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IB PTY-MAD Traffic Up 33% In 2007  
User currently offlineLuisca From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (6 years 10 months 2 weeks 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 3159 times:

La Prensa is reporting that IB has seen growth of over 30% on its PTY-MAD route and loads are at almost 90%. IB will evaluate the effect of KLM entering the PTY market and determine if dedicated PTY flights would be necessary in the future.

http://www.prensa.com/hoy/negocios/1258041.html

15 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineVincewy From Taiwan, joined Oct 2005, 767 posts, RR: 1
Reply 1, posted (6 years 10 months 2 weeks 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 3125 times:

I've heard it's also very hard to book MAD-GUA, perhaps both GUA and PTY should be dedicated flights, there're also many connections possible out of PTY. Now, it leaves to the question of MAD-SAL, a red eye to SAL and leave SAL by noon, coming back to MAD in the morning, IMO a viable option as all the connecting flights out of SAL in the morning (to Guatemala, Honduras, and Nicaragua), if IB can get more aircrafts.

User currently offlineYellowtail From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 6351 posts, RR: 2
Reply 2, posted (6 years 10 months 2 weeks 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 3108 times:



Quoting Vincewy (Reply 1):
I've heard it's also very hard to book MAD-GUA,

Their is an issue I believe with Guat's Runway length and altitude....maybe a MAD-GUA-SAL-MAD routing might work....or a MAD-GUA-SAP-MAD.....

Some time ago IB announced plans to serve SAP but it never materialized...



When in doubt, hold on to your altitude. No-one has ever collided with the sky.
User currently offlinePe@rson From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2001, 19259 posts, RR: 52
Reply 3, posted (6 years 10 months 2 weeks 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 3103 times:

Hardly surprising: PTY's a great place.  Big grin I look forward to returning.


"Everyone writing for the Telegraph knows that the way to grab eyeballs is with Ryanair and/or sex."
User currently offlineAA1818 From Trinidad and Tobago, joined Feb 2006, 3439 posts, RR: 4
Reply 4, posted (6 years 10 months 2 weeks 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 3027 times:



Quoting Pe@rson (Reply 3):
Hardly surprising: PTY's a great place. Big grin I look forward to returning.

Maybe it's time CM got some Long Haul a/c and began MAD, BCN, LHR, CDG etc!!

AA1818



“The moment you doubt whether you can fly, you cease for ever to be able to do it.” J.M. Barrie (Peter Pan)
User currently offlineVincewy From Taiwan, joined Oct 2005, 767 posts, RR: 1
Reply 5, posted (6 years 10 months 2 weeks 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 2891 times:



Quoting Yellowtail (Reply 2):
Their is an issue I believe with Guat's Runway length and altitude....maybe a MAD-GUA-SAL-MAD routing might work....or a MAD-GUA-SAP-MAD.....

I've been to GUA, SJO, SAP, and SAL, GUA has by far the longest runway, I've not researched the altitude of Guatemala City but I don't think it's much higher than Mexico City, if it's like Quito or La Paz I can understand but....

If it's red eye to SAL, I think it'll work better this way MAD-SAL-GUA-SAL-MAD (just like IB6400/6401) as they can't return to MAD until noon (ideally) to connect for other flights in the morning. As for SAP, not a viable option unless it's used solely for refueling out of GUA, Taca can easily connect out of GUA and SAL.

I don't know about PTY being great place, but I believe part of the success is due to the extensive network out of PTY provided by CM (even MAO).


User currently offlineLuisca From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (6 years 10 months 2 weeks 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 2838 times:



Quoting Vincewy (Reply 5):
I don't know about PTY being great place, but I believe part of the success is due to the extensive network out of PTY provided by CM (even MAO).

Iberia interlines with TA out of SJO for ongoing connections, PTY-MAD traffic is mostly O&D. Another factor to be considered is yeilds, bussines class is consistently full on PTY flights, Spain is the largest foreign investor in Panama after the US.

Quoting Vincewy (Reply 5):
I've been to GUA, SJO, SAP, and SAL, GUA has by far the longest runway, I've not researched the altitude of Guatemala City but I don't think it's much higher than Mexico City, if it's like Quito or La Paz I can understand but....

La aurora has a 5000 feet elevation and a 10000 feet runway, this is challenging even for the A346, not impossible but it could cause restrictions especially on hot days. Heck PTY at sea level has a 10000 foot runway and there are issues during hot days, that is why the airport will expand one runway to 13000 feet.


User currently offlineJuanchito From Guatemala, joined Nov 2000, 1210 posts, RR: 9
Reply 7, posted (6 years 10 months 2 weeks 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 2806 times:



Quoting Luisca (Reply 6):
La aurora has a 5000 feet elevation and a 10000 feet runway, this is challenging even for the A346, not impossible but it could cause restrictions especially on hot days. Heck PTY at sea level has a 10000 foot runway and there are issues during hot days, that is why the airport will expand one runway to 13000 feet.

But PTY is at least 35 degrees and GUA averages could be 22 degrees and IB airplane leaving at 6 to 8 pm the weathers is about 18 degrees. IB should bye 787 and dedicate flights to almost all Central American mayor city except TGU.

Juanchito



Chapin de corazon.
User currently offlineVincewy From Taiwan, joined Oct 2005, 767 posts, RR: 1
Reply 8, posted (6 years 10 months 2 weeks 4 days ago) and read 2738 times:



Quoting Luisca (Reply 6):
La aurora has a 5000 feet elevation and a 10000 feet runway, this is challenging even for the A346, not impossible but it could cause restrictions especially on hot days. Heck PTY at sea level has a 10000 foot runway and there are issues during hot days, that is why the airport will expand one runway to 13000 feet.

To extend runway at GUA? That might be a little difficult, one end is prime commercial district (Zona 9), the other end is simply cliff with shanty town hanging there.

Quoting Juanchito (Reply 7):
But PTY is at least 35 degrees and GUA averages could be 22 degrees and IB airplane leaving at 6 to 8 pm the weathers is about 18 degrees. IB should bye 787 and dedicate flights to almost all Central American mayor city except TGU.

Cities like SJO, GUA, the weather is perfect (hence a lot of Americans/Europeans retiring there), it almost never gets above 25C (if ever), by evening it's even cooler, so the weather won't be an issue.


User currently offlineSJOtoLIR From Costa Rica, joined Jul 2007, 4615 posts, RR: 4
Reply 9, posted (6 years 10 months 2 weeks 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 2705 times:

IB served in the past SAL, SAP and MGA, but since the demise of IB's hub in Miami, interline cooperation has linked them with either IB MAD-GUA-PTY-MAD, IB MAD-SJO-MAD and even other flights out of Central America such as IB MAD-MEX-MAD and IB MAD-MIA-MAD, whereas TA, AA and MX are currently feeding these flights.
IMHO, SAP, MGA and SAL deserve a better attention in the future due to the interline cooperation is supplied sometimes by TACA REGIONAL with ATR-42, taking into account restrictions on baggage.
Nonetheless, IB couldn't sustain a profitable venture with dedicated operations there: SAP, MGA and SAL.
Likewise, the highest yields in Central America are most likely concentrated into SJO, GUA and PTY in the meanwhile.




.

Quoting Vincewy (Reply 5):
I've been to GUA, SJO, SAP, and SAL, GUA has by far the longest runway, I've not researched the altitude of Guatemala City but I don't think it's much higher than Mexico City, if it's like Quito or La Paz

Both BOG and MEX sustain operations heading to MAD with IB's 340 [343/346 mix], although the length of their runways are longer than GUA.
Distances point-to-point:
GUA-MAD............4708 nm**
MEX-MAD............4903 nm**
BOG-MAD............4337 nm**
**According Great Circle Mapper. Distances have been measured merely as straight line. This information may not be accurate or current and is not valid for flight planning.




.
Some data concerning to the Central American airports that have been mentioned out:
Airport.....Length of runway [feet]........Elevation [feet]
GUA................9800..............................4952
SJO.................9882..............................3021
SAL................10 552.............................101
SAP.................9203...............................91




.
The triangular IB MAD-UIO-GYE-MAD is the solution against the altitude in UIO.
Because the altitude in LPB, other air carriers were linking Bolivia to MAD from VVI instead.
.....Airport.........Length of runway [feet]..........Elevation [feet]
BOG 13R/31L.............12 467............................8361
BOG 13L/31R.............12 467............................8361
MEX 05R/23L.............12 795............................7316
MEX 05L/23L..............12 966............................7316
......UIO......................10 286............................9228
......LPB.....................13 123...........................13 325




.

Quoting Luisca (Reply 6):
PTY-MAD traffic is mostly O&D. Another factor to be considered is yields, business class is consistently full on PTY flights

Exactly !
The premium product of IB is focused into the J class.
It will be interesting to look forward how IB will face the competition offered by the new KL AMS-PTY thrice a week, starting on March 30th.
I would assume the O&D traffic MAD-PTY is larger than AMS-PTY, being an advantage for the operations supplied by IB there.
KL AMS-PTY is likely aiming for connections once in AMS through SkyTeam system and sustained by cooperation on both CM and P5, in the other edge.




.

Quoting Vincewy (Reply 8):
it almost never gets above 25C (if ever), by evening it's even cooler, so the weather won't be an issue.



Quoting Juanchito (Reply 7):
But PTY is at least 35 degrees and GUA averages could be 22 degrees and IB airplane leaving at 6 to 8 pm the weathers is about 18 degrees

Atmospheric pressure is the key variable due to the concentration of oxygen in the air that enables the combustion of jet-fuel. The movement of hot air through cold air also modifies the pressure. These facts influence directly the thrust of the planes.
The acceleration of the aircrafts in LPB's runway is lower than any other airport placed at sea level implying a longer runway to reach the proper velocities during the take off.

Regards.



"Goin' up to the spirit in the sky"
User currently offlineSJOtoLIR From Costa Rica, joined Jul 2007, 4615 posts, RR: 4
Reply 10, posted (6 years 10 months 2 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 2547 times:

IB MAD-GUA-PTY-MAD will be upgraded temporarily from 3x weekly to 4x weekly.
New flight on Mondays.
Effective: February 18th.
Mix of 343/346 equipment.

Regards.



"Goin' up to the spirit in the sky"
User currently offlineYellowtail From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 6351 posts, RR: 2
Reply 11, posted (6 years 10 months 2 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 2486 times:



Quoting SJOtoLIR (Reply 10):
Mix of 343/346 equipment.

Wasn't it all 346 or is the extra freq the 343?



When in doubt, hold on to your altitude. No-one has ever collided with the sky.
User currently offlineUPPERDECKFAN From Spain, joined Jun 2007, 992 posts, RR: 1
Reply 12, posted (6 years 10 months 2 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 2415 times:

IB is considering dropping IAD and BOS as early as next fall, it's performing so poor that is down to a 2 or 3xweekly triangular MAD-BOS-IAD-MAD.

It has already free one A343 to compensate for the loss at UIO, then if they finally drop BOS/IAD for good they would free a 2nd A343, it might enable them to restructure their central american destinations.



744,742,741,772,773,762,732,735,738,752,727,717,DC10,DC9,M82,M87,319,320,321,343,346,L1011,CRJ2,CRJ9,E190,ATR42,DSH8,
User currently offlineSJOtoLIR From Costa Rica, joined Jul 2007, 4615 posts, RR: 4
Reply 13, posted (6 years 10 months 2 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 2348 times:



Quoting Yellowtail (Reply 11):
Wasn't it all 346 or is the extra freq the 343?

IB MAD-GUA-PTY-MAD. 343 on Mondays and Tuesdays.
IB MAD-GUA-PTY-MAD. 346 on Thursdays and Saturdays.
This service varies from 3x weekly to 4x weekly and it will be definitely back to 3x weekly on April.



"Goin' up to the spirit in the sky"
User currently offlineGatoVolador From Spain, joined Apr 2007, 435 posts, RR: 1
Reply 14, posted (6 years 10 months 2 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 2327 times:



Quoting UPPERDECKFAN (Reply 12):
IB is considering dropping IAD and BOS as early as next fall, it's performing so poor that is down to a 2 or 3xweekly triangular MAD-BOS-IAD-MAD.

Everything could happen, but the schedules show 4 direct weekly flights to IAD (which is performing worse than BOS) in november.

A reduction in capacity could be linked to the new AA-IB agreement, since they will share frequencies, so IB could operate two flights and AA two more, and the capacity would be the same at the end.


User currently offlineIBERIA747 From Spain, joined Aug 2003, 1831 posts, RR: 58
Reply 15, posted (6 years 10 months 2 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 2254 times:



Quoting UPPERDECKFAN (Reply 12):
IB is considering dropping IAD and BOS as early as next fall, it's performing so poor

Strange, as I read about two weeks ago an Iberia press release stating that the load factors on BOS and IAD routes were around 80%.



¡¡VIVA ESPAÑA!!
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