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LH Wide Body Order Coming  
User currently offlineCarls From United States of America, joined Aug 2007, 522 posts, RR: 0
Posted (6 years 7 months 3 weeks 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 14570 times:

I heard that Lufthansa will place an order this year for the following Aircrafts:

5 A380
20 A350-800 plus 15 Options
20 A350-900 plus 10 Options

There is also interest in the A351 but they are not in a hurry since they are happy with their A346 and no replacement is need it for now. The announcement will be made at Farnborough this year.

Brithis Airways is also close to make a decision about the A350-900 or A350-1000, it will be 25 Aircraft of one of them.

Can someone confirm us about LH rumor.

The Brithis Airways it is actually an old news.
(Sorry Chris777) Big grin

50 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineVinniewinnie From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 792 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (6 years 7 months 3 weeks 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 14545 times:

That sounds good! Can you tell us a bit more about your sources? I assume they must be pretty reliable since you are actually very precise in your numbers!

BA ordering another type of Long-haul Airbus wow!


User currently offlineCarls From United States of America, joined Aug 2007, 522 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (6 years 7 months 3 weeks 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 14505 times:

Yes my source it is the same person how gave me the numbers on Emirates order and BA order. He is well connected and with some small differences he always gave me the right information. Now where he got this information I am not aware.

User currently offlineCarls From United States of America, joined Aug 2007, 522 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (6 years 7 months 3 weeks 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 14492 times:



Quoting Vinniewinnie (Reply 1):
BA ordering another type of Long-haul Airbus wow!

They left this size opened for this year, but apparently they already made a decision.


User currently offlineKaitak From Ireland, joined Aug 1999, 12476 posts, RR: 37
Reply 4, posted (6 years 7 months 3 weeks 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 14348 times:

That will be a great boost for the A350 - two of the biggest hitters in European aviation. Two very big coups.

I did a comparison a few days ago of the A330 and equivalent A350 models;l there's quite a lot of difference in size between the 333 and 359, so it confuses me that Airbus still gives the same number of pax (314) in total for both.

With AF/KL and possibly even QF to make long haul choices this year, it looks like being a very good year for the 350.


User currently offlineQazar From Canada, joined May 2006, 333 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (6 years 7 months 3 weeks 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 14007 times:

The LH A350-800/900 order is destined to replace the A343s only or the A333s in the fleet as well?

I'm a little confused by LH's orders and fleet planning strategies?

The way I understand it is:

20 A380-800 (15 A380-800 already ordered + 5 A380-800 according to this thread)
20 B747-8

Will these 40 aircraft replace the existing 30 B744s presently in the fleet and add capacity or will some B744s remain?

Now:

20 A350-800
20 A350-900

replacing the 28 A343s, but will some A333s be replaced as well or will they operate the A333s along with the A358/9? (especially considering that some A333s are still being delivered...)

The A346 will remain in the fleet.... right?


So, it looks like the future fleet will be:
20 A380-800
20 B748-8
24 A340-600
20 A350-900
20 A350-800
15 A330-300

Considering the retirement of 30 B744s and 28 A343s (58 jets), and the addition instead of the A388 (20), B748 (20), A359 (20) and A358 (20), this will result in a net increase of 22 additional wide bodies being added to the fleet which in itself is probably an indication to the tremendous amount of expansion that LH may be planning.

As for the A333s, their future fate can be sealed to SWISS or even better remain in the fleet to take up the duties of the ageing A300-600s, presently numbering 14 inthe fleet


User currently offlineCX288 From Germany, joined Jan 2008, 142 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (6 years 7 months 3 weeks 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 13998 times:



Quoting Kaitak (Reply 4):
That will be a great boost for the A350 - two of the biggest hitters in European aviation.

And there you see fleet commonality emerging in light of the envisioned LH-BA merger (see other thread)  hyper 


User currently offlineZRH From Switzerland, joined Nov 1999, 5568 posts, RR: 35
Reply 7, posted (6 years 7 months 3 weeks 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 13924 times:

Thanks for the information. This is also interesting for SWISS. I guess they will get the same aircrafts (as 100 % subsidiary). Although they will have brand new 333 from 2009 on they will have to replace in 5 to 10 years their 343.

User currently offlineKeesje From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (6 years 7 months 3 weeks 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 13913 times:



Quoting Qazar (Reply 5):
Considering the retirement of 30 B744s and 28 A343s (58 jets), and the addition instead of the A388 (20), B748 (20), A359 (20) and A358 (20), this will result in a net increase of 22 additional wide bodies being added to the fleet which in itself is probably an indication to the tremendous amount of expansion that LH may be planning.

Airtraffic is growing 5% per year. So having an additional 25% percent capasity in 10 years doesn´t seem overlambitious to me..


User currently offlineDanny From Poland, joined Apr 2002, 3509 posts, RR: 2
Reply 9, posted (6 years 7 months 3 weeks 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 13888 times:



Quoting Keesje (Reply 8):
Quoting Qazar (Reply 5):
Considering the retirement of 30 B744s and 28 A343s (58 jets), and the addition instead of the A388 (20), B748 (20), A359 (20) and A358 (20), this will result in a net increase of 22 additional wide bodies being added to the fleet which in itself is probably an indication to the tremendous amount of expansion that LH may be planning.

Airtraffic is growing 5% per year. So having an additional 25% percent capasity in 10 years doesn´t seem overlambitious to me..

Conversion of their 748 order to freighters is still a real possibility hence large number of options for XWB.


User currently offlineZRH From Switzerland, joined Nov 1999, 5568 posts, RR: 35
Reply 10, posted (6 years 7 months 3 weeks 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 13890 times:



Quoting Keesje (Reply 8):
Airtraffic is growing 5% per year. So having an additional 25% percent capasity in 10 years doesn´t seem overlambitious to me..

Yes, and as I mentioned above probably some frames are planed for SWISS. As they did with the 333 (definite) and probably with the EMB 170/190 (rumor).


User currently offlineSAS A340 From Sweden, joined Jul 2000, 781 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (6 years 7 months 3 weeks 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 13729 times:



Quoting Danny (Reply 9):
Conversion of their 748 order to freighters

Very possible!! this is good news if true!! Big grin , for Airbus i mean  Wink



It's not what u do,it's how u do it!
User currently onlineDALCE From Netherlands, joined Feb 2007, 1689 posts, RR: 7
Reply 12, posted (6 years 7 months 3 weeks 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 13593 times:



Quoting Danny (Reply 9):
Conversion of their 748 order to freighters

Not for LH, they are happy with the MD11's and whenever a replacement will be ordered, they will go for the 777F.
The MD11's still have years of life in them, and won''t be replaced within 8 years.



flown on : F50,F70,CR1,CR2,CR9,E75,143,AR8,AR1,733,735,736,73G,738,753,744,319,320,321,333,AB6.
User currently offlineScbriml From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2003, 12569 posts, RR: 46
Reply 13, posted (6 years 7 months 3 weeks 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 13481 times:
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Quoting Carls (Thread starter):
The announcement will be made at Farnborough this year.

If the decision is made, why wait till Farnborough to announce it?  confused 



Time flies like an arrow, but fruit flies like a banana!
User currently offlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 31007 posts, RR: 86
Reply 14, posted (6 years 7 months 3 weeks 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 13411 times:
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The A350-800 could replace the A330-300 and the A350-900 can replace the A340-300. Not a surprise if it happens in that I expected LH to buy them over the 787, but...I still have no clue why LH bought the 747-8I.

I thought it might be an A340-600 replacement (with the A340-600s replacing the A340-300s), but if they plan to use A350s to replace the A333 and A343 and not only keep but add onto the A346s, where the heck are the 747-8I's going to fit in? Especially if Zeke is correct in postulating they're going to be heavy in F and Y and light in C?

Why not just buy more A388s and not only get more Y but also get more C? And if you can't fly an A388 to an airport, send in the A346 unless some routes are seeing strong First Class and Economy Class demand and low Business Class?  confused   boggled 


User currently offlineSteeler83 From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 9211 posts, RR: 20
Reply 15, posted (6 years 7 months 3 weeks 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 13311 times:



Quoting Qazar (Reply 5):
Will these 40 aircraft replace the existing 30 B744s presently in the fleet and add capacity or will some B744s remain?



Quoting Danny (Reply 9):
Conversion of their 748 order to freighters is still a real possibility hence large number of options for XWB.

I don't think LH will do that. They're going with the 748, as well as the A380 and A350s to fill in the gap between the A346 and A380. That's roughly a 200 pax gap, considering that their A346s seat 300-350, while the A380 will seat some 550, of course depending on LH's configuration.

I think they will convert some of their older 744s to Freighters, and the 748 will also be adding some capacity per plane.

My 0.02  Smile



Do not bring stranger girt into your room. The stranger girt is dangerous, it will hurt your life.
User currently offlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 31007 posts, RR: 86
Reply 16, posted (6 years 7 months 3 weeks 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 13274 times:
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Quoting Carls (Thread starter):
Brithis Airways is also close to make a decision about the A350-900 or A350-1000, it will be 25 Aircraft of one of them.

Here is hoping the A350-1000 because they can then exercise their 20 787 options for 787-9s.  thumbsup 


User currently offlinePM From Germany, joined Feb 2005, 6923 posts, RR: 63
Reply 17, posted (6 years 7 months 3 weeks 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 13182 times:



Quoting Carls (Thread starter):
5 A380
20 A350-800 plus 15 Options
20 A350-900 plus 10 Options

We see rumours every week on A.Net and it would be prudent to count no chickens until they are pecking around the farmyard! Nevertheless, these numbers and models seem quite credible. When LH do place an order it will necessarily look a lot like this. (I've always assumed they'll go A350 rather than 787.)

Quoting Carls (Thread starter):
5 A380
20 A350-800 plus 15 Options
20 A350-900 plus 10 Options

If it does happen they'll be smiling in Derby!  bigthumbsup 


User currently offlineSXDFC From United States of America, joined Dec 2007, 2355 posts, RR: 21
Reply 18, posted (6 years 7 months 3 weeks 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 12777 times:

Why replace the A330-300's now? Heck some of them aren't even 5 years old yet, to replace them is just a waste of $$ IMHO I also heard that some of their 74


ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
User currently offlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 31007 posts, RR: 86
Reply 19, posted (6 years 7 months 3 weeks 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 12014 times:
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Quoting SXDFC (Reply 18):
Why replace the A330-300's now? Heck some of them aren't even 5 years old yet, to replace them is just a waste of $$ IMHO...

If LH is looking at deliveries around a decade from now...


User currently offlineAA1818 From Trinidad and Tobago, joined Feb 2006, 3435 posts, RR: 4
Reply 20, posted (6 years 7 months 3 weeks 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 11975 times:



Quoting Kaitak (Reply 4):
Two very big coups.

BA ordering A350 = definite coup on the part of Airbus.

but LH ordering A350s how exactly is that a coup? I suppose it's a coup given the fact that the A350 for LH will replace their vast numbers of 767 and 777 a/cs in their long haul fleet?? (sarcasm!) A350 replacing A330/ A340 is hardly a coup- give me a break!!!!!!! If that's a coup then you Airbus cheerleaders are really clutching at straws!!!

AA1818



“The moment you doubt whether you can fly, you cease for ever to be able to do it.” J.M. Barrie (Peter Pan)
User currently offlineLufthansa411 From Germany, joined Jan 2008, 692 posts, RR: 1
Reply 21, posted (6 years 7 months 3 weeks 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 11796 times:



Quoting Scbriml (Reply 13):
If the decision is made, why wait till Farnborough to announce it?   

Lufthansa management has made it clear that they will take their time with fleet planning/replacement. I see this to be an extension of that. From a short-term standpoint, all that matters is that they secure the slots from Airbus. Besides, Airbus seems to announce their orders in droves, and I am sure Lufthansa would not mind the PR boost from an event like Farnborough



Nothing in life is to be feared; it is only to be understood.
User currently offlinePM From Germany, joined Feb 2005, 6923 posts, RR: 63
Reply 22, posted (6 years 7 months 3 weeks 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 11078 times:



Quoting SXDFC (Reply 18):
Why replace the A330-300's now? Heck some of them aren't even 5 years old yet

Some of them haven't even been built yet!  Wink


User currently offlineScbriml From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2003, 12569 posts, RR: 46
Reply 23, posted (6 years 7 months 3 weeks 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 10675 times:
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Quoting SXDFC (Reply 18):
Why replace the A330-300's now?

They wouldn't be replacing them now. Even if they order this year, it will be around 7 years before they start receiving these planes, and a few more before they're all delivered. So the A330s will be that much older when they are replaced - but the crucial thing here from the airline's perspective is, they will be replacing the A330s with a significantly more efficient plane. An added bonus for LH would be they would likely find eager takers for those young A330s.

No disrespect to Carls, but I've filed this in the "nice if it pans out" pile.



Time flies like an arrow, but fruit flies like a banana!
User currently offlineChiad From Norway, joined May 2006, 1153 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (6 years 7 months 3 weeks 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 10589 times:



Quoting Qazar (Reply 5):
So, it looks like the future fleet will be:
20 A380-800
20 B748-8
24 A340-600
20 A350-900
20 A350-800
15 A330-300

119 widebodies.
But to be honest .. when the last of the A350's are being delivered the A340 will be quite "old".
I think LH will go for the A350-1000 as well. This is what I expect to see in before 2020.

20 A380-800
20 B748-8
30 A350-1000
20 A350-900
20 A350-800
15 A330-300

And when replacing the A330, the B787 will have a shot as well.

Quoting Danny (Reply 9):
Conversion of their 748 order to freighters is still a real possibility hence large number of options for XWB.

I hope this wont happen because if it does then I doubt that the B748i will ever be built. And I wanne fly it!

Quoting AA1818 (Reply 20):
LH ordering A350s how exactly is that a coup?

Maybe not a coup, but a very very positive thing.
For Airbus to have an Airline like LH replacing their products with more of their products must be very much worth.
I can only think of 2 or 3 other airlines which can be compared with LH's shape, both in market and finacial position.


25 Kappel : Well, of course the a359 is bigger than the 789, so they may even get both, just like SQ.
26 Columba : I seriously doubt that as LH did not have any A330-200 and the 787-8 is too small for them.
27 PM : Why make the assumption that an airline's fleet in any given year is ideal now, far less will be ideal a decade from now? Airlines are not forced to
28 Columba : LH said several times that they are not interested in the 787-8 because it is too small and the 787-9 is also a bit too small for them. Since the A35
29 Carls : I agree with you PM, but I could not resist to post it since everything that this guy have told me have been true, so I just wanted to shared with pe
30 Post contains images PM : Fair point(s). But perhaps as a sub-fleet of a larger (and potentially very large) A350 fleet they might be interested? The A358 could open up routes
31 AirNZ : Hmm! don't you think you went a little bit over the top there....especially for someone who's still basically wet behind the ears? And you talk about
32 Columba : Or they will be based in BER and DUS to compete with AB´s 787s.
33 Post contains images PM : Hey, no complaints from me! I hope you're right! LH with... A330 RR A346 RR A358 RR A359 RR 748i GE A380 RR
34 AA1818 : I totally agree with you there, it's just a coup is something vastly different and very specific term. AA ordering A350s- not that's a major coup!!!
35 Post contains images PM : = 'now'?
36 ZRH : This not logical. The 333 and 343 have exactly the same size (same frame, only different range). I don't know which is similar in size to the 333/343
37 Lufthansa411 : Thats an interesting idea. Perhaps we see Lufthansa purchase a sub fleet of A358's to open up more secondary and tertiary routes in Asia. They could
38 Zeke : Jade cargo ?
39 AA1818 : Cheers! - that's what I intended to say... hehe AA1818
40 Behramjee : The A 358s & A 359s will totally replace LH's fleet of 28 A 343s + 15 A 333s which is a smart move as these two versions of the A 350 family have idea
41 Ktachiya : And I wonder if they still won't have PTV's at that time. LH seems to be very aggressive. At least airlines like CX buy second hand a lot from BA whi
42 Burkhard : I assume the exact number of A358 vs A359 will be left to a later decision. A351 to replace the A346 by 2020 sounds also reasonable. By than, more A38
43 RayChuang : I believe LH is bumping up their A388 fleet for one reason: they need more capacity to fly to the US East Coast and US West Coast. LH can certainly us
44 Stitch : This not logical. The 333 and 343 have exactly the same size (same frame, only different range). I don't know which is similar in size to the 333/343
45 Columba : If they do order the A350 over the 787 I believe that LH will be the launch customer for the 737RS as LH does not want to be dependant on one of the
46 EDDB : Being a little sceptical that LH is willing to be the only 748I operator around, I can't help but wondering if 5 additional A388 is a first precaution
47 Stitch : I'm still trying to wrap my head around where the 747-8I fits in LH's fleet, unless it is to serve cities that have a great deal of Economy traffic a
48 Stitch : Follow-up to my post. Is LH going to want to stick with paired seats for First Class? Especially when most everyone else has moved or is moving to sui
49 Airnerd : So what AC will take the long thin routes currently operated by the 343s? The 333s don't quite have the range for many of these routes. How much more
50 Stitch : The 350-800 will carry a few less people and the 350-900 will carry a few more people the same distance an A340-300 can, so they could go either way
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