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JAL Routes In The '60s  
User currently offlinePa747sp From Australia, joined Jan 2008, 228 posts, RR: 0
Posted (6 years 6 months 2 weeks ago) and read 3082 times:

I just bought a JAL route book from the early 60s.

It shows a projected route of LAX - New Orleans - Caracas - Belem - Rio - Sao Paulo

Was this route ever operated?


Nothing seems as good since the VC10.
17 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineTimz From United States of America, joined Sep 1999, 6813 posts, RR: 7
Reply 1, posted (6 years 6 months 1 week 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 2843 times:

Not in the 1960s, it seems. Far as I can see JL didn't start flying to S America until 1978-- the 5/78 ABC says a biweekly DC8 was to start the following month, "subject to confirmation", Tokyo to Sao Paolo with two unspecified stops. In the 1/79 OAG the flight is NRT-ANC-JFK-SJU-VCP-GIG and back; it's not listed under Tokyo-NY or under NY-Sao Paolo or SJU-Sao Paolo-- so apparently they didn't have too many traffic rights.

In the other thread somebody said JL flew NRT-ANC-MIA-GRU-- I'll see if I can find that.

I'm guessing they never flew to MSY or CCS.


User currently offlineJohnClipper From Hong Kong, joined Aug 2005, 843 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (6 years 6 months 1 week 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 2716 times:

I think the JAL flight was NRT-LAX-GRU at one time - I don't think they ever flew to MIA.

User currently offlineRleiro From Venezuela, joined Jan 2006, 498 posts, RR: 7
Reply 3, posted (6 years 6 months 1 week 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 2627 times:

JAL operated in the late 70's and early 80's a weekly flight to CCS via LAX, although it was dropped quickly.

Saludos,

Roberto.



A proud SVZM Spotter!
User currently offlineWA707atMSP From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 2221 posts, RR: 8
Reply 4, posted (6 years 6 months 1 week 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 2526 times:



Quoting JohnClipper (Reply 2):
I think the JAL flight was NRT-LAX-GRU at one time - I don't think they ever flew to MIA.

JAL served MIA with a tech stop only, on the TYO-ANC-MIA-GRU route. JAL never had the authority to carry passengers between MIA and Japan or Brazil. DC-8-62s were used on the route.

As part of the same bilateral agreement between the US and Japan in the mid 1980s that gave AA DFW-NRT, DL ATL-PDX-NRT, and NH NRT-LAX/IAD, JAL was allowed to fly Japan-US-Brazil with full local traffic rights between the US and Brazil. That's when JAL added Los Angeles - Brazil as an extension of their Japan-Los Angeles flights.



Seaholm Maples are #1!
User currently offlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 25117 posts, RR: 22
Reply 5, posted (6 years 6 months 1 week 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 2395 times:



Quoting WA707atMSP (Reply 4):
That's when JAL added Los Angeles - Brazil as an extension of their Japan-Los Angeles flights.

And then a few years later they switched the intermediate stop on GRU flights from LAX to JFK to benefit from stronger traffic. It's also very slightly shorter via JFK (about 100 nm).


User currently offlineOgre727 From Spain, joined Feb 2005, 719 posts, RR: 2
Reply 6, posted (6 years 6 months 1 week 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 2293 times:



Quoting Rleiro (Reply 3):
JAL operated in the late 70's and early 80's a weekly flight to CCS via LAX, although it was dropped quickly.

Saludos,

Do you have any pictures of this?



Sigh
User currently offlineRleiro From Venezuela, joined Jan 2006, 498 posts, RR: 7
Reply 7, posted (6 years 6 months 1 week 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 2285 times:



Quote:
Do you have any pictures of this?

Unfortunately I don't, but in Caracas there were ads of this weekly flight to Tokyo via LAX. One of them remained at Avenida Francisco de Miranda here until the late 80's when it was retired.

Saludos,

Roberto.



A proud SVZM Spotter!
User currently offlineOgre727 From Spain, joined Feb 2005, 719 posts, RR: 2
Reply 8, posted (6 years 6 months 1 week 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 2271 times:



Quoting Rleiro (Reply 7):
Unfortunately I don't, but in Caracas there were ads of this weekly flight to Tokyo via LAX. One of them remained at Avenida Francisco de Miranda here until the late 80's when it was retired.

That is very unfortunate. I have always looked for this kind of pictures: PAN AM/Eastern/Swissair/JAL in Caracas....



Sigh
User currently offlineRleiro From Venezuela, joined Jan 2006, 498 posts, RR: 7
Reply 9, posted (6 years 6 months 1 week 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 2258 times:



Quote:
That is very unfortunate. I have always looked for this kind of pictures: PAN AM/Eastern/Swissair/JAL in Caracas....

In the database there are some pictures of Pan Am and Eastern in Caracas:


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Fernando Berguno
View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Ricardo Haddad



Swissair, Japan Airlines, British Caledonian, Braniff... all these airlines had flights to CCS in a given moment.

Saludos,

Roberto.



A proud SVZM Spotter!
User currently offlineOgre727 From Spain, joined Feb 2005, 719 posts, RR: 2
Reply 10, posted (6 years 6 months 1 week 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 2223 times:



Quoting Rleiro (Reply 9):
Swissair, Japan Airlines, British Caledonian, Braniff... all these airlines had flights to CCS in a given moment.

Saludos,

Roberto.

I had seen these pictures before, they are pretty cool. I once fun into a swissair in ccs picture, but could never find that website again. Don't forget British Airways, KLM...  Sad



Sigh
User currently offlineAbrelosojos From Venezuela, joined May 2005, 5088 posts, RR: 55
Reply 11, posted (6 years 6 months 1 week 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 2173 times:



Quoting Rleiro (Reply 9):
Swissair, Japan Airlines, British Caledonian, Braniff... all these airlines had flights to CCS in a given moment.

Saludos,

Roberto.

= Roberto, thanks for sharing those pics. I loved seeing the SSC in the foreground of the PA picture.

Cheers,
A.



Live, and let live.
User currently offlinePanAm747 From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 4242 posts, RR: 8
Reply 12, posted (6 years 6 months 1 week 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 2160 times:

http://www.airchive.com/SITE%20PAGES/TIMETABLES-ASIA.html

There is a JAL route map from 1968 here, and it show the route you mentioned - "By Special Schedule". Anyone know what THAT means? Charter service, maybe?



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User currently offlineRleiro From Venezuela, joined Jan 2006, 498 posts, RR: 7
Reply 13, posted (6 years 6 months 1 week 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 2085 times:



Quote:
There is a JAL route map from 1968 here, and it show the route you mentioned - "By Special Schedule".

Wow, THANK YOU for this site. I have at least the material prove I needed to show my friends that I was right!

Perhaps "Special Schedule" is holiday season (from december to January and from July to September)

Saludos,

Roberto.



A proud SVZM Spotter!
User currently offlinePa747sp From Australia, joined Jan 2008, 228 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (6 years 6 months 1 week 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 2048 times:



Quoting PanAm747 (Reply 12):
"By Special Schedule". Anyone know what THAT means? Charter service, maybe?

I'm guessing a seasonal or charter route. It is hard to imagine why there would be seasonal traffic demand, but then, what would the charter traffic be? This route map looks pretty similar to the one I have.



Nothing seems as good since the VC10.
User currently offlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 25117 posts, RR: 22
Reply 15, posted (6 years 6 months 1 week 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 2028 times:



Quoting Rleiro (Reply 9):
Quote:
That is very unfortunate. I have always looked for this kind of pictures: PAN AM/Eastern/Swissair/JAL in Caracas....

In the database there are some pictures of Pan Am and Eastern in Caracas:

Pan Am's August 1, 1963 timetable shows 22 departures a week from CCS. It was an intermediate stop on several flights to/from other points in South America and the Caribbean. Southbound PA routings involving CCS in August 1963:

JFK-CCS 2 x wk
JFK-CCS-ASU-EZE-MVD 1 x wk
JFK-CCS-EZE 1 x wk
MIA-SJU-CCS-GIG-VCP (Viracopos Airport, Sao Paulo) 1 x wk
MIA-SJU-CUR-CCS-POS 1 x wk
MIA-SDQ-CUR-CCS-POS-GEO-PBM 1 x wk
SFO-LAX-GUA-PTY-CCS-GIG 2 x wk
PTY-MAR-CCS-POS 2 x wk
MIA-KIN-PAP-CCS 2 x wk (cargo only)


User currently offlineTimz From United States of America, joined Sep 1999, 6813 posts, RR: 7
Reply 16, posted (6 years 6 months 1 week 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 1979 times:

It seems JL flew NRT-ANC-JFK-SJU-VCP-GIG in 1979-80, then in 9/81 it was NRT-ANC-MIA-VCP. Ditto in 9/82, but in 11/82 it was NRT-LAX-MIA-VCP, still with the DC-8. In 12/82 it became a LAX-MIA-VCP DC-8 connecting with a NRT-LAX 747; ditto in 1/84. Then in 1/86 and 1/88 a twice-weekly 747 NRT-LAX-GIG-- no Sao Paolo flight.

User currently offlineMarioSPlane From Brazil, joined Mar 2007, 113 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (6 years 6 months 1 week 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 1899 times:

The first Brazil-Japan flight agreement dates back to 1962. Varig started their flights in ´68. Officially, the first JAL plane to arrive in Brazil did so in June 20, 1978. Nevertheless, I remember reading something about a São Paulo-Tokyo flight in the sixties, with a DC-4 or DC-6, taking 3 days and departing from Congonhas ! It might be one of these special schedule flights, but I don´t know for sure if it was JAL´s, nor if this thing I´ve read is true at all. I´m browsing all my aviation related books to see if I can find what I remember reading and if so, I´ll post it here.



Cheers


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