG was much bigger than YYC and YEG. Now YWG is the 8th largest city in Canada.

Which is why I don't think you'll see the NHL in any hurry to return to YWG. The stagnation you mention also effects the Dakotas and Nebraska in particular south of the 49th, as well as Saskatchewan and Manitoba.



DELTA Air Lines; The Only Way To Fly from Salt Lake City; Let the Western Heritage always be with Delta!
User currently offlineC172Akula From Canada, joined Mar 2001, 1000 posts, RR: 4
Reply 9, posted (6 years 7 months 1 week 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 6003 times:



Quoting SLCUT2777 (Reply 8):
as well as Saskatchewan and Manitoba.

Keep an eye on Saskatchewan, they are on the up and up. Lots of resources up north just like in Alberta and the companies are taking notice and setting up shop.


User currently offlineTango-Bravo From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 3805 posts, RR: 29
Reply 10, posted (6 years 7 months 1 week 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 5910 times:

For decades, perhaps longer, it seems that YWG has been largely "overlooked" by airlines on both sides of the border. Since Winnipeg is Canada's 4th largest(?) city there must be a reason. Perhaps because the YWG catchment area outside of the Winnipeg city limits is very sparsely populated whereas the areas surrounding Canada's other major cities are heavily populated?

User currently offlineScrubbsYWG From Canada, joined Mar 2007, 1495 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (6 years 7 months 1 week 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 5867 times:



Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 5):
The YWG (and Manitoba) economy has been relatively stagnant for years. It doesn't generate the same volume of traffic as booming markets like YYC and YEG, and particularly not the profitable high-yield business traffic. YWG was the 3rd largest city in Canada for years, until about the 1940s. Even in the 1950s and 1960s YWG was much bigger than YYC and YEG. Now YWG is the 8th largest city in Canada.

actually, lately we have been doing fairly well economy wise recently. We are a manufacturing sector based economy, so the dollar isn't helping, but we are still projected to grow fairly well for 2008. I think i read a story not too long ago that said winnipeg's economy was going grow at a rate that was third only behind edmonton and calgary. Here are a couple stories showing what i am saying. Winnipeg will never be as big as calgary or edmonton unless oil tanks hardcore which i can't see happening. We have plenty of hydro power along with a still strong manufacturing sector. The other day, they announced 192 million in investments in the aircraft sector as part of the new defense plane contract. I recently read Buhler(they make tractors), a comany that used to me local but was bought out by a russian company, is expecting their sales to double in the next year or so. I wouldnt exactly call our economy 'stagnant' at this point anymore.


As far as new airplane routes? i can't see much coming here though.

And yes, we do get Zoom flying direct to gatwick during the summers.

http://www.thesudburystar.com/ArticleDisplay.aspx?e=871723


http://www.cbc.ca/canada/manitoba/story/2008/01/21/wpg-economy.html


User currently offlineJamincan From Canada, joined Aug 2006, 775 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (6 years 7 months 1 week 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 5792 times:



Quoting Tango-Bravo (Reply 10):
For decades, perhaps longer, it seems that YWG has been largely "overlooked" by airlines on both sides of the border. Since Winnipeg is Canada's 4th largest(?) city there must be a reason. Perhaps because the YWG catchment area outside of the Winnipeg city limits is very sparsely populated whereas the areas surrounding Canada's other major cities are heavily populated?

It's actually the eight largest city now, behind YYZ, YUL, YVR, YOW, YYC, YEG, and YQB, and you're quite correct, YWG doesn't have much of a hinterland. I'd have to say that YWG doesn't have a lot to complain about. It's service is pretty spectacular compared to YQB and not much lower than YOW. It seems to be very well served from WS - I'm guessing it's probably their 5th largest station after YVR, YYC, YEG, and YYZ. The only major holes in their network are to the US, where it could probably support service to LGA and LAX for starters; however, I suspect that the distance might be an issue.


User currently offlineCitrusCritter From Pitcairn Islands, joined May 2007, 1098 posts, RR: 3
Reply 13, posted (6 years 7 months 1 week 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 5761 times:



Quoting Tango-Bravo (Reply 10):
Winnipeg is Canada's 4th largest(?) city

7th city/8th metropolitan area



TLH
User currently offlineAC183 From Canada, joined Jul 1999, 1532 posts, RR: 2
Reply 14, posted (6 years 7 months 1 week 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 5729 times:

Perhaps part of the reason the large amounts of new service hasn't been received was because YWG has had fairly good service for a long time. While routes like YYZ-AUS might catch the headlines, reality is that many many many more people fly YYZ-YUL. The core route network is much more important to most of the travelling public than the new routes that serve more niche markets.

YWG has service that is nonstop, with both AC and WS operating competing nonstops on it to basically all of the major Canadian markets, and there's a decent number of US nonstop flights to DEN, LAS, PHX, ORD, MSP. Don't forget that even though YEG has had tremendous gains in the last few years, some of those gains have been catchup in markets YWG has maintained service to for decades (YXE and YUL come to mind as two that were on-and-off for a while) - and I say good for YEG, with all the population and economic growth, it was a long time coming.

As to new service, while there's a few gaps that have potential to fill in, I don't see a lot happening until the new terminal opens in two years time, offering better facilities for O&D as well as connecting passengers, and better gate positions and slot times for airlines. Even then most service changes will be, as they are now, capacity changes which tend to be more less trumpeted about than new routes. It's going to be interesting, but don't expect press releases every week for crying out loud.


User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32736 posts, RR: 72
Reply 15, posted (6 years 7 months 1 week 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 5723 times:



Quoting Jamincan (Reply 12):
The only major holes in their network are to the US, where it could probably support service to LGA and LAX for starters;

YWG-LGA can't happen since it is outside the perimeter. YWG could have flights to EWR/JFK, but the idea of those succeeding is laughable. Calgary just recently got NYC service about two years ago for the first time, and Edmonton still doesn't have it.

Westjet announced YWG-LAX in June 2005 for an October 2005 launch. Advanced bookings were poor, and the flight never launched, being canceled by September.



a.
User currently offlineScrubbsYWG From Canada, joined Mar 2007, 1495 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (6 years 7 months 1 week 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 5720 times:

the one i would personally love to see is an AC link to europe, but that is pretty much out of the questions i suppose. Zoom doesn't even fly daily to gatwick during the summers so i doubt there would be a market right now. Could that be something that AC will use 787s for when they get them?

User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32736 posts, RR: 72
Reply 17, posted (6 years 7 months 1 week 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 5712 times:

Quoting ScrubbsYWG (Reply 16):
Could that be something that AC will use 787s for when they get them?

I doubt it. 787s won't suddenly make YWG-Europe viable. What they will make viable, trans-Atlantic wise, is thinner markets between large cities with existing service (i.e. SFO-DME, MIA-MAN, YYZ-GLA).

The 787 isn't going to open up cities without existing trans-Atlantic service to new flights, it is simply going to connect more pairs of cities that already have trans-Atlantic flights.

[Edited 2008-01-25 17:33:56]


a.
User currently offlineAC183 From Canada, joined Jul 1999, 1532 posts, RR: 2
Reply 18, posted (6 years 7 months 1 week 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 5683 times:

I always get interested in the potential for YQL service, but consider the O&D market for YYC-SLC - it is only 4470 northbound /4700 southbound annually (Statscan figures). That works out to 12.56 passengers per day each way - everybody else on YYC-SLC is connecting, and that's assuming nobody connects in DEN or SEA for FFP loyalty. Even if you assume Lethbridge has twice the per-capita demand for SLC service as YYC, it only works out to about 2-3 passengers per day O&D (and that's using a greater Lethbridge area from the census as the catchment, not just the city proper). That just doesn't justify a nonstop. And not to be skeptical, but I have a hard time seeing the demand materialize from YQL until there's an east-west market. YHM is a good example of this - the airport languished in spite of having service to the US until there was a basic domestic service level established there. Besides which, YQL has less US business travel, and more leisure - which would give lower yields, making RJ economics tougher.

What YQL really needs is CRJ service on an east-west basis. The market is there. Even if YQL has a per-capita demand a fraction the size of Calgary's, there's demand to run CRJ's to Vancouver. As someone who's flown into / out of Lethbridge a few times this year, I'd like to also see YWG, somewhat selfishly. Most baggage tags I saw at YQL was headed to YVR / YEG / YWG / YLW.



FWIW, I think a big part of the reason YWG-SLC died so quickly was partly because of very very poor marketing on DL's part (it's like NW/DL had never heard of each other), and also that DL really hadn't cornered any part of the market - YWG-DEN offered a better schedule, better connections, and marketing by UA/AC. I would have to agree, though, YXE or YQR would both make interesting routings for SLC, because it would probably be a preferred routing for many destinations. Although it would have to compete with a good number of YYC connections, and the lack of O&D demand would also be a risk factor, but YXE/YQR-SLC *might* be able to muscle in there.


User currently offlineThreepoint From Canada, joined Oct 2005, 2130 posts, RR: 9
Reply 19, posted (6 years 7 months 1 week 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 5624 times:



Quoting SLCUT2777 (Reply 6):
I think many in YWG still lament the loss of the NHL Jets to PHX earlier this decade.

The lamenting extends far beyond Winnipeg.

Quoting SLCUT2777 (Reply 8):
Which is why I don't think you'll see the NHL in any hurry to return to YWG.

The NHL won't, you're right, but they could make a very good business case for it. they just wouldn't want to admit the aggressive US growth in such hockey towns as Tampa, Columbus, Phoenix and Nashville are faring poorly. With today's dollar and improved corporate support, the new Jets would thrive. Minneapolis got their team back. Hopefully so will Winnipeg.

Quoting SLCUT2777 (Reply 8):
The stagnation you mention also effects ....... as well as Saskatchewan

Saskatchewan is the new Alberta. It's the opposite of stagnant.

Quoting AC183 (Reply 18):
(it's like NW/DL had never heard of each other)

Well, they know each other intimately now.



The nice thing about a mistake is the pleasure it gives others.
User currently offlineSLCUT2777 From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 4050 posts, RR: 11
Reply 20, posted (6 years 7 months 1 week 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 5620 times:



Quoting AC183 (Reply 18):
I always get interested in the potential for YQL service, but consider the O&D market for YYC-SLC - it is only 4470 northbound /4700 southbound annually (Statscan figures).

Much of the YYC traffic heading to SLC (typically 2-3 CRJ flights per day) is from the greater YQL realm or catchment area (Magrath, Raymond, Cardston etc...), or connecting to go elsewhere (TUC, YUM, BUR, SNA, ONT, PSP or Florida at this time of year etc...) Also a large number of people in that area drive south across the border to GTF and FCA to pick-up flights, much via SLC on DL/OO. I'm not sure if there are adequate numbers available on that, but I'm told by my DL sources that this is a large factor into why there are as many frequencies from these two Montana airports. I agree that YQL needs YVR and YYZ service on AC Jazz as well as better service to YYC (since it is over a two hour drive typically) and YEG.

Quoting AC183 (Reply 18):
I would have to agree, though, YXE or YQR would both make interesting routings for SLC, because it would probably be a preferred routing for many destinations. Although it would have to compete with a good number of YYC connections, and the lack of O&D demand would also be a risk factor, but YXE/YQR-SLC *might* be able to muscle in there.

If a DL/NW merger reaches fruition, I think this might end up being the case, but as I eluded to above, the customs desk at SLC leaves much to be desired, and hurts SLC and its ability to connect to many other North American cities lacking a pre-clearence facility. Something that has not gone un-noticed by the DL network planning people. I think part of the DL service forthcoming SLC-CDG is to get this worked out as an incentive.



DELTA Air Lines; The Only Way To Fly from Salt Lake City; Let the Western Heritage always be with Delta!
User currently offlineYwg777 From Canada, joined Oct 1999, 1264 posts, RR: 1
Reply 21, posted (6 years 7 months 1 week 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 5097 times:

Winnipeg can support a flight to LGA as were barely inside the perimeter range for that airport. Since LGA gets daily DEN flights with Frontier and thats more west then YWG. Westjet does have 3X a week flights to PHX but thats on a seasonal basis. The Vegas flights go year round but down to 2x a week in the summer months.

Skywest does well here but as you know with the CRJ-200's you get many baggage issues with them and load restrictions. I can't figure out why theres 4 flights a day to ORD that only 2 of them goes out almost full. ORD flights here alot of the time get cancelled and it makes a mess for everyone. I also can't figure out the business side of this flight. What is in Chicago that the people in Winnipeg fly down for day in and day out? I know Winnipeg has been called "the Chicago of the north". I truely think the First flight out to ORD should be the larger CR7 since it goes out usually 95% full and have the last flight in as the same aircraft for the overnighter.

I argree witH you 100% AC183 on the poor marketing by DL when they were up here. I also beleive that the route failed because when they first started off here the flight left at 9am and wasn't doing bad for loads (80%) then when DL got this idea of pushing the flight back to a 6:30am departure with in 3 months the route flopped. I still highly beleive this city can support 3 US airlines up here. I know people want a direct link down to the south (Texas) and Im sure Winnipeg is on CO's and AA's radar screen from DFW and IAH.

Id like to see First Air expand more out of here to YZF and YFB I think would good idea as this way you can make connections to the US from YWG over say YEG and YOW. What do you think of this idea?


User currently offlineBAKJet From United States of America, joined Nov 2007, 744 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (6 years 7 months 1 week 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 5066 times:



Quoting Ywg777 (Reply 21):
I know Winnipeg has been called "the Chicago of the north".

What resemblance does Winnipeg have to Chicago?


User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32736 posts, RR: 72
Reply 23, posted (6 years 7 months 1 week 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 5058 times:



Quoting Ywg777 (Reply 21):
Winnipeg can support a flight to LGA as were barely inside the perimeter range for that airport. Since LGA gets daily DEN flights with Frontier and thats more west then YWG.

I stand corrected. YWG is actually within the LaGuardia perimeter at 1,293mi. That, of course, doesn't mean a flight is going to happen, because the market is still too small.

Denver, however, is not within the LaGuardia perimeter. It's outside of it. However, when the perimeter was put into place, Denver already had flights to LaGuardia, so Denver was grandfathered in and is allowed flights to LaGuardia, even though it is not within the 1,500 mile perimeter.



a.
User currently offlinePe@rson From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2001, 19215 posts, RR: 52
Reply 24, posted (6 years 7 months 1 week 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 5057 times:



Quoting BAKJet (Reply 22):
What resemblance does Winnipeg have to Chicago?

It´s cold?



"Everyone writing for the Telegraph knows that the way to grab eyeballs is with Ryanair and/or sex."
25 Post contains links ScrubbsYWG : This was a moniker winnipeg was known for around the time of the turn of the 19/20th centuries. Winnipeg was on track to be a huge centre but the pan
26 Lexy : Oh here we go with this crap again. AND AGAIN! Nashville is a VIBRANT economy that is well diversified. The NHL knows this and they know they stand a
27 MattRB : My guess would be the Chicago Mercantile Exchange..
28 Post contains links ScrubbsYWG : here is what we got essentially: from http://www.destinationwinnipeg.ca/wpgadvantage It sums up what we've got, but i still wouldnt call winnipeg the
29 Post contains images SLCUT2777 : MSP is at least 3-4 times the market that YWG is. I doubt you'll see it come back to YWG in my lifetime at least. But your right that the flight of N
30 Post contains images BAKJet : Thanks for the info.
31 Jamincan : I'm not quite sure I understand. Are you suggesting that YWG would be a more stategic connection point to YFB and YZF because it would offer more con
32 Post contains links MattRB : Should've remembered this one earlier.. in addition there is also a Boeing plant in Winnipeg.
33 ScrubbsYWG : yep, there is a little bit of winnipeg on nearly every boeing airliner. I applied for a job with them, and got a call back for an interview, but they
34 Yyz717 : Bingo. Excellent answer. This sums it up in a nutshell. The YWG economy has underperformed and declined (in relative terms to the rest of Canada) for
35 SLCUT2777 : I would say YUL has a few more things going for it, but you're very correct about YWG being compared to many of the rust-belt cities in the U.S upper
36 Sebring : That's one reason. Walk through downtown Winnipeg, and you don't see a lot of construction cranes either. Winnipeg has near hourly service to Toronto
37 Threepoint : Nobody's bellittling the economy of the Nashville area. I'm sure it's great. It doesn't change the fact that the city does not adequately support pro
38 Post contains images SLCUT2777 : It think if DL and NW hook-up you'll see an SLC flight at the right time come back and perhaps succeed. Given the involvement of both in the high-tec
39 Threepoint : Fingers crossed. We'd welcome more service to the US east coast that doesn't go through YYZ. The possibilities to Canadian cities given a major merge
40 Ywg777 : What I ment by First Air adding a YWG-YZF/YFB flight was more for using Winnipeg as a staging point to the north. First Air has had a presence in YWG
41 Viscount724 : YEG has always been, and will almost certainly remain, the major gateway to YZF and the western Arctic region simply because it's so much closer (YEG
42 Virgin747 : Flying that cargo double the distance will hurt a few factors....That bottle of coke you buy will go from 2 dollars to 4 dollars. The fact its travel
43 ScrubbsYWG : not a teenager, someone my age, as i went to elementary school with the thread starter(he doesn't know that though...) But if you search his username,
44 Yyz717 : No market is underserved. There are no regulatory limits on incremental transborder flights. At the risk of stating the obvious. YEG is a larger, mor
45 Threepoint : Similarly, the per-capita income of a city often has little to do with the demand for air services to it. Let's take YLW: a relative few residents tr
46 Connies4ever : It was a DC-9-32, actually. Used to take the westbound to visit the parents in YVR. Zoom also provides seasonal service to LGW. Having said that, and
47 YULYMX : Winnipeg... air Canada...if you go east you stop in YYZ if you go west you go through YVR
48 Viscount724 : I remember flying an AC DC-8-63 YVR-YWG-LHR about 1974 or 1975. I also recall a CP Air 747-200 flight YVR-YWG-AMS a little later. I think that servic
49 Connies4ever : Indeed. We also saw LH Starliners in here from time to time, to US West Coast and also I believe South America. I used to go out to (then) Stevenson
50 Yyz717 : It has a lot to do with it. As PCI rises, so does demand for business travel and leisure travel. When a recession hits, and PCI drops 1-2% in a city,
51 SLCUT2777 : They really did a poor job in marketing this thing. It was a stretch and could have offered great U.S.west coast connections, but it was if DL just f
52 Ywg777 : The DL loads to start off wasn't the greatest but by march of 2007 1 flight a day was all we got and it was a overnighter arrivng here at 10pm and le
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