Cubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 21245 posts, RR: 19 Posted (5 years 3 months 2 weeks 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 9102 times:
I'm looking for the largest (domestic) city not served by each of the US legacies. More accurately, I'm looking for two lists: the largest cities not served by mainline and the largest cities not served at all (by mainline or by Express/Connection/etc.). I'm sure there are those out there who know airline route maps far better than I do who can help me.
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
Flyinryan99 From United States of America, joined Feb 2001, 1919 posts, RR: 11 Reply 1, posted (5 years 3 months 2 weeks 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 8973 times:
Toledo/Northwest Ohio isn't served by United or Express. Detroit doesn't count...
Bobnwa From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 5983 posts, RR: 9 Reply 2, posted (5 years 3 months 2 weeks 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 8909 times:
KROC From United States of America, joined May 2000, 19737 posts, RR: 76 Reply 4, posted (5 years 3 months 2 weeks 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 8856 times:
Quoting MD11junkie (Reply 3): Canada was not a part of the United States last time I checked.
There is a Vancouver Washington....
"Never tell anybody outside the family what you're thinking again"
CitrusCritter From Palau, joined May 2007, 1072 posts, RR: 3 Reply 5, posted (5 years 3 months 2 weeks 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 8842 times:
I'll toss out the ones I can think of, and we'll see if anyone can come up with a better one. This list is for no-service at all.
AVL - Not served by AA and UA; MSA pop. ~400,000
CSG - Not served by AA, CO, US, UA, NW; MSA pop. ~275,000
LAL - Not served by any airline; MSA pop. ~560,000
MGM - Not served by AA, UA; MSA pop. ~470,000
MLB - Not served by AA, CO, US, UA, NW; MSA pop. ~535,000
OCF - Not served by any airline; MSA pop. ~315,000
Flyingcat From United States of America, joined May 2007, 510 posts, RR: 0 Reply 6, posted (5 years 3 months 2 weeks 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 8791 times:
Rookinla From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 305 posts, RR: 2 Reply 8, posted (5 years 3 months 2 weeks 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 8748 times:
Quoting CitrusCritter (Reply 5): OCL - Not served by any airline; MSA pop. ~315,000
Just for the sake of clarity I think you mean OCF-Ocala, FL. I've actually thought a lot about the topic and I can't think of any MSAs larger than LAL and OCF that have zero air service. LAL has the unfortunate predicament of being right smack in the middle of the Orlando-Tampa corridor. Having said that I do think that service might work here. OCF does not have the same issue. The big issue there is the Airport Manager with no interest in pursuing air service. He even posted a paragraph on the airport's website stating that it is unlikely that commercial air service will return to OCF. He makes every excuse in the book including a runway that is "too short". Funny...that didn't seem to stop the AC A320 and G4 MD80 that were sitting on the tarmac together last week. They also see chartered ERJ135/145, MD80 and cargo B727 and Travolta's B707 on a regular basis. Pretty positive for a MSA of 315K and a cachement area of over 530K...don't you think?
PSU.DTW.SCE From United States of America, joined Jan 2002, 6875 posts, RR: 29 Reply 9, posted (5 years 3 months 2 weeks 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 8722 times:
i'll rattle off a few off the top of my head for Northwest
TCT From United States of America, joined Jan 2008, 205 posts, RR: 0 Reply 11, posted (5 years 3 months 2 weeks 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 8676 times:
Long Beach,CA dosen't get served by CO,NW,AA or United, correct me if i'm wrong.
FATFlyer From United States of America, joined May 2001, 5668 posts, RR: 17 Reply 13, posted (5 years 3 months 2 weeks 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 8642 times:
We are probably one of the largest in many of these categories.
Fresno MSA population: 917,000
NO:
CO mainline or express
DL mainline
NW mainline or express
UA mainline
"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness." - Mark Twain
Cubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 21245 posts, RR: 19 Reply 14, posted (5 years 3 months 2 weeks 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 8480 times:
B757capt From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 1236 posts, RR: 0 Reply 15, posted (5 years 3 months 2 weeks 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 8474 times:
FATFlyer From United States of America, joined May 2001, 5668 posts, RR: 17 Reply 16, posted (5 years 3 months 2 weeks 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 8361 times:
Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 14): You guys are slightly larger than BFL
More than slightly bigger. Bakersfield MSA is 801,600 people
Cubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 21245 posts, RR: 19 Reply 17, posted (5 years 3 months 2 weeks 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 8264 times:
All right... let's consolidate everything we have into one list (I'm rounding populations and, obviously, there may be errors. Please correct them)
Junction From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 766 posts, RR: 0 Reply 18, posted (5 years 3 months 2 weeks 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 8263 times:
This is kind of funny, because NW actually started a virtual RNO mini-hub back when Reno Air dared to start service to MSP years ago. Didn't realize they were gone completely now, but NW once flew to nearly every city from RNO that Reno Air did.
MI5Flyer From United States of America, joined Jan 2008, 65 posts, RR: 0 Reply 19, posted (5 years 3 months 2 weeks 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 8177 times:
What type of service would you propose for OCF? The runway is not that long (@7000 ft.) but that's not the big problem. The fact is that it sits a 1 hour interstate drive from both MCO and TPA. GNV has air service to the north less than 40 miles away. There are no useful terminal facilities and the MSA has most likely been inflated by the Villages community which lies even closer to MCO and provides daily bus service there for residents.
The days of airlines flying to every town that has a long enough runway are over. Research shows that people will drive hours to save $10 and that has killed air service at a lot of airports. MLB has a large catchment area, nice terminal and they can barely keep DL/ASA. Unfortuantely, most of the population has a slightly longer but easier drive down the 528 to MCO where they can fly to hundreds of destinations nonstop - for cheap. The only hope may be something like Skybus but unlike SGJ or PGD, there is very little attraction to OCF like the beaches of JAX and SW Florida.
Cubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 21245 posts, RR: 19 Reply 20, posted (5 years 3 months 2 weeks 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 8137 times:
Quoting MI5Flyer (Reply 19): Research shows that people will drive hours to save $10 and that has killed air service at a lot of airports.
I'd love to see that research. At 30 miles per gallon, $3 gas, and a 120 mile drive, that's $12 of gas...
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
PavlovsDog From Norway, joined Sep 2005, 655 posts, RR: 0 Reply 21, posted (5 years 3 months 2 weeks 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 8091 times:
The Trenton MSA has a population of 368,000 and as far as I know isn't served by a legacy. York, PA has a MSA population of 517,000 and don't even have a commercial airport.
Cubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 21245 posts, RR: 19 Reply 23, posted (5 years 3 months 2 weeks 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 8060 times:
Quoting PavlovsDog (Reply 21): The Trenton MSA has a population of 368,000 and as far as I know isn't served by a legacy. York, PA has a MSA population of 517,000 and don't even have a commercial airport.
When I started doing this, I thought for sure that some of the MSAs that were located within fairly densely-populated areas, like TTN, would come up, but that's surprisingly not the case for many carriers.
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
MI5Flyer From United States of America, joined Jan 2008, 65 posts, RR: 0 Reply 24, posted (5 years 3 months 2 weeks 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 7948 times:
Factor in $2 for the convenience of using an airport with choices. IMHO I wouldn't fly a LCC for the same money (or a $10 savings) as a full service legacy carrier on the same route. Nevertheless, people do it all the time.....because it's just a seat to them and they don't know the difference.
25 MtnWest1979: I'll say SCK-Stockton,CA. Not served by ANY mainline, express, conn of any sort at this time. Has to be naround 300,000 people.
26 USAirALB: ALB is not served by mainline DL, AA, CO
27 PanAm330: DFW-BUF was due to yields, according to some on here. DFW-PVD would certainly have been downgraded to a CR7 when PVD lost AA mainline, but it lacks t
28 RW717: It's probably closer to 400,000, but within a 70 mile radius is about 6 million people and yet they have no air service. Although SMF is only 50 mile
29 Buzz100ca: Stockton has airports with express and mainline with 50 miles (MOD, SMF, OAK, SJC....). Nothing like the isolation of Fresno and Bakersfield. The Sto
30 Nucsh: AVL gets Delta Connection (Chautauqua and ASA) and US Airways Express (Piedmont, Air Wisc, and PSA)
31 KYNG2KPBI: Youngstown has no service what so ever. Well I shouldn't say that. We do have Allegiant Air. I believe Youngstown is a big enough city to have some ai
32 DeltAirlines: As well as CO Express to IAH/EWR and NW Airlink to MSP/DTW.
33 FATFlyer: Actually 2 different MSA in the census bureau estimates. Stockton is in the Stockton-Lodi MSA which consists of San Joaquin County. Population is 673
34 MCOflyer: MLB only needs DL and DL connection. Sure an LCC would be nice, but in the end if one did, it would FL or B6. MCO
35 Buzz100ca: Got me there. But still we're talking about two neighboring counties and county seats less than 30 miles apart.
36 MI5Flyer: And along those lines - OCF needs no service.
37 HPAEAA: add CLE to that list.... no AA mainline....
38 SLCUT2777: SLC_YVR was mainline DL until last September 1x daily. Could return to that hopefully sometime in the summer. The 738 and MD-90 were almost always 80
39 Bok269: HPN is served by all of the legacies as Express/Connection/Airlink. Whether we are grouped with NYC is up for debate. SWF is only served by DL connect
40 Breaker1011: In the mid-90's AA flew DFW-BFL with S80's twice a day.
41 Spark: Some people have mentioned cities like Oakland (No NW or US), or Stockton. OAK shouldn't really be mentioned in the discussion at all, since it is par
42 Dragon6172: I would say that ORF and PHF have plenty of service, but UAL I believe is the only legacy that has no mainline service here. With the Norfolk, Virgini
43 N917me: ILG (Wilmington DE) has no mainline or express service. That will change in May when SkyBus starts service. DL connection tried service last year, ver
44 Beertrucker: There is a LCC in MLB. USA3000 now serves BWI from MLB. I would really like to see someone else come to MLB that had a better chance to connect to ot
45 EXAAUADL: I dont think they ever actually started it did they? It was like in 1993 and I thought Clinton Admin threatened NW if they tried to put QQ out of bus
46 KELPkid: For some reason, neither F9 nor UA see it fit to service ELP with mainline equipment, and they throw plenty of Barbie jets at the route (at least 6 da
47 Manfredj: How about New Haven, CT. I think it's only express sevice, and limited at that.
48 Cubsrule: Of course, parking is generally more expensive at these larger airports as well... we can add a lot of factors if we like. 900,000 people (smaller th
49 IADCA: I think the mainline should be AUS, at about 1.5 million in the MSA. Airlink to MSP, DTW, MEM, and an IND link coming soon, but no mainline.
50 SkyexRamper: MKE hasn't had mainline UAL for a long time. MKE doesn't get CO mainline. Though I think they could by reducing their express freqs and replacing a fe
51 LoneStarMike: Actually, 736,000 on the U.S. side,but El Paso is part of the Greater El Paso - Ciudad Juarez Metropolitan Area population 2,380,785. Northwest doesn
52 Junction: I thought they started at least some of it before they pulled back, but maybe not. I do remember at least seeing all the NW RNO-SEA, RNO-PDX, RNO-LAX
53 PHLBOS: Worcester, MA (ORH) hasn't had legacy carrier service for several years. G4 came in for a little while but later pulled out. Presently, ORH has no sch
54 EXAAUADL: You maybe right, if NW did fly it, they didnt for long
55 Cubsrule: I've been informed that STL has no CO mainline... I live here and missed that. Yup... At 1.5 million, that's good for a place on the list. FWIW, MKE a
56 KELPkid: They tried, but I think word quickly spread that a 4 hour CRJ-200 ride to MSP isn't comfortable. Besides, you could do AA ELP-ORD-MSP on mainline equ
57 Cubsrule: That was NW's longest CR2 route while it was running, wasn't it?
58 KELPkid: I think it was close to, if not the, longest CR2 route anywhere
59 N1120A: LGB doesn't, and it is a very large city, but it is served by several other airports.
60 FlyASAGuy2005: "Full service legacy carrier"? Is there such a thing US domestic? I remember the "what's the longest's RJ route" thread and I think this was near or
61 Rockinflyer: NW could easily fill up a 319 from RNO/BUR/OAK/LGB to MSP/DTW and have the routes all to themselves. I don't know if these airports are high on their
62 Cubsrule: I think the E75s could open up at least a handful of new routes west of the Rockies to NW... perhaps all those on your list save LGB. We're also alre
63 Flyboy1108: I'm curious where you found that population number...I did some research and the highest number I could come up with was 42,192 in 1990. Since then t
64 KELPkid: However, with Vancouver, Washington being only across your choice of two bridges and the Columbia river from Portland, Oregon, I doubt that VUO will
65 MCOflyer: It was supposed to happen but it did not for some reason. I am curious as why more airlines haven't decided to try MLB. Hunter
66 OORamper: Especially with our 730pm MCI flight being all the people from the YVR flight one day. Well I think it was 43 pax and 86 bags off vancouver. Gotta lo
67 Buddys747: Why would you need that when you have the CO bus shuttle to EWR?
68 HALFA: Another city to add to your list is Hilo, (ITO) Hawaii, our second largest city here in the state of Hawaii. It is not served by any legacy carrier an
69 Rookinla: I think that Hilo is a beautiful city and I absolutely love the Big Island. But consider that the population of 171,191 is for the entire island. Add
70 MI5Flyer: Airlines have tried MLB. It has been served by the likes of AA, CO, US and I believe even Spirit was in there for awhile. It's always dried up becaus
71 Greenair727: Its embarrassing, but AA no longer serves CLE, which is one of the largest markets in the country. Even to DFW and MIA.
72 PavlovsDog: I looked at my source and see that the figure I gave was for the CSA which also includes Gettysburg/Adams County. You are correct that the MSA popula
73 FlyASAGuy2005: That's the thing that I constantly hear people say about a lot of markets that are now served by "express/connection" carriers. These airlines no lon
74 A330323X: Last I checked, US flies the 99-seat EMB-190, which I would consider to be in the 100-seat range.
75 FlyPNS1: Using census bureau numbers, the PVD metro area has 1.6 million people. Since DL no longer sends mainline to PVD, I would say PVD wins for lack of DL
76 Cubsrule: 800,000 people, almost right on the nose, and with no AA at all, it narrowly displaces BFL. Only 270,000 people, though. I think we have a winner. Ti
77 PHLBOS: IIRC, at one time, US did fly PHL-ACY using Allegheny Dash-8s.
78 Lat41: According to 2006 SMSA (metro area) PVD is the nation's 35th largest @ 2.1M also N.E.'s second largest core city. In many ways legacys protect their
79 TSS: NW only recently stopped serving RNO, like maybe in the last year or so. I believe their stated reason was low load factors, but I have no links to c
80 UPSMD11: At SDF we have no CO mainline, UA mainline or US Mainline. The metro area of Louisville and southern Indiana is over 1,000,000. We do get mainline jet
81 Cubsrule: That's good for a spot on the list... AA Mainline: PIT (2.3 million) Eagle/Connection: ABE (800,000) CO Mainline: STL (2.8 million) Connection: FAT (
82 Dragon6172: Hampton Roads has an MSA of 1.7 million, and neither ORF or PHF has mainline UA service.
83 DeltAirlines: Surprised CVG has not been mentioned. MSA of 2.1 million, mainline from DL and UA only. That would make it the largest non-mainline city for NW and US
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