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Delta 767 Tailstrike Incident At SVO On Jan 26  
User currently offlineAddd From United States of America, joined May 2007, 397 posts, RR: 0
Posted (6 years 11 months 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 17047 times:

Russian media (I could not find the information in English - the link is to the Russian newsbit: http://www.vesti.ru/doc.html?id=159197&cid=8) report a tailstrike by Delta B767 (flight DL47 SVO-ATL) at SVO at approx. 10.29 UTC on Saturday, Jan 26, during take-off. The aircraft landed safely at SVO at 11.15 UTC and is currently inspected for damage by Russian authorities; FAA is to investigate as well. The aircraft remains at SVO.

41 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineUN_B732 From United States of America, joined Jul 2001, 4289 posts, RR: 4
Reply 1, posted (6 years 11 months 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 16927 times:

Poor Boeing 766   (gotta love media articles)

Anyone have any pics of the damage?

EDIT: Delta doesn't seem to have very good luck with flight 47 this week, on Tuesday it diverted to GLA.

[Edited 2008-01-27 08:59:55]


What now?
User currently offlineFlighty From United States of America, joined Apr 2007, 8773 posts, RR: 3
Reply 2, posted (6 years 11 months 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 16762 times:



Quoting UN_B732 (Reply 1):
Poor Boeing 766

Wow, it left some material on the runway then, did it?  Smile


User currently offlineEvan767 From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 2957 posts, RR: 2
Reply 3, posted (6 years 11 months 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 16735 times:

Looks like the flight ended up being cancelled.


The proper term is "on final" not "on finals" bud...
User currently offlineAddd From United States of America, joined May 2007, 397 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (6 years 11 months 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 16611 times:



Quoting Flighty (Reply 2):
Wow, it left some material on the runway then, did it?

... as well as three smashed runway lights (according to the Vesti.ru article) Smile

By the way - here come the pictures - http://aviaforum.ru/showpost.php?p=276495&postcount=523. The damage appears to be VERY minor. The aircraft involved is N177DN.


User currently offlineUN_B732 From United States of America, joined Jul 2001, 4289 posts, RR: 4
Reply 5, posted (6 years 11 months 4 days ago) and read 16352 times:

By the way, this is unrelated, but I do notice that the travel.ru article is very biased against Delta, because of 3 incidents in the last 6 months, they say flying Delta is risky, without nothing that Aeroflot is likely going to have similar problems.

-A



What now?
User currently offlineDeltaL1011man From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 9700 posts, RR: 15
Reply 6, posted (6 years 11 months 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 16114 times:



Quoting Addd (Reply 4):
The damage appears to be VERY minor.

i don't see much wrong with her when will she be coming back home?



yep.
User currently offlineUSAirALB From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 3177 posts, RR: 2
Reply 7, posted (6 years 11 months 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 16064 times:

good thing I took Russian class.. this incident could have been much worse...

Дельта... means delta

аэропорта- airport



E135/E140/E145/E70/E75/E90/CR2/CR7/CR9/717/732/733/734/735/73G/738/739/752/753/762/772/319/320/321/333
User currently offlineHAWK21M From India, joined Jan 2001, 31712 posts, RR: 56
Reply 8, posted (6 years 11 months 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 16000 times:



Quoting Flighty (Reply 2):
Wow, it left some material on the runway then, did it?

 biggrin 

regds
MEL



Think of the brighter side!
User currently offlineRP TPA From United States of America, joined Oct 1999, 852 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (6 years 11 months 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 15954 times:

I tried reading that article, but either it's in Russian or else it's in English and I must have polished off a bottle of Stoly last night.

User currently offlineGQfluffy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (6 years 11 months 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 14976 times:



Quoting Addd (Reply 4):
The damage appears to be VERY minor



Quoting DeltaL1011man (Reply 6):
i don't see much wrong with her when will she be coming back home?

Just because the fuselage skin doesn't show damage, doesn't mean there isn't anything going on underneath. Think people, before you post. Doesn't take much to create leaks in the rear pressure dome. That's the scare here...


User currently offlineDeltaL1011man From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 9700 posts, RR: 15
Reply 11, posted (6 years 11 months 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 14853 times:



Quoting GQfluffy (Reply 10):
Just because the fuselage skin doesn't show damage, doesn't mean there isn't anything going on underneath. Think people, before you post. Doesn't take much to create leaks in the rear pressure dome. That's the scare here

that is why i said i don't SEE (as in i look at the pic and don't see anything).I didn't say there wasn't anything wrong.



yep.
User currently offlineAviateur From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 1360 posts, RR: 11
Reply 12, posted (6 years 11 months 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 14526 times:

The damage appears pretty minor, if noticeable at all, but I believe the checklist calls for a return to the departure airport in the event of a tailstrike.

The 767-300 is particularly susceptible to tailstrikes both on takeoff and landing. I fly one myself and it is something that's always in the back of my mind.

During the preflight, it always amazes me how low the plane's rear end is to the tarmac. I'm less than six feet tall, and I have to duck slightly when walking beneath the aft fuselage.

With an engine loss at V1...that tail will be *inches* above the pavement.

[Edited 2008-01-27 17:51:34]


Patrick Smith is an airline pilot, air travel columnist and author
User currently offlineLevg79 From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 995 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (6 years 11 months 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 10772 times:

I knew you can't trust Russian media, but I didn't know it was that bad. Not only they refer to the aircraft as Boeing 766 (which I guess would make it 767-632), but they also spelled Sheremetyevo as "Sheremetyeva" If a Russia journalist doesn't know how the major airport in their capital city is called, then this is a problem.

Leo.



A mile of runway takes you to the world. A mile of highway takes you a mile.
User currently offlineTristarSteve From Sweden, joined Nov 2005, 4072 posts, RR: 33
Reply 14, posted (6 years 11 months 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 10282 times:



Quoting GQfluffy (Reply 10):
Just because the fuselage skin doesn't show damage, doesn't mean there isn't anything going on underneath.

We had a tailstrike once on a Tristar. There was no visible damage except for a slightly twisted tailskid.
It took a working party of 10, two weeks to repair.


User currently offlineFlyingClrs727 From United States of America, joined Apr 2007, 738 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (6 years 11 months 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 10110 times:



Quoting Aviateur (Reply 12):
The 767-300 is particularly susceptible to tailstrikes both on takeoff and landing. I fly one myself and it is something that's always in the back of my mind.

I wonder if Boeing will consider porting the anti tailstrike software developed for the 777-300ER to the 767-300, 300ER, and 400ER.


User currently offlineFlyingcat From United States of America, joined May 2007, 547 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (6 years 11 months 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 10090 times:



Quoting FlyingClrs727 (Reply 15):

Since the 777 is a Fly By Wire (FBW) aircraft the software will not be effective.


User currently offlineFlysherwood From United States of America, joined Jul 2006, 1115 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (6 years 11 months 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 8752 times:



Quoting Aviateur (Reply 12):
The 767-300 is particularly susceptible to tailstrikes both on takeoff and landing. I fly one myself and it is something that's always in the back of my mind.

What is the major cause of tailstrikes?


User currently offlineRFields5421 From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 7607 posts, RR: 32
Reply 18, posted (6 years 11 months 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 8735 times:



Quoting Aviateur (Reply 12):
The damage appears pretty minor, if noticeable at all, but I believe the checklist calls for a return to the departure airport in the event of a tailstrike.

It's definitely better to return - but not everyone does

http://www.faa.gov/data_statistics/a...y_data/events01/media/15_784NC.txt

Northwest DC-9 - N784NC - continued to DFW on Saturday after possible tail strike at MSP - no pax aboard.


User currently offlineCALPilot From United States of America, joined Oct 1999, 999 posts, RR: 13
Reply 19, posted (6 years 11 months 3 days ago) and read 8575 times:



Quoting FlyingClrs727 (Reply 15):
wonder if Boeing will consider porting the anti tailstrike software developed for the 777-300ER to the 767-300, 300ER, and 400ER.

Our B756 fleet produce a rotation pitch report on each T/O, and landing for crews to review. We then track the entire fleet for trends.


User currently offlineReltney From United States of America, joined Jun 2004, 209 posts, RR: 1
Reply 20, posted (6 years 11 months 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 8427 times:



Quoting Flysherwood (Reply 17):

Idiots.. I fly the 767 and you just have to be stupid to drag anything unless there were wind factors or out of CG and overloaded weight issues.. otherwise just stupid. Now, when the plane lands the spoilers will cause the nose to pitch up(worse on the-200) and if you touch down slow with the nose near the limit, you can snag it. However......

Time to vent about this issue with my airline..
It is funny, The people are taught to drive the planes instead of flying them. You can feel the plane, it will talk to you. I will fly with some pilots and when Vr comes they pull back till the plane leaves the ground. No Never No....unless there is somthing on the runway you need to get over.

Someone on this thread who flies 767 said the tail is inches of the runway if you loose an engine. That is what my company said and they are WRONG. Idiots again. Who cares. If the plane is at the speed Vr and you have the angle of attack about 5-7degrees it will fly off with one or both engines and the tail will be the same distance off the runway.(the wing dosn't know you lost the engine and will fly at that speed and weight with the angle of attack required to fly it.) It is science....

...Some mgmt instructor who never studied swept wing aerodynamics wrote our training manual and people believe it. How that happens that they dont know swept wing aero is easy. You can fly for any airline comming from the Navy. If you never flew a plane before you will be in a T-6 ot T-34 (strait wing prop) then fly a T-44 king air (strait wing prop) then find your self in a C-130 or P-3 (strait wing prop) all great planes too, then hired by an airline flying swept wing jets. Brown nosing yourself into an instructor position then you write the training books and have never read or studied swept wing aero. It happens and it is happening at our airline. You should read what some idiot wrote about x wind takeoffs. I cannot believe we havn't ground more wingtips into the runway. We do but not as often as I would have predicted..


It is sad and many will be shocked by this but many pilots who fly for the airline dont like flying. The airline has soured some due to labor issues. I can relate but when I am home I am flying my Cub or other toys I have and most of my fellow airline pilots give me the quote"I cant look at a plane when I leave work" . I am a pilot and I fly. It is a hobby and passion as it is with many others but we are a minority. They dont scrape tails either

Keep this in mind. Many factors are involved. The plane could have been overloaded. Happens too often in russia and in some south american places .Yes it happens in america but it is rare. We have more chacks and ballances in place. Someone said it took out lights.....Unless it went off the side of the runway(didn't) or the were refering to centerline lighting(hard to dammage) the only lights were at the end of the runway and the plane could have been overloaded and it was called for to get the plane airborne. Dont judge to early but if I get the facts(never reported in the news) I will share..

Cheers



I am a pilot, therefore I envy no one...
User currently offlineUN_B732 From United States of America, joined Jul 2001, 4289 posts, RR: 4
Reply 21, posted (6 years 11 months 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 8376 times:

I believe it's likely that he may have been overloaded, though I'd be disappointed that with all of DL's years operating out of Moscow, they hadn't put better audits and controls in.

A full flight 47, with cargo, flying a 13 hour run to ATL is probably going to be at or close to MTOW.

-A



What now?
User currently offlineReltney From United States of America, joined Jun 2004, 209 posts, RR: 1
Reply 22, posted (6 years 11 months 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 8354 times:



Quoting UN_B732 (Reply 21):
I believe it's likely that he may have been overloaded, though I'd be disappointed that with all of DL's years operating out of Moscow, they hadn't put better audits and controls in.

A full flight 47, with cargo, flying a 13 hour run to ATL is probably going to be at or close to MTOW.

-A

Great point!



I am a pilot, therefore I envy no one...
User currently offlineFlysherwood From United States of America, joined Jul 2006, 1115 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (6 years 11 months 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 8236 times:



Quoting UN_B732 (Reply 21):
I believe it's likely that he may have been overloaded, though I'd be disappointed that with all of DL's years operating out of Moscow, they hadn't put better audits and controls

Just curious, but how does overloading contribute to a tailstrike? Does it make the nose pitch up further on rotation or does the pilot feel the need to pull back early because of the length of runway being used to rotate? Sorry if these are silly questions. Just very curious and a very frustrated pilot wannabe!!!  Smile


User currently offlineGQfluffy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 24, posted (6 years 11 months 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 8078 times:



Quoting TristarSteve (Reply 14):
We had a tailstrike once on a Tristar. There was no visible damage except for a slightly twisted tailskid.
It took a working party of 10, two weeks to repair.

My thoughts exactly...


25 Aviateur : Over-rotation on takeoff, or excessive flare on landing. The latter is usually a byproduct of some other screw-up, i.e. rate-of-descent or speed prob
26 Reltney : There is never a stupid question. Just ask. There are some great people on here and any question can be answered. When you load a plane and say it wi
27 28L28L : What about the aspect of a "no flap" landing on a 767-300? Assuming all proper procedures are followed, does the no flap issue significantly increase
28 RobertS975 : So how do the Russians handle the passengers of such a returned flight? The pax now have to re-enter Russia without a valid visa.
29 Levg79 : Knowing the way Russian government works, they probably kept everyone within transit zone of SVO. If anyone wonders what that feels like, I suggest w
30 Aeroflot777 : Because of the way the sentence is structured, having the "a" on the end of the word is correct.
31 XFSUgimpLB41X : Great points, Reltney. I have the same sentiments. Are you on the ER or the domestic? (I'm on the domestic)
32 Post contains images Flysherwood : Thank you for the information. I appreciate it.
33 Reltney : Domestic now but flown both. Cheers
34 Reltney : Another great question.. No. If a no flap landing is necessary you would calculate a faster approach speed which keeps the touchdown angle with in li
35 Flyibaby : Huh? They never had the kind of service they do out of SVO until the past two years-ish. I cannot remember if they offered any service to SVO via FRT
36 RussianJet : Aeroflot777 is correct - it is written with an 'a' at the end because it is in the genetive case, as required by the preposition 'iz'. Maybe you shou
37 Addd : Does anyone know if the aircraft is still at SVO? Has FAA had a chance to get to it?
38 Post contains links LH648 : Maybe some Russians need to learn some Russian? Name of the airport "Sheremetyevo" do not change it form. http://www.rusgram.narod.ru/1814-1829.html#
39 RussianJet : No, it depends on how the sentence is constructed. Compare "iz aeroporta Sheremetevo" with "iz Sheremeteva". Here one can decline the name "Sheremete
40 UN_B732 : Hasn't DL been flying SVO-JFK since the 90s? (having assumed it from Pan Am?) I know ATL only came up a couple of years ago.. -A
41 Aeroflot777 : Yes, DL has been flying for years. ATL was added a few summers back. JFK service existed and was very popular.I've spoken to quite a few DL reps and
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