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Heathrow BA 757s At T3 / NCE Route  
User currently offlineNcelhr From Vatican City, joined Jul 2006, 357 posts, RR: 0
Posted (6 years 5 months 2 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 2908 times:

With the new Heathrow changes in March, flights to MAD, BCN, LIS, HEL, NCE and ALG seem to become all 757 operations.

The Airbus fleet is containerised and thus will be based at T5 - T5 is intended as a fully containerised baggage facility. 757's are not palletised and so will be based at T3.

Looking specifically at the NCE route, this seems to be a difficult mode of operation for BA due to lack of flexibility in aircraft assignment. In March, loads will not be high enough to warrant all 757 operations for LHR to NCE - there are 6 such flights daily, plus 1 x 737 flight from LGW. BA is bound to lose money on this!

Then comes the Cannes film festival, where BA has traditionally used 767s - especially at the end of the festival which coincides with the Monaco Grand Prix week-end. This year, prices for this week-end are already astronomical, and we're 4 months away! Even with 6 daily 757 flights, this is not going to be enough, especially on the monday after the Grand Prix, Nice airport's busiest day.

Then comes the summer, late June to early September, and then guess what: BA withdraws the 737 service from LGW (as those aircraft are phased out) a twice daily operation in previous years and replaces it with a once daily Avro Intl RJ100 service from London City Airport. The sums definitely do not match and this looks entirely unsuitable.

Are we going to see extortionate prices on the route this summer? Is BA able to replace a 757 flight with a 767 operation from T3? I am thinking specifically about the late afternoon flight which has often been swapped in the past to a 767...
Might BA introduce additional flights for those days where all flights are full?

It looks as though this equipment segregation might prove quite a challenge to the operational flexibility of the route. Come winter, are they likely to start making a loss?

How long is this unsuitable arrangement likely to last?
Indeed, NCE might not be the only destination with such problems (I am thinking of BCN & MAD in the same boat), so would BA have any contingency plans?

Okay, I think that's enough questions. I hope someone has some suggestions.

8 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineBALHRWWCC From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (6 years 5 months 1 week 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 2783 times:

Quoting Ncelhr (Thread starter):
Are we going to see extortionate prices on the route this summer? Is BA able to replace a 757 flight with a 767 operation from T3? I am thinking specifically about the late afternoon flight which has often been swapped in the past to a 767...

NCE will ba a 757 only route. NO 767 a/c will operate from T3 in the summer 08 timetable.

BA will not add extra flights on premium days as it is wanting the LCY service to be a sucess. BA is looking to operate double daily RJ100 services in summer 09


When BA chose the routes it would move to T3 it firstly moved those operated on codeshare routes such as IB and AY services. It then looked at the average load factor on the NCE which warrented a 757. That is why NCE was moved to T3. LIS routinely operates in the summer with a 757 .

ALG will now operate ex T5 on a A319

[Edited 2008-02-01 06:36:41]

User currently offlinePlanesarecool From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2001, 4119 posts, RR: 11
Reply 2, posted (6 years 5 months 1 week 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 2762 times:



Quoting BALHRWWCC (Reply 1):
BA has recently been won a number of corperate contracts on the ALG route which is why the 757 was pickd for this route.

Where does it say the Algiers flight will operated by the 757? The timetable I'm looking at, as well as the one of the BA.com website indicate that it'll be an A319 route from Terminal 5.


User currently offlineNcelhr From Vatican City, joined Jul 2006, 357 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (6 years 5 months 1 week 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 2625 times:



Quoting BALHRWWCC (Reply 1):
NCE will ba a 757 only route. NO 767 a/c will operate from T3 in the summer 08 timetable.

BA will not add extra flights on premium days as it is wanting the LCY service to be a sucess. BA is looking to operate double daily RJ100 services in summer 09

Well thanks for your explanations. This is indeed very disappointing. Replacing a double daily 737 with a single daily RJ100 is a joke in itself. But I also did a few calculations based on last year's traffic. I know these may be over-simplifying the problem, but don't shoot me for this.

Assumptions:
- B757: 138Y and 35C = 173 pax per aircraft. Total daily max capacity: 6 flights each way = 6 x 173 x 2 = 2 076
- RJ100: 110 pax per aircraft max
(source: BA Web site)

- April 07

No. Pax NCE-LHR, LHR-NCE: 46 710
For April 2008: max capacity is 2076 * 30 = 62 280
So average use is: 75% , that is an average of 43 empty seats per aircraft.
Surely that's not good for BA.

- July 07
No. Pax NCE-LHR, LHR-NCE: 60 991 (which will be all BA this year due to no BMI flight)
For July 2008: max capacity is 2076 * 30 = 62 280
So average use is: 97% , that is an average of 5 empty seats per aircraft.
We all know that this is impossible in practice since some flights will be more popular than others.

As for the NCE-LGW / LGW-NCE service, there was an average of 8000 pax per month.
With the end of this, and the launch of the RJ100 to LCY, BA is proposing a capacity of 6600 pax per month.
And we all know that this service has been launched to rival the AF launch on this route. Could this be where the additional pax will go?

BA is effectively going to offer less seats than last year's demand between this city pair. I really fail to see the reason behind this. Is it an error from BA? Is it a way to put prices up on the route? What about those periods when it will make a loss?

Is EasyJet going to respond by having more flights to LGW, STN & LTN?


User currently offlineBMED From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2004, 860 posts, RR: 6
Reply 4, posted (6 years 5 months 1 week 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 2617 times:



Quoting Ncelhr (Reply 3):
Is EasyJet going to respond by having more flights to LGW, STN & LTN

Maybe we might see some of the A321s from GB Airways been used on the nice routes for that film weekend? If the aircraft are in the fleet at that point still then it would seem silly not too. Even if the crew arn't type rated at LGW, LTN and STN I'm sure it might be worth EZY money to base a crew their for a weekend on nightstops?



Living the jetset life! No better way to be
User currently offlinePlanesarecool From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2001, 4119 posts, RR: 11
Reply 5, posted (6 years 5 months 1 week 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 2562 times:



Quoting Ncelhr (Reply 3):
I really fail to see the reason behind this. Is it an error from BA?

The main reason is that BA are starting up ex-GB Airways routes with their own metal, and therefore some flights had to go. The dropped routes from Gatwick are Aberdeen, Algiers, Nice, Prague and Reykjavik. Other than KEF, three of the other four are already served from Heathrow, and the fourth (Algiers) is simply moving to Heathrow. Because Nice is already well served from LHR, it made more sense to drop that than to drop a route which is only operated from Gatwick.


User currently offlineBALHRWWCC From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (6 years 5 months 1 week 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 2531 times:



Quoting BMED (Reply 4):
Maybe we might see some of the A321s from GB Airways been used on the nice routes for that film weekend? If the aircraft are in the fleet at that point still then it would seem silly not too. Even if the crew arn't type rated at LGW, LTN and STN I'm sure it might be worth EZY money to base a crew their for a weekend on nightstops?

The A321's at the end of March will be the property of EZY. So they will not be used by BA. In fact 2 x A321 a/c reg: G-TTIA and B are going to ZB before the end of March

The remaining A321's and the A320's will operate the current GB airways routes when EZY take them over. These aircraft will solely operate the routes below

LGW to AJA / ALC / BIA / CFU / DLM / FAO / GIB / LPA / HRG / HER / IBZ / INN / ACE / FNC / MAH / AGP / MLA / RAK/ MPL / JMK / NTE / PMI / PFO / RHO / SSH / TFS

Also

MAN to HER / INN / MLA / AGP / PFO / TFS.

Flights from LGW to ALC / FAO / IBZ / INN / MAH / AGP / RAK and PMI will add frequency and compliment the existing EZY schedule all the other destinations including the MAN base are New for EZY.

BA HAS NO PLANS TO TAKE ON THE A320/321's in the GB Fleet

Quoting Ncelhr (Reply 3):
- B757: 138Y and 35C = 173 pax per aircraft. Total daily max capacity: 6 flights each way = 6 x 173 x 2 = 2 076
- RJ100: 110 pax per aircraft max

Understood however BA is does very very well out of C class pax on this route as such C from end of May to October will be set at 45 - 70 seats on the 757 the current configs in the system for the RJ100's range from 10C/97M to 60C/37M

The LCY route forward sales are better than expected. What BA are trying to do is ensure that nearly every NCE a/c goes full over the summer months.

The only time a 767 would be subbed onto the route is if there was extreme disruption and flights had to be consolidated and then it would only be if there was no other option. The 767's are being used to concentrate on flight from LHR to DME / LCA / IST / ATH Which can easily operate and do operate configured 135C/94M and certain high load connecting flights from destinations such as ARN / DUS Also busy early am business flights to FRA. Remember BA have configured a large number of there 767's for longhaul ops there is only 7 767's on the short haul fleet reg's are G-BNWA, G-BNWB, G-BNWX, G-BNWZ, G-BZHA, G-BZHB, G-BZHC,

There are rumours that 2 more could be possibly configured into Longhaul config the 1st one would be G-BNWX and the other would be one of the G-BNW? regs


User currently offlineVV701 From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2005, 7363 posts, RR: 17
Reply 7, posted (6 years 5 months 1 week 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 2495 times:



Quoting BALHRWWCC (Reply 1):
NCE will ba a 757 only route. NO 767 a/c will operate from T3 in the summer 08 timetable.

According to the on-line BA timetable the LHR-NCE flight will continue to be from T1 and not T3 throughout the summer period including during the Monaco Grand Prix and Cannes Film Festival. According to the timetable it only moves to T3 on 17 September 2008, just 6 weeks before the winter timetable starts.


User currently offlineBALHRWWCC From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (6 years 5 months 1 week 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 2452 times:



Quoting VV701 (Reply 7):
According to the on-line BA timetable the LHR-NCE flight will continue to be from T1 and not T3 throughout the summer period including during the Monaco Grand Prix and Cannes Film Festival. According to the timetable it only moves to T3 on 17 September 2008, just 6 weeks before the winter timetable starts.

I stand corrected flights will operate ex T1 until T3 is ready for them to move in. AY/IB/QF will move in september to the oneworld hub terminal


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