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Airbus Orders For January  
User currently offlineFlying-Tiger From Germany, joined Aug 1999, 4161 posts, RR: 36
Posted (6 years 6 months 3 weeks 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 6351 times:

AWAS: 75 A320
CASG: 110 A320
China Airlines: 14 A350-900
Lybian Arab Airlines: 7 A320, 4 A330-200, 4 A350-800
TACA: 3 A319, 12 A320
Hamburg International: 2 A319
Matllin Patterson: 6 A330-200F
Atlantic Airways: 1 A319

Let´s say I´m a bit surprised, I had expected a could of other orders as well. Oh well - 238 firm orders is still quite a nice start for the year!

I had expected Niki, TAM, Vietnam Airlines (still open from Dec) and Grupo Marsans to have firmed by now.

For February I expect firming of the Hawaiian deal.

[Edited 2008-02-11 11:06:33]


Flown: A319/320/321,A332/3,A380,AT4,AT7,B732/3/4/5/7/8,B742/4,B762/763,B772,CR2,CR7,ER4,E70,E75,F50/70,M11,L15,S20
56 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 30928 posts, RR: 87
Reply 1, posted (6 years 6 months 3 weeks 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 6309 times:
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238 is nothing to sneeze at, to be sure.  champagne   dollarsign 

User currently offlineAstuteman From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2005, 10012 posts, RR: 96
Reply 2, posted (6 years 6 months 3 weeks 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 6308 times:
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Quoting Flying-Tiger (Thread starter):
238 firm orders is still quite a nice start for the year!

And with Boeing already having 65 firm orders, plus $8Bn to come at Singapore this month, anyone see any signs of the orderfest fading away just yet?  Wow!

Regards


User currently offlineZeke From Hong Kong, joined Dec 2006, 9041 posts, RR: 75
Reply 3, posted (6 years 6 months 3 weeks 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 6282 times:

How many of those were new for this year ?
How many were carried over from last year ?
How many of last years LOIs/MOUs have not been converted ?



We are addicted to our thoughts. We cannot change anything if we cannot change our thinking – Santosh Kalwar
User currently offlineAA1818 From Trinidad and Tobago, joined Feb 2006, 3433 posts, RR: 4
Reply 4, posted (6 years 6 months 3 weeks 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 6252 times:



Quoting Flying-Tiger (Thread starter):
Let´s say I´m a bit surprised, I had expected a could of other orders as well. Oh well - 238 firm orders is still quite a nice start for the year!

Wow 238...at that rate Airbus will have well over 2000 orders in 2008....let's hope the momentum is maintained both with firming up LOIs and new orders!

AA1818



“The moment you doubt whether you can fly, you cease for ever to be able to do it.” J.M. Barrie (Peter Pan)
User currently offlineWINGS From Portugal, joined May 2005, 2831 posts, RR: 68
Reply 5, posted (6 years 6 months 3 weeks 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 6210 times:



Quoting Flying-Tiger (Thread starter):
AWAS: 75 A320
CASG: 110 A320
China Airlines: 14 A350-900
Lybian Arab Airlines: 7 A320, 4 A330-200, 4 A350-800
TACA: 3 A319, 12 A320
Hamburg International: 2 A319
Matllin Patterson: 6 A330-200F
Atlantic Airways: 1 A319

Well that's a HUGE surprise. Wonder why CASG have not firmed up their order for 50 A330's along with their A320's. Apart from this a very strong start to the year.  Smile

PS: Aer Lingus are also taking their time to firm up their A330/A350 order.  Sad

Regards,
Wings



Aviation Is A Passion.
User currently offlineLH506 From Ecuador, joined May 2007, 464 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (6 years 6 months 3 weeks 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 6142 times:



Quoting Flying-Tiger (Thread starter):
I had expected Niki, TAM, Vietnam Airlines (still open from Dec) and Grupo Marsans to have firmed by now.

also Dubai should have been firmed up according to some statements from JL in January. Strange that Afriqiyah has not been firmed up, but Libyan has been...



NOT FLOWN: 707 717 736/9 764 77L 787 300B2 300B4 345 RJ70/146-100 F27 ATR72 CRJ1/4/10 E120/135/40/95 Q1/2/3 M87
User currently offlineMoo From Falkland Islands, joined May 2007, 3934 posts, RR: 4
Reply 7, posted (6 years 6 months 3 weeks 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 6084 times:

Full movements for January are -

Orders or conversions -

* Air Berlin - A321: 2
* Atlantic Airways - A319: 1
* AWAS - A320: 75
* bmi - british midland - A321: 5
* CASGC - A320: 104
* China Airlines - A350-900: 14
* CIT Leasing - A321: 3
* East Star Airlines Co. Ltd. - A320: 6
* Hamburg International - A319: 2
* Kingfisher Airlines - A321: 4
* Libyan Airlines - A320: 7
* Libyan Airlines - A330-200: 4
* Libyan Airlines - A350-800: 4
* MatlinPatterson - A330-200F: 6
* NIKI - A320: 9
* TACA International Airlines - A319: 3
* TACA International Airlines - A320: 12

Cancellations

Cancellations may either be contract cancellations or conversion to another type

* Air Berlin - A319: -2
* Bmed - A321: -5
* CIT Leasing - A319: -3
* Kingfisher Airlines - A320: -4
* Undisclosed - A320: -9

Hope that helps!


User currently offlineEaglewarrior From Barbados, joined Aug 2005, 32 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (6 years 6 months 3 weeks 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 5999 times:

Quoting WINGS (Reply 5):

PS: Aer Lingus are also taking their time to firm up their A330/A350 order.

GE is not on board the A350 program yet.

[Edited 2008-02-11 12:09:00]

User currently offlineCongaboy From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 352 posts, RR: 3
Reply 9, posted (6 years 6 months 3 weeks 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 5972 times:



Quoting Astuteman (Reply 2):
And with Boeing already having 65 firm orders, plus $8Bn to come at Singapore this month, anyone see any signs of the orderfest fading away just yet?

Yes, it's called a global recession...the U.S. is about to catch a cold. I realize the U.S. is not the end-all for aircraft orders, but alot of the global economy is connected here. However, I think we/I said similar things last year, so who knows? I personally dont think numbers like 2007 are sustainable, even if Airbus says otherwise.



"Joey, you like movies about gladiators?"
User currently offlineLumberton From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 4708 posts, RR: 20
Reply 10, posted (6 years 6 months 3 weeks 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 5948 times:

I thought that DAE would be showing up in January as firm. Didn't Leahy confirm that the deposits were banked in Jan 08?


"When all is said and done, more will be said than done".
User currently offlineMoo From Falkland Islands, joined May 2007, 3934 posts, RR: 4
Reply 11, posted (6 years 6 months 3 weeks 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 5938 times:

The following orders are still listed as 'missing in action' -

* Hawaiian Airlines
Firmed on 2008-02-04
o 6 A330-200
o 6 A350-800XWB
* Niki Luftfahrt GmbH
Firmed on 2008-01-31
o 1 A320
* TAM
Firmed on 2008-01-21
o 22 A350XWB
o 4 A330-200
o 20 A320
* Vietnam Airlines
Firmed on 2007-12-21
o 10 A350-900XWB
o 20 A321
* Afriqiyah Airways
Firmed on 2007-12-10
o 6 A350-800XWB
* AirAsia
Firmed on 2007-12-05
o 25 A320

The AirAsia one is 'interesting', as an 'Undisclosed' order was firmed in December 2007 for 25 A320 aircraft, *but* the AirAsia order was confirmed as firm via Airbus/EADS press release in December also - personally I see no particular reason the AirAsia order is the undisclosed one for that very reason, so I list it here as MIA.

Quoting Eaglewarrior (Reply 8):
GE is not on board the A350 program yet.

They already firmed, they just need to confirm the order with the shareholders before Airbus can list the order - engine manufacturer has no bearing on it.

Quoting Congaboy (Reply 9):
I personally dont think numbers like 2007 are sustainable, even if Airbus says otherwise.

Firstly, Airbus doesn't 'say otherwise' - they were very coy about predictions for 2008 in their 2007 figures press briefing.

Secondly, people said the same about 'unsustainable numbers' back in 2006 about the 2005 figures. Look what happened to their pooh-poohing.


User currently offlineMoo From Falkland Islands, joined May 2007, 3934 posts, RR: 4
Reply 12, posted (6 years 6 months 3 weeks 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 5940 times:



Quoting Lumberton (Reply 10):
I thought that DAE would be showing up in January as firm. Didn't Leahy confirm that the deposits were banked in Jan 08?

He said the order was signed in December 07, but their deposits didn't make it before the end of the year - I don't personally recall any mention that deposits had definitely made it in January, so they could still be outstanding.

Airbus does seem to have a fair few 'firm but unaccounted for' orders at the moment.


User currently offlineLH506 From Ecuador, joined May 2007, 464 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (6 years 6 months 3 weeks 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 5912 times:



Quoting Moo (Reply 11):
The following orders are still listed as 'missing in action' -

* Hawaiian Airlines
Firmed on 2008-02-04
o 6 A330-200
o 6 A350-800XWB
* Niki Luftfahrt GmbH
Firmed on 2008-01-31
o 1 A320
* TAM
Firmed on 2008-01-21
o 22 A350XWB
o 4 A330-200
o 20 A320
* Vietnam Airlines
Firmed on 2007-12-21
o 10 A350-900XWB
o 20 A321
* Afriqiyah Airways
Firmed on 2007-12-10
o 6 A350-800XWB
* AirAsia
Firmed on 2007-12-05
o 25 A320

Don't forget Finnairs order for 1 A333 last week, 3 A330 for the Royal Saudi Airforce (in early January) + as mentioned above Chinas 50 330, Dubai and Grupo Marsans are missing



NOT FLOWN: 707 717 736/9 764 77L 787 300B2 300B4 345 RJ70/146-100 F27 ATR72 CRJ1/4/10 E120/135/40/95 Q1/2/3 M87
User currently offlinePrebennorholm From Denmark, joined Mar 2000, 6435 posts, RR: 54
Reply 14, posted (6 years 6 months 3 weeks 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 5900 times:

With an order book already matching the current production capability for the next 8-9 years, and then 6 months of production ordered last month... - this is crazy.

I wonder when cancelations by the thousands will roll in.

What really surprises me is the Atlantic Airways order for one A319. Atlantic operates 7 BAe-146 / ARJ (plus a few choppers) - a plane well suited for the home base Vagar on the Faeroe Islands with its 4,100 feet runway. Will an A319 be able to operate from 4,100 feet with a meaningful payload to destinations a thousand miles away? Like London, CPH, ARN?

At present they do assist SAS with 2 or 3 wet leased planes replacing the expelled SAS Dash-8-Q400 (for instance they are a regular on the SAS CPH-LCY route). And they have just extended that wet lease contract until May 2009. But I doubt that they can order a new A319 today and count on putting it on meaningfull duty for SAS during their Q400 related stop-gap exercise.

And how can a "fleet" of one single 319 be a meaningful addition to seven 146/ARJ in a world where good, used planes of the latter type are quite easily obtainable.

They must be relying on cooperation with some other Airbus operator. Who can that be? If it had been SAS, then I would have expected the take-over of one B735 or 736 instead. Icelandair, Norwegian etc., it's all Boeing land. That single 319 is a real mystery.



Always keep your number of landings equal to your number of take-offs, Preben Norholm
User currently offlineMoo From Falkland Islands, joined May 2007, 3934 posts, RR: 4
Reply 15, posted (6 years 6 months 3 weeks 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 5901 times:



Quoting LH506 (Reply 13):
Don't forget Finnairs order for 1 A333 last week, 3 A330 for the Royal Saudi Airforce (in early January) + as mentioned above Chinas 50 330, Dubai and Grupo Marsans are missing

None of those have been confirmed as firm via Airbus or EADS press release, and those are the only ones I personally count as gospel when compiling these lists.

If someone is willing to give me a list of outstanding MoU/LoI orders, I will gladly add them to the database and maintain them


User currently offlineCongaboy From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 352 posts, RR: 3
Reply 16, posted (6 years 6 months 3 weeks 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 5885 times:



Quoting Moo (Reply 11):
Secondly, people said the same about 'unsustainable numbers' back in 2006 about the 2005 figures. Look what happened to their pooh-poohing.

Okay, fine...the average orders we've seen for the past three years, in my opinion, are not sustainable. Almost every model is sold out for years into the future, and the economy is not ideal. Combine that with "consolidation", where you try and leverage the stuff you already acquire, and you have probable criteria for a year with less orders. Where do you see this pace being fueled for this year?



"Joey, you like movies about gladiators?"
User currently offlineAstuteman From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2005, 10012 posts, RR: 96
Reply 17, posted (6 years 6 months 3 weeks 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 5872 times:
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Quoting Congaboy (Reply 9):
I personally dont think numbers like 2007 are sustainable, even if Airbus says otherwise.

Airbus quote 24 000 frames over the next 20 years - an average of 1 200 per year.
As 2007 saw nearly 2 800 orders, I would say Airbus agree with you...  Smile

Quoting Congaboy (Reply 9):
I realize the U.S. is not the end-all for aircraft orders, but alot of the global economy is connected here

Funnily enough, it may just pan out that, as the "rest-of-the-world" frenzy runs out of steam, the US giants finally come to the table. It's going to happen someday.
Airbus think the US will be the single biggest purchaser by region in the next 20 years.
I haven't seen any dissenting voices yet - (It's an area I've no knowledge of, so I have no pre-conceived notions).

Regards


User currently offlineMoo From Falkland Islands, joined May 2007, 3934 posts, RR: 4
Reply 18, posted (6 years 6 months 3 weeks 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 5846 times:



Quoting Congaboy (Reply 16):
Where do you see this pace being fueled for this year?

Same place I saw it being fuelled last year, the year before that and the year before that - nowhere. Or at least, I didn't personally see those years being fuelled by anything in particular, they were just heavy years.

What I am trying to say is - never commit yourself to such statements like you did, people have done similar in the past and ended up looking mildly foolish.

And airlines may push for, and get, bargains that are a result of a slowing economy.


User currently offlineThaiaggie From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 230 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (6 years 6 months 3 weeks 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 5813 times:

Did TG order like 20 a321? When did they put the order?


Barrow, Alaska in Feb. It was Cold!
User currently offlineChiad From Norway, joined May 2006, 1149 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (6 years 6 months 3 weeks 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 5757 times:



Quoting Flying-Tiger (Thread starter):
AWAS: 75 A320
CASG: 110 A320
China Airlines: 14 A350-900
Lybian Arab Airlines: 7 A320, 4 A330-200, 4 A350-800
TACA: 3 A319, 12 A320
Hamburg International: 2 A319
Matllin Patterson: 6 A330-200F
Atlantic Airways: 1 A319

Also worth noticing ... 35 widebodies with only 5 deliveries (37 deliveries total).

Quoting Moo (Reply 7):
Orders or conversions -

* Air Berlin - A321: 2
* Atlantic Airways - A319: 1
* AWAS - A320: 75
* bmi - british midland - A321: 5
* CASGC - A320: 104
* China Airlines - A350-900: 14
* CIT Leasing - A321: 3
* East Star Airlines Co. Ltd. - A320: 6
* Hamburg International - A319: 2
* Kingfisher Airlines - A321: 4
* Libyan Airlines - A320: 7
* Libyan Airlines - A330-200: 4
* Libyan Airlines - A350-800: 4
* MatlinPatterson - A330-200F: 6
* NIKI - A320: 9
* TACA International Airlines - A319: 3
* TACA International Airlines - A320: 12

Cancellations

Cancellations may either be contract cancellations or conversion to another type

* Air Berlin - A319: -2
* Bmed - A321: -5
* CIT Leasing - A319: -3
* Kingfisher Airlines - A320: -4
* Undisclosed - A320: -9

Quite alot of conversions from A319 to A321. Not bad!
Awesome January and probably the best ever.
I think the Singapore Airshow will be interesting.

Quoting AA1818 (Reply 4):
Wow 238...at that rate Airbus will have well over 2000 orders in 2008....let's hope the momentum is maintained both with firming up LOIs and new orders!

I think we'll see a another good year for the A350. Can we expect BA and QF order sooner than anticipated now that Boeing realised matching the performance of the A350 will require more than they have available right now?


User currently offlineAstuteman From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2005, 10012 posts, RR: 96
Reply 21, posted (6 years 6 months 3 weeks 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 5687 times:
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Quoting Flying-Tiger (Thread starter):
Oh well - 238 firm orders is still quite a nice start for the year!

Couple of things that don't seem to have got mentioned:-

As far as I can make out, this month's orders takes the A320 family over 6 000 orders (6 059)

Also as far as I can make out, the A320 family backlog as of Jan 31st was c. 2 700 frames (2 691)
(Nearly half the TOTAL orders since launch..  Wow! )
Has any other airliner ever come near this backlog number ?

Regards


User currently offlineFCKC From France, joined Nov 2004, 2348 posts, RR: 4
Reply 22, posted (6 years 6 months 3 weeks 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 5595 times:

http://www.aerospacemedia.com/site/a...p.php?Id=080211190421.vq6ffnj3.xml

It's not 238 , but 328 orders for January !


User currently offlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 30928 posts, RR: 87
Reply 23, posted (6 years 6 months 3 weeks 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 5577 times:
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Quoting FCKC (Reply 22):
It's not 238 , but 328 orders for January !

That is likely a transcription error.

Airbus' own statements, as reported in the press, claim 238 orders - 210 A320 family and 28 widebody. They also said they delivered 31 of the A320 family and five wide-bodied aircraft.

[Edited 2008-02-11 14:18:21]

User currently offlineScouseflyer From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2006, 3389 posts, RR: 9
Reply 24, posted (6 years 6 months 3 weeks 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 5541 times:



Quoting Flying-Tiger (Thread starter):
I had expected Niki, TAM, Vietnam Airlines (still open from Dec) and Grupo Marsans to have firmed by now.

It look slike the NIKI order was a UFO that has been identified, TAM and Vietnam are truly MIA but I'm begining to wonder about the GM order (with the finincial troubles at Aerolineas Argentina?).

As for the CASG A330 order that can join the A350 XWB order (20 copies) that ehey announced in 2006 and have never firmed?


25 Post contains images Chiad : That's odd. Can anyone confirm that the Januar order actually is 328? 90 planes more is ... well .. a good day for Airbus. WOW I wonder if 40 planes
26 Post contains images Oldeuropean : I hope this helps: Axel
27 Astuteman : Bearing in mind that it will take the best part of 3 years to hit 40 per month, and that the stated rate is a maximum that is typically only delivere
28 Scbriml : The sales for January were lower than some expected, especially given the large numbers of PRs through the month. Airbus still has some very large com
29 Moo : Has this one ever been confirmed as even existing?
30 Post contains links Scbriml : As I indicated, there's currently no LOI or MOU, so you are more than welcome to discount it. However, at the Annual Press Conference in January, in
31 Columba : This what I expected: AB has many aircrat in the 737-700/A319 and 737-800/A320 size so it is logical to convert some A319/A320s into A321s. Does Airb
32 Scbriml : Yes they do, but they never seem to have as many as Boeing does. At the end of January, they had the following "Undisclosed" orders outstanding: 1 x
33 Congaboy : People have said similar things (against conventional wisdom, such as you and Astuteman) and been correct as well. The last thing I am worried about
34 Kogge : Quoting scbriml (reply 32) re the Airbus UFOs: The correct current figure is 1 A319, 35 (thirtyfive) A320 and 6 (six) A321 as follows: A320 (1) 16/06/
35 Post contains images Baroque : Anyone got enough time to tell us what the moving average number of orders is for say 3 month periods over 2004 to now for A and B? Me, I have to go a
36 Moo : I haven't got that information, but Airbus took more net firm orders in January than they did in the entire year of 2002 (233)!
37 Post contains images Astuteman : That's me - neither conventional, nor wise... It's going to be fascinating to see what happens in the US over the next few years Have you done it yet
38 Columba : How do you get the assumption that this could AB ? AB has plenty of Airbus A320 and 737 to be delivered. I mean I can understand the rumor for 10 Q40
39 Congaboy : Indeed, sir. I sell to this very market, and be damned if I can predict things accurately, hence my comments. I guess I can see Airbus getting orders
40 Kogge : This is a pure guess... If it is Air Asia, then I dont understand why it is booked as UFO, as Airbus had published a press release about the Air Asia
41 Post contains links and images Astuteman : In the forecasts contained in Airbus's GMF, they don't say WHO is going to win the orders, they only forecast that the orders will be placed. I would
42 Plairbus : Hi to everybody, i have some questions... 1.- Is it possible Grupo Marsans is canceling there huge Airbus order? 2.- LH, BA. AF-KLM, IB are this ones
43 Moo : They have yet to place an order - they currently only have a MoU/LoI.
44 Scbriml : There's currently no firm order to cancel. Never a simple answer, but IMHO: LH - said to like the 787, but think it's a bit small. The large A350 may
45 Stitch : LH - I think it is a given. Their current "mainline" fleet is all-Airbus sans the 747-400 and I expect their future "mainline" fleet to be all-Airbus
46 Plairbus : you said:some bad blood between them and Boeing, but this won't stop Boeing offering the 787. Could go either way, but again IB may find the larger A3
47 Post contains links Scbriml : When IB was deciding between the A346 and 77W for fleet expansion, they really played hard-ball with both manufacturers and, in the opinion of some,
48 Stitch : It has been said that IB had no interest in operating the 777 and only talked with Boeing about it to secure a pricing deal they then took to Airbus
49 SKAirbus : Have British Airways firmed their A380 order yet??
50 Moo : Yes, it was firmed in December 2007.
51 Post contains images Hamlet69 : It went beyond that, actually. Boeing was a little hesitant to court IB with the 777-300ER, with IB already being a large A340-300 operator. However,
52 Post contains links Ivo : Hi MOO, Check this: Saudi Airforce A330 http://www.eads.com/1024/en/pressdb/...20080103_mtad_saudi_moda_mrtt.html TAM confirmation: http://www.eads.co
53 Moo : " target=_blank>http://www.eads.com/1024/en/pressdb/....html We do not know how Airbus and EADS will book this - it may not be booked as an Airbus co
54 Post contains links Ivo : Maybe this helps: http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/...onfirm-a330-mrtt-tanker-buy-04532/ Ivo
55 Moo : Nope.
56 Scbriml : " target=_blank>http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/...4532/ "will acquire" has acquired.
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