Sponsor Message:
Civil Aviation Forum
My Starred Topics | Profile | New Topic | Forum Index | Help | Search 
Hey, Where's My Airline Seat?  
User currently offlineTCT From United States of America, joined Jan 2008, 205 posts, RR: 0
Posted (6 years 6 months 3 weeks 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 5095 times:

Interesting story of a woman who bought an entire seat and received only half of it, what are your thoughts on this?

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/22884192/

31 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinePa747sp From Australia, joined Jan 2008, 228 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (6 years 6 months 3 weeks 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 5041 times:

I thought, for safety reasons, armrests had to be lowered during take-off and landing. How was it that the crew ignored this?


Nothing seems as good since the VC10.
User currently offlineOHLHD From Finland, joined Dec 2004, 3962 posts, RR: 25
Reply 2, posted (6 years 6 months 3 weeks 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 5017 times:

That is bad luck. I am sure this will bring the endless " should fat people pay for 2 seats" discussion back to A.Net.

User currently offlineTCT From United States of America, joined Jan 2008, 205 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (6 years 6 months 3 weeks 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 5020 times:



Quoting Pa747sp (Reply 1):
I thought, for safety reasons, armrests had to be lowered during take-off and landing. How was it that the crew ignored this?

Thats the first I here of that, maybe your right, anyone know? Oh and just wanted to explain what I thought about this, I'm not the skinniest person myself, but I do believe that a persons size should not interfere with another persons comfort, I believe in Southwest's controversial policy, that you have to buy another seat if your to big, is absolutely right, When you buy a ticket there isn't an option of buying a full seat or half of it, so if your size is going to interfere with the other persons comfort or you body is out of your own seat I think it unacceptable. Why should a person have to be miserable in order for the bigger person to enjoy their flight? It's just my opinion on this.


User currently offlinePa747sp From Australia, joined Jan 2008, 228 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (6 years 6 months 3 weeks 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 4966 times:



Quoting TCT (Reply 3):
Thats the first I here of that, maybe your right, anyone know?

I know that for most international carriers. if a person cannot be safely accommodated in an economy seat with the arms down, they have to buy a second seat, or a business or first class seat. My understanding was that this requirement was not only to ensure that problems like this one would not arise, but also for safety. The safety briefings that are made at the beginning of the flight mention that armrests must be down. I thought it was to ensure that passengers are braced against sideways movement in the event of an incident.



Nothing seems as good since the VC10.
User currently offlineWNCrew From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 1457 posts, RR: 10
Reply 5, posted (6 years 6 months 3 weeks 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 4930 times:

Aisle-side armrests should be in the down position to keep pax who may loose consciousness etc. from falling out into the aisle and block the way out. It serves a similar purpose as that little luggage restraint bar under each seat.


ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
User currently offlineTCT From United States of America, joined Jan 2008, 205 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (6 years 6 months 3 weeks 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 4920 times:



Quoting WNCrew (Reply 6):
Aisle-side armrests should be in the down position to keep pax who may loose consciousness etc. from falling out into the aisle and block the way out. It serves a similar purpose as that little luggage restraint bar under each seat

On all the flights that I have been on, on wich that I've had an aisle seat I noticed that I could not move the armreast facing the aisle at all, I guess there permanatly in the down position?


User currently offlineGayStudPilot From United States of America, joined Dec 2007, 453 posts, RR: 7
Reply 7, posted (6 years 6 months 3 weeks 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 4877 times:

Delta should have handled the situation much differently. It's not just a passenger comfort issue, it's a safety issue.

I'm all for converting those "size-wise" luggage sizers at the gates into "a@@-wise" seat sizers. Most economy seats are approximately 18" wide. With obesity in the US a near epidemic levels I see large numbers of passengers weekly whose rear ends are well over 18" and that's before the sit down spread!

Airlines should not make free accommodations for these passengers. Either you fit in the specified size seat at the specified price point or you purchase 2 seats. Overweight passengers have been put in first class on some of my flights and I am not a fan of this. The vast majority of these people do have a choice -- a choice to eat right and to exercise -- they simply choose not to. So why should the rest of the flying public subsidize them?


User currently offlineTys777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 404 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (6 years 6 months 3 weeks 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 4752 times:

I'm glad WN has that policy. They understand the reality that not everyone can fit into one seat and those sitting around them shouldn't have to suffer because of it.


Is it bad that I get excited to see even a CRJ overfly? Man, what this place does to you
User currently offlineWNCrew From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 1457 posts, RR: 10
Reply 9, posted (6 years 6 months 3 weeks 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 4576 times:

I too am glad we have the policy we do, in fact just recently while working a flight with a load of 16 the OPS Agent STILL brought down the Customer of Size and went through the whole process of having them sit in a seat and then explaining the process and having them purchase a seat. Even though we knew there would be room it all comes down to consistency, this way the customer knows what to expect next time and is LESS likely to try and "get by". When all was said and done, the pax got a full refund for that second seat and was assured to have proper space during our flight!

As for the armrests, at least on WN you will see writing on the interior side of the aisle-side armrests indicating they should be down for taxi, takeoff and landing. As someone pointed out, some aisle-side armrests won't go up at all, this is true for some of our older -300.-500 series aircraft but nonetheless there is a required number of aisle-side armrests that MUST go up per the ADA. I think it's at least 50% for any aircraft put into service after 1992 or something like that but I can't find the exact number right now.



ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
User currently offlineDoona From Sweden, joined Feb 2005, 3769 posts, RR: 13
Reply 10, posted (6 years 6 months 3 weeks 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 4520 times:



Quoting Tys777 (Reply 8):
I'm glad WN has that policy. They understand the reality that not everyone can fit into one seat and those sitting around them shouldn't have to suffer because of it.

Agree. And I believe that the large person would also be more comfortable.

Cheers
Mats



Sure, we're concerned for our lives. Just not as concerned as saving 9 bucks on a roundtrip to Ft. Myers.
User currently offlineDL767captain From United States of America, joined Mar 2007, 2539 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (6 years 6 months 3 weeks 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 4423 times:

Last week my dad and i were flying to SAN from ORD on a 757, we had a last minute flight but were able to get into economy plus, we had the middle and window seat. So we sit down and are happy with all our extra leg room until a large woman came and sat in the aisle seat. She easily took up her seat, then half of my dads middle seat, which meant he had to move over onto part of my seat which meant i was pushed up against the wall. So basically we paid for one and a half seats, i want a half refund for that flight!
I am not discriminating against larger people but if they can't fit in a seat with the arm rest down then yes they should buy two seats. Why should me and my dad have to sit there and be uncomfortable just because she didnt by two seats. I understand that would be really awkward for a ticketing agent to ask her to sit in a seat and see if she needs to buy two seats, but that was a long flight to be pushed against the wall! I'm 18 and not fat so i can easily fit into the already small 18" seats but take away 6 of those inches and i get pretty cramped! Oh and those walls get insanely cold!


User currently offlinePhelpsie87 From United States of America, joined Apr 2006, 498 posts, RR: 2
Reply 12, posted (6 years 6 months 3 weeks 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 4306 times:



Quoting TCT (Reply 6):
On all the flights that I have been on, on wich that I've had an aisle seat I noticed that I could not move the armreast facing the aisle at all, I guess there permanatly in the down position?

On most aircraft, there is a release lever towards the aft end of the arm rest, just before it curves down the side of the seat. It is usually located on the underside of the arm rest, right at the curve. A move up/down with this little release lever, and a jiggle of the arm rest, should bring it right up.


User currently offlineFlyASAGuy2005 From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 7004 posts, RR: 11
Reply 13, posted (6 years 6 months 3 weeks 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 4181 times:

To hell with being politically correct! I'm sorry but I would have cried fowl on this one. There is no reason why I should spend an ass load of cash on an airline ticket and have no feed and forced to only sit in half my seat to boot.


What gets measured gets done.
User currently offlineXJETFlyer From United States of America, joined Apr 2007, 326 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (6 years 6 months 3 weeks 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 4016 times:

What has this industry come to? If your fat and are flowing over in to the next seat, then you need to buy (2) tickets! I'm a big man at 6'6 300 lbs. I do not flow in to the other seats, but I always buy 2 seats in economy when I can not fly F/C.
When I fly CO Express with my wife, I buy two seats and the seat across the isle for my wife. It just makes since to me.
When will people take personal responsibility for themselves?


User currently offlineAWACSooner From United States of America, joined Jan 2008, 1900 posts, RR: 1
Reply 15, posted (6 years 6 months 3 weeks 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 3996 times:

Count me in with the "make them buy two seats crowd."
(Nothing personal to all my plus-sized friends out there.)

The simple fact of the matter is that, whether it's genetics or personal choices, it isn't unreasonable for the person of size to be required to buy that extra seat if there is no conceivable way for another passenger to be COMFORTABLY seated in that seat next to them.


User currently offlineCanadianNorth From Canada, joined Aug 2002, 3389 posts, RR: 9
Reply 16, posted (6 years 6 months 3 weeks 2 days ago) and read 3942 times:

Being a fairly skinny guy I find that I can easily fit in a standard economy seat, but I know the feeling of being sandwiched. Normally I fly non-rev so I really can't complain.

But I do have to say that as harsh as it sounds, the rules should be really simple: either you fit or you don't. You get what you pay for, and if you only paid for one seat you should only get 1.00 seats. If you need more, then you buy more. It's just that simple.

If I can't get from here to school in one transit zone, I pay the extra to have a pass good for two zones. If I can't go all afternoon on one sandwhich, I make two sandwiches. If you don't fit in the seat, you buy two seats. It's just that simple.


CanadianNorth



What could possibly go wrong?
User currently offlineTCT From United States of America, joined Jan 2008, 205 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (6 years 6 months 3 weeks 2 days ago) and read 3866 times:



Quoting CanadianNorth (Reply 16):
If I can't get from here to school in one transit zone, I pay the extra to have a pass good for two zones. If I can't go all afternoon on one sandwhich, I make two sandwiches. If you don't fit in the seat, you buy two seats. It's just that simple.

Extremely well said, you need to e-mail that quote to an airline and have them use it as their policy, lol.


User currently offlineFlyDeltaJets87 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (6 years 6 months 3 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 3625 times:



Quoting GayStudPilot (Reply 7):
I'm all for converting those "size-wise" luggage sizers at the gates into "a@@-wise" seat sizers. Most economy seats are approximately 18" wide. With obesity in the US a near epidemic levels I see large numbers of passengers weekly whose rear ends are well over 18" and that's before the sit down spread!

They have the seat testers at theme parks for roller coasters. I think it would make sense to have them at airports too.

Quote:
A flight attendant suggested that the only way to change my seat was to “find a cute boy or girl” and sit on their lap. Not only did I find this offensive, but also it was distressing"

If true, I would have come up with and used many ways to make the flight attendants life difficult during the flight.


Quoting CanadianNorth (Reply 16):

What's even worse is that Shamoo is doing it at the expense of someone else's seat and space. It's not even a "hey, we feel sorry you're huge so here's an extra seat" from the airline. The "extra space" comes at the expense of someone else's. It's more like Shamoo decides they're extra hungry at dinner that evening and decides to just go take food from the people sitting at the table next to them.


User currently offlineJetblueguy22 From United States of America, joined Nov 2007, 2783 posts, RR: 4
Reply 19, posted (6 years 6 months 3 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 3468 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
HEAD MODERATOR



Quoting DL767captain (Reply 11):
I understand that would be really awkward for a ticketing agent to ask her to sit in a seat and see if she needs to buy two seats,

Im sure it is but that isn't the ticketing agent's problem its the passengers. Just because your overweight doesn't mean you have special privileges.

Quoting FlyDeltaJets87 (Reply 18):
If true, I would have come up with and used many ways to make the flight attendants life difficult during the flight.

This my friend is when the call button really comes in handy! "You are now free to use electronic-ding-al devices. With the exception of two way devi-ding-ces.
Blue



You push down on that yoke, the houses get bigger, you pull back on the yoke, the houses get bigger- Ken Foltz
User currently offlineFlipdewaf From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2006, 1568 posts, RR: 1
Reply 20, posted (6 years 6 months 3 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 3413 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

bigger people should have to pay more!!!!! If you don't want to pay more then make a lifestyle change, its easy to do!

Fred


User currently offlineFlyDeltaJets87 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 21, posted (6 years 6 months 3 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 3311 times:



Quoting DL767captain (Reply 11):
I understand that would be really awkward for a ticketing agent to ask her to sit in a seat and see if she needs

Why? Amusment parks put people out there with who's job it is to check that each rider is of the proper height, which they do with a simple height checker. It's no different here. Put an Ass-Wise seat next to the check-in counter and at the gate. You don't fit- you buy two or you don't fly. And if you're incredibly huge- not just barely requiring two seats from going just a little bit over where one could make the argument that they didn't know, but those who truly do take up half of the seat next to them- and don't have the common courtesy to buy two seats, I say the airline should be allowed to charge the price of a walk-up, same day one-way Y-fare.  devil 

Quoting Jetblueguy22 (Reply 19):
This my friend is when the call button really comes in handy! "You are now free to use electronic-ding-al devices. With the exception of two way devi-ding-ces.

And depending on the length of the flight, do things like press it in flight one time and then when she comes by "ooo I fogot what I was going to ask". Then a couple minutes later press it again and say "I remember now." and hand them a small piece of trash for them to throw away and say "I would have gotten up and done this myself, but as you can see, I'm kind of stuck in here". Then later I would press it to ask for a napkin to blow my nose, then wait a couple minutes, press it again for her to come back after I'd blown my nose and have the F/A throw that away too.


User currently offlineJaxs170 From United States of America, joined Jun 2004, 99 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (6 years 6 months 3 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 3213 times:

I'm sorry, this is a safety of flight issue, plain and simple. In the event of an accident, a person of this size and stature could easily impede other passengers from safely escaping the aircraft. I for one would not accept this risk as a passenger, crew member, or airline management. The liability in court could be enormous. I always sit at a window seat, and fortunately this has never happened to me, because if the crew would not do something about it, I would get off the plane.

People of this woman's size should be required by law, for safety reasons, to be limited to window seats so that they cannot block others in should something require the immediate and expeditious evacuation of the aircraft. I personally would like to require them to purchase two seats as I agree with most of the comments on this board, however, I'm not sure that would pass legal muster. Additionally, I doubt that some of these large people could fit through the overwing escape hatches, and I think that would be grounds for keeping them off the plane entirely. In a fire, passengers will only have a few minutes to get out, possibly as few as two minutes to evacuate 150 people, and one obese person could lead to the death of many others. An incident like that could put an airline out of business due to law suit liability.

I don't care what the ADA says, this is a safety issue, and safety must trump access in conflicting cases such as these.



707, 717, 727, 732/3/4/5/6/7/8/9, 752, 762/3/4, 744, 772, MD-80/2/3/8, DC-9, F-100, A319/20/21, A333, DC-10, MD-11, ARJ,
User currently offlineFsnuffer From United States of America, joined Jun 2007, 250 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (6 years 6 months 3 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 3126 times:

I was on a flight three years ago, JFK-SFO, and the same thing happened except the skinny person whipped out a camera and took a picture. She got a ton of guff for doing that but I wonder what her compensation from the airline was

User currently offlineGreasemonkey From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 67 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (6 years 6 months 3 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 2691 times:



Quoting Jaxs170 (Reply 22):
I don't care what the ADA says, this is a safety issue, and safety must trump access in conflicting cases such as these.

That is the beauty of the FAR's. The ADA has no claws when it comes to aviation. The problem is that most airlines don't have the minerals to enforce the safety guidelines.



It's usually a good idea to know what all the buttons do...before you push them.
25 GayStudPilot : I'm all for taking pictures. Pull out your camera, use your cell phone, etc. Take a picture and send it to everyone in the c-suite at the airline. If
26 Halophila : Quite a few times I have been seated next to an XL person who has been seated before me, and has the armrest up. The FIRST thing I do is to put it dow
27 Post contains images TCT : LMAO, you are too funny, and completely right. I couldn't imagine have to be sitting like this , and if I ever was put in that type of position I wou
28 Sandyb123 : Do airline manufacturers have to include obese people in their evacuation trials?
29 Xtoler : I don't remember seeing that in any of our FAR's but maybe within Australia's regs. I was just on Frontier last weekend from DEN to ATL and both trip
30 TCT : I'm pretty sure they don't, I remember watching the 380 evacuation video and clearly I did not see an obese person, to make it more realistic they do
31 Jasp25 : I happened to be on the same case of that lady that complained about her seat. On my UA flight from PIT to ORD two months ago, the guy in the middle s
Top Of Page
Forum Index

This topic is archived and can not be replied to any more.

Printer friendly format

Similar topics:More similar topics...
My Southwest Seat Assignment posted Thu Dec 20 2007 18:22:08 by ZRB2
Investigation: Where's The Safest Seat On A Plane? posted Wed Jul 18 2007 19:22:08 by Gothamspotter
Airline Seat Numbers At 'record High' posted Thu Jul 12 2007 23:29:12 by Dsa
Questions About Airline Seat Availability posted Sun Jul 1 2007 17:31:52 by FranxSIN
Where Do Airline Pilots Come From? posted Mon Apr 9 2007 01:09:16 by AirlineEcon
Airline Seat Availability posted Sat Sep 16 2006 12:46:28 by SriLankan
Trapped In A Lufthansa Airline Seat posted Sat Aug 12 2006 19:38:35 by JHSfan
New Airline Seat Map Tool posted Tue Apr 11 2006 19:34:26 by BoomBoom
What If I Leave My Airline After 11 Years? posted Tue Aug 9 2005 21:43:09 by Wobbles
Where's My Headset? posted Sat Jun 25 2005 18:02:51 by AceMcCool99