PanHAM From Germany, joined May 2005, 3880 posts, RR: 15 Reply 1, posted (1 year 10 months 1 week 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 2139 times:
Not as long as they are partly LH owned. Once the merger and the integration with Airberlin is completed, they will most likely phase out the old 763s when these are no longer needed..
As you know, Airberlin has ordered 787........
Kole Feut un' 'nen steiffen Wind gifft 'nen krusen Buedel un' 'nen luetten Pint
PanHAM From Germany, joined May 2005, 3880 posts, RR: 15 Reply 3, posted (1 year 10 months 1 week 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 2075 times:
Well, it is kind of a merger with shares swap etc. and the whole thing is pending approval by the "Kartellamt" -mergers and monopolies commission.
Arcandor, which owns Thomas Cook (and Karstadt) will then become a major shareholder in Airberlin. It remains to be seen how this developes, but concerning your question, they will consolidate routes and just by that, it is likely that a few of the 763 either become obsolete ot will be employed on new route developments.
Once the 787 start joining the fleet, they will replace the767s first and the 330s at a later stage.
Kole Feut un' 'nen steiffen Wind gifft 'nen krusen Buedel un' 'nen luetten Pint
757767lover From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2006, 264 posts, RR: 0 Reply 4, posted (1 year 10 months 1 week 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 1934 times:
Quoting PanHAM (Reply 3): Arcandor, which owns Thomas Cook (and Karstadt) will then become a major shareholder in Airberlin. It remains to be seen how this developes, but concerning your question, they will consolidate routes and just by that, it is likely that a few of the 763 either become obsolete ot will be employed on new route developments.
It seems to me like the start of a soap opera. When everything has settled down What airlines will be left Lufthansa Air Berlin and TUIFLY is that it?
Columba From Germany, joined Dec 2004, 5620 posts, RR: 5 Reply 5, posted (1 year 10 months 1 week 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 1905 times:
Quoting 757767lover (Reply 4): What airlines will be left Lufthansa Air Berlin and TUIFLY is that it?
Only Air Berlin and Lufthansa. Tuifly will merge with Germanwings a subsidiary of Lufthansa.
Quoting Plairbus (Thread starter): Hi, any info about when and with what is Condor going to change there B-767 ???
As it has been said AB will buy Condor and the A330/767s will be replaced with 787-8s. Even more interesting is what AB will do with the 757-300s ?
If they merge with Condor they have a very diverse fleet by many different manufacturers
Do 228 (owned by LGW)
Fokker 100s (owned by Germania rumored to be replacd with Q400s)
737-300 (former DBA/Germania planes)
737-700
737-800
A319,A320,A321
757-200 (Belair)
757-300 (Condor)
767-300 (Belair/Condor)
A330-200
A330-300
The 737-300s will be replaced with more 737-700s from the 2006 order and will be gone quickly. The F100s are also on their way out. Maybe they will be replaced with Q400s if not A319/737-700 will be used instead.
Does AB still have the right to change A320s into different models ? If so I can imagine that they will change some A319s and A320s into A321s. They have plenty of aircraft in the 737-700/A319 and 737-800/A320 size.
AB owns only 49% of Belair but I can see the 757-200 being replaced with A321 and the 767 with 787s
The 757-300s are a useful tool for "warm water destinations" but can not be filled all over the year an experience Condor is having with them. I expect them to leave the fleet early.
The leases of the A330 will expire soon and AB has already leased 787s for that time. The 767s are all owned so I expect the A330 to leave earlier as the 767s.
In the future around 2015 AB´s fleet will still be very diverse but not as bad as it is now. I can imagine it looking somehow like this:
Bombarider Q400 (operated by LGW/owned by Germania)
737-700
737-800
A319/A320/A321
787-8 (maybe some -9s)
Also AB said they will grow in the Cargo business and although the focus will be on underbelly cargo the acquisition of freighter aircraft is an option. For that matter 777LRF seems to be the logical choice as it offers commonality with the 787.
Life is what happens to you while you're busy making other plans - John Lennon
PanHAM From Germany, joined May 2005, 3880 posts, RR: 15 Reply 6, posted (1 year 10 months 1 week 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 1892 times:
Well, it will be Lufthansa Group and Airberlin.
If everything works out as the big players have set it up, TUIFly will be merged with Eurowings and German Wings., LH will have a 40 % share in that company, which means it will not be an integrated part of Lufthansa Group, but they can't do anything without LH's blessing either. As far as LH is concerned, TUIFly takes over the part Condor has played before but LH has less exposure to the risk and is, OTOH more free in their own route decisions.
What is left in Germany besides the above? Hamburg International and Blue Wings and OLT. All other small carriers have agreements,m such as in Lufthansa Feeder services etc.
But the, we do not have a "German market" any longer, since a couple of years we have a European single market. Industry is just carrying out what Politics have made possible.
It remains to be seen what will be left in Europe in a few years. From a German point of view, we are well posi
Kole Feut un' 'nen steiffen Wind gifft 'nen krusen Buedel un' 'nen luetten Pint
Columba From Germany, joined Dec 2004, 5620 posts, RR: 5 Reply 7, posted (1 year 10 months 1 week 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 1877 times:
Quoting PanHAM (Reply 6): As far as LH is concerned, TUIFly takes over the part Condor has played before but LH has less exposure to the risk and is, OTOH more free in their own route decisions.
Also LH will have less costs as all the personal of the new airline will not fall under LH´s collective labor agreement while DE was a fully owned by LH and all pilots were paid the same as LH mainline pilots.
In that matter it is interesting to see if LH Cargo will continue to have its own aircraft or if the flights will be done by Aerologic.
Life is what happens to you while you're busy making other plans - John Lennon
PanHAM From Germany, joined May 2005, 3880 posts, RR: 15 Reply 8, posted (1 year 10 months 1 week 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 1877 times:
Quoting Columba (Reply 5): Also AB said they will grow in the Cargo business and although the focus will be on underbelly cargo the acquisition of freighter aircraft is an option. For that matter 777LRF seems to be the logical choice as it offers commonality with the 787.
I'd challenge that. Leisure Cargo makes money by marketing otherwise empty belly capacity, they started doing that as a company owned by LTU. They have a good portfolio of carriers by now and just filling up the bellies of the future 787 fleet willbe kind of a challenge. They will meet these expections, but owning and running an all cargo fleet is a whole different ball game. Especially when you start from scratch with an owned or leased fleet of new aircraft in an environment where many start-ups and go-as-quick-as-they-came carriers operate with older equipment on a lower cost base.
Kole Feut un' 'nen steiffen Wind gifft 'nen krusen Buedel un' 'nen luetten Pint
Plairbus From Germany, joined Feb 2008, 311 posts, RR: 3 Reply 9, posted (1 year 10 months 1 week 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 1681 times:
its funny, a few years ago when start to look for flights from Germany to Palma de Majorca for example a route that i fly often i had 5 or 6 airlines to choice and yes there were always cheap offers, right know i had to buy an air Berlin ticket for the 12 of April to fly DUS-PMI and i had to pay 207 euros, one way. finally what happens in Germany is going to be bad for the customers.
GCT64 From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2007, 506 posts, RR: 1 Reply 10, posted (1 year 10 months 1 week 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 1585 times:
Quoting Plairbus (Reply 9): when start to look for flights from Germany to Palma de Majorca for example a route that i fly often i had 5 or 6 airlines to choice and yes there were always cheap offers, right know i had to buy an air Berlin ticket for the 12 of April to fly DUS-PMI and i had to pay 207 euros, one way. finally what happens in Germany is going to be bad for the customers.
While there seems to be lots of enthusiasm for consolidation on A.net, one of the drivers for it must be to reduce competition and increase fares/yields and, hence, improve company's bottom line. This is going to be bad for customers whether in Germany with the Air Berlin / Lufthansa duopoly or in the US with DL-NW, CO-UA etc.
However, I would guess a natural consequence of increasing fares and reducing competition on flights to places like PMI, will be that Easyjet and Ryanair (and others) will quickly spot opportunities and move into those markets. Easy already operate SXF-PMI and DTM-PMI, Ryanair operate HHN-PMI and I'm sure there are other examples. So I wouldn't worry too much (so long as you like either bright yellow or bright orange). I think you can quite sensibly add Easyjet and Ryanair to the list of German based airlines.
Columba From Germany, joined Dec 2004, 5620 posts, RR: 5 Reply 12, posted (1 year 10 months 1 week 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 725 times:
Quoting Plairbus (Reply 9): its funny, a few years ago when start to look for flights from Germany to Palma de Majorca for example a route that i fly often i had 5 or 6 airlines to choice and yes there were always cheap offers, right know i had to buy an air Berlin ticket for the 12 of April to fly DUS-PMI and i had to pay 207 euros, one way. finally what happens in Germany is going to be bad for the customers.
Well it is not the German charter airlines anymore that compete with each other now, it is not DE, LT, HF, AB anymore but now its is Air Berlin against Easyjet, Ryanair, Clickair.....
Life is what happens to you while you're busy making other plans - John Lennon
Plairbus From Germany, joined Feb 2008, 311 posts, RR: 3 Reply 13, posted (1 year 10 months 1 week 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 712 times:
yeah, thats true, i remember my favorite charter airlines hapag lloyd when they still flew in there blue-orange-white colours, there were really good. i remember the hot meals on this 1 hour 50 minutes flight.
Sponsor Message: 
From Germany, joined Feb 2008, 311 posts, 
From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2006, 264 posts, 
Printer friendly format 
