B737-112 From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 880 posts, RR: 8 Posted (5 years 3 months 3 weeks 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 1721 times:
I was flight tracking the AA MD-80 that flies DFW to BUR and noticed it diverted to Van Nuys which does not handle airliners, seems odd. I would think if BUR was not an option for whatever reason it would fly to LAX or ONT. If anybody has any info it would be greatly appreciated as to if this was mechanical or a weather diversion of some sort.
The LYNXX8 arrival takes you over PMD to LYNXX (about 15NW of VNY) and then from LYNXX straight towards VNY, at which point you make a left turn eastbound and lined up on final for runway 8 at BUR. If I had to venture a guess, it'd be that they had a sudden and critical passenger medical issue, or a mechanical issue involving flaps, an anti-skid system, or an outright engine shutdown.
Heading from LYNXX to VNY pretty much lines them up on runway 16R at VNY, which at 8,000 feet long is longer than either of BUR's two runways. From overhead VNY landing BUR is only another couple of minutes flying time, but in a sudden and critical medical situation (passenger heart attack?) minutes count.
An anti-skid inop increases required landing distance, which BUR's shorter runways may not have provided at the flight's actual landing weight. If that was the case, it's not critical time-wise, and ONT or LAX would have indeed seemed better choices as far as runway distances and the availability of MX and parts.
If it was an engine shutdown, FARs require a twin to land at the nearest suitable airport in point-of-time, so assuming an engine was shutdown just either side of LYNXX, VNY would have been the closest suitable airport, closer time-wise than BUR, and much closer time-wise than LAX or ONT. I'm not current on MD-80 systems/procedures, but if it's anything like the 737 (in which a single-engine landing is done at flaps-15 versus the normal flaps-30 or flaps-40 landing), any lesser lesser flap setting than normal would have involved higher landing speeds. At a short runway airport like BUR, that higher speed uses up the short runway all the faster, such that one doesn't attempt a landing.
Just a couple of educated guesses. Maybe AAR90 can chime in...
Cubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 21230 posts, RR: 19 Reply 2, posted (5 years 3 months 3 weeks 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 1660 times:
I'm not so sure it actually went to VNY... AA.com shows it arriving an hour late at BUR after leaving DFW roughly an hour late, and I can't seem to find a departure from VNY on flightaware.
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B737-112 From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 880 posts, RR: 8 Reply 3, posted (5 years 3 months 3 weeks 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 1635 times:
The departure out of VNY would be VFR, meaning no FlightAware indication.
Cubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 21230 posts, RR: 19 Reply 4, posted (5 years 3 months 3 weeks 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 1629 times:
Quoting B737-112 (Reply 3): The departure out of VNY would be VFR, meaning no FlightAware indication.
You're assuming it went to BUR. But if it had a m/x issue and went back to DFW (or if they took it to TUL), that would be IFR.
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
OPNLguy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 5, posted (5 years 3 months 3 weeks 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 1623 times:
Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 2): I'm not so sure it actually went to VNY... AA.com shows it arriving an hour late at BUR after leaving DFW roughly an hour late, and I can't seem to find a departure from VNY on flightaware.
I didn't check VNY departures, and that brings up another possibility.
About a year or two ago, there was a thread about flightaware showing a 747 flight from OLM-Europe, and someone wondered if it was diversion of some kind. Turns out that Seattle ARTCC had about a 10-minute computer burp and that when it came back-up it showed the flight as being overhead that VOR, and not having taken off from the associate airport.
Since VNY is a routing point DFW-BUR, maybe a similar computer issue at LA ARTCC resulted in the flight's datatag being dropped and flight aware interpreted that as a landing at VNY versus a point being overflown on the way into BUR.
Cubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 21230 posts, RR: 19 Reply 6, posted (5 years 3 months 3 weeks 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 1611 times:
Quoting OPNLguy (Reply 5):
Since VNY is a routing point DFW-BUR, maybe a similar computer issue at LA ARTCC resulted in the flight's datatag being dropped and flight aware interpreted that as a landing at VNY versus a point being overflown on the way into BUR.
Of course, flightaware also burps sometimes for no apparent reason.
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
Bond007 From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 5098 posts, RR: 8 Reply 7, posted (5 years 3 months 3 weeks 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 1611 times:
Bond007 From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 5098 posts, RR: 8 Reply 9, posted (5 years 3 months 3 weeks 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 1577 times:
Actually it would appear it did land at VNY.
Jimbo
I'd rather be on the ground wishing I was in the air, than in the air wishing I was on the ground!
Cubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 21230 posts, RR: 19 Reply 10, posted (5 years 3 months 3 weeks 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 1577 times:
Quoting Bond007 (Reply 9): Actually it would appear it did land at VNY.
Is it still there?
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
B737-112 From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 880 posts, RR: 8 Reply 11, posted (5 years 3 months 3 weeks 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 1561 times:
For those interested BUR has a CXP B734, RYN B722 and a JUS DC93 all en route right now. I guess it's the GOP candidates and they're landing/departing on Runway 33 (the uphill runway), this should be a fun day!
LAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 22028 posts, RR: 51 Reply 12, posted (5 years 3 months 3 weeks 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 1462 times:
I'm not to sure about AA1865 landing at VNY as the tower activity log does not indicate that while the BUR tower shows 1865 having arrived at 2246L last night. Also there were no flight plans filed between VNY and BUR last 24hrs.
Bond007 From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 5098 posts, RR: 8 Reply 13, posted (5 years 3 months 3 weeks 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 1424 times:
Ah, wasn't a noise curfew issue at BUR was it?
Is the AA MD80 stage 2 or 3 compliant?
Quoting OPNLguy (Reply 8): Part 121 airline flights are filed IFR, irrespective of VMC or IMC weather conditions.
Quoting LAXintl (Reply 12): Also there were no flight plans filed between VNY and BUR last 24hrs.
Does that include VFR? It certainly wouldn't file IFR from VNY to BUR, or probably fly under Part 121 if it was empty. It might not even file at all.
.. of course, this is probably all a Red Herring ... didn't land at VNY anyway!!
Jimbo
[Edited 2008-01-30 12:23:43]
I'd rather be on the ground wishing I was in the air, than in the air wishing I was on the ground!
LAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 22028 posts, RR: 51 Reply 14, posted (5 years 3 months 3 weeks 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 1396 times:
Quoting Bond007 (Reply 13): Ah, wasn't a noise curfew issue at BUR was it? Is the AA MD80 stage 2 or 3 compliant?
Currently BUR has the stupidest "voluntary" curfew which every airline breaks. Until the rules change (City and FAA are working on an amendment in 08 or '09) I would not consider that a factor.
Quoting Bond007 (Reply 13): It certainly wouldn't file IFR from VNY to BUR, or probably fly under Part 121 if it was empty. It might not even file at all.
While yes it would operate under tower to tower handling, I'm not sure AA is allowed VFR ops. Most majors in their ops specs/FOM's require IFR only ops.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
I'm guessing the 47 minute OUT delay was due to an indicator light that needed replacement (been a long time since I flew MD80/90). Otherwise, it appears the flight operated normally.
Quoting Bond007 (Reply 9): Actually it would appear it did land at VNY.
Just another example of why I don't use publicly available sources for AA flight info.
Quoting Bond007 (Reply 13): Is the AA MD80 stage 2 or 3 compliant?
Stage-3, but just barely.
*NO CARRIER* -- A Naval Aviator's worst nightmare!
OPNLguy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 18, posted (5 years 3 months 3 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 1262 times:
Quoting AAR90 (Reply 16):
Thanks, just throw up your hands and ask for help.
Thanks for chiming in and solving the mystery, or at least confirming the bird didn't actually land at VNY.
In addition to occasional flighaware errors, we sometimes see data tags for our DAL arrivals showing DFW. Perhaps someone at ZFW/D10 mis-clicks or mis-slews the trackball, but most of the time the "DFW" eventually reverts to correctly show "DAL." As that stuff feeds ASD, which in turn feeds flightaware, flightexplorer and all the other ASD products/services, so it's not always the fault of the product/service themselves.
LAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 22028 posts, RR: 51 Reply 19, posted (5 years 3 months 3 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 1194 times:
Quoting Bond007 (Reply 15): But it also has a mandatory curfew after 10pm for Stage 2 right?
Yes but MD-80 is not stage 2. Stage 2 commercial planes were long banned in US skies with the exception of Alaska and Hawaii.
But anyhow even that restriction is nearly toothless with a maximum of a ~$3500 fine for a violation with lots of late night stage-2 biz jet traffic still coming and going.
Based on initial positive FAA comments seems like BUR will have its Part 161 study and application accepted making it the first airport since new federal laws went into effect to apply a fixed curfew. (a 10 year project for the airport and community).
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
Srbmod From United States of America, joined Mar 2001, 16888 posts, RR: 51 Reply 20, posted (5 years 3 months 3 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 1166 times:
Since the OP's question has been answered and the thread is now turning into an off-topic discussion on airport noise curfews, the thread is now locked.
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From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 880 posts, 
Here's the flight log (time columns are Scheduled, Planned, and Actual... all in LOCAL times):
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