30th January 2008 - Wednesday - Flight Number SQ334 / Aircraft (B777-300ER)
Airport Scheduled Time Actual Time Estimated Time Status
Departure From Singapore (SIN)
Terminal 3 23:55 00:03 (+1) Departed
Arrival In Paris (CDG) 06:55 (+1) DIVERTED
Arrival In Frankfurt (FRA) 06:30 (+1) 06:38 (+1) Arrived
Departure From Frankfurt (FRA) 07:30 (+1) 07:30 (+1) Cancelled
Arrival In Paris (CDG) 06:55 (+1) Cancelled
Shamu
[Edited 2008-02-01 07:41:07]
So I drive a 4x4. So what?! Tax the a$$ off me for it...oh, you already have... :-(
BlueShamu330s From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2001, 2025 posts, RR: 31 Reply 2, posted (1 year 9 months 1 week 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 10843 times:
Quoting CHRISBA777ER (Reply 1): Havent AF been having a load of IFSD problems with their GE90s recently? - i seem to recall two AF flights landing with one engine at MXP recently.
Leskova From Germany, joined Oct 2003, 6075 posts, RR: 82 Reply 3, posted (1 year 9 months 1 week 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 10571 times:
At least that explains the SQ B777-30ER that I saw parked here when I left for Zürich on 30 January... I wasn't paying attention when I came back yesterday - am I right in guessing that it's since returned to SIN or carried on to CDG?
MrBrightSide From United States, joined Jan 2008, 202 posts, RR: 1 Reply 4, posted (1 year 9 months 1 week 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 10387 times:
In the past two months, there have been around six incidents with B777 and emergency landings... four AF, unfortunate incident at LHR for BA and now SQ. AF had two em. landings in Russia (might be wrong, but I am certain of at least one) and FCO / MXP incidents.
Isn't it a bit odd that B777 as has these issues - we're not hearing about B747, B767, A330 having emergency landings due to a plethora with what seems to be engine issues (might be off on this one, but still...).
Winter 2007/08 will not go in good books for two long-haul birds, the A340 and B777. Hull losses from both sides (Etihad A436, anybody knows the status of Iberia A346?), BA will prolly write this B777 off, and these emergency landings.. just weird.
There's no better way to travel than fly (shameless rip of LH's slogan ;-)
PlaneInsomniac From Canada, joined Nov 2007, 500 posts, RR: 0 Reply 5, posted (1 year 9 months 1 week 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 9741 times:
Whenever I see a thread like this I am wondering - where are all those people claiming that twins are actually safer than quads and that on this planet, twins never have to perform emergency landings due to engine failures now? (Literal quote from another thread.)
Osiris30 From Barbados, joined Sep 2006, 3131 posts, RR: 24 Reply 6, posted (1 year 9 months 1 week 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 9652 times:
Quoting PlaneInsomniac (Reply 5): Whenever I see a thread like this I am wondering - where are all those people claiming that twins are actually safer than quads and that on this planet, twins never have to perform emergency landings due to engine failures now? (Literal quote from another thread.)
IFSD != unsafe aircraft.. hence twins are just as safe as quads.. (we don't know what caused the incident @ LHR, but it's entirely possible it could have taken down a quad too). Last time I checked none of those IFSD resulted in anything other than emergency landings and minor inconvenience (i.e. no one bit it).
Additionally if we exclude AF we have one SQ incident and one very bizarre BA incident...
I don't care what you think of my opinion. It's my opinion, so have a nice day :)
SunriseValley From Canada, joined Jul 2004, 2205 posts, RR: 1 Reply 8, posted (1 year 9 months 1 week 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 9437 times:
Quoting Osiris30 (Reply 6): Additionally if we exclude AF we have one SQ incident and one very bizarre BA incident...
What is not clear in respect of the AF shutdowns as reported in this list, is in some of the postings, the type of 777 involved . The point is that the engines , while built by GE, are different between the two types of 777 in the AF fleet.
Thus it is misleading to simply state that AF have had "X" shutdowns without identifying which 777 model was involved.
B777ER From United States, joined Jun 2004, 497 posts, RR: 0 Reply 9, posted (1 year 9 months 1 week 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 9293 times:
Dont know the answer myself but am wondering if any MX people out there can advise if Boeing/GE issue periodic software updates that are input into the aircraft/engine computers? A bad software update (i.e., bad piece of coding) could be responsible for this maybe?
Trex8 From United States, joined Nov 2002, 2903 posts, RR: 17 Reply 10, posted (1 year 9 months 1 week 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 9228 times:
Quoting MrBrightSide (Reply 4): Isn't it a bit odd that B777 as has these issues - we're not hearing about B747, B767, A330 having emergency landings due to a plethora with what seems to be engine issues (might be off on this one, but still...).
wasn't there a QR and CI A330 with Ge engines where they had both engines flame out?
Lightsaber From United States, joined Jan 2005, 4940 posts, RR: 85 Reply 12, posted (1 year 9 months 1 week 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 7951 times:
All of these in flight shutdowns are odd... the engine makers like to brag about their impressive in flight shutdown rates... so this many incidents will be investigated by all of the engine vendors. Actually, pretty much every in flight shut down is investigated.
GE does have the least 'flame out' margin of the three engine vendors. Note: I'm a combustion engineer... so this isn't wild speculation. Why ? Its part of the pollution mitigation strategy. A leaner 'dome' can be used to mitigate smoke in the engine. Once you have low smoke, its easier to engineer away NOx. But it is done at the cost of tougher relight. But I really don't think its the cause... otherwise we would have been hearing about this for years.
I wonder, in today's high oil price environment are quality controls on the fuel slipping? Is water getting into the fuel? Note, I'm speculating... usually there is a cause to increased in flight shutdown rates, but I do not know the root cause, so I speculate. But that's what a.net is for!
Lightsaber
Need to throw a party every six months to organize the place.
Apparently their second in a week, I heard of another one that diverted into TPE before this.
Quoting MrBrightSide (Reply 4): Isn't it a bit odd that B777 as has these issues - we're not hearing about B747, B767, A330 having emergency landings due to a plethora with what seems to be engine issues (might be off on this one, but still...).
They also happen, most IFSDs don't make it on here. The 777 has had some bad press of late so the spotlight is on. There was a time when RR had a similar run of problems on the Trent 700, the CF6 has had it run of problems as well.
Quoting PlaneInsomniac (Reply 5): Whenever I see a thread like this I am wondering - where are all those people claiming that twins are actually safer than quads and that on this planet, twins never have to perform emergency landings due to engine failures now?
Never met a pilot who wants fewer engines for remote area long haul flights.
Quoting Osiris30 (Reply 6): Additionally if we exclude AF we have one SQ incident and one very bizarre BA incident...
Apparently AF have had 6 gearboxes failures on the GE90 alone.
Cathay Pacific wins Airline of the Year 2009 Award. Great service. Great people. Great fares.
JohnClipper From Hong Kong SAR, PRC, joined Aug 2005, 511 posts, RR: 0 Reply 14, posted (1 year 9 months 1 week 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 7854 times:
Osiris30 From Barbados, joined Sep 2006, 3131 posts, RR: 24 Reply 16, posted (1 year 9 months 1 week 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 6890 times:
Quoting SunriseValley (Reply 8): What is not clear in respect of the AF shutdowns as reported in this list, is in some of the postings, the type of 777 involved . The point is that the engines , while built by GE, are different between the two types of 777 in the AF fleet.
Thus it is misleading to simply state that AF have had "X" shutdowns without identifying which 777 model was involved.
Quoting Flipdewaf (Reply 7): Thats right, if we ignore some of the problems we have less of an issue. Wink .
My point was more that the AF issues seem to be statistical anomalies. AF just don't operate THAT many 777s as to have such a monopoly on the issues. I wasn't suggesting that we throw them out, I was just trying to point out that we've had what 6 'issues' of late.. but as a percentage it's still very small, and we don't even know what caused the most major (and the only really serious one).
I don't care what you think of my opinion. It's my opinion, so have a nice day :)
CX flyboy From Hong Kong SAR, PRC, joined Dec 1999, 5571 posts, RR: 61 Reply 20, posted (1 year 9 months 1 week 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 5912 times:
Quoting PlaneInsomniac (Reply 5): Whenever I see a thread like this I am wondering - where are all those people claiming that twins are actually safer than quads and that on this planet, twins never have to perform emergency landings due to engine failures now?
As Zeke says, you would be surprised at the number of IFSDs which happen worldwide on a weekly basis. We hear of a few of them which make it to the media but the vast majority go unnoticed. Certainly the airlines are not in any hurry to advertise them!
And according to the preliminary report the engines were still running at the time of the "landing". But requests for additional power were somehow not getting to them. So the BA event might be unrelated to all these other incidents
FlySSC From Lebanon, joined Aug 2003, 6289 posts, RR: 65 Reply 24, posted (1 year 9 months 1 week 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 4904 times:
Quoting Mmedford (Reply 15): With all these recent IFSD, is it safe to assume AF's fleet of 777 ETOPS ratings are affected?
No. ETOPS rules ar not affected for AF nor any other airline.
Quoting Osiris30 (Reply 16): AF just don't operate THAT many 777s as to have such a monopoly on the issues.
Well, 49 B777 (25 B77ER + 24 B773ER) operated by AF is quite a strong fleet ...
Quoting Zeke (Reply 13): Apparently AF have had 6 gearboxes failures on the GE90 alone.
The MXP incident was actually the 7th diversion due to engine trouble for an AF B777 in 10 years of operations, but not all of them were gearboxes failures. But this incident on F-GSQO at MXP is exactly similar to what happened to F-GSQS at PTP last June 26th and both of hem are indeed gearboxes failures.
BlueShamu330s From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2001, 2025 posts, RR: 31 Reply 25, posted (1 year 9 months 1 week 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 2574 times:
Has there been any GE response to these incidents; did they each have unique characterisitcs/factors, or have they established a common link between them all?
Shamu
So I drive a 4x4. So what?! Tax the a$$ off me for it...oh, you already have... :-(
26 FlySSC: Just got the information : Following the recent in flight incidents on several B773ER, General Electric has announced a World Campaign of technical c
27 BlueShamu330s: Thanks FlySSC Is there any specific mention of where such checks are focussing on, and is the AF grounding self-imposed? Shamu
28 FlySSC: No more details available for the moment.
29 PhilSquares: Same aircraft involved. Engine was just change in TPE.
30 EIRules: I have flown on the T7 a number of times with a number of airlines (including some of those who are mentioned above). I have never felt unsafe on one
31 Trex8: there certainly is no need for mass panic but if there are continued problems with any engine type on a twin it may impact operators abilities to und
32 Tdscanuck: They do. In principal, yes, although such an occurrence would cause a huge foo-fa-rah over adequate testing of software revisions. Still an option, o
33 CHRISBA777ER: Nothing to see here - the 777 is the safest plane in the skies and the IFSDs only get reported because the plane is "a jumbo jet" in the eyes of the m
34 Ikramerica: Actually, there have been more! Ground the fleet! We aren't hearing about them, but they are happening. All the time. A340, 747, 767, 757, 737, MD80,
35 SEPilot: Here's one of them. I never saw anyone say that twins never have to perform emergency landings due to engine failures; what I have seen and what I ha
36 Zeke: How many times have you been a couple of hours from the closest bit of land, let alone an airport in your single, with the responsibility of several
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Note, I'm speculating... usually there is a cause to increased in flight shutdown rates, but I do not know the root cause, so I speculate. 
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