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Another B773 Engine Ifsd (SQ)  
User currently offlineBlueShamu330s From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2001, 1620 posts, RR: 10
Posted (6 months 4 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 10843 times:

SQ334 SIN-CDG diverted into FRA

http://www.crash-aerien.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=6239

30th January 2008 - Wednesday - Flight Number SQ334 / Aircraft (B777-300ER)

Airport Scheduled Time Actual Time Estimated Time Status
Departure From Singapore (SIN)
Terminal 3 23:55 00:03 (+1) Departed
Arrival In Paris (CDG) 06:55 (+1) DIVERTED
Arrival In Frankfurt (FRA) 06:30 (+1) 06:38 (+1) Arrived
Departure From Frankfurt (FRA) 07:30 (+1) 07:30 (+1) Cancelled
Arrival In Paris (CDG) 06:55 (+1) Cancelled

Shamu

[Edited 2008-02-01 07:41:07]


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36 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineCHRISBA777ER From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2001, 4255 posts, RR: 51
Reply 1, posted (6 months 4 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 10601 times:

Havent AF been having a load of IFSD problems with their GE90s recently? - i seem to recall two AF flights landing with one engine at MXP recently.


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User currently offlineBlueShamu330s From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2001, 1620 posts, RR: 10
Reply 2, posted (6 months 4 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 10518 times:



Quoting CHRISBA777ER (Reply 1):
Havent AF been having a load of IFSD problems with their GE90s recently? - i seem to recall two AF flights landing with one engine at MXP recently.

Indeed....


Another AF 777 Had An Emergency Landing In MXP (by 777 Jan 26 2008 in Civil Aviation)

AF 777 Emergency Landing @ FCO Today (by 777 Dec 12 2007 in Civil Aviation)

Shamu


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User currently offlineLeskova From Germany, joined Oct 2003, 5891 posts, RR: 71
Reply 3, posted (6 months 4 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 10246 times:
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At least that explains the SQ B777-30ER that I saw parked here when I left for Zürich on 30 January... I wasn't paying attention when I came back yesterday - am I right in guessing that it's since returned to SIN or carried on to CDG?


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User currently offlineMrBrightSide From United States, joined Jan 2008, 202 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (6 months 4 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 10062 times:

In the past two months, there have been around six incidents with B777 and emergency landings... four AF, unfortunate incident at LHR for BA and now SQ. AF had two em. landings in Russia (might be wrong, but I am certain of at least one) and FCO / MXP incidents.

Isn't it a bit odd that B777 as has these issues - we're not hearing about B747, B767, A330 having emergency landings due to a plethora with what seems to be engine issues (might be off on this one, but still...).

Winter 2007/08 will not go in good books for two long-haul birds, the A340 and B777. Hull losses from both sides (Etihad A436, anybody knows the status of Iberia A346?), BA will prolly write this B777 off, and these emergency landings.. just weird.


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User currently offlinePlaneInsomniac From Canada, joined Nov 2007, 295 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (6 months 4 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 9416 times:

Whenever I see a thread like this I am wondering - where are all those people claiming that twins are actually safer than quads and that on this planet, twins never have to perform emergency landings due to engine failures now? (Literal quote from another thread.)


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User currently offlineOsiris30 From Barbados, joined Sep 2006, 2433 posts, RR: 12
Reply 6, posted (6 months 4 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 9327 times:



Quoting PlaneInsomniac (Reply 5):
Whenever I see a thread like this I am wondering - where are all those people claiming that twins are actually safer than quads and that on this planet, twins never have to perform emergency landings due to engine failures now? (Literal quote from another thread.)

IFSD != unsafe aircraft.. hence twins are just as safe as quads.. (we don't know what caused the incident @ LHR, but it's entirely possible it could have taken down a quad too). Last time I checked none of those IFSD resulted in anything other than emergency landings and minor inconvenience (i.e. no one bit it).

Additionally if we exclude AF we have one SQ incident and one very bizarre BA incident...


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User currently offlineFlipdewaf From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2006, 534 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (6 months 4 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 9147 times:
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Quoting Osiris30 (Reply 6):
Additionally if we exclude AF we have one SQ incident and one very bizarre BA incident...

Thats right, if we ignore some of the problems we have less of an issue.  Wink .

I find it strange that these incidents have happened so close together, I dont for a moment think that the aircraft is unsafe though.

Fred

User currently offlineSunriseValley From Canada, joined Jul 2004, 1710 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (6 months 4 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 9112 times:



Quoting Osiris30 (Reply 6):
Additionally if we exclude AF we have one SQ incident and one very bizarre BA incident...

What is not clear in respect of the AF shutdowns as reported in this list, is in some of the postings, the type of 777 involved . The point is that the engines , while built by GE, are different between the two types of 777 in the AF fleet.
Thus it is misleading to simply state that AF have had "X" shutdowns without identifying which 777 model was involved.

User currently offlineB777ER From United States, joined Jun 2004, 481 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (6 months 4 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 8968 times:

Dont know the answer myself but am wondering if any MX people out there can advise if Boeing/GE issue periodic software updates that are input into the aircraft/engine computers? A bad software update (i.e., bad piece of coding) could be responsible for this maybe?


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User currently offlineTrex8 From United States, joined Nov 2002, 2538 posts, RR: 9
Reply 10, posted (6 months 4 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 8903 times:
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Quoting MrBrightSide (Reply 4):
Isn't it a bit odd that B777 as has these issues - we're not hearing about B747, B767, A330 having emergency landings due to a plethora with what seems to be engine issues (might be off on this one, but still...).

wasn't there a QR and CI A330 with Ge engines where they had both engines flame out?

User currently offlineAndrewUber From United States, joined Jul 2003, 2244 posts, RR: 41
Reply 11, posted (6 months 4 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 7753 times:
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Quoting MrBrightSide (Reply 4):
BA will prolly write this B777 off

Are they leaning towards writing it off now?


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User currently offlineLightsaber From United States, joined Jan 2005, 3675 posts, RR: 68
Reply 12, posted (6 months 4 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 7626 times:
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All of these in flight shutdowns are odd... the engine makers like to brag about their impressive in flight shutdown rates... so this many incidents will be investigated by all of the engine vendors. Actually, pretty much every in flight shut down is investigated.

GE does have the least 'flame out' margin of the three engine vendors. Note: I'm a combustion engineer... so this isn't wild speculation. Why ? Its part of the pollution mitigation strategy. A leaner 'dome' can be used to mitigate smoke in the engine. Once you have low smoke, its easier to engineer away NOx. But it is done at the cost of tougher relight. But I really don't think its the cause... otherwise we would have been hearing about this for years.

I wonder, in today's high oil price environment are quality controls on the fuel slipping? Is water getting into the fuel?  scratchchin  Note, I'm speculating... usually there is a cause to increased in flight shutdown rates, but I do not know the root cause, so I speculate.  Wink But that's what a.net is for!  bigthumbsup 

Lightsaber


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User currently offlineZeke From Hong Kong SAR, PRC, joined Dec 2006, 3428 posts, RR: 45
Reply 13, posted (6 months 4 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 7579 times:



Quoting BlueShamu330s (Thread starter):
SQ334 SIN-CDG diverted into FRA

Apparently their second in a week, I heard of another one that diverted into TPE before this.

Quoting MrBrightSide (Reply 4):
Isn't it a bit odd that B777 as has these issues - we're not hearing about B747, B767, A330 having emergency landings due to a plethora with what seems to be engine issues (might be off on this one, but still...).

They also happen, most IFSDs don't make it on here. The 777 has had some bad press of late so the spotlight is on. There was a time when RR had a similar run of problems on the Trent 700, the CF6 has had it run of problems as well.

Quoting PlaneInsomniac (Reply 5):
Whenever I see a thread like this I am wondering - where are all those people claiming that twins are actually safer than quads and that on this planet, twins never have to perform emergency landings due to engine failures now?

Never met a pilot who wants fewer engines for remote area long haul flights.

Quoting Osiris30 (Reply 6):
Additionally if we exclude AF we have one SQ incident and one very bizarre BA incident...

Apparently AF have had 6 gearboxes failures on the GE90 alone.


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User currently offlineJohnClipper From Hong Kong SAR, PRC, joined Aug 2005, 304 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (6 months 4 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 7529 times:

BA was a RR, not a GE!

User currently offlineMmedford From United States, joined Nov 2007, 15 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (6 months 4 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 6823 times:

With all these recent IFSD, is it safe to assume AF's fleet of 777 ETOPS ratings are affected?

User currently offlineOsiris30 From Barbados, joined Sep 2006, 2433 posts, RR: 12
Reply 16, posted (6 months 4 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 6565 times:



Quoting SunriseValley (Reply 8):
What is not clear in respect of the AF shutdowns as reported in this list, is in some of the postings, the type of 777 involved . The point is that the engines , while built by GE, are different between the two types of 777 in the AF fleet.
Thus it is misleading to simply state that AF have had "X" shutdowns without identifying which 777 model was involved.



Quoting Flipdewaf (Reply 7):
Thats right, if we ignore some of the problems we have less of an issue. Wink .

My point was more that the AF issues seem to be statistical anomalies. AF just don't operate THAT many 777s as to have such a monopoly on the issues. I wasn't suggesting that we throw them out, I was just trying to point out that we've had what 6 'issues' of late.. but as a percentage it's still very small, and we don't even know what caused the most major (and the only really serious one).


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User currently offlinePilotNTrng From United States, joined Dec 2003, 731 posts, RR: 5
Reply 17, posted (6 months 4 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 6366 times:

Call me what you will, I wish that at least some one would explain the acronym IFSD, you know we all aren't total dorks  Smile


What the?
User currently offline757223 From United States, joined Mar 2005, 66 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (6 months 4 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 6254 times:

IFSD = In-Flight Shutdown


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User currently offlineScotron11 From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2004, 1121 posts, RR: 2
Reply 19, posted (6 months 4 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 6157 times:
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Quoting AndrewUber (Reply 11):

Are they leaning towards writing it off now?

Yes. They already have agreed payment with their insurance company.

User currently offlineCX flyboy From Hong Kong SAR, PRC, joined Dec 1999, 5344 posts, RR: 53
Reply 20, posted (6 months 4 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 5587 times: