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Airbus Confirms It Will Pitch A380 To ANA  
User currently offlineKappel From Suriname, joined Jul 2005, 3533 posts, RR: 17
Posted (6 years 2 months 1 week 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 10109 times:

John Leahy has confirmed that when they receive the RFP from ANA for the 747 replacement, they will pitch the a380 to them. Not really a surprise of course.

He does not seem to have high expectations though...

http://www.flightglobal.com/articles...n-airways-to-replace-747-400s.html

Quote:
Leahy says he would not be surprised if the airline to order more 777s as part of the replacement plan “but they were probably going to do that anyway”.

He seems to take the underdog position here, which is not a bad idea IMHO.


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65 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineAtmx2000 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 4576 posts, RR: 38
Reply 1, posted (6 years 2 months 1 week 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 10074 times:

Well his comments see more in line what was actually said by ANA regarding ordering more widebodies than was thought to be said in that thread last week about ANA ordering VLAs. Which happens to be in line with what ANA has said in the past regarding 747 replacements, which was the possibility of ordering more 773ERs.


ConcordeBoy is a twin supremacist!! He supports quadicide!!
User currently offlineCodeshare From Poland, joined Sep 2002, 1854 posts, RR: 1
Reply 2, posted (6 years 2 months 1 week 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 10035 times:

What about the high-density 747s ? Surely a 777-300/ER won't match it with capacity.

KS/codeshare



How much A is there is Airliners Net ? 0 or nothing ?
User currently offlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 29689 posts, RR: 84
Reply 3, posted (6 years 2 months 1 week 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 9953 times:
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If you believe some of the rumors, NH and Airbus have already signed a deal for the A380, so Leahy may be sand-bagging to make the order that much more "unexpected".

Quoting Codeshare (Reply 2):
What about the high-density 747s? Surely a 777-300/ER won't match it with capacity.

Per Wiki, the 744D holds 569 and the 773D holds 524 in NH's configurations, so that is close enough.

However, I do not expect NH to order anything other then the 787-3 going forward to handle domestic services. NH has purchased 30 787-3s to replace 30 767-300s and the 787-3s will hold more people. So the 777-300Ds can replace the 747-400Ds and then the 787-3 (either the existing fleet or additional purchases) will take up the slack.


User currently offlineZeke From Hong Kong, joined Dec 2006, 8643 posts, RR: 75
Reply 4, posted (6 years 2 months 1 week 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 9766 times:

Dont think this will be very successful, I remember reading a few years back that ANA ruled out the A380.


We are addicted to our thoughts. We cannot change anything if we cannot change our thinking – Santosh Kalwar
User currently offlineKappel From Suriname, joined Jul 2005, 3533 posts, RR: 17
Reply 5, posted (6 years 2 months 1 week 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 9722 times:



Quoting Codeshare (Reply 2):
What about the high-density 747s ? Surely a 777-300/ER won't match it with capacity.

As Stitch mentioned in reply 3, the 77W is close enough in capacity to the 744D.

Quoting Zeke (Reply 4):
Dont think this will be very successful, I remember reading a few years back that ANA ruled out the A380.

ANA didn't rule the a380 out, but they weren't that keen on the a380 either. Their last comments were a bit more positive, but I agree that this will be a very tough sell for Airbus.

Quoting Stitch (Reply 3):
If you believe some of the rumors, NH and Airbus have already signed a deal for the A380, so Leahy may be sand-bagging to make the order that much more "unexpected".

I wonder about that, the ANA RFP isn't even out yet.



L1011,733,734,73G,738,743,744,752,763,772,77W,DC855,DC863,DC930,DC950,MD11,MD88,306,319,320,321,343,346,ARJ85,CR7,E195
User currently offlineZeke From Hong Kong, joined Dec 2006, 8643 posts, RR: 75
Reply 6, posted (6 years 2 months 1 week 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 9688 times:



Quoting Kappel (Reply 5):
ANA didn't rule the a380 out, but they weren't that keen on the a380 either. Their last comments were a bit more positive, but I agree that this will be a very tough sell for Airbus.

Maybe I misinterpreted this excerpt ...

"ANA has ruled out the Airbus A380, according to Shuichi Fujimura vice president Network Planning, even to replace the high density 569-seat Boeing 747s on the Haneda – Osaka route where the airline wants to increase frequency once the runway problem is solved."

from http://www.abtn.co.uk/ANA_plans_for_big_expansion



We are addicted to our thoughts. We cannot change anything if we cannot change our thinking – Santosh Kalwar
User currently offlineScipio From Belgium, joined Oct 2007, 815 posts, RR: 8
Reply 7, posted (6 years 2 months 1 week 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 9684 times:



Quoting Zeke (Reply 4):
Dont think this will be very successful, I remember reading a few years back that ANA ruled out the A380.

But that was at a time when the 747-8I was still seen as a viable competitor to the A380, and when there were still a lot of questions regarding the performance and market appeal of the A380.

ANA has, to my knowledge, not made any more categorical no-A380 statements recently. So, I think the door is open for an A380 order. At the same time, the 747-8I stands a better chance here than with almost any other airline.

I wouldn't be surprised either way.

Scipio.


User currently offlineLTU932 From Germany, joined Jan 2006, 13864 posts, RR: 50
Reply 8, posted (6 years 2 months 1 week 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 9644 times:



Quoting Zeke (Reply 4):
I remember reading a few years back that ANA ruled out the A380.

Didn't Willie Walsh at BA basically rule out the A380 a few years ago? Because a few years after ruling it out, BA did eventually order the A380 as a 747 replacement.

The point is that things can change over time. While I also doubt that NH will get the A380, after these last years, anything could have changed.


User currently offlineZeke From Hong Kong, joined Dec 2006, 8643 posts, RR: 75
Reply 9, posted (6 years 2 months 1 week 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 9577 times:



Quoting LTU932 (Reply 8):

Didn't Willie Walsh at BA basically rule out the A380 a few years ago? Because a few years after ruling it out, BA did eventually order the A380 as a 747 replacement.

Not that I am aware of, they even left the door open for the 748-i after ordering the A380. He has always been careful with his words.



We are addicted to our thoughts. We cannot change anything if we cannot change our thinking – Santosh Kalwar
User currently offlineKappel From Suriname, joined Jul 2005, 3533 posts, RR: 17
Reply 10, posted (6 years 2 months 1 week 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 9513 times:



Quoting Zeke (Reply 6):
Maybe I misinterpreted this excerpt ...

"ANA has ruled out the Airbus A380, according to Shuichi Fujimura vice president Network Planning, even to replace the high density 569-seat Boeing 747s on the Haneda – Osaka route where the airline wants to increase frequency once the runway problem is solved."

A newer article:

http://www.flightglobal.com/articles...ptimistic-of-all-nippon-order.html

Quote:
"We are studying the A380 and we do talk to Airbus But (an order for the A380) is not a decision we would arrive at quickly."

Like I said, they didn't rule it out completely, but still only a remote chance for Airbus.

I also remember reading another article from flightglobal (from 2005 or 2006) where ANA said they would consider ordering the a380 if it proved ANA was falling behind it's competitor's by not ordering it. Something like that, I haven't been able to find that particular article.

While I wouldn't bet on the a380's chances in this case, I'd love to see the a380 in ANA's c/s (or CX's for that matter)  bigthumbsup 



L1011,733,734,73G,738,743,744,752,763,772,77W,DC855,DC863,DC930,DC950,MD11,MD88,306,319,320,321,343,346,ARJ85,CR7,E195
User currently offlineKappel From Suriname, joined Jul 2005, 3533 posts, RR: 17
Reply 11, posted (6 years 2 months 1 week 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 9504 times:



Quoting Zeke (Reply 9):
Not that I am aware of, they even left the door open for the 748-i after ordering the A380. He has always been careful with his words.

Indeed, WW was always very careful with his wordings with respect to the a380. IIRC his predecessor did all but rule out the a380. And the longer WW was at the helm at BA, the more positive he was speaking about the a380.



L1011,733,734,73G,738,743,744,752,763,772,77W,DC855,DC863,DC930,DC950,MD11,MD88,306,319,320,321,343,346,ARJ85,CR7,E195
User currently offlineChiad From Norway, joined May 2006, 1079 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (6 years 2 months 1 week 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 9355 times:



Quoting LTU932 (Reply 8):

Didn't Willie Walsh at BA basically rule out the A380 a few years ago? Because a few years after ruling it out, BA did eventually order the A380 as a 747 replacement.

I think the A380 has a fair chance in this because it is proving to perform better than first anticipated.
I believe that the A380 will eventually be in the fleet of every major airline that once operated the B747 during the next 40 years.


User currently offlineHT From Germany, joined May 2005, 6525 posts, RR: 25
Reply 13, posted (6 years 2 months 1 week 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 9258 times:



Quoting Zeke (Reply 6):
replace the high density 569-seat Boeing 747s on the Haneda – Osaka route where the airline wants to increase frequency once the runway problem is solved."

"Osaka" --> KIX or ITM ?
If they want to increase frequency, then ANA probably will go for cheaper B773's . If slot restrictions are paramount, the A380 would remain an option, but is it really economically viable for such a short sector ?
-HT



Carpe diem ! Life is too short to waste your time ! Keep in mind, that today is the first day of the rest of your life !
User currently offlineLXA340 From Switzerland, joined Nov 2006, 2117 posts, RR: 4
Reply 14, posted (6 years 2 months 1 week 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 9245 times:

Would the A380 be economical to operate as a high density regional aircraft compared to the B748 or the current B744 used as high density for regional flights within Japan considering this aircraft could feaure around 700 - 800 seats?

User currently offlineKaitak From Ireland, joined Aug 1999, 12323 posts, RR: 35
Reply 15, posted (6 years 2 months 1 week 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 9223 times:

Four engined jets are no longer allowed at ITM and also, with the opening of the fourth runway at HND, in 2010, slot restrictions will allow greater frequency and therefore, the 380 will not be required. I don't see NH operating the 380 on DOMESTIC routes ... but on international routes: that's a different matter.

It's interesting that a number of airlines which have ruled out the 380 are beginning to warm to it - IB, NH and even CX. A lot of major international carriers - Lufty, AF, SQ, will be using A380s to Japan and really, ANA needs to decide if it wants to compete effectively; compared to the 747 - an aircraft for which I have the utmost regard and love - the A380 has a wider fuselage and therefore its 10 abreast will be more comfortable. Then, there's the issue of growth potential and economics, all of which favour the A380. In short, I believe that NH will be a 380 customer; it won't happen tomorrow or even this year or next, but it will happen.


User currently offlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 29689 posts, RR: 84
Reply 16, posted (6 years 2 months 1 week 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 9173 times:
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Quoting HT (Reply 13):
If slot restrictions are paramount, the A380 would remain an option, but is it really economically viable for such a short sector ?



Quoting LXA340 (Reply 14):
Would the A380 be economical to operate as a high density regional aircraft compared to the B748 or the current B744 used as high density for regional flights within Japan considering this aircraft could feaure around 700 - 800 seats?

I am of the opinion it will not be. And that is why I believe Airbus hasn't been actively (to my knowledge) working on a high-cycle domestic version for the Japanese, Indian, or Chinese markets.


User currently offlineTUIflyer From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2008, 205 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (6 years 2 months 1 week 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 9114 times:

'Aircraft manufacturer Airbus is preparing to pitch the Airbus A380 against the Boeing 747, following the airline's recent confirmation that it will replace its 747-400 fleet from the year 2012 with 'large widebodies.'

The Japanese airline, which previously said that it did not see a major role for the superjumbo in it's fleet - it is now however expected to examine the aircraft as part of an extensive evaluation of options.

“We’ve not received ANA’s request for proposals yet, but when we do we will be offering the A380,” said Airbus chief John Leahy.

Other aircraft that are likely to be in the running are the Boeing 777, the 747-800I and possibly the Airbus A350 XWB. Leahy said the he would not be surprised if ANA was to order the 777 as 'they were probably going to do that anyway.'

Both of Japan's major network carriers have shown tremendous loyalty to Boeing due to strong manufacturing ties between Japan and the USA, the manufacturer and the A380 did however visit Tokyo and Osaka during it's various tours.


ANA SPECIAL REPORT: http://www.letsfindaflight.com/page_1181845192626.html


TUIflyer



Don't just travel, travel with a smile. . .
User currently offlinePM From India, joined Feb 2005, 6840 posts, RR: 64
Reply 18, posted (6 years 2 months 1 week 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 7217 times:



Quoting Kappel (Thread starter):
He does not seem to have high expectations though...

By acknowledging the likelihood of further 777 orders that doesn't rule out the A380.

Quoting Zeke (Reply 4):
I remember reading a few years back that ANA ruled out the A380.

They did. But things change.

Quoting LTU932 (Reply 8):
Didn't Willie Walsh at BA basically rule out the A380 a few years ago?

No. It was Rod Eddington.

Quoting HT (Reply 13):
"Osaka" --> KIX or ITM ?

ITM for (most) domestic flights.

My guess? It'll happen!


User currently offlineJRDC930 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 19, posted (6 years 2 months 1 week 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 7160 times:

With the recent success of the A380 in many markets and airbus being able to finally act together, i think they will have a decent shot at this. After all the Japanese market can only grow stronger, and that pitiful joke of the 748i with its glorious sales record and stellar popularity  rotfl , might not seem like a viable A380 alternative to many airlines, ANA included. If the 748i had not become an instant failure, and if airbus hadn't got their act together, id say it would never happen, however with the current situation i think the A380 stands a great shot. All depends on ANA's future business plan

User currently offlineJRDC930 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 20, posted (6 years 2 months 1 week 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 7134 times:



Quoting Scipio (Reply 7):
At the same time, the 747-8I stands a better chance here than with almost any other airline.

So basically a probablity of .0000000000010, with the way things have been going for this plane.


User currently offlineIkramerica From United States of America, joined May 2005, 21416 posts, RR: 60
Reply 21, posted (6 years 2 months 1 week 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 7035 times:



Quoting Kappel (Thread starter):
John Leahy has confirmed that when they receive the RFP from ANA for the 747 replacement, they will pitch the a380 to them. Not really a surprise of course.

He would not be doing his job if he didn't pitch the A380 to NH when they put out an RFP that includes the possibility of VLA orders. The news is about as fresh as "Toyota offers cars for sale."  Wink

Quoting Zeke (Reply 4):
Dont think this will be very successful, I remember reading a few years back that ANA ruled out the A380.

I remember a few months ago people swearing NH had secretly ordered the A380 and we would hear about it before the end of 2007. No amount of pointing out the obvious (RFP not even offered yet, talks not even started) could convince them otherwise.

The reality is things happen in a more orderly fashion, especially in Japan.  Smile

Quoting JRDC930 (Reply 19):
With the recent success of the A380 in many markets

Last time I checked, they still don't have 200 orders and only 2 are delivered. Recent success is a stretch. It's still proving itself, and I don't think NH feels pressure at this time.



Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
User currently offlineZeke From Hong Kong, joined Dec 2006, 8643 posts, RR: 75
Reply 22, posted (6 years 2 months 1 week 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 7005 times:



Quoting PM (Reply 18):
They did. But things change.

Do you know what changed ? have they had a change of philosophy ?



We are addicted to our thoughts. We cannot change anything if we cannot change our thinking – Santosh Kalwar
User currently offlineMaverickM11 From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 16943 posts, RR: 48
Reply 23, posted (6 years 2 months 1 week 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 6995 times:

There aren't a lot of high density international traffic flows to/from Japan. Most airlines have trended toward more frequent, smaller gauge service to/from Japan, particularly TPAC. I don't really see Japan being a major market for the 380, with the exception of some NRT flights.


E pur si muove -Galileo
User currently offlinePM From India, joined Feb 2005, 6840 posts, RR: 64
Reply 24, posted (6 years 2 months 1 week 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 6949 times:



Quoting Zeke (Reply 22):
Do you know what changed ? have they had a change of philosophy ?

I may live here but I probably 'know' less than you do! (At least you're in the industry.) But I can guess.

ANA hoped to manage with three types: the 737, 787 and 777. But such decisions must always be up for regular review. It looks like they now see a need for something bigger than a 777-300ER.

The A380 was probably easier to discount a couple of years ago. For a year or so now there has been nothing but good news coming out about that programme. It's performing well and Airbus seem to be able to build it. And it's selling - slowly, perhaps, but it is. What may have looked like a dead-end in 2006 may now look more appealing.

I'm mindful of what ANA said when they dropped plans to put Trent 800s on their 777s (because BA bought GE) and chose the PW4000 instead. They didn't want to operate a 'niche' engine, they said. (Which is ironic when you compare the subsequent sales of the Trent 800 and PW4000!) Two years ago the A380 may have looked like a 'niche' airliner. Maybe it looks like having a somewhat broader appeal now.

In any case...

Quoting Zeke (Reply 22):
have they had a change of philosophy ?

Looks like it!  bigthumbsup 


25 Post contains images Babybus : Are Japanese airlines now allowed to buy non-American products? Not sure ANA is the right sort of airline for the A380, being a second fiddle outfit.
26 Ikramerica : That's a good assessment. Two years ago, saying the troubled A380 was "not in the plans" was a reasonable response. Why commit, at that time, to a pr
27 Burkhard : I'm sure we will have many more discussions about NH and the A380 before we know the outcome...
28 Post contains images Scouseflyer : 773D & 744D - are these diesel versions to give better fuel consumption?
29 Post contains images Astuteman : I guess if someone said this about the A340NG say, I'd jump in to defend the aircraft, so in the interests of fairness..... A tad harsh this. I think
30 Post contains links Columba : Over the last months they changed their mind from no way to maybe : http://www.flightinternational.com/A...oor+open+for+A380+despite+777.html http://
31 Post contains images Art : Even if Boeing only sell 100 748-i's their decision to go ahead will be vindicated, I think. There's also the commonality attraction for companies th
32 Stitch : How are NH and JL doing financially and international traffic-wise? As I recall, they were both struggling much of this decade with both, so their dis
33 Post contains images NA : Sadly JAL already downgraded the FRA-route to a 77W service last year. Whatever the Japanese airlines current problems might be, for their flagship r
34 Atmx2000 : Is their financial position improving because they have a better mix of premium to economy passengers with greater frequency and smaller aircraft? If
35 Post contains images Stitch : You do not need plane size to stay competitive. Plenty of examples around the world serve as proof of that. And when it comes to the hard product, I'
36 Ikramerica : You know that, and I know that, but it's a recurring theme here on a.net. History tells us that airlines quick to buy the 747 to "be competitive" fou
37 Stitch : It is not just the 747. The DC-10 and L-1011 at times became "too much airplane" when fuel prices rose and/or traffic fell on a certain route.
38 Flysherwood : I do not think that they ever said "no way". It would be very "un-japanese" to say no way. They always say maybe to save your face and theirs too.
39 YULWinterSkies : ANA migh want them when he competition brings it to NRT: AF, BA, QF, SQ, LH, EK are all likely to operate the 380 to NRT.
40 Post contains images NA : Nothing beats the uncomparable nose section in a 747, stick into the 777 what you want. Also a 773 as a flying tube surely is less appealing to some
41 Spacecadet : JL flies 2-3 744's between JFK-NRT every day. And they're all full. These planes are configured to be mostly business class, so I have to think this
42 Khobar : Very nicely said. Downgraded? From...a 747? I've seen a few such comments about various planes and while some seem perfectly logical (swap an old DC-
43 JRDC930 : Ultimately it all comes down to airline perception doesn't it, regardless of the actual performance of the plane. Perhaps, and i think the lack of in
44 Post contains images Flysherwood : It is all about the performance of the plane. JL was/is the largest operator of the 747 in the world. They have stated pretty emphatically that their
45 JRDC930 : I agree with that, but i was referring to airline perception about a certain plane, i.e. airlines perceive the 748i is a piece of crap,( i seem to re
46 Flysherwood : What are you talking about? I don't think that any airline thinks that the 748I is a "piece of crap". You do realize that the 747-8 in both freighter
47 Stitch : It is not so much a case of the 747-8I being a "piece of crap" as it not offering the future growth and adaptability that the A380-800 does. For the m
48 JRDC930 : Yes, 99% of the sales being freighters. im not calling the 748F a piece of crap, im just saying the 748i has been selling like a piece of crap. I als
49 Post contains images Flysherwood : 20 firm + 20 options to LH is not 1% of the sales. Not by a long shot. If ANA or JL buy a VLA, I believe they will buy the 748I. The Japanese are ver
50 Flysherwood : You are forgetting one huge thing. Overcapacity on routes where the 747-8i is the biggest plane you can justify. NWA to the Far East is a great examp
51 Stitch : They might not need one now, but if NW and DL merge, they could consolidate a great deal of traffic across less hubs, so ATL might just need to actua
52 Post contains images Ikramerica : They designed the plane while consulting with 20 potential customers. And since the launch, it's slowed the sales of the A380, and killed the A380F (
53 Widebodyphotog : NH is hardly a second fiddle outfit having overtaken JAL in the JP domestic market,steadily growing revenues, and most importantly profit. ANA has a
54 PM : Sounds like a well-run airline. But... What possible grounds can you have for that ridiculous statement?!
55 Ikramerica : Does NH have a pseudo tourist/charter airline like JALways where they would stick some 744s in high density, or will they be completely phased out? I
56 Carpethead : Either way, a likely NH configured A388 will have the entire upper deck with business class and forward section of the main deck first class and the r
57 PM : I can't see why. ANA ordered the 777 long before JAL did. They ordered the 787 before JAL did and ordered more. They took the - perhaps - more bold d
58 Astuteman : Given that the A380 has experienced a 2 year delay, and that the dollar is at an all-time low, this is perhaps less surprising than it might otherwis
59 PM : 86 748s vs. 50 A380s. But in terms of passenger versions the numbers become 26 vs. 50: a 2:1 advantage for Airbus. And in terms of airlines... 748i L
60 Rheinwaldner : When discussing about fragmentation I think aircraft size is oversold. The reason why 773ER's are replacing 744's may have to do as much with efficien
61 Ikramerica : Well, you've come to the conclusion that buying the A380 is innovative and not buying it is being conservative. I respectfully disagree. I agree that
62 Post contains images Flysherwood : Only because the 748F BURRIED the A380F.
63 Post contains images Flysherwood : JL, UA, NH, NW all are operating smaller aircraft at NRT now then they were 6 years ago. I think that these airlines might know a little about operat
64 PM : So, pray tell, just what does that tell us about the future of the 748i?
65 Flysherwood : That it will be around for a while. You see the 747-8F will pay for the development of the whole program. There will be some airlines that will need
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