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US Domestic Operator Allowed To Be BA Franchise?  
User currently offlineBabyblueBHX From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2008, 38 posts, RR: 0
Posted (6 years 7 months 3 weeks 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 3022 times:

Hi guys I have been thinking over the past couple of days,

What if a BA agreed with a US domestic operator that they could become a BA franchise operator such as GB airways and BMED were. Obviously the ownership of the carrier would fall in current ownership laws

Would this be allowed under current laws?
Would it be permitted for the US carrier to carry a BA code on it's flights?
Would the franchise be allowed to feed BA longhaul flights?

Its just something I've been thinking about with BA having franchise agreements with airlines with airlines in South Africa etc.

Your opinions would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks babyblueBHX


A new job a new era
9 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineA330323X From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 3039 posts, RR: 43
Reply 1, posted (6 years 7 months 3 weeks 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 2990 times:

I don't see why not.

Heck, USAir wet-leased planes to BA and operated them in full BA colors back in the early 90's.



I'm the expert on here on two things, neither of which I care about much anymore.
User currently offlineElmoTheHobo From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 1540 posts, RR: 1
Reply 2, posted (6 years 7 months 3 weeks 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 2976 times:

It could be done, but they would have to stay away from the issues that Virgin America faced during its startup, namely keeping foreign influence and ownership at a minimum. Not only do American companies need to be American owned, but their leadership needs to be overwhelmingly American, something like 2/3rds of senior executives, 75% of voting shares and 51% of equity.

Please correct me if I got the numbers wrong.


User currently offlineVV701 From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2005, 7531 posts, RR: 17
Reply 3, posted (6 years 7 months 3 weeks 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 2895 times:

In recent years BA has had three domestic franchise partners - GB Airways, British Mediterranean and Loganair.

Although BA did have a financial stake in GB Airways (49 per cent I believe) before it appointed them a franchisee, it sold that stake to the owners of the other 51 per cent, the Bland Group, when they appointed them a franchisee in February 1995.

BA have never had a direct financial interest in either Loganair or BMed. Indeed I believe that at the time they became a BA franchise operator in July 1994 Loganair was a member of the Airlines of Great Britain Group (along with British Midland) owned by Sir Michael Bishop although it was later subject to a management buy out. BMed was owned by Lord Hesketh when it was a BA franchise operator.

Come the end of the Summer 2008 schedules all three of these domestic franchise partnerships will have been terminated. This leaves BA's two international franchise operators.

Sun-Air of Denmark was founded by Niels Sundberg. Today it is 100 per cent owned by the Sundberg family.

That leaves Comair in South Africa. BA owned 18 per cent of the equity of this airline although I think they may have recently sold some of their shares.

As has been already mentioned in this thread BA had an alliance with US Airways. In January 1993 BA invested £198 M in that American airline that was later increased to a 24.6 per cent equity holding. One of the results of this alliance was the appearance of US 762s in the old British Airways Landor colour scheme with full 'British Airways' titles. Although these aircraft were primarily used for flights from the East Coast of the USA to LGW they also appear to have been used on domestic flights in the USA. For example there is a photo of one of these aircraft (N655US) taken in May 1995 at LAX.

Of course there are many BA code share flights in the American Airlines domestic network. BA5415 ORD-ALB and BA5019 LAX-HNL are but two examples.

So in summary BA has never had a stake as high as a 25 per cent stake in the equity of any franchise operator or alliance partner. Further it seems that US owned and operated aircraft registered in the USA and flown and manned by American crews but in BA colours with BA titles have already flown in the American domestic market. And certainly there are a large number of existing AA/BA code share flights in the US domestic market today. So there seems to me to be no reason why BA should not appoint an American domestic operator as a franchise partner EXCEPT . . .

Except what? I am quite sure that BA would not appoint an American franchise partner without the full and unqualified agreement of AA.


User currently offlineAisak From Spain, joined Aug 2005, 763 posts, RR: 10
Reply 4, posted (6 years 7 months 3 weeks 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 2759 times:



Quoting VV701 (Reply 3):
Except what? I am quite sure that BA would not appoint an American franchise partner without the full and unqualified agreement of AA.

Mmmm not so much. Maybe Openskies is not considered as a BA franchise per se but BA will hold 100% of Openskies and will be carrying the BA code from Europe to US.


User currently offlineTristarSteve From Sweden, joined Nov 2005, 4007 posts, RR: 33
Reply 5, posted (6 years 7 months 3 weeks 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 2730 times:

Doesn't DHL have a franchise operation. Their flights are operated by ABX, an American Company, but all the *pax* are DHL customers and the planes are painted in DHL colours, and the fly on DHL airwaybills..

User currently offlineNzrich From New Zealand, joined Dec 2005, 1522 posts, RR: 1
Reply 6, posted (6 years 7 months 3 weeks 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 2725 times:



Quoting TristarSteve (Reply 5):
Doesn't DHL have a franchise operation. Their flights are operated by ABX, an American Company, but all the *pax* are DHL customers and the planes are painted in DHL colours, and the fly on DHL airwaybills..

DHL ??? I thought that was a strictly freight company



"Pride of the pacific"
User currently offlineAirbusA6 From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2005, 2013 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (6 years 7 months 3 weeks 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 2675 times:



Quoting VV701 (Reply 3):
Except what? I am quite sure that BA would not appoint an American franchise partner without the full and unqualified agreement of AA.

Perhaps AA could rename and repaint its domestic fleet as "British Airways Express". UA could be "Lufthansa Express" and DL could be "Air France Connection"  biggrin 



it's the bus to stansted (now renamed national express a4 to ruin my username)
User currently offlineBaexecutive From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2005, 744 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (6 years 7 months 3 weeks 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 2460 times:



Quoting AirbusA6 (Reply 7):
Perhaps AA could rename and repaint its domestic fleet as "British Airways Express". UA could be "Lufthansa Express" and DL could be "Air France Connection

Yeah sounds like a good idea to me LOL


User currently offlineHPAEAA From United States of America, joined May 2006, 1024 posts, RR: 1
Reply 9, posted (6 years 7 months 3 weeks 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 2382 times:



Quoting AirbusA6 (Reply 7):
UA could be "Lufthansa Express"

sounds like B6 might be on that track...



Why do I fly???
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