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Largest Cities NOT Served By Legacies  
User currently offlineCubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 23148 posts, RR: 20
Posted (6 years 8 months 3 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 10113 times:

I'm looking for the largest (domestic) city not served by each of the US legacies. More accurately, I'm looking for two lists: the largest cities not served by mainline and the largest cities not served at all (by mainline or by Express/Connection/etc.). I'm sure there are those out there who know airline route maps far better than I do who can help me.


I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
84 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineFlyinryan99 From United States of America, joined Feb 2001, 2008 posts, RR: 13
Reply 1, posted (6 years 8 months 3 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 9984 times:

Toledo/Northwest Ohio isn't served by United or Express. Detroit doesn't count...

User currently offlineBobnwa From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 6493 posts, RR: 9
Reply 2, posted (6 years 8 months 3 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 9920 times:

How about Delta not serving Vancouver

User currently offlineMD11junkie From Argentina, joined May 2005, 3148 posts, RR: 57
Reply 3, posted (6 years 8 months 3 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 9906 times:



Quoting Bobnwa (Reply 2):
How about Delta not serving Vancouver

Canada was not a part of the United States last time I checked.



There is no such thing as Boeing vs Airbus as the queen of the skies has three engines, winglets and the sweetest nose!
User currently offlineKROC From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (6 years 8 months 3 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 9867 times:



Quoting MD11junkie (Reply 3):
Canada was not a part of the United States last time I checked.

There is a Vancouver Washington....


User currently offlineCitrusCritter From Pitcairn Islands, joined May 2007, 1110 posts, RR: 3
Reply 5, posted (6 years 8 months 3 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 9853 times:

I'll toss out the ones I can think of, and we'll see if anyone can come up with a better one. This list is for no-service at all.

AVL - Not served by AA and UA; MSA pop. ~400,000
CSG - Not served by AA, CO, US, UA, NW; MSA pop. ~275,000
LAL - Not served by any airline; MSA pop. ~560,000
MGM - Not served by AA, UA; MSA pop. ~470,000
MLB - Not served by AA, CO, US, UA, NW; MSA pop. ~535,000
OCF - Not served by any airline; MSA pop. ~315,000

[Edited 2008-02-05 09:46:19]


TLH
User currently offlineFlyingcat From United States of America, joined May 2007, 543 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (6 years 8 months 3 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 9802 times:



Quoting Bobnwa (Reply 2):

Yes they do. Daily express service from SLC.

Day of week seasonal service from ATL.


User currently offlineEXAAUADL From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (6 years 8 months 3 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 9758 times:

What is the MSA of RFD?

Any city close to a major airport, say 100 miles, will be lacking for air service.....ILG, TTN,


Any MSA's over 1m not served by one of the legacies? Does AA serve MHT?


User currently offlineRookinla From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 307 posts, RR: 2
Reply 8, posted (6 years 8 months 3 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 9759 times:



Quoting CitrusCritter (Reply 5):
OCL - Not served by any airline; MSA pop. ~315,000

Just for the sake of clarity I think you mean OCF-Ocala, FL. I've actually thought a lot about the topic and I can't think of any MSAs larger than LAL and OCF that have zero air service. LAL has the unfortunate predicament of being right smack in the middle of the Orlando-Tampa corridor. Having said that I do think that service might work here. OCF does not have the same issue. The big issue there is the Airport Manager with no interest in pursuing air service. He even posted a paragraph on the airport's website stating that it is unlikely that commercial air service will return to OCF. He makes every excuse in the book including a runway that is "too short". Funny...that didn't seem to stop the AC A320 and G4 MD80 that were sitting on the tarmac together last week. They also see chartered ERJ135/145, MD80 and cargo B727 and Travolta's B707 on a regular basis. Pretty positive for a MSA of 315K and a cachement area of over 530K...don't you think?


User currently offlinePSU.DTW.SCE From United States of America, joined Jan 2002, 7659 posts, RR: 27
Reply 9, posted (6 years 8 months 3 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 9733 times:

i'll rattle off a few off the top of my head for Northwest

No mainline / express presence:
NW - RNO, BUR, ELP, DAB, FAT, OAK, LGB


User currently offlineCitrusCritter From Pitcairn Islands, joined May 2007, 1110 posts, RR: 3
Reply 10, posted (6 years 8 months 3 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 9706 times:



Quoting Rookinla (Reply 8):
Just for the sake of clarity I think you mean OCF-Ocala, FL.

Indeed, I'll fix that.



TLH
User currently offlineTCT From United States of America, joined Jan 2008, 205 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (6 years 8 months 3 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 9687 times:

Long Beach,CA dosen't get served by CO,NW,AA or United, correct me if i'm wrong.

User currently offlineMD11junkie From Argentina, joined May 2005, 3148 posts, RR: 57
Reply 12, posted (6 years 8 months 3 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 9686 times:



Quoting KROC (Reply 4):

There is a Vancouver Washington....

 duck  then.

Apologies for my mistake.  flamed 



There is no such thing as Boeing vs Airbus as the queen of the skies has three engines, winglets and the sweetest nose!
User currently offlineFATFlyer From United States of America, joined May 2001, 5821 posts, RR: 28
Reply 13, posted (6 years 8 months 3 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 9653 times:

We are probably one of the largest in many of these categories.

Fresno MSA population: 917,000

NO:

CO mainline or express
DL mainline
NW mainline or express
UA mainline



"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness." - Mark Twain
User currently offlineCubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 23148 posts, RR: 20
Reply 14, posted (6 years 8 months 3 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 9491 times:



Quoting EXAAUADL (Reply 7):
Does AA serve MHT?

No. The MSA is about 400,000.

Quoting FATFlyer (Reply 13):
We are probably one of the largest in many of these categories.

You guys are slightly larger than BFL... does anyone know who flies to BFL? I feel like they don't have much service, but I'm not a Californian.



I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
User currently offlineB757capt From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 1392 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (6 years 8 months 3 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 9485 times:



Quoting EXAAUADL (Reply 7):
What is the MSA of RFD?

UAX flies to RFD, at least for now.



The views written by this user are in no manner the views of my employer and should not be thought as such.
User currently offlineFATFlyer From United States of America, joined May 2001, 5821 posts, RR: 28
Reply 16, posted (6 years 8 months 3 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 9372 times:



Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 14):
You guys are slightly larger than BFL

More than slightly bigger. Bakersfield MSA is 801,600 people

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 14):
does anyone know who flies to BFL?

They have flights on UAExpress, USAirExpress, DLConn, XJet and MX.

So Bakersfield has no:

AA mainline or Eagle
CO mainline or express
DL mainline
NW mainline or express
UA mainline
US mainline



"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness." - Mark Twain
User currently offlineCubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 23148 posts, RR: 20
Reply 17, posted (6 years 8 months 3 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 9275 times:

All right... let's consolidate everything we have into one list (I'm rounding populations and, obviously, there may be errors. Please correct them)

AA

Mainline: PIT (2.3 million)
Eagle/Connection: BFL (800,000)

CO

Mainline: CLT (1.6 million)
Connection: FAT (900,000)

DL

Mainline: FAT (900,000)
Connection: LAL (600,000)

NW

Mainline: FAT (Yet again)
Airlink: Also FAT

UA

Mainline: Our favorite (FAT)
Express: BTR (800,000)

US

Mainline: BFL
Express: BTR

Again, feel free to correct errors.



I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
User currently offlineJunction From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 769 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (6 years 8 months 3 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 9274 times:



Quoting PSU.DTW.SCE (Reply 9):
No mainline / express presence:
NW - RNO

This is kind of funny, because NW actually started a virtual RNO mini-hub back when Reno Air dared to start service to MSP years ago. Didn't realize they were gone completely now, but NW once flew to nearly every city from RNO that Reno Air did.


User currently offlineMI5Flyer From United States of America, joined Jan 2008, 79 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (6 years 8 months 3 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 9188 times:



Quoting Rookinla (Reply 8):

What type of service would you propose for OCF? The runway is not that long (@7000 ft.) but that's not the big problem. The fact is that it sits a 1 hour interstate drive from both MCO and TPA. GNV has air service to the north less than 40 miles away. There are no useful terminal facilities and the MSA has most likely been inflated by the Villages community which lies even closer to MCO and provides daily bus service there for residents.

The days of airlines flying to every town that has a long enough runway are over. Research shows that people will drive hours to save $10 and that has killed air service at a lot of airports. MLB has a large catchment area, nice terminal and they can barely keep DL/ASA. Unfortuantely, most of the population has a slightly longer but easier drive down the 528 to MCO where they can fly to hundreds of destinations nonstop - for cheap. The only hope may be something like Skybus but unlike SGJ or PGD, there is very little attraction to OCF like the beaches of JAX and SW Florida.


User currently offlineCubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 23148 posts, RR: 20
Reply 20, posted (6 years 8 months 3 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 9148 times:



Quoting MI5Flyer (Reply 19):
Research shows that people will drive hours to save $10 and that has killed air service at a lot of airports.

I'd love to see that research. At 30 miles per gallon, $3 gas, and a 120 mile drive, that's $12 of gas...



I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
User currently offlinePavlovsDog From Norway, joined Sep 2005, 658 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (6 years 8 months 3 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 9102 times:

The Trenton MSA has a population of 368,000 and as far as I know isn't served by a legacy. York, PA has a MSA population of 517,000 and don't even have a commercial airport.

User currently offlineLAXdude1023 From India, joined Sep 2006, 7688 posts, RR: 25
Reply 22, posted (6 years 8 months 3 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 9073 times:

AA/AE should start DFW-BFL. Thats a large market with no service.

I also wonder why DFW-BUF and DFW-PVD failed.



Stewed...Lewd...Crude...Irreverent...Belligerent
User currently offlineCubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 23148 posts, RR: 20
Reply 23, posted (6 years 8 months 3 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 9071 times:



Quoting PavlovsDog (Reply 21):
The Trenton MSA has a population of 368,000 and as far as I know isn't served by a legacy. York, PA has a MSA population of 517,000 and don't even have a commercial airport.

When I started doing this, I thought for sure that some of the MSAs that were located within fairly densely-populated areas, like TTN, would come up, but that's surprisingly not the case for many carriers.



I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
User currently offlineMI5Flyer From United States of America, joined Jan 2008, 79 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (6 years 8 months 3 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 8959 times:



Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 20):

Factor in $2 for the convenience of using an airport with choices. IMHO I wouldn't fly a LCC for the same money (or a $10 savings) as a full service legacy carrier on the same route. Nevertheless, people do it all the time.....because it's just a seat to them and they don't know the difference.


25 MtnWest1979 : I'll say SCK-Stockton,CA. Not served by ANY mainline, express, conn of any sort at this time. Has to be naround 300,000 people.
26 USAirALB : ALB is not served by mainline DL, AA, CO
27 PanAm330 : DFW-BUF was due to yields, according to some on here. DFW-PVD would certainly have been downgraded to a CR7 when PVD lost AA mainline, but it lacks t
28 RW717 : It's probably closer to 400,000, but within a 70 mile radius is about 6 million people and yet they have no air service. Although SMF is only 50 mile
29 Buzz100ca : Stockton has airports with express and mainline with 50 miles (MOD, SMF, OAK, SJC....). Nothing like the isolation of Fresno and Bakersfield. The Sto
30 Nucsh : AVL gets Delta Connection (Chautauqua and ASA) and US Airways Express (Piedmont, Air Wisc, and PSA)
31 KYNG2KPBI : Youngstown has no service what so ever. Well I shouldn't say that. We do have Allegiant Air. I believe Youngstown is a big enough city to have some ai
32 DeltAirlines : As well as CO Express to IAH/EWR and NW Airlink to MSP/DTW.
33 Post contains links FATFlyer : Actually 2 different MSA in the census bureau estimates. Stockton is in the Stockton-Lodi MSA which consists of San Joaquin County. Population is 673
34 MCOflyer : MLB only needs DL and DL connection. Sure an LCC would be nice, but in the end if one did, it would FL or B6. MCO
35 Buzz100ca : Got me there. But still we're talking about two neighboring counties and county seats less than 30 miles apart.
36 MI5Flyer : And along those lines - OCF needs no service.
37 HPAEAA : add CLE to that list.... no AA mainline....
38 SLCUT2777 : SLC_YVR was mainline DL until last September 1x daily. Could return to that hopefully sometime in the summer. The 738 and MD-90 were almost always 80
39 Bok269 : HPN is served by all of the legacies as Express/Connection/Airlink. Whether we are grouped with NYC is up for debate. SWF is only served by DL connect
40 Breaker1011 : In the mid-90's AA flew DFW-BFL with S80's twice a day.
41 Spark : Some people have mentioned cities like Oakland (No NW or US), or Stockton. OAK shouldn't really be mentioned in the discussion at all, since it is par
42 Dragon6172 : I would say that ORF and PHF have plenty of service, but UAL I believe is the only legacy that has no mainline service here. With the Norfolk, Virgini
43 N917me : ILG (Wilmington DE) has no mainline or express service. That will change in May when SkyBus starts service. DL connection tried service last year, ver
44 Beertrucker : There is a LCC in MLB. USA3000 now serves BWI from MLB. I would really like to see someone else come to MLB that had a better chance to connect to ot
45 EXAAUADL : I dont think they ever actually started it did they? It was like in 1993 and I thought Clinton Admin threatened NW if they tried to put QQ out of bus
46 KELPkid : For some reason, neither F9 nor UA see it fit to service ELP with mainline equipment, and they throw plenty of Barbie jets at the route (at least 6 da
47 Manfredj : How about New Haven, CT. I think it's only express sevice, and limited at that.
48 Cubsrule : Of course, parking is generally more expensive at these larger airports as well... we can add a lot of factors if we like. 900,000 people (smaller th
49 IADCA : I think the mainline should be AUS, at about 1.5 million in the MSA. Airlink to MSP, DTW, MEM, and an IND link coming soon, but no mainline.
50 SkyexRamper : MKE hasn't had mainline UAL for a long time. MKE doesn't get CO mainline. Though I think they could by reducing their express freqs and replacing a fe
51 LoneStarMike : Actually, 736,000 on the U.S. side,but El Paso is part of the Greater El Paso - Ciudad Juarez Metropolitan Area population 2,380,785. Northwest doesn
52 Junction : I thought they started at least some of it before they pulled back, but maybe not. I do remember at least seeing all the NW RNO-SEA, RNO-PDX, RNO-LAX
53 PHLBOS : Worcester, MA (ORH) hasn't had legacy carrier service for several years. G4 came in for a little while but later pulled out. Presently, ORH has no sch
54 EXAAUADL : You maybe right, if NW did fly it, they didnt for long
55 Cubsrule : I've been informed that STL has no CO mainline... I live here and missed that. Yup... At 1.5 million, that's good for a place on the list. FWIW, MKE a
56 KELPkid : They tried, but I think word quickly spread that a 4 hour CRJ-200 ride to MSP isn't comfortable. Besides, you could do AA ELP-ORD-MSP on mainline equ
57 Cubsrule : That was NW's longest CR2 route while it was running, wasn't it?
58 Post contains images KELPkid : I think it was close to, if not the, longest CR2 route anywhere
59 N1120A : LGB doesn't, and it is a very large city, but it is served by several other airports.
60 FlyASAGuy2005 : "Full service legacy carrier"? Is there such a thing US domestic? I remember the "what's the longest's RJ route" thread and I think this was near or
61 Rockinflyer : NW could easily fill up a 319 from RNO/BUR/OAK/LGB to MSP/DTW and have the routes all to themselves. I don't know if these airports are high on their
62 Cubsrule : I think the E75s could open up at least a handful of new routes west of the Rockies to NW... perhaps all those on your list save LGB. We're also alre
63 Post contains links Flyboy1108 : I'm curious where you found that population number...I did some research and the highest number I could come up with was 42,192 in 1990. Since then t
64 Post contains images KELPkid : However, with Vancouver, Washington being only across your choice of two bridges and the Columbia river from Portland, Oregon, I doubt that VUO will
65 MCOflyer : It was supposed to happen but it did not for some reason. I am curious as why more airlines haven't decided to try MLB. Hunter
66 OORamper : Especially with our 730pm MCI flight being all the people from the YVR flight one day. Well I think it was 43 pax and 86 bags off vancouver. Gotta lo
67 Post contains images Buddys747 : Why would you need that when you have the CO bus shuttle to EWR?
68 HALFA : Another city to add to your list is Hilo, (ITO) Hawaii, our second largest city here in the state of Hawaii. It is not served by any legacy carrier an
69 Rookinla : I think that Hilo is a beautiful city and I absolutely love the Big Island. But consider that the population of 171,191 is for the entire island. Add
70 MI5Flyer : Airlines have tried MLB. It has been served by the likes of AA, CO, US and I believe even Spirit was in there for awhile. It's always dried up becaus
71 Greenair727 : Its embarrassing, but AA no longer serves CLE, which is one of the largest markets in the country. Even to DFW and MIA.
72 Post contains links PavlovsDog : I looked at my source and see that the figure I gave was for the CSA which also includes Gettysburg/Adams County. You are correct that the MSA popula
73 FlyASAGuy2005 : That's the thing that I constantly hear people say about a lot of markets that are now served by "express/connection" carriers. These airlines no lon
74 Post contains images A330323X : Last I checked, US flies the 99-seat EMB-190, which I would consider to be in the 100-seat range.
75 FlyPNS1 : Using census bureau numbers, the PVD metro area has 1.6 million people. Since DL no longer sends mainline to PVD, I would say PVD wins for lack of DL
76 Cubsrule : 800,000 people, almost right on the nose, and with no AA at all, it narrowly displaces BFL. Only 270,000 people, though. I think we have a winner. Ti
77 PHLBOS : IIRC, at one time, US did fly PHL-ACY using Allegheny Dash-8s.
78 Lat41 : According to 2006 SMSA (metro area) PVD is the nation's 35th largest @ 2.1M also N.E.'s second largest core city. In many ways legacys protect their
79 TSS : NW only recently stopped serving RNO, like maybe in the last year or so. I believe their stated reason was low load factors, but I have no links to c
80 UPSMD11 : At SDF we have no CO mainline, UA mainline or US Mainline. The metro area of Louisville and southern Indiana is over 1,000,000. We do get mainline jet
81 Cubsrule : That's good for a spot on the list... AA Mainline: PIT (2.3 million) Eagle/Connection: ABE (800,000) CO Mainline: STL (2.8 million) Connection: FAT (
82 Dragon6172 : Hampton Roads has an MSA of 1.7 million, and neither ORF or PHF has mainline UA service.
83 DeltAirlines : Surprised CVG has not been mentioned. MSA of 2.1 million, mainline from DL and UA only. That would make it the largest non-mainline city for NW and US
84 Cubsrule : AA Mainline: PIT (2.3 million) Eagle/Connection: ABE (800,000) CO Mainline: STL (2.8 million) Connection: FAT (900,000) DL Mainline: PVD (1.6 million)
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