Rikkus67 From Canada, joined Jun 2000, 1464 posts, RR: 2 Posted (5 years 3 months 2 weeks 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 9644 times:
As a lot of people know, Air Canada 767-233 (C-GAUN) was recently retired. This workhorse of 25 years for AC was the unwitting aircraft that ran out of fuel over Southern Manitoba (July 23rd, 1983). Through the skill of the flight crew, it was glided virtually unpowered to a decommissioned RCAF base.
With such a rich story, I find it disheartening that this aircraft was not donated to a worthy museum or collection in Canada. Rather than AC being embarassed by what happened (and with the exception of a final fly-by, a quiet retirement) I believe that this aircraft, and (just as importantly) the crew be permanently recognized.
This brings me to an obvious question. Not withstanding an area to display the aircraft, or its refurbishment to the original colourscheme... Does anyone know what the current price of a 25 year old 767-200 series aircraft would be worth?
Cessna 172; King Air 100; Twin Otter; SAAB 340; Dash 7; Dash 8-100,-200,-300,-400; CRJ-200,700,900; ERJ-170; F-28; DC 9-
777STL From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 3033 posts, RR: 3 Reply 2, posted (5 years 3 months 2 weeks 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 9576 times:
Never understood the fascination with preserving the GG. Considering it's no different than any other 762 ever built and the event happened before many people here were born.
Jlbmedia From United States of America, joined Jun 2002, 604 posts, RR: 0 Reply 5, posted (5 years 3 months 2 weeks 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 9503 times:
Quoting 777STL (Reply 2): Never understood the fascination with preserving the GG. Considering it's no different than any other 762 ever built and the event happened before many people here were born.
First of all, I was alive and well when this event happened! As far as preserving it goes, I think it is a part of aviation history. How many things have we sold during our lives, only to find out as you get older that it would have been better to have held on to it. Alas, only us old guys have had that experience. With luck, you will grow old and find this out for your self. John.
2H4 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 8950 posts, RR: 62 Reply 6, posted (5 years 3 months 2 weeks 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 9469 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW HEAD DATABASE EDITOR
Quoting Rikkus67 (Thread starter): Does anyone know what the current price of a 25 year old 767-200 series aircraft would be worth?
Platinumfoota From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 543 posts, RR: 0 Reply 7, posted (5 years 3 months 2 weeks 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 9407 times:
Lets all pitch in and get it, park it somewhere we can all fly to and see it.
GALLEYSTEW From United States of America, joined Dec 2007, 159 posts, RR: 0 Reply 8, posted (5 years 3 months 2 weeks 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 9361 times:
I have been in the industry for 22 years and I remember the GG . I am 45..........not that old. Please tell me that most of the people on here aren't youngins" ?
Skydrol From Canada, joined Oct 2003, 860 posts, RR: 11 Reply 9, posted (5 years 3 months 2 weeks 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 9269 times:
Quoting 777STL (Reply 2): Never understood the fascination with preserving the GG. Considering it's no different than any other 762 ever built and the event happened before many people here were born.
We were living nearby when it happened, and we drove to the Gimli Motorsports racetrack to see it when it was in the news, but 604 had already been moved...
Amazing luck to make it that far, just missed landing in Lake Winnipeg!
And to comment about the original post, there are three or four organizations interested in obtaining C-GAUN, so there could be a great future including preservation.
Rikkus67 From Canada, joined Jun 2000, 1464 posts, RR: 2 Reply 10, posted (5 years 3 months 2 weeks 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 9193 times:
Quoting Skydrol (Reply 9): And to comment about the original post, there are three or four organizations interested in obtaining C-GAUN, so there could be a great future including preservation.
Any idea who the organizations might be?
Cessna 172; King Air 100; Twin Otter; SAAB 340; Dash 7; Dash 8-100,-200,-300,-400; CRJ-200,700,900; ERJ-170; F-28; DC 9-
Skydrol From Canada, joined Oct 2003, 860 posts, RR: 11 Reply 11, posted (5 years 3 months 2 weeks 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 9153 times:
Quoting Rikkus67 (Reply 10): Any idea who the organizations might be?
I can't recall specifically right now, but it was in an older topic about the Gimli Glider being retired. Someone posted the Globe and Mail article where Bob Pearson was quoted stating one or two museums, a college and engine manufacturer - (P&W ?) all expressed interest in the airplane.
L1011Lover From Germany, joined Oct 2003, 971 posts, RR: 15 Reply 12, posted (5 years 3 months 2 weeks 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 8705 times:
Quoting 777STL (Reply 2): Never understood the fascination with preserving the GG. Considering it's no different than any other 762 ever built and the event happened before many people here were born.
Well I was alive when it happened... and I remember it very well... and I'm not that old... being in my early 30's!
Actually I'm quite sure that the MAJORITY of people on here were alive when it happened!!!
It sometimes schocks me how young(er) people often believe there was "no world" or nothing worth to remember and to be preserved before they were born! When actually 99,9% of world history happened then...
Nonstopnyc From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 47 posts, RR: 0 Reply 13, posted (5 years 3 months 2 weeks 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 8649 times:
How did they get it airborne again??? Did they have to renovate the runway there?
United_Fan From United States of America, joined Nov 2000, 7159 posts, RR: 8 Reply 15, posted (5 years 3 months 2 weeks 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 8459 times:
Quoting Nonstopnyc (Reply 13): How did they get it airborne again??? Did they have to renovate the runway there?
They fixed it,and it took off on another runway that was longer. With no choice,it landed on the aligned runway.
'Empathy was yesterday...Today, you're wasting my Mother-F'ing time' - Heat.
Jamesbuk From United Kingdom, joined May 2005, 3968 posts, RR: 5 Reply 16, posted (5 years 3 months 2 weeks 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 8444 times:
Quick question guys...
When a diesel car runs out of fuel, its not like petrol where you can just fill'er up again and go, the whole system has to be bled. Is this the same on jet engines? Or is it a case of filling the tanks, puttin the fuel pumps on and starting the engines?
Rgds --James--
You cant have your cake and eat it... What the hells the point in having it then!!!
What I think most people are forgetting is that your prices are quotes for airworthy aircraft. I believe the intent is to purchase the 762 for static display only, in which case the price would be a small fraction of those quoted in the sources above.
Given that AC would remove any parts worth salvaging, the cost of the airframe will likely be equal to the value of the scrap metal contained within it.
One could theoretically purchase an aesthetically complete 762 aircraft (with nothing inside the cowlings behind the fan disc for example) with all external 'bits & pieces' intact for a mere few tens of thousands.
The cost of transporting the airplane from Arizona to its display facility would likely be the largest single expense.
The nice thing about a mistake is the pleasure it gives others.
Mmedford From United States of America, joined Nov 2007, 527 posts, RR: 9 Reply 18, posted (5 years 3 months 2 weeks 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 7856 times:
Well, why not purchase the GC...fly her to her final destination. Then remove the engines and parts?
I'm sure its much cheaper to ship a crated engine, rather than an airframe.
Nonstopnyc From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 47 posts, RR: 0 Reply 19, posted (5 years 3 months 2 weeks 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 7730 times:
How on earth did it take off??? It was not a runway it landed on.. it had been turned into a race way with a barrier down the middle.
Was it a lot of work/money to prep the surface and was it long enough for a safe take off?????
Mandrake From Australia, joined Sep 2005, 21 posts, RR: 0 Reply 20, posted (5 years 3 months 2 weeks 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 7702 times:
Yes, gut the old gal then convert the interior to a museum featuring a slideshow of the whole story. It was such an unusual and thrilling event that the plane and the crew should be immortalized.
Mandrake
Everything nice has its price, and the nicer, the pricier.
Quoting Nonstopnyc (Reply 19): Was it a lot of work/money to prep the surface
No. It was a runway it landed on.
Quoting Nonstopnyc (Reply 19): was it long enough for a safe take off?????
Considering it took off safely, we may assume it was.
The Gimli aerodrome had multiple runways that handled high-performance miltary aircraft. It just happened to land on one that had obstacles on its surface. As mentioned above, the airplane was repaired, taxiied to an unobstructed runway and took off. Simple as that.
The nice thing about a mistake is the pleasure it gives others.
Je89_w From United States of America, joined Mar 2002, 2327 posts, RR: 10 Reply 22, posted (5 years 3 months 2 weeks 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 7648 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW PHOTO SCREENER
Quoting Nonstopnyc (Reply 19): How on earth did it take off??? It was not a runway it landed on.. it had been turned into a race way with a barrier down the middle.
There was a pretty good video of it taking off from that strip from another thread somewhere deep in this forum.
Threepoint From Canada, joined Oct 2005, 2091 posts, RR: 8 Reply 23, posted (5 years 3 months 2 weeks 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 7513 times:
Quoting Mandrake (Reply 20): Yes, gut the old gal then convert the interior to a museum featuring a slideshow of the whole story
The best place I can think of offhand is the Canadian Aviation Museum in Rockcliffe, ON, near Ottawa. Assuming they can screech her into that short strip, permanent display inside the main building would be ideal. Those that have visited the museum and are familiar with its layout may wonder where they could shoehorn a 767 into a place crammed with so many aircraft. Without the benefit or a measuring tape and a floorplan, I could assume that it could sit where the current aviation safety display resides (necessitating the shuffle of the Challenger). Museum regulars can help inform us if the ceiling is high enough.
The display area currently holds info on the role of TSB and aircraft accident investigation developments and highlights flight safety improvements. Can anyone think of a more suitable venue than within the fuselage of 604?
I could understand an airline's reticence if it commemorated a fatal accident, but this one ended happily and everybody walked away with lessons learned, and safety enhanced.
The nice thing about a mistake is the pleasure it gives others.
SKAirbus From Norway, joined Oct 2007, 1327 posts, RR: 2 Reply 24, posted (5 years 3 months 2 weeks 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 7431 times:
Well why not take it back to Gimli and turn it into a museum?? Repaint it in its original colour scheme and fill it with information from that day... Also maybe a little cafe in the back ... Better than breaking it up surely??
Next Flights: LHR-OSL (319), OSL-LHR (321), LHR-ARN (320), ARN-VXO (S34), VXO-BMA (ATP), ARN-LHR (763), LHR-CPH (320), C
25 SkyexRamper: It made for an ok made for tv movie but I too don't see anything special about this airplane. Why should the crew and airline be praised for a major
26 Olympus69: If people read all the messages this reply wouldn't have been necessary. (note reply numbers above.) John.
27 KELPkid: How about the big aviation museum at YWG? Seems like a fitting place to me...much easier to land her there Besides, I do believe the flight crew was
28 SEPilot: I lost all respect for "historic preservation" when our local WWII temporary housing which had been built for the machine tool industry was designate
29 LuiePL: I was 18 days old when this happened! Count me in on those who were born before it occurred. LOL I think it's an interesting piece of history, and wo
30 OTOPS: Its pretty much the father of Extended Twin OPerationS and revolutionized trans-con travel
31 SEPilot: That is because it happened to be there at the time. The A300 could have done so if it had had more range.
32 LHRBlueSkies: It's a 767. Nothing more, nothing less. Yes, the story is interesting, especially as it shows how so many failures by flight & ground crews took place
33 SKAirbus: I just wish the 767 had a much nicer interior... Maybe the soviets designed it?
34 Rikkus67: Definitely a noble idea, but one that unfortunately wouldn't generate the dollars for it's upkeep. Gimli is a very small lakefront town of around 5,0
35 Multimark: Yeah, and the Titanic was one of a series of three nearly identical ships (quite the assembly line for the time). Good thing people aren't interested
37 Da man: Not exactly. The first ship, RMS Olympic served a full useful life and was scrapped in the mid-1930s. RMS Titanic as we all know sank on her maiden v
38 Yyz717: Ditto. It was a 100% preventable near-fatal accident. Highly embarassing to AC. And who's going to pay for this? The Cdn tax payers? No thanks....we'
39 RIX: - it would be smashed and shattered to pieces that day with none survived, be it just this. With all the failures and miracles (that is, outstanding
40 SEPilot: I did not remember what happened to the Olympic; I thought it had sunk as well. Thanks for the correction.
41 Threepoint: Museums are private business ventures and raise & spend private funds to pay for private assets. They recoup these costs by charging things called 'a
42 Skydrol: Excellent points, Threepoint. You saved me and several others a lot of typing. Like just about any other accident when the root cause(s) are investiga
43 Yyz717: Most things AC-related have involved tax payer subsidization over the years. But since you seem to think a private museum would buy a used 762 and ch
44 Avt007: Museums are usually hard pressed for space and money, and both are reserved for historically significant aircraft, not currently operating airliners y
45 Threepoint: Oh dear. Not again. Stop living in the past. If you're so adamant about the taxpayer subsidization paying for "most things", please feel free to enli
46 Avt007: Quoting Threepoint (Reply 45): Damn good thing your attitude wasn't in vogue in say 1946 Putting a 767 in a museum is akin to putting an 86 Ford Tauru
47 Yyz717: So build a business case and lead the way. Methinks no one in their right mind would pay $10 to see an intact 762 that once involved in a non-fatal a
48 Viscount724: Only a Viscount which AC donated in 1969. It was deteriorating in the open air for years. Not sure if that's still the case or whether it's now insid
49 Jamincan: I don't believe they have anymore aircraft in outdoor storage since they built the new hangar.
50 Threepoint: It's now inside. The ravages of it being outside for decades have proved difficult to repair. I have my doubts it will be restored to its original co
51 Yyz717: Who's gonna pay for that? Do you have a business case? Or just more empty words? Purchase of a used 762, modifying it for long term storage, and secu
52 Threepoint: The equivalent cost of the hull scrap metal value, assuming the owner (AC or the lessor) removes the components of value. Chump change. It' wouldn't
53 Jamincan: Build a new city centred on destination casinos and hotels. It worked for Las Vegas! Museums are rarely profit-generating enterprises. In fact, I'm s
54 Bennett123: Threepoint You refer to aircraft being preserved in 1946. Regrettably it did not happen. You may know for example that there are several WW2 German ai
55 Yyz717: Exactly my point. Ultimately, any museum adding this infamous 762 as an exhibit (as ridiculous as the idea is) would turn to the government for money
56 Avt007: I've done my research by visiting last year. The main hangar is full, obviously, and the new hangar is not that big, really. It looks big, like most
57 Threepoint: Yes, thanks, I'm well aware of that. With thousands of surplus and suddenly unneeded aircraft, they fell to the torch at alarming rates. Who knew in
58 Yyz717: Land near all airports in Canada is expensive. I'm still waiting to see your business case that shows a profitable use of a 762 static exhibit at an
59 Threepoint: Sure, but the funny thing you're repeatedly ignoring is that the existing aviation museums are already built. On land. At or near airports. In Canada
60 Pnwtraveler: Despite the total lack of logic displayed but some of the above posts, I happen to know two museums are actively seeking funds from donors for preserv
61 SLCUT2777: You think about it, this plane to AC is considerably different than "The Spirit of Delta" is to DL, now being that sort of a museum piece that is bei
62 Skydrol: While I have been reading Neil's comments above with a grain of salt, I consider what retired AC captain Bob Pearson stated to the Globe and Mail aft
63 Threepoint: I disagree, in that most of the flying public have very short memories. Hundreds of those who vowed they'd never support AC during its battle and eve
64 Pnwtraveler: Hardly you employ logic . Chirping is funny - thanks.
65 Viscount724: Just for info, following photo of the Gimli Glider pilots (both retired, the captain now aged 72; I believe the first officer retired about a year ag
66 Avt007: It's disappointing to see this discussion start to slide towards personal attacks. I've tried to present a logical (Sorry, Pnwtraveler) argument as t
67 Yyz717: Good comments Avt007. I agree with you. Cheap shots from the above folks are common when a) anyone disagrees with them, or b) when anyone criticizes
68 SLCUT2777: Perhaps in the minds of a few federal NDP operatives who would love nothing more than to bring "Mapleflot" back. But you're correct about most CP die
69 YWG747: I would really like to see this aircraft placed here in Winnipeg in the Western Canadian Aviation Museum... As it is apart of the Manitoba's aviation
70 Threepoint: It seems a logical place and I'm sure we haven't heard the end of this association. Having never visited the museum, has it got the space to house a
71 YWG747: That is the problem. I don't think that they have the space.... unless the moved or built a bigger facility.
72 Pnwtraveler: With the Human Rights Museum being built in Winnipeg and IF they were to get GAUN there at the aviation museum Winnipeg could become a heightened dest
73 Multimark: If one 762 should be saved as a museum piece, the Gimli Glider is the one. Period.
74 SLCUT2777: This is something that not only requires much space, but also a great deal of logistics: http://www.deltamuseum.org/M_ExhibitsEvents_SpiritofDelta_Pr
75 Threepoint: I'm not sure if your post was intended to be positive towards, or warn against such a preservation effort. It has served to encourage more than anyth
76 SLCUT2777: It's to be positive as well as informative. I'm all for preservation of certain aircraft, and it is interesting to note the similarities in the AC an
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From Canada, joined Jun 2000, 1464 posts, 
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From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 3033 posts, 
As far as preserving it goes, I think it is a part of aviation history. How many things have we sold during our lives, only to find out as you get older that it would have been better to have held on to it. Alas, only us old guys have had that experience. 
With luck, you will grow old and find this out for your self. John.
From Germany, joined Oct 2003, 971 posts, 
From Kazakhstan, joined Sep 2006, 549 posts, 
From Australia, joined Sep 2005, 21 posts, 
From Norway, joined Oct 2007, 1327 posts, 
... Better than breaking it up surely??
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