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Gol To Drop CNF-GRU-SCL And GIG-GRU-LIM  
User currently offlineLipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11421 posts, RR: 58
Posted (6 years 5 months 3 weeks 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 3892 times:
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More service reductions from G3/RG group, and this i should say is more than expected.

Effective today Gol will be dropping it's GIG-GRU-LIM service and by March 1st, the daily service CNF-GRU-SCL will be also dropped.

G3 begin last year to fly on a daily basis to LIM with 737-800, first as an overnight GIG-GRU-LIM service, reduced further to 6x weekly and schedule change to daylight GIG-GRU-LIM to avoid LP competition. Loads use to be very low, sometimes around 40 pax.

In the press release G3 states that flights over 4 hours seems to be out of their business model, as demand is stronger from Business Passengers (which probably demands hot meals, business class service) and use this reason to explain why they are cutting services.

Seems that G3 strategy is not working for International Flights due to the strong competition and the fact it's not possible to sell tickets for lower fares (they are controlled). Same fares with less services = bad loads and yields.

Passengers on SCL route will be flying on the RG 763 daily service to SCL. Passengers from LIM should contact Gol.
G3 will continue the POA-EZE-SCL-LIM service.

Felipe


New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
31 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinePe@rson From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2001, 19199 posts, RR: 52
Reply 1, posted (6 years 5 months 3 weeks 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 3869 times:

Hey Felipe,

Sorry for hijacking your thread, but perhaps you could help: are there alternative airports within, say, 30 or 40 miles of both RIO and SAO (other than GIG, SDU, GRU and CGH) that could sustain discount airline operations?



"Everyone writing for the Telegraph knows that the way to grab eyeballs is with Ryanair and/or sex."
User currently offlinePU752 From Uruguay, joined Mar 2005, 584 posts, RR: 1
Reply 2, posted (6 years 5 months 3 weeks 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 3852 times:

Quoting Pe@rson (Reply 1):
Sorry for hijacking your thread, but perhaps you could help: are there alternative airports within, say, 30 or 40 miles of both RIO and SAO (other than GIG, SDU, GRU and CGH) that could sustain discount airline operations?

I think VIX does, or Campinhas/Viracopos and Sao Jose dos Campos..

[Edited 2008-02-11 09:35:15]

[Edited 2008-02-11 09:36:07]

User currently offlineLipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11421 posts, RR: 58
Reply 3, posted (6 years 5 months 3 weeks 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 3836 times:
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Quoting Pe@rson (Reply 1):
Sorry for hijacking your thread, but perhaps you could help: are there alternative airports within, say, 30 or 40 miles of both RIO and SAO (other than GIG, SDU, GRU and CGH) that could sustain discount airline operations?

On the distance mentioned, in fact no for today's airports.

You can try to use Campo de Marte in São Paulo but it's just in the middle of CGH and GRU (which means probably some restrictions apply on approach and departures). The closer SAO holds it's CPQ, SJK (as mentioned by PU752), Jundiai and Sorocaba airports.
In Rio, there is a field in Nova Iguaçu that can be expanded to become an operational airport. A Small airport like Jacarepagua, closer to the rich area of Barra da Tijuca is not able to handle jets without a runway extension. In the leisure area of the Lagoons Region, Cabo Frio is now operational (about 100 miles north from Rio).

Quoting PU752 (Reply 2):
I think VIX does, or Sao Jose dos campos.

PU752, VIX in fact is a little far, about 250 miles north of Rio.

Felipe



New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
User currently offlinePU752 From Uruguay, joined Mar 2005, 584 posts, RR: 1
Reply 4, posted (6 years 5 months 3 weeks 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 3823 times:



Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 3):
PU752, VIX in fact is a little far, about 250 miles north of Rio.

Yes my bad....185nm north..sorry........what about Sao Pedro da Aldeia SBES?


User currently offlineLipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11421 posts, RR: 58
Reply 5, posted (6 years 5 months 3 weeks 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 3795 times:
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Quoting PU752 (Reply 4):
Yes my bad....185nm north..sorry........what about Sao Pedro da Aldeia SBES?

It's in fact an active Helicopter base from Navy where they holds some aircrafts (for the aircraft carrier) and helicopters, very close to Cabo Frio Airport which holds a marvellous 2,700m runway at sea level.

Felipe



New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
User currently offlineFLY2LIM From United States of America, joined May 2004, 1184 posts, RR: 10
Reply 6, posted (6 years 5 months 3 weeks 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 3759 times:



Quoting LipeGIG (Thread starter):
In the press release G3 states that flights over 4 hours seems to be out of their business model, as demand is stronger from Business Passengers (which probably demands hot meals, business class service) and use this reason to explain why they are cutting services.

Can't speak for passengers from SCL, but LIM passengers have better options with meals and such and we prefer to fly out of LIM at night. Also, many in Peru don't have access to the internet, credit cards, etc. which are needed for an operation like GOL. This may also be affecting their success.

FLY2LIM



Faucett. La primera linea aerea del Peru.
User currently offlineC010T3 From Brazil, joined Jul 2006, 3684 posts, RR: 19
Reply 7, posted (6 years 5 months 3 weeks 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 3758 times:



Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 3):
Cabo Frio is now operational (about 100 miles north from Rio).

To be more precise, 75 miles east of Rio.

Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 5):
It's in fact an active Helicopter base from Navy where they holds some aircrafts (for the aircraft carrier) and helicopters, very close to Cabo Frio Airport which holds a marvellous 2,700m runway at sea level.

There is also SNZ, which is a Air Force Base only 31 miles outside the city in the west, not to mention the small Volta Redonda airport only 60 miles northwest that will have its runway extended.
CFB is really the best alternative today. SNZ could be transformed into a good airport since it has lots of space for expansion.


User currently offlinePHKLM From Northern Mariana Islands, joined Dec 2005, 1198 posts, RR: 2
Reply 8, posted (6 years 5 months 3 weeks 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 3720 times:



Quoting FLY2LIM (Reply 6):
Also, many in Peru don't have access to the internet, credit cards, etc. which are needed for an operation like GOL. This may also be affecting their success.

It will play a role, certainly, but don't forget the people that need to travel between GRU and LIM are likely the ones to have access to the Internet and a credit card...
AFAIK Gol tickets can be booked through agencies as well, you can pay the travel agent in cash.


User currently offlineLipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11421 posts, RR: 58
Reply 9, posted (6 years 5 months 3 weeks 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 3706 times:
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Quoting PHKLM (Reply 8):
It will play a role, certainly, but don't forget the people that need to travel between GRU and LIM are likely the ones to have access to the Internet and a credit card...

But they generally prefer FF programs, a good meal, and the easy to connect at LIM. G3 was never a good player on this route as they heavily depend on connections. TA and LP dominates both the market from Sao Paulo and Lima. G3 could manage to try to fly BSB-LIM or GIG-LIM, but their operations area thinks that only Sao Paulo fills an international flight. In fact, considering the level of service, even a GIG-LIM wont help so much. BSB-LIM in the other hand, could be interesting as it's not so long, and BSB would be a better and quick way to reach North and Northeast.

Quoting PHKLM (Reply 8):
AFAIK Gol tickets can be booked through agencies as well, you can pay the travel agent in cash.

Not sure about Peru. In Brazil you're 100% right.

Quoting C010T3 (Reply 7):
There is also SNZ, which is a Air Force Base only 31 miles outside the city in the west, not to mention the small Volta Redonda airport only 60 miles northwest that will have its runway extended.
CFB is really the best alternative today. SNZ could be transformed into a good airport since it has lots of space for expansion.

Agree, but at this time GIG has plenty of space for future expansion.

Quoting C010T3 (Reply 7):
To be more precise, 75 miles east of Rio.

Thanks for the precise info.

Felipe



New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
User currently offlineC010T3 From Brazil, joined Jul 2006, 3684 posts, RR: 19
Reply 10, posted (6 years 5 months 3 weeks 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 3692 times:



Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 9):

Agree, but at this time GIG has plenty of space for future expansion.

I fully agree, but he was asking about a cheaper alternative airport that could accommodate LCCs. FRA is always good for comparisons. GIG would be FRA and SNZ would be HHN.


User currently offlineIncitatus From Brazil, joined Feb 2005, 4003 posts, RR: 13
Reply 11, posted (6 years 5 months 3 weeks 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 3662 times:



Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 3):
You can try to use Campo de Marte in São Paulo but it's just in the middle of CGH and GRU (which means probably some restrictions apply on approach and departures).

Campo de Marte has plenty of traffic for its size. A lot of it is traffic that migrated out of Congonhas over the years. In fact, it holds three times more landings and take-offs than Viracopos. Part of its navigation aids has been inoperable for years and there is not something that could pass for a passenger terminal. After Viracopos, I would think Sao Jose dos Campos is the second best alternative, and it is an airport that could serve the entire area along Dutra, from Mogi to Guaratingueta'/Aparecida.

Santa Cruz seems a good location for Rio, though the Air Force would have to share the airport with civilian traffic.


User currently offlineFLY2LIM From United States of America, joined May 2004, 1184 posts, RR: 10
Reply 12, posted (6 years 5 months 3 weeks 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 3593 times:



Quoting PHKLM (Reply 8):
It will play a role, certainly, but don't forget the people that need to travel between GRU and LIM are likely the ones to have access to the Internet and a credit card...
AFAIK Gol tickets can be booked through agencies as well, you can pay the travel agent in cash.

Totally agree, but those people also probably enjoy their comfort, hot meal, amenities, etc. that are offered in other airlines. And no doubt, there are travel agencies in Peru that will sell you a Gol ticket for a fee. However, I think the market was probably not the best one for Gol.

FLY2LIM



Faucett. La primera linea aerea del Peru.
User currently offlineRJ_Delta From Chile, joined Oct 2000, 1944 posts, RR: 12
Reply 13, posted (6 years 5 months 3 weeks 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 3567 times:

Since six months ago, GOL has been reported low loads its its flight from Chile to Brazil and better results in the SCL-EZE route. As Lipe said, one of the reason is the strong competition of others airlines which offers a higher product with almost the same price, LAN and TAM for example.

In the case of Chile, GOL is very attractive to fly from Santiago to Buenos Aires where the type of service is according of the flight time (1:30 - 1:45 hours aprox).

Considering the different change in the regional market at this moment LAN Airlines is the winner in the Chile/Peru-Brazil market (specially Chile) because a good combination of a high type of service and its new business model which able to the company to offer low prices and increasing the yields.


User currently offlineSAOAP From Brazil, joined Mar 2005, 170 posts, RR: 3
Reply 14, posted (6 years 5 months 3 weeks 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 3511 times:

Gol is likely to pave the way for Varig giving them full access to the international market. I can see Varig re-launching LIM, MVD and possibly VVI in the near future. These are all business markets and Varig will be in a position to offer a product in the near future.

Cheers,

Marcelo



"When it's dark enough, you can see the stars" - Charles A. Beard
User currently offlinePU752 From Uruguay, joined Mar 2005, 584 posts, RR: 1
Reply 15, posted (6 years 5 months 3 weeks 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 3507 times:



Quoting SAOAP (Reply 14):
Gol is likely to pave the way for Varig giving them full access to the international market. I can see Varig re-launching LIM, MVD

RG announced MVD to start in DEC07.....but nothing happened yet....I think the market is already quite well served but lets see..


User currently offlineSAOAP From Brazil, joined Mar 2005, 170 posts, RR: 3
Reply 16, posted (6 years 5 months 3 weeks 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 3487 times:



Quoting PU752 (Reply 15):

Yep, I remember a while back that the flight was already loaded in the CRS and from what I can remember it was selling pretty well - or else Varig had simply wait-listed all flights... I imagine Gol will turn over their flight once Varig has enough new 737s in the fleet.

Cheers,

Marcelo



"When it's dark enough, you can see the stars" - Charles A. Beard
User currently offlineIncitatus From Brazil, joined Feb 2005, 4003 posts, RR: 13
Reply 17, posted (6 years 5 months 3 weeks 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 3466 times:



Quoting FLY2LIM (Reply 6):
Can't speak for passengers from SCL, but LIM passengers have better options with meals and such and we prefer to fly out of LIM at night.

And the GOL fares are rather disappointing for the service they offer. I was looking at several combinations and some fares are just ridiculous. For example, FLN-VIX will set me back more than 1000 reais, or $600 US roundtrip, even a month in advance. It is one complete rip-off.

Brazil needs more airlines.


User currently offlinePU752 From Uruguay, joined Mar 2005, 584 posts, RR: 1
Reply 18, posted (6 years 5 months 3 weeks 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 3464 times:



Quoting SAOAP (Reply 16):
Yep, I remember a while back that the flight was already loaded in the CRS and from what I can remember it was selling pretty well - or else Varig had simply wait-listed all flights... I imagine Gol will turn over their flight once Varig has enough new 737s in the fleet.

Was the usual GRU-POA-MVD or just GRU-MVD ?


User currently offlineNeo From Brazil, joined Jan 2001, 671 posts, RR: 6
Reply 19, posted (6 years 5 months 3 weeks 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 3419 times:



Quoting Incitatus (Reply 17):
Brazil needs more airlines.

Thank God someone agrees with me on that!! Brazilian airlines need more competition in domestic market.. it is just ridiculus what they are charging for flights... the examples Incitatus gave is one of many. Ocean Air and Webjet are too small yet...

We need more competition... both domestically and in international flights. And don't give that crappy speach that BR doesn't sustain more airlines.. I see a lot of room for other players in the market.. specially out of the GRU-CGH axis..

Rgs,

Neo


User currently offlineSJOtoLIR From Costa Rica, joined Jul 2007, 4403 posts, RR: 4
Reply 20, posted (6 years 5 months 3 weeks 2 days ago) and read 3366 times:



Quoting LipeGIG (Thread starter):
Effective today Gol will be dropping it's GIG-GRU-LIM service and by March 1st, the daily service CNF-GRU-SCL will be also dropped.

The issue at stake for Santiago de Chile could be focusing in the duplicated service by both G3 and RG in the same route: GRU-SCL.




.

Quoting LipeGIG (Thread starter):
G3 will continue the POA-EZE-SCL-LIM service.

With respect to Peru, the service mentioned is actually the daily G3 LIM-SCL-EZE-GRU with 738.
The third operation in Santiago de Chile is G3 SCL-EZE-POA.
I would assume they are not withdrawing these flights.

Regards.



"Goin' up to the spirit in the sky"
User currently offlineCmtehori From Brazil, joined Jun 2005, 89 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (6 years 5 months 3 weeks 2 days ago) and read 3350 times:



Quoting Incitatus (Reply 11):
Part of its navigation aids has been inoperable for years and there is not something that could pass for a passenger terminal

I have not checked notams, but I believe its NDB and the VASIS for rwy 30 are serviceable (though it´s not enough for a commercial operation). There is a project to implement a ILS CAT I for SBMT on rwy 30, actually they´d rebuild the rwy to something like 32/14, but anytime a plane would have to go around, approaches in SBGR would be jeopardized, so I don´t believe this is ever going to happen. Besides, a new pax terminal would have to be built, the taxiways would need to be widened, a descent parking lot would have to be built, etc...

Quoting Incitatus (Reply 11):
After Viracopos, I would think Sao Jose dos Campos is the second best alternative,

Totally agree, long 3,000m rwy with ILS, small (but already there) passenger terminal, easy access from São Paulo and Campinas.

Quoting Incitatus (Reply 17):
Brazil needs more airlines.

Once again I couldn't agree more, but I guess we all here also agree that we need a better airport/atc structure.


Best,
Carlos



727-200, 737-300/700/800, 757-200, 767-200/300/400, A310, A319, A320, A330, MD-88, MD-11, DC-8-73F, F100, ERJ145, CRJ200
User currently offlineLipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11421 posts, RR: 58
Reply 22, posted (6 years 5 months 3 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 3324 times:
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Quoting Neo (Reply 19):
Thank God someone agrees with me on that!! Brazilian airlines need more competition in domestic market.. it is just ridiculus what they are charging for flights... the examples Incitatus gave is one of many. Ocean Air and Webjet are too small yet...

Agree 100%, WebJet is trying to move faster, but it's still a small player.

Quoting PU752 (Reply 18):
Was the usual GRU-POA-MVD or just GRU-MVD ?

RG use to hold frequencies for a GRU-MVD flight, but G3 runs GRU-POA-MVD nowadays.


Felipe



New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
User currently offlinePe@rson From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2001, 19199 posts, RR: 52
Reply 23, posted (6 years 5 months 3 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 3304 times:

Thanks folks.

Yeah, when I've searched airfares in Brazil I've been amazed and shocked just how expensive they can be.

If there were alternative airports for most major Brazilian cities (assuming the main airport couldn't/wouldn't give a sufficient discount based on delivering X volume and couldn't enable achievement of operational targets, e.g. excellent punctuality, whereas the alternatives could/would do both), it'd be one part of the mix that could make things potentially very exciting. Hmm.



"Everyone writing for the Telegraph knows that the way to grab eyeballs is with Ryanair and/or sex."
User currently offlineIncitatus From Brazil, joined Feb 2005, 4003 posts, RR: 13
Reply 24, posted (6 years 5 months 3 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 3201 times:



Quoting Pe@rson (Reply 23):
Yeah, when I've searched airfares in Brazil I've been amazed and shocked just how expensive they can be.

Like we say in Brazil "the occasion makes the thief". Not that GOL has done anything illegal, but the demise of Varig left them with the kind of pricing power their business plan did not anticipate. As a smart business they rightfully took advantage of it, and moved upmarket - at least where it relates to pricing. Thus GOL was to be the savior of the nation when it comes to affordable air travel, but they chose instead to be one of the most profitable airlines in the world. Another outfit is needed to complete GOL's unfulfilled vision.

Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 22):
Agree 100%, WebJet is trying to move faster, but it's still a small player.

I don't know much about Webjet, but building a successful airline comes with the right beginning. That includes serious planning, funding, backers and experienced management team. Do they have that?


25 LipeGIG : Yes, in fact MAO and BEL flights are so expensive as a flight to Europe ! So even with 60% or 70% load factors, airlines are very happy ! The reason:
26 2travel2know : When G3 announced LIM, I thought that the route was going to be GRU-CGB tag-on nighttime, since they serve VVI with a CGR nighttime tag-on too. Sorry
27 SAOAP : It was GRU-MVD vv. Cheers, Marcelo
28 LipeGIG : G3 will continue with the daily EZE-SCL-LIM service.
29 Incitatus : Both Mato Grosso states have strong ties with Bolivia because of farming as Brazilian farmers bought plots in Bolivia. The ties between Mato Grosso a
30 Post contains images 2travel2know : Instead of CGB - Cuiaba (not CGR - Campogrande) should I have written Rio Branco or Porto Velho??
31 LipeGIG : Looking for how developed is the relationship between the states of Rio Grande do Sul, Parana and Santa Catarina with their closer countries Argentin
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